This build went very smooth up until I decided to box it before I rocked it. ::) The bypass signal is crystal clear, but when you kick it on it goes silent. I've quadruple checked that every wire is going where it needs to. The optional fx loop is connected the way its supposed to with the switch jacks. The LED lights up, but not the LFO LED. I would think that at least SOME sound would come through.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2406/32449169300_cfc23b3f22_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2352/32449169060_97e1de63ae_b.jpg)
The close pic of the capacitors is showing a little hack I made to pull them back to make room for the fx loop jacks. I de-soldered them from the board, and re-soldered longer legs to those 3. The diode is not touching the legs and the LFO LED its not either. I don't know if that would matter.
Here are the voltages. The numbers in bold are the ones that appear massively different from the documentation.
Voltage at power jack: 9.31
IC1 4558
1. 4.66
2. 4.66
3. 2.32
4. 0
5. 4.53
6. 4.53
7. 4.39
8. 9.63
IC 2 MN3007
1. 9.03
2. 4.48
3. 0
4. 0
5. 0
6. 4.48
7. 2.56
8. 2.57
IC CD409
1. 9.02
2. 4.48
3. 4.47
4. 4.47
5. 4.49
6. 4.46
7. 4.49
8. 0
9. 4.47
10. 4.48
11. 4.47
12. 4.48
13. 0
14. 4.47
15. 4.48
16. 0
IC4 CD4013
1. 4.48
2. 4.48
3. 7.33
4. 0
5. 4.49
6. 0
7. 0
8. 0
9. 0
10. 0
11. 0
12. 9.03
13. 0
14. 9.02
IC LM324
1. .5~7.5
2. 4.02
3. 2~5
4. 9.01
5. 0
6. 0
7. 7.74
8. 1.03
9. 1.03
10. 0
11. 4.01
12. ~
13. 4.09
14. 3.5~4.5
IC6 LM311
1. 0
2. 4.96
3. 3.42
4. 0
5. 9.03
6. 9.03
7. 7.32
8. 9.03
IC7 4558
1. 4.51
2. 4.51
3. 4.51
4. 0
5. 4.01
6. 4.52
7. 4.52
8. 9.01
Thanks in advance! This is so frustrating!
I am having similar problems with mine but I didn't box it up. I will be watching this in hopes I can get mine running also.
Audio probe is always my go to -debugging method in cases like this. :)
So you don't get any signal no matter how you set the trimmers? If so, yeah it's audio probe time
Quote from: Matt on February 11, 2017, 05:21:54 PM
So you don't get any signal no matter how you set the trimmers? If so, yeah it's audio probe time
Yeah, nothing at all. I made an audio probe this afternoon (this one) (http://"http://www.diystompboxes.com/pedals/debug.html") and I got a little buzz on basically everything that I touched, except for the "R" lead and the output pad on the footswitch. If I'm reading the documentation correctly, the very next component in the audio path (from the output) is C15...? That made a sound too, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong here.
You are getting audio at c15? Or just buzzing
Why does it look like D4's cathode (-) is shorted to C18's positive?
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on February 11, 2017, 08:52:00 PM
Why does it look like D4's cathode (-) is shorted to C18's positive?
Its not touching, kinda looks like it in the photos, but no.
Quote from: Matt on February 11, 2017, 07:44:33 PM
You are getting audio at c15? Or just buzzing
I plugged the audio probe straight into an amp and poked the points on the board. There's no audio when the pedal is powered up and switched on, so I'm getting only the buzzing from the amp or no buzzing when touching the output at the switch and "R" pad.
Is it correct to assume because I am hearing the amp buzzing at C15 that the audio signal is at least passing all the way through to that component? I don't know how to read the audio path on the drawing.
are you hearing the guitar at all when probing it just buzzing.
A couple things I'd check is that your output jack isn't grounding out and that your foot switch isn't bad
Quote from: Matt on February 12, 2017, 10:18:20 AM
are you hearing the guitar at all when probing it just buzzing.
A couple things I'd check is that your output jack isn't grounding out and that your foot switch isn't bad
Actually... I checked again and turned up the amp volume considerably and I CAN faintly hear guitar signal. When I hold my thumb on the output tip so its buzzing and touch the pad on C15, it gets much louder and I can hear the flange effect working. But its still not a full on guitar signal.
So, should I gather from this that its some kind of ground issue?
One thing I do is hook my iPad or phone up to the effect when I'm using my probe. Or you could download a signal generator. Then you will have continuos sound going through and you don't have to keep hitting a guitar string.
Are you getting sound all the way up to C15?
You know what... I don't think I'm doing the audio probe thing correctly. There must be more to it that I'm not getting yet.
Ok. Let's see if you are hooking it up correctly. Your signal is going to the in jack of the effect (guitar, signal generator, etc...). The probe phone jack is hooked into your amp and grounded to something. There is nothing hooked up to the out jack of the effect. The end of your probe acts as your out jack now, so to say. Not trying to insult your intelligence here so plse dont think that.
If you want, take the cover off of one of your pedals that's works, hook it up as above, get a signal going through and probe around the board. That will give you an idea of what you should be hearing.
That's why I asked if you were getting sound up to C15. If you have no sound at R1 you will have no sound at C15. So let's determine if you're getting signal to the board when you turn it on. Thats the beauty of the probe. If you can follow the signal path off the schematic you can quickly figure out where it stops and that normally will be where your problem is.
You have no bias voltage on pin 3 of the BBD so there's a problem around the R9/10 area.
Brian, thanks for the info. I was totally doing it wrong. I completely misunderstood how it works.
I'm going to go over my solder joints again and melt down the ones that look a little off and see if that does anything first. I think Ive been using solder that has a lower melting point and doesn't always bond when I think it is.
If Scruffie is saying your problem is around R9/10 that's where I would go first. He's a guru with this stuff.
Don't fret over hooking it up wrong. Even after I figured out how to use one I did the same thing a couple of times. I have a Harbinger I built up a year ago, it was a no go and I set it in the does not work box until the other day. Couldn't get the LFO led to go. To make this short I had a transistor turned backwards. This was after I changed a cap, resistor and trannie around led. These things happen to everyone. And to be honest most of the problems I've encountered have been easy fixes and you just go :o what a DA. LOL.
Quote from: BrianS on February 14, 2017, 04:05:09 AM
Ok. Let's see if you are hooking it up correctly. Your signal is going to the in jack of the effect (guitar, signal generator, etc...). The probe phone jack is hooked into your amp and grounded to something. There is nothing hooked up to the out jack of the effect. The end of your probe acts as your out jack now, so to say. Not trying to insult your intelligence here so plse dont think that.
If you want, take the cover off of one of your pedals that's works, hook it up as above, get a signal going through and probe around the board. That will give you an idea of what you should be hearing.
That's why I asked if you were getting sound up to C15. If you have no sound at R1 you will have no sound at C15. So let's determine if you're getting signal to the board when you turn it on. Thats the beauty of the probe. If you can follow the signal path off the schematic you can quickly figure out where it stops and that normally will be where your problem is.
So i hooked it up like this and probed nearly the entire board. The only thing I got was humming and louder humming when I touched solder joints. Another wierd thing that was happening was that I had it originally hooked through the effects loop on my amp. I noticed when I had the pedal clicked off, it made a faint flanging signal like if it was turned on. My LEDs are lighting up so there is no mistake whether it is off or on.
At this point I'm tempted to disconnect the optional FX out-inputs and hook it up the regular way to see if that makes any difference.
Also, I have to point out that T1 is not a Bourns 3362P timmer like the others. It is a 10k though. Would that matter at all?
The trimmer isn't going to make a difference as long as the legs (1,2,3) are soldered to the right pads.
You need to pull everything out and post a picture of the bottom of the board. You may have a solder bridge that someone can see. I wired mine up stock and it's working.
So with your probe and the effect turned on did you have sound at the in jack (not hum), then the 3pdt, then at in In of the board or not? Normally, if you have bypass sound and no sound when turned on, the first thing I always check for is a ground problem. And it could certainly be in your wiring of the other jacks.
Don't give up. I really hate troubleshooting these things because I'm not IMO good at it. That's why I have builds that sit in a box over a year old and I just don't want to bother with them. This is all a good learning experience and sooner or later you will get the pedal going.
Thanks Brian. The help is much appreciated. For the time being, here is the bottom of the board.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2407/32101588724_3e9ffc4cc0_b.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3864/32820866081_fb063c1591_b.jpg)
I don't see any solder bridges but on some pads the solder looks a little thin. I would go back and reflow all your joints. Scruffie said your voltages indicated something around R9/10. Your resistors are right so it's not the wrong value.
When you have the pedal turned on are you getting sound at the in jack, the 3pdt and board in with your probe? I'm not trying to be a butthead by continuing to ask this question.
I myself would at this point take anything extra off of the board and see if you can get it to go with stock wiring. It just takes one more piece out of the equation.
Alright, I got the audio probe working like it should. Makes sense now. I disconnected the fx loop and wired it the normal way. Getting clean bypass. Power LED comes on and rate LFO flashing faster and slower with the rate pot.
When switched on, I get audio at R1-6, then R8-10, C1-4, IC pin 1,2 & 7 and bias pins 2 and 3. Other than that, R26 makes a ticking noise and everything else is just crackling and popping. R10 is a lot more faint of a signal but it's there.
You need to find out why there is no voltage on pin 3 of the 3007 in your readings.
Look at the schematic, voltage connects to R10, is divided by the bias pot and sent through R9 to pin 3, unless you have the bias pot set completely to the ground side you should have voltage on pin 3, without it the BBD can't work.
I don't know if you bought your 3007 through a reputable supplier, but, if you got it off ebay, I would consider removing it from the socket (using ESD precautions) and probing the voltage at pin 3 then to see if the chip its self is shorting it to ground.
Glad you got the probe figured out.
You've got Scruffies interest in this now and he's 9000 times smarter than I am about this stuff. I will continue to follow because I learn from this also.
Quote from: Scruffie on February 19, 2017, 02:59:49 PM
I don't know if you bought your 3007 through a reputable supplier, but, if you got it off ebay, I would consider removing it from the socket (using ESD precautions) and probing the voltage at pin 3 then to see if the chip its self is shorting it to ground.
I bought the MN3007 from Smallbear last May. Do you mean probing socket 3 with an audio probe or volt meter?
Okay, hopefully it's good then but still, you need to see voltage on pin 3 so yes, probe the pin with your volt meter again with chip in and out and try to work out why voltage is not getting from R10 to pin 3 of the 3007.
I took readings with and without the 3007 in. Very different readings this time:
Without:
4.5
.19
1.69
Starts at about 4, then decreases gradually til it hits about .1
4.23
4.23
.21
4.39
With:
4.36
.17
1.92
Starts at about 3, then decreases gradually til it hits about .1
1.12
1.24
4.53
Then, I tried it again and got even different readings:
9.02
4.47
2.16
Starts at about 3, then decreases gradually til it hits about .1
3
3
4.45
.03
Right, I don't know what's going on there but the last set of readings you gave are correct but you've just taken the pin numbers in the wrong order.
Did you follow Brian's advice to reflow your joints? I agree with him that they look like they could do with it and that might explain your shifting readings.
I reflowed all the joints and got the exact same result.
At what point do I start replacing parts to troubleshoot? If I'm losing audio at R10, do I consider replacing that? Or is it highly unlikely that a resistor is bad?
Thanks a ton for all your help, btw
Sorry, I should have said before, your bias voltage is too low, have you tried fiddling with the trimmer? And if yes, what's the highest voltage you get on pin 3 of the 3007.
Don't give up. I know it's frustrating. I've wanted to sit a couple of my builds out on the interstate to see how much stress the box would take.
Quote from: Scruffie on February 26, 2017, 01:53:20 PM
Sorry, I should have said before, your bias voltage is too low, have you tried fiddling with the trimmer? And if yes, what's the highest voltage you get on pin 3 of the 3007.
Alright, my volt meter was giving me a little trouble but I fixed it and I'm getting consistent readings.
When I turn the bias all the way down on pin 3 I get 0, then about halfway reads 2.48, all the way up reads 4.55.
Quote from: BrianS on February 26, 2017, 03:36:01 PM
Don't give up. I know it's frustrating. I've wanted to sit a couple of my builds out on the interstate to see how much stress the box would take.
Man. Tell me about it. This is the first of 3 in a row I haven't been able to get to work. Its so maddening I almost want to toss all my unfinishing projects and parts up for sale and wash my hands of this hobby. :(
Try jumpering R10 (just connect a piece of wire directly across it on the back of the board to short it out) and then adjust your bias again and see if you can get output from the BBD (pins 7 & 8).
Quote from: Scruffie on February 28, 2017, 05:57:53 AM
Try jumpering R10 (just connect a piece of wire directly across it on the back of the board to short it out) and then adjust your bias again and see if you can get output from the BBD (pins 7 & 8).
Do you mean hold a wire on the back connecting the two r10 solder joints together?
It may be hard for you to do that and do the adjusting and checking. If the leads on the resistors are long enough, and you have a wire with the 2 alligator clips on it, that would work. Otherwise, I believe you're going to have to solder it. You don't have to use a lot to jump it.
Yeah just tack solder a wire connecting those two pads.
Here's what I get when I connect the two r10 pads with wire:
1. 9.26
2. 4.59
3. 3.93
4. Varies
5. 0
6. 4.58
7. 4.86
8. 3.90
They seems pretty close. And this is with the trimmer about in the middle. Still, silence when switched on.
What's the maximum voltage you can get on Pin 3 now?
I'm getting 8.33 on pin 3 with the trimmer all the way up.
Would it help at all to get readings of the transistors?
Sorry, missed your last post.
Sure, can't hurt.
By the way... you did take your original voltage readings in filter matrix mode, right?
Stupid question, but I see now you don't have any voltage on pin 10 of the 324 which isn't right, dig there and find out what's happening.
I just did another round of readings. I'm getting good results for the 324, and now, there is only one oddball number. (And by the way, the jumper is still on the back of the pcb connecting the r10 pads together):
IC1 4558
pin 3 - 2.38
Here are the transistors:
Q1 2N3904 flat side facing me:
left - 5.08
middle - 5.52
right - 9.26
Q2 2N5087 flat side facing me:
left - 9.02
middle - 8.00
right - 2.97
Oh, I also tested the continuity of the switch pads to see if maybe the switch might be bad. I'm finding that switched off or on the right side pads, top or bottom test positive for continuity with the middle pad. Is that normal?
That reading for IC1 is fine, your meters impedance is just interacting with the input bias resistor.
It's late here and i'd need to read what you said about the switch again with a fresh head but it doesn't sound right to me right now... maybe someone else can give their opinion in the mean time.
Hi guys,
Sorry for not bringing anything useful to this conversation this tome, but I'm having problems with Current Lover as well. Actualy with 3 of them. All boards do works, before calibration I do get a clean signal but calibration itself isn't going properly. I do 't have that crazy jet flanging sound at all, more like a super fast tremolo/delay like spund on Rate knob fully clockwise.
If somebody would be able to take a look on my topic as well I would highly appreciate.
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=25118.msg244540#msg244540
I just realized that there was no signal when the power wasn't connected to the board. Aren't true bypass pedals supposed to pass a signal even if there is no power? Is this a true bypass pedal? If so, this might narrow my problem down to the switch.
Before I go and disconnect all these wires, does this sound right?
Yes, true bypass pedals should give bypass with or without power.
Well, I swapped out the switch with a new one and the same thing is happening. Clicked off, it passes the bypass signal even without power. When clicked on, no signal with or without power.