Just realizing today that:
I graduated college 20 years ago (97).
I graduated HS almost 30 years ago (90).
You guys in your 20's live it up as much as you can. Believe me it goes faster than you can possibly imagine. Before you know it you'll be looking forward to a 10 pm bedtime and glad you get to wake up early and start your day.
- changed thread title because it's funnier
Not too far behind you, buddy.
I graduated HS in 1995 and college in 2000. Just turned 41. :o
Its been 13 years since HS for me, and I'm still in fecking grad school! :o
Graduated 75 and 79 respectively. Turn 60 this year. You guys are still puppies.
Quote from: gordo on December 06, 2017, 06:14:10 PM
Graduated 75 and 79 respectively. Turn 60 this year. You guys are still puppies.
My thoughts exactly. Graduated HS 84. Uni was a long process ... 91 and 95.
Graduated 80 and 87. Turned 55, this year. Don't feel that old, even though I have two married daughters. It goes fast.
Quote from: gordo on December 06, 2017, 06:14:10 PM
Graduated 75 and 79 respectively. Turn 60 this year. You guys are still puppies.
Oh yes,puppies. 1974. When things start going downhill at 8 pm you know your old. And Bean, just a heads up. After 45 I believe time movement goes up exponentially so don't think it slows down. And everything else moves faster also, cars, grandkids, etc.... The only thing that slows down is your physical movement. Lol. But it's a great ride most of the time.
Graduated HS in '96 and wrapped up my 20-year AS 2-year degree in 2016! Was good to get that milestone, looking forward to getting my BS by 2036! Time passes by, kids grow, friends and family pass away. All I can say is since my really bad time I had a few years back, I try and take some time everyday to appreciate that I am here, so blessed to have my family and that the kids are healthy and strong, so blessed to have been happily married 10 years now, so blessed to be doing work I believe in and really love doing. It makes the inexorable march of time so much more acceptable to stop and be grateful on a daily basis, even if it is in some very small way.
Graduated HS in 2002. Never did the collage thing.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wow, I didn't realize there were so many "elder" guys on here. That's great. Quite surprised at the ages coming up because to be honest I thought some of you were younger. Now I don't feel like Im this ancient Redwood like I do playing on the Worship team at church who I have 25 - 30 years on the oldest one. But as they say your only as old as you feel but some days..............🤔🙃😖🤣
Quote from: tcpoint on December 06, 2017, 06:38:12 PM
Don't feel that old
This is what's so weird to me. Just turned 41 (last week), but I still feel like I'm maybe 25. It's very strange getting older once you pass a certain point/age (which is a totally personal milestone).
Quote from: culturejam on December 06, 2017, 09:23:11 PM
Quote from: tcpoint on December 06, 2017, 06:38:12 PM
Don't feel that old
This is what's so weird to me. Just turned 41 (last week), but I still feel like I'm maybe 25. It's very strange getting older once you pass a certain point/age (which is a totally personal milestone).
Turned 41 last month. I'm not sure there's such a thing as feeling 41. Sometimes I feel 21 and sometimes I feel 81 and I think it just averages out.
Quote from: jubal81 on December 06, 2017, 09:31:16 PM
Quote from: culturejam on December 06, 2017, 09:23:11 PM
Quote from: tcpoint on December 06, 2017, 06:38:12 PM
Don't feel that old
This is what's so weird to me. Just turned 41 (last week), but I still feel like I'm maybe 25. It's very strange getting older once you pass a certain point/age (which is a totally personal milestone).
Turned 41 last month. I'm not sure there's such a thing as feeling 41. Sometimes I feel 21 and sometimes I feel 81 and I think it just averages out.
Ha, amen to that man!
Hah, I usually try to get to bed by 9pm. Working dayshift does horrible things to your bodyclock -- I start work at about 5:45am, including pre-op setup, with the current half-hour overtime (before the actual shift).
I graduated HS in 1995 like CJ. Got by B.S. in Geology in 2009. Student loans should be paid off by 2099. ;D. The 40s are definitely strange. One minute I feel the same as I did in my twenties; the next minute a disc slips out of alignment and I feel like a grandpa.
Quote from: somnif on December 06, 2017, 06:04:59 PM
Its been 13 years since HS for me, and I'm still in fecking grad school! :o
Almost 15 for me since HS graduation (2003).
Still in grad school as well. Though only part time. Good luck finding the end of that road.
I just turned 46. Yeah, that happened. I feel old at 10pm and when I have to climb the stairs to go to bed. My wife is 49 though, so that helps me feel young. 🤣
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: cajone5 on December 07, 2017, 05:12:05 AM
Quote from: somnif on December 06, 2017, 06:04:59 PM
Its been 13 years since HS for me, and I'm still in fecking grad school! :o
Almost 15 for me since HS graduation (2003).
Still in grad school as well. Though only part time. Good luck finding the end of that road.
Yay! people my age-ish!
It's not so much the "its been XX years since I graduated high school/college" that gets me depressed, its the "wow, I have just as long as I've been alive left to work till I can retire" that gets me down...
Quote from: dan.schumaker on December 07, 2017, 05:58:54 AM
It's not so much the "its been XX years since I graduated high school/college" that gets me depressed, its the "wow, I have just as long as I've been alive left to work till I can retire" that gets me down...
Found the optimist. ;D
graduated in 96, got an as in 98 ... chased money around doing utility line clearance for over a decade before I decided that hard labor isn't an old man's game. I was right ... not even 40 yet and a cold front can cripple me. should have a bs finished in 2018 though ... probably follow up with a masters
My wife and I joke often that it's hard to picture ourselves as anything but in our 20s still, even though we're 41 and 44 respectively. At this point I've decided it's a function of the accelerated time sense that goes with age. "Wait...it's 2017? How did my kids got to be 13 and 11 that fast?" Anyway, nice to hear that so many of you are at a similar place in terms of age and experience. It's also cool that there are both younger and older folks here as well!
Quote from: jimilee on December 07, 2017, 05:22:16 AM
I just turned 46. Yeah, that happened. I feel old at 10pm and when I have to climb the stairs to go to bed. My wife is 49 though, so that helps me feel young.
I imagine it's not safe to tell HER that, though! ;)
The older I get, the more the saying proves true, "It's not the years...it's the mileage".
Quote from: alanp on December 07, 2017, 07:36:17 AM
Quote from: jimilee on December 07, 2017, 05:22:16 AM
I just turned 46. Yeah, that happened. I feel old at 10pm and when I have to climb the stairs to go to bed. My wife is 49 though, so that helps me feel young.
I imagine it's not safe to tell HER that, though! ;)
Depends on the day / hour / minute
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: culturejam on December 06, 2017, 09:23:11 PM
Quote from: tcpoint on December 06, 2017, 06:38:12 PM
Don't feel that old
This is what's so weird to me. Just turned 41 (last week), but I still feel like I'm maybe 25. It's very strange getting older once you pass a certain point/age (which is a totally personal milestone).
Likewise (I'm 45, though I had to check that recently as I'd forgotten...). I've only recently started to feel older as there are things that are starting to wear out, ache or deteriorate (knees, back, sight, hearing, the usual), which is damned annoying. Mentally I never left my 20's and never plan to.
Properly embracing my mid-life crisis though with the old computers and consoles.
Y'all are making me feel young and grateful to have grown up when internet forums were widely available for super niche hobbies.
Graduated HS in '97, and college in 2002. My student loans should be paid off in (IIRC) 14 more years (don't major in journalism).
Quote from: drezdn on December 07, 2017, 09:09:14 AM
(don't major in journalism).
QFT
Career change is now fait accompli and I'm running out of time to figure that one out.
Also dont go for a degree in English Literature "just because". Finished secondary school - high school seems to be universal over here now too of late ??? - in 04, college 06 and Uni 09.
Quote from: jubal81 on December 07, 2017, 09:38:11 AM
Quote from: drezdn on December 07, 2017, 09:09:14 AM
(don't major in journalism).
QFT
Career change is now fait accompli and I'm running out of time to figure that one out.
I've managed to do fairly well with an English degree (double minored in linguistics and technical writing), but I would not recommend the same path for someone entering college right now. In fact, unless you want to go for engineering, medicine, pharma chemistry, or some kind of machine-learning/AI degree, most people would probably be better off going into a trade (plumbing, electrician, carpentry, locksmithing, etc). Pursuing that with full licensure/credentials pays very well and will leave you with little-to-zero debt.
I kind of which I had pursued being an electrician, actually. I think I would be far better off financially and have greater mobility.
The title change cracks me up.
I agree with Juan, I'm stuck at about 20...till I walk past a window or mirror and think "who's the old dude?". No complaints I've had a really good run and expect to keep doing so.
Quote from: culturejam on December 07, 2017, 09:49:33 AM
I've managed to do fairly well with an English degree (double minored in linguistics and technical writing), but I would not recommend the same path for someone entering college right now. In fact, unless you want to go for engineering, medicine, pharma chemistry, or some kind of machine-learning/AI degree, most people would probably be better off going into a trade (plumbing, electrician, carpentry, locksmithing, etc). Pursuing that with full licensure/credentials pays very well and will leave you with little-to-zero debt.
I kind of which I had pursued being an electrician, actually. I think I would be far better off financially and have greater mobility.
Maybe it's a class of '95 thing, but this is exactly how I feel too. I wrote a blog post years ago called "Why My Son (Probably) Won't Go to College" saying basically this same thing. Led to some interesting talks with my parents. ;)
College debt is killing us. I'm fortunate enough to have bought a house that appreciated enough to pay off my undergrad and seminary loans, but much like CJ, I don't recommend trying to follow my path.
Quote from: culturejam on December 07, 2017, 09:49:33 AM
...I would not recommend the same path for someone entering college right now. In fact, unless you want to go for engineering, medicine, pharma chemistry, or some kind of machine-learning/AI degree, most people would probably be better off going into a trade (plumbing, electrician, carpentry, locksmithing, etc). Pursuing that with full licensure/credentials pays very well and will leave you with little-to-zero debt.
I kind of which I had pursued being an electrician, actually. I think I would be far better off financially and have greater mobility.
I've been saying this same thing since I started college. I think we overlook trade schools far too often which is a darn shame. But I think it's due to the way we as a culture tend to look down upon the blue-collar worker in favor of the white-collar business man due to media portrayal.
...I'll just step down here now *gets off soap box*. Feel free to let me know if I'm getting out of line. My millennial self apologizes.
Its a rational soapbox to be on! Im not sure what hes seen as Stateside but Mike Rowe in my limited exposure champions trades. My brother did metal fabrication and Id be much happier working with my hands rather than in CRM like Ive accidentally ended up.
Quote from: culturejam on December 07, 2017, 09:49:33 AM
I've managed to do fairly well with an English degree (double minored in linguistics and technical writing), but I would not recommend the same path for someone entering college right now. In fact, unless you want to go for engineering, medicine, pharma chemistry, or some kind of machine-learning/AI degree, most people would probably be better off going into a trade (plumbing, electrician, carpentry, locksmithing, etc). Pursuing that with full licensure/credentials pays very well and will leave you with little-to-zero debt.
I kind of which I had pursued being an electrician, actually. I think I would be far better off financially and have greater mobility.
That's a tough one. On one hand trades seem to be retaking the clearer path to a middle class lifestyle whereas a college degree seems to promise ever-shrinking prospects and soul crushing debt for at least a decade or more. However, we have too many dumbasses in this country already. Not that trades-people are dumbasses (they aren't), but I don't think anyone can look at America and say "now there's an education system that's firing on all cylinders". FFS, they are still trying to teach Intelligent Design in public schools up in here. College is a singular stop-gap from us descending further into Idiocracy.
Quote from: madbean on December 07, 2017, 01:19:02 PM
College is a singular stop-gap from us descending further into Idiocracy.
I don't think nobody should go to college, but I think maybe we have too many going as it is now and not enough people entering trades.
I think people shouldn't expect to succeed just because they "go to college". I've spent over a decade in college at this point in my life and I am constantly amazed at the amount of people that just show up and expect life to succeed without putting in a lot of effort. This is why degrees are a dime a dozen now and why it's so hard to differentiate yourself from the heap of people who just went for a piece of paper. College is not for everyone. Fortunately we're emerging from the trend that "everyone should go". The people that want a career that needs a degree should go. Those curious to learn should go to. But no one who goes to college should expect to succeed in life just because they were able to eek by under the radar because the reality is, if that's you, there's a dozen other guys and gals just like you waiting to do your job for less money. It sucks, but it's how I've seen it play out for many.
/digression
2 of my sons have done extremely well without college degrees. One found his niche in new home sales and is now the Director of Sales for a home builder in San Antonio. The other one was a waiter at a Sushi restaurant and a lady that worked at Rackspace (large computer hosting company in San Antonio) was impressed with him and helped him get a job. He's in Austin now working for another computer hosting firm and making around 90k a year. Plse don't take this as me bragging about my kids but I am very proud of what they've accomplished by having an excellent work ethic and some things roll their way. I am still in their rear about getting a degree all the time but if you're willing to out work the other guy you can be very successful without one. I have a BA in Criminal Justice and by the time I retired from the Air Force it did me no good because I was to old to be a cop, a federal agent, etc.... but I didn't want to do that anyway. You almost have to have a tech degree to land something good out of college. And the comments about trade schools is a thumbs up 👍. There's some really good money to be made in that area if you want to work in those fields.
What I learned in undergrad engineering school: there is (probably) a solution to every problem. Also, how much alcohol I could consume before it would create immediate trouble.
(Be adventurous.)
What I learned in graduate engineering school: No matter how smart I think I am in any particular subject, there will always be someone who is 100 times smarter in the same subject. Also, undergraduate students will somehow think you have super powers if you can tell them within 5 seconds of looking at their breadboarded circuit that their power supply polarity is reversed.
(Be humble.)
What I learned in law school: Every yes/no question can legitimately be answered, "It depends." Also, I don't ever want to actually work as a lawyer.
(Be open-minded.)
Quote from: EBK on December 07, 2017, 03:48:02 PM
What I learned in undergrad engineering school: there is (probably) a solution to every problem. Also, how much alcohol I could consume before it would create immediate trouble.
(Be adventurous.)
What I learned in college: you can calculate the rate a canonical hat fills up with vomit using Calculus (an actual problem from a T.A.). I think that was most of it.
Quote from: madbean on December 07, 2017, 03:52:15 PM
Quote from: EBK on December 07, 2017, 03:48:02 PM
What I learned in undergrad engineering school: there is (probably) a solution to every problem. Also, how much alcohol I could consume before it would create immediate trouble.
(Be adventurous.)
What I learned in college: you can calculate the rate a canonical hat fills up with vomit using Calculus (an actual problem from a T.A.). I think that was most of it.
What I learned in college: everybody has the same idea. It's when you're in a class with only two other people, then you know you're onto something.
Actually, I just remembered part of that vomit scenario (which revolved around the TA himself) was being drugged at a party which led to the vomiting and hence the math problem. Strange guy but definitely one of the most memorable instructors I had.
I'm maybe an outlier. I got a B.S. in math 6-7 years ago and an A.S. Before that. However I don't have a high school degree. (Ironic considering my chosen vocation).
I will say that ~20 years ago when I dropped out, having a trade didn't seem like a great bet.
I really advocate for community college. It is much more affordable. You can learn a ton and get two years through a degree with minimal debt.
I graduated from college in 1989. I started learning to play guitar in 1986 - and I'm still no good at it! But a lot of that is because of me not working at it. Same thing applies to education.
I have a little different view on college. I work at a university in scientific research, so maybe I'm biased. But I think it can be very useful to get a general education - ideally it teaches you some important about our culture and about how to learn. Of course, college doesn't succeed in doing that for everyone. You definitely get more out if you put in more work.
Generally, studies show that people with college degrees have greater earning potential and flexibility. But I can't recommend taking on crippling debt to go to college. Tuition has gotten a lot more expensive since I went for a variety of reasons, including declining state support. To the extent that it's possible to go while only spending a moderate amount of money, either through college financial aid or community college / state schools, I think it's still a good investment in the long term.
I have at least two college friends who work as construction contractors (running their own businesses), and seem quite happy and successful. On the other hand, if you don't get a degree eventually, there are a lot of career paths that are hard to take. I grew up in a place with declining heavy industry (Pittsburgh), and one thing that concerns me about industry and trades is the possibility that the economy or technology can shift against you and leave you stranded with few options for repositioning yourself. This is perhaps less true if you are, say, an electrician or contractor and run your own business, but that brings its own stresses.
I'm turning 30 in exactly 1 month. Does that count as old? ::) definetely feels a bit like it. makes you reflect a bit.
I finished HS 11 years ago and my PhD last year. Still very content with my choice to study chemistry. Although it sure is easier to find a job as a chemist than it would be with a degree in law (it's one of the most overrun studies around here), it sure wasn't as easy as everyone told you in the beginning. If I wouldn't have gone for a uni, I'd love to do carpentry. Wood is just so nice to work with
Quote from: m-Kresol on December 08, 2017, 03:16:15 AM
I'm turning 30 in exactly 1 month. Does that count as old? ::) definetely feels a bit like it. makes you reflect a bit.
No
Quote from: EBK on December 07, 2017, 03:48:02 PM
What I learned in undergrad engineering school: there is (probably) a solution to every problem. Also, how much alcohol I could consume before it would create immediate trouble.
(Be adventurous.)
What I learned in graduate engineering school: No matter how smart I think I am in any particular subject, there will always be someone who is 100 times smarter in the same subject. Also, undergraduate students will somehow think you have super powers if you can tell them within 5 seconds of looking at their breadboarded circuit that their power supply polarity is reversed.
(Be humble.)
What I learned in law school: Every yes/no question can legitimately be answered, "It depends." Also, I don't ever want to actually work as a lawyer.
(Be open-minded.)
Lawyer here. Law school was fun, practice is interesting, at least.
Quote from: playpunk on December 08, 2017, 06:53:43 AM
Lawyer here. Law school was fun, practice is interesting, at least.
For me, law school was interesting, but my law degree came with embarassing side effects. Occasionally, the lawyer side of me blurts out something about potential legal liability when discussing fun plans with friends. I don't even realize I'm going to spout legalese until it happens. A drummer once called me Buzz Killington after I uncontrollably suggested that our cover band shouldn't perform at a neighborhood block party over copyright concerns. ::)
I'm not well. :-[
Quote from: EBK on December 08, 2017, 07:21:52 AM
Quote from: playpunk on December 08, 2017, 06:53:43 AM
Lawyer here. Law school was fun, practice is interesting, at least.
For me, law school was interesting, but my law degree came with embarassing side effects. Occasionally, the lawyer side of me blurts out something about potential legal liability when discussing fun plans with friends. I don't even realize I'm going to spout legalese until it happens. A drummer once called me Buzz Killington after I uncontrollably suggested that our cover band shouldn't perform at a neighborhood block party over copyright concerns. ::)
I'm not well. :-[
Ha. As a litigator, I am constantly trying to reassure people that their *actual* liability is usually negligible. Who would sue your cover band? What would they get from it? Isn't your cover (covered) by the fair use doctrine? Does your cover band even exist as an entity to be sued?
It sounds to me like you're still suffering from law student syndrome: you see liability where none exists. The practice of law is, essentially, commercial. No one wants to spend money on lawyers when there isn't money to be gained at the end of the day. Remember that, always.
I would say that the only fault in the trades vs college debate is that a good number of the people publicly pushing that as a path also aren't politically affiliated with a party that also supports organized labor(unions). and for a tradesman that isn't interested in taking on the risk of small business ownership(more fail than succeed) or the rather nomadic lifestyle associated with chasing big money(contract work tends to kill marriages), organized labor is the option best suited to provide them a stable job with decent wages, benefits, and retirement that are at least on a middle class par with the risk/reward of getting a college education and associated higher level job ... probably a little deeper than most would like to go, but that is my experience working in a trade and around related trades.
Quote from: playpunk on December 08, 2017, 07:59:05 AM
Ha. As a litigator, I am constantly trying to reassure people that their *actual* liability is usually negligible. Who would sue your cover band? What would they get from it? Isn't your cover (covered) by the fair use doctrine? Does your cover band even exist as an entity to be sued?
It sounds to me like you're still suffering from law student syndrome: you see liability where none exists. The practice of law is, essentially, commercial. No one wants to spend money on lawyers when there isn't money to be gained at the end of the day. Remember that, always.
Venues can be sued by ASCAP or BMI if they regularly have cover bands. It's not common, but it has happened. But as you said, follow the money. Nobody is going to sue a dive bar over a cover band, but they might go after a major event organizer with sizable revenue from ticket sales.
I'm not an attorney, but I'm friends with several and always pick their brain. One thing I've learned is that pretty much all heat-of-the-moment utterances of "I'm going to sue you!" are totally bullshit. Most people have no idea how civil lawsuits actually play out or the financial commitment required. They see the ambulance chaser ads that say "we don't get paid unless you do" and assume all litigators work on this model. Definitely NOT true. I got threatened with a lawsuit a few years back and did a ton of research. Either there has to be money on the table or you really gotta dislike somebody (and have a lot of extra money you don't need) to fully pursue a civil suit. And most of them aren't intended to "win" in court, they are merely a club used to encourage some other party to behave differently (so to speak). I should have gone to law school. :)
Quote from: culturejam on December 08, 2017, 12:25:52 PM
Quote from: playpunk on December 08, 2017, 07:59:05 AM
Ha. As a litigator, I am constantly trying to reassure people that their *actual* liability is usually negligible. Who would sue your cover band? What would they get from it? Isn't your cover (covered) by the fair use doctrine? Does your cover band even exist as an entity to be sued?
It sounds to me like you're still suffering from law student syndrome: you see liability where none exists. The practice of law is, essentially, commercial. No one wants to spend money on lawyers when there isn't money to be gained at the end of the day. Remember that, always.
Venues can be sued by ASCAP or BMI if they regularly have cover bands. It's not common, but it has happened. But as you said, follow the money. Nobody is going to sue a dive bar over a cover band, but they might go after a major event organizer with sizable revenue from ticket sales.
I'm not an attorney, but I'm friends with several and always pick their brain. One thing I've learned is that pretty much all heat-of-the-moment utterances of "I'm going to sue you!" are totally bullshit. Most people have no idea how civil lawsuits actually play out or the financial commitment required. They see the ambulance chaser ads that say "we don't get paid unless you do" and assume all litigators work on this model. Definitely NOT true. I got threatened with a lawsuit a few years back and did a ton of research. Either there has to be money on the table or you really gotta dislike somebody (and have a lot of extra money you don't need) to fully pursue a civil suit. And most of them aren't intended to "win" in court, they are merely a club used to encourage some other party to behave differently (so to speak). I should have gone to law school. :)
It costs between five and ten thousand dollars to get a civil case ready for trial in New York. And then you have to pay experts, etc., and for all the attorney time for a trial. A claim of less than $30,000 is really hard to justify if it has any complexity at all.
THE LAWERS ARE TAKING OVER THE THREAD! LETS sue them!
As I was saying, I've been out of the loop for a couple of years! I was just 20 now I am turning 66 on Christmas Eve!
Am I the oldest on Madbean's Forum?
In my experience, clubs don't get sued, they get fined, and then bands like mine don't get to play there anymore unless we have ascap affiliations or dues or something of the sort. I'm assuming they pissed somebody off, otherwise, who has time to go to pissant little clubs and check their ascap BMI Licenses?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last time I looked into it (when dinosaurs roamed the Earth) you could get a blanket Lisence for $150 US.
Quote from: blearyeyes on December 10, 2017, 06:38:03 PM
Last time I looked into it (when dinosaurs roamed the Earth) you could get a blanket Lisence for $150 US.
I don't know, I was rogue for the years that I did it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: thesmokingman on December 08, 2017, 08:59:00 AM
I would say that the only fault in the trades vs college debate is that a good number of the people publicly pushing that as a path also aren't politically affiliated with a party that also supports organized labor(unions). and for a tradesman that isn't interested in taking on the risk of small business ownership(more fail than succeed) or the rather nomadic lifestyle associated with chasing big money(contract work tends to kill marriages), organized labor is the option best suited to provide them a stable job with decent wages, benefits, and retirement that are at least on a middle class par with the risk/reward of getting a college education and associated higher level job ... probably a little deeper than most would like to go, but that is my experience working in a trade and around related trades.
Really interesting contribution to the conversation—thanks for sharing!
I am 44
You know you're old when you get injured by going to sleep.
"Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer you get to the end, the faster it goes"