madbeanpedals::forum

Projects => General Questions => Topic started by: stevie1556 on December 12, 2018, 01:20:58 PM

Title: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on December 12, 2018, 01:20:58 PM
I've just seen some decal paper that doesn't leave a film and just wondering if anyone has any experience with it. The only time I've used decal paper was years ago and putting a clear powder coat layer on top. The issue with that was on the lighter colours, if you weren't extremely careful, the water marks showed as brown spots under the clear coat.

Seems to work the same way as normal decal paper, but the glue sticks the image down and then the film can be pulled off, and then baked in an oven to cure the image. Here is a link to the video https://youtu.be/4gP9ChoGSTY (https://youtu.be/4gP9ChoGSTY)
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: cooder on December 13, 2018, 02:04:57 AM
I have ordered that stuff and am also really curious, haven't had a chance to try it out yet, but will report back when I have my first experience with it.
So far I have used their standard decal film stuff and that is a great product.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on December 13, 2018, 07:41:55 AM
Cheers for that. If their normal stuff is decent then I'm going to take a punt on it and hope for the best.

I'm hoping that when baking the decals in the oven, the powder coat won't melt into it or distort or anything like that. I'll let everyone know how well the decals work as soon as I get time to try them out.

FYI, if anyone else tries it on powder coated boxes, don't bake them in your kitchen oven as you'll eventually poison yourself.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on December 13, 2018, 12:31:04 PM
Just ordered some myself.  This looks great. 

I usually apply the waterslide decal before drilling to position the holes.  Sometimes the drill pushes chips under the decal and I have to remove it and reapply a new label.   This would eliminate that problem. 

Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on December 15, 2018, 07:06:26 PM
Bio77 - the only time I've used them, I had the holes pre-drilled so i could line the decal up properly. Hoping these work for you and solve that problem though.

Good news, the decals arrived yesterday. Bad news, I won't get a chance to try them until next weekend at the earliest. I've nearly finished getting some designs ready so I can get them down the print shop this week as I don't have a laser printer anymore.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on December 21, 2018, 03:30:41 PM
Managed to get the designs finished up and taken to a local print company. Ideally I wanted to do it earlier this week but the acoustic multi effect label needed a bit more tweaking.

I took the designs on a SD card but they didn't have a card reader available, but luckily I printed the designs out at home and took them with me. I wasn't sure how well they'd copy across but looking at the decals they seem to have a good amount of toner coverage and colour.

The pedals I've done labels for are for my acoustic build, MB Dreamtime, green Russian, MBs Narosla (modified EP booster) and a Phase 45. I've also got a load of labels for the back plates printed. I'm going to drill the enclosures tomorrow, hopefully get them all painted up over the weekend as well, but that depends on work. For the acoustic pedal and the Dreamtime, I'm going to have 3mm pilot holes drilled and can line the labels up using that, for the other pedals, I've got absolutely no idea how I'll get the labels lined up correctly.

I've got high hopes for these labels!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181221/40afea65adc9848865d7838c6ad0ecd9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181221/6215f783849935191d72881fc908b1dd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181221/2fe9785ddef0c431c865cd10d42ed4f6.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: cooder on December 21, 2018, 04:50:19 PM
Looking great and keen to see and hear how these work for you!
Good luck with the lining up!
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: EBK on January 10, 2019, 11:39:24 AM
I've been looking at the video demo for this product, but one thing has me confused: the glue.

What type of glue is that?  And, why doesn't it look like crap on the clear glass in their demo pic?  Is the glue magically invisible?  Would I have to carefully mask the area that I apply the glue in to get a decent looking result?

One thing I would also like to try: 
What if I were to glue a regular piece of decal paper toner side down and try to peel it off?  Could it possibly work exactly the same?
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: cooder on January 11, 2019, 12:49:59 AM
I've been looking at the video demo for this product, but one thing has me confused: the glue.

What type of glue is that?  And, why doesn't it look like crap on the clear glass in their demo pic?  Is the glue magically invisible?  Would I have to carefully mask the area that I apply the glue in to get a decent looking result?

One thing I would also like to try: 
What if I were to glue a regular piece of decal paper toner side down and try to peel it off?  Could it possibly work exactly the same?
I still didn't have the right project coming up to give this a try, I'm also looking forward to see if there's issues with glue residue, hopefully not. I would doubt that regular decal paper toner down would do the same thing... I would guess that this stuff has a substrate that the toner doesn't stick too well too so that it comes off once attached with the glue easy enough when you peel. I will certainly post something when I have some experience with that, but stevie1556 might beat me to it.
I am specifically trying to do decal on guitar head stock with that, hoping that it will blend in much better than the regular film would.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on January 11, 2019, 03:58:14 AM
EBK - I'm not sure on the glue type, the glue pot just says W1. W2 is the glue you use to dry nataurally without using an oven.

I've just got a bunch of enclosures painted up then I'm going to use the decals on either today or tomorrow, I'll let you know the results when I get them done.

As for the glue residue, here is what the instructions say, hope this helps a bit. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190111/970d519c68156d6cb26d36274e3e17d0.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Willybomb on January 11, 2019, 04:06:49 AM
Quote
I took the designs on a SD card but they didn't have a card reader available

I always take mine on a USB stick.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on January 11, 2019, 04:13:40 AM
Yeah, I'll be doing that next time, just need to get a USB stick.

I'm hoping these will be good for if you're only making a few pedals. Being in the UK, the postage and import charges of the UV printed enclosures from PPP is just too much, and normal decal sheets with the clear coat on top is just a complete PITA the get right.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on January 13, 2019, 05:07:55 AM
UPDATE!

I tried using these yesterday and had massively mixed results.  Apologies for the lack of pictures, but I was getting far too annoyed when they weren't working correctly.

Two things I'll mention first. Their YouTube video says to soak the decal for 30 seconds, but the instructions that came with them says 3-5 seconds. If you do the 30 seconds the decal falls off of the paper in the water, so around 5 seconds is about right. Also, I didn't have a paint brush to put the glue onto the enclosure with, so I used a squeegee type thing, and tried various amounts of glue.

On my acoustic pedal enclosure, I put the decal on the back plate first, then I did the front ones individually, but the ones on the front became all wrinkly after a few minutes even though the one on the back was fine.

On a fair few of the back plates, the decal didn't transfer properly, I'm not sure why. I'm going to strip them off later today and redo them.

The yellow label for the Peewee Booster (Beans modified EP booster from the DIY page) didn't show on the red paint, so I'll have to redo that in a different colour.

The labels for the Creamy Dreamer (Beans Dreamtime) were originally in blue, however, I ended up using a baby blue on the enclosure and that colour wouldn't have worked. The print shop accidentally left the copier on the black and white setting so there was a lot of toner on the transfer, and apart from 1 enclosure, they turned out great. Having the copier set to black and white and not on colour allows for more black toner on the decal.

When cleaning any excess glue off the enclosure using isopropanal alcohol, it does remove a very small amount of the toner. Not sure if it's noticeable or not, but there was some toner on the kitchen towel that I used. You can also faintly see where the decal sheet as been applied. I'm assuming it's where the powder started melting slightly.

One last thing, I'm not sure if my overs were set slightly too high or not. The dial marks are 70, a load of notches, 120, a load of notches, 180, a load a notches, etc. Between 70-120 there are more mother then the 120-180 range, so I'm going to take a temperature probe with me today.

I'll add the results of round 2 either tonight or tomorrow, along with more pictures.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190113/5f0f09610c4aba6184e350bd383a7a50.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190113/0315b474eec523376e6d4fdb7a525bd9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190113/a8bad42e0447f7c9002e0369010d6649.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190113/09a2e251b2370cc41d778b7fdc1920db.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190113/30866b4bcd8d33a0096b00843d7c386d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190113/60a89048adbb57a426002b6121c20c6b.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on January 13, 2019, 12:13:15 PM
I used them yesterday myself.  I found a technique to get good results.

Stevie1556 don't try to remove the botched label with acetone.  I did this, and that enclosure is going in the trash (Side note: I used nail polish remover, maybe proper acetone will work better).  Instead make small labels for the part that didn't work out and overlay a new label. 

Technique that worked:

1.  Follow the instructions through to step 7:  Wet label, put glue on box, put label on, dry with hair dryer.
2.  Ignore step 8: do not remove the film, yet. 
3.  Place enclosure in 250 F toaster oven for 30 min.
4.  Now remove film.
5.  Wipe down with alcohol to clean off glue.



Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: cooder on January 13, 2019, 01:39:55 PM
Seems like a bit of a learning curve for this... thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on January 13, 2019, 03:58:09 PM
I didn't manage to get any more done today, a friend came round unexpectedly and then I managed to lock myself out the house. The issue is my key was in the door lock on the inside so I couldn't use a spare key. On the plus side, my neighbour came out of his house on the phone to the police as he thought someone was trying to break into my house, so at least I now know that he keeps an eye on my place!

Bio77 - with the label removing, I've got 99.9% pure acetone, so hopefully it will remove the toner before it starts eating into the powder coat.

When you say about redoing the labels, did you just soak a new decal in water, apply glue, then line the new decal up perfectly over the original decal? Did that work quite well? Did it cause any ridges on the transferred toner or anything?

With the way that you've done yours, I did mine a different way. After applying the decal to the enclosure, I didn't dry them with a hair drier, instead I put them in the oven at approximately 100'C (Google says that works out to be 212'F) for 10 minutes. When the enclosure had cooled down I then removed the decal.

With the decal, did it leave any marks on the enclosure from where it was? And did you use bare, spray painted or powder coated? Have you got any pictures of your results as well?

I've just looked at the instructions again and it says 10-20 minutes in the oven so maybe they needed slightly longer. I'll try that, and also the technique that you did and I'll post my results. I've got a fair few bits to do over the next few days but I'll try and fit it in somewhere.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on January 14, 2019, 01:06:07 PM
I tried two enclosures this weekend.  Small sample size, so, I'll need to replicate my results to say for sure.

First enclosure was powder coated.  I applied the label steps 1-6.  I did not use a hair dryer, instead, I let it sit overnight.  When I removed the film, the main graphic was perfectly set.  Medium text (~14-18 pt) was partially set (like your pictures).  Small text (~10-12 pt) didn't transfer.  The instructions said acetone would remove the ink.  I tried with the nail polish remover, it didn't work well.  I used some 400 grit sand paper with the NP remover and it became a gummy mess.  I did not try the re-applying technique I recommended, but I believe this would have worked.  Good news is that when the label works the graphics are really on there.

Second enclosure was plain.  I sanded and polished it first.  I applied the label, used the hair dryer.  After a thorough drying on the high setting (enclosure was hot) I peeled up the corner of the film and noticed that the small text was not transferring from the film to the enclosure, so, a smoothed it bad in place.  Next, I placed it in the toaster oven at 250 F for 30 minutes.  When it cooled, I removed the film, everything transferred, even small text.  I have worked with polished enclosures in the past and regular waterslide does not stick well to the surface.  So, I was pretty impressed with this one.

I'd try the acetone on your least favorite part to see if it works.  Let us know if it does, maybe I can still salvage my botched enclosure. 
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on January 15, 2019, 04:23:06 AM
Thanks for the more info there.

With the powder coating and acetone, I know it's a lot more resistant then spray paint but still need to be a bit careful with it. If you've used sandpaper, then it probably needs fully stripping before it can be reused properly. I've had enclosures soaking in acetone for 24 hours and the powder coat in still a complete PITA to remove (Although it's completely messed up by then). If you look on eBay you can find 99.9% pure acetone quite cheaply that should work better then nail polish remover, although make sure you wear gloves, when I didn't my nails were trashed and were breaking just by looking at them.

That's good that it's worked so well for the polished enclosure, although I'm surprised the normal water slide decals didn't work too well. The instructions say to dry it using a hair drier, microwave or oven, so I used the oven, I may try the hair drier method next though, especially if it gave you great results.

I've come up with a theory on why the imprint of the plastic part of the decal is in the paint, and that's because the paint had started melting slightly in the oven. The powder I use is done at 180'C, and the instructions say to use 100'C, but like I said in an earlier post, I think the over was set just slightly higher then that. Maybe putting the enclosure back in the oven after the decal is removed will solve that issue, I'm not sure but I'll try it, and I'm also going to set the ovens using the thermometer that I've got rather then the dial on the oven as that doesn't make 100'C clear on it.

Most likely tomorrow, I'm going to try the above improvements, putting a decal on top of one that didn't transfer right and removing a decal, just to see which method is best for re-applying them.

Also, one point of interest, I had 5 enclosures and their base plates in the oven for 10 mins, and all came out near great. I then had 5 enclosures and 10 base plates in the oven for 10 minutes, and on those ones the transfers weren't very good, especially on the base plates. I'm going to try 5 enclourses and 5 base plates for 10-15mins at a set 100'C and see if that makes improvements.

I'm on call with work tomorrow, so if I'm not called to go in then I'll be trying these again. If great, consistent results can't be achieved, then it's a easy way to label enclosures. That's the only thing that's stopped me building the VFE Rats and I've got a PedalPCB D3lay kit coming today that will need labelling.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on January 15, 2019, 02:24:58 PM
While I'm sitting here putting various label designs onto a couple of sheets ready to take to the print shop in the morning, I've had a thought with the labels, that may have been some of the cause of the bad transfers. They couldn't take the designs on the SD card so they photocopied the ones that I printed. I only used normal plain paper, so the print quality wasn't as good as it could have been. Also, the first sheet got printed on the black and white setting and there was much more toner on the decal sheet then when it was redone on the colour setting (for the black colour at least). I had a quick look at the enclosures earlier, I'm the ones that had more black toner on transferred really well. The back plates transferred well as well. I'm going to get the new labels printed on the black and white setting to see if that helps as well.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on January 17, 2019, 12:56:58 PM
Ok, I spent the majority of the afternoon in the garage. I tried screen printing, had mixed results. Although I think it's fair to say that I really don't like 2 part catalysed inks! May put that idea on the back burner for now.

Onto the film decals.....

Acetone removes them straight away, although I remember the powder coat being more resistant to it, but unfortunately not this time. Trashed a back plate trying it. However, laying a decal on top of one already there can be done quite easily.

I did 5 enclosures in the oven earlier, they turned out great. Approximately 12 minutes in the oven for them, however, where the film was, you can see it (as per the other enclosures). I've got 2 flood lights attached to the rafters in the garage and I'm not sure if they amplify the issue. I'm going to try clear coating them to see if that covers the issue. My other idea is to dry it with a hair drier (as that shouldn't get hot enough to start melting the powder coat), then remove the film then put them in the oven to harden the toner.

Or maybe I'm just being overly pedantic and worrying over nothing.....(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190117/30cef24cb697ad81c7411e781a31fa6c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190117/e89760f2a31be7079fd291e3710e5b55.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on January 17, 2019, 01:44:56 PM
Is that glue?  Maybe can be cleaned off with alcohol?
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on January 17, 2019, 03:34:44 PM
I was rubbing it with isopropyl alcohol. Their videos and instructions say to use alcohol, so it should have worked. I'm going to double check the bottle tomorrow to make sure that I was using the right stuff. Either that or I'll try the vodka as that's alcohol hahahaha.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on January 17, 2019, 03:49:58 PM
It occurred to me, it might be mineral deposits from the water.  Is the water very hard where you are?  Mine is hard, so, I use deionized water to soak all my labels.

If it is, it might come off with some vinegar. Or any other mild acid you have around.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on January 17, 2019, 04:06:26 PM
I just got halfway through writing my message out saying the water tap I used is connected to a water filter as our water here is ridiculously hard, then I remembered I used warm water which is connected to a water softener when it enters the house. Even with the water filter, my coffee machine still clogged up on a regular basis, so I use the bottles water that we get at work for it and it's been fine since (Only saying that to show that even with a filter, the water is hard!). So that could be caused be the salt from the water softener. I'm glad you said about that as it wouldn't have even occurred to me to think that. I'll try some vinegar on it in the next couple of days.

However, the main issue seems to be where the decal has been peeled off affecting the paint (like it's started to melt). I'll try some experiments with the water though. Also, going to try drying one with a hair drier, peel the film off, and then put it in the oven.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on January 17, 2019, 06:46:35 PM
I think that melting effect might also be mineral deposit.  The vinegar should let you know.

Also, the filter won't change the mineral content of the water.  The softener will get rid of the Ca and Mg ions (replaced by sodium), so, using the hot water next time would be better.   But best bet is to get some distilled (deionized) water at the market, It's cheap. 
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on January 19, 2019, 04:35:40 PM
n=2

I got perfect transfer, no ink on the removed film.  I used the hair dryer and put it in the toaster oven for 35 minutes at 250F.

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: cooder on January 19, 2019, 08:19:55 PM
That looks great! Thanks for all the detailed sharing of your process, very helpful!
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on January 19, 2019, 08:58:34 PM
Thanks.  It also seems very durable.  I tried scratching it with my finger nail and it doesn't come off.  I normally put 3-5 coats of clear over a waterslide to protect it.  I'm not going put anything on this one and see how it holds up. 
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on January 20, 2019, 06:54:34 PM
Wow, that label looks absolutely fantastic! Did you leave the film on when it was in the oven? And did you have any of the paint issues like I've had on those red enclosures?

What circuit are you putting into this enclosure?

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on January 21, 2019, 11:53:05 AM
Yes, I left the film on.  I blow dried it for a few minutes.  When it seemed pretty dry, I kept blow drying and smoothed any wrinkles flat.  Next, into the oven.  Removed the film after it cooled.  Cleaned with 91% isopropanol. 

This is going to be a tube screamer for a friend of mine.  The box is from Tayda, paint was fine after oven.  Was there any improvement after vinegar? Did you powder coat yourself?
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on January 22, 2019, 11:09:23 AM
I'm going to try using your technique on them tomorrow. As I said above, your box looks fantastic!

Yeah I powder coated the enclosures myself. I'm fortunate that I can use my mum's garage or my dad's barn to do it in (and more importantly, I found out my dad has a space heater in there!). If it wasn't for that I wouldn't be able to do them as I don't have anywhere I can do it at mine.

I had a quick look at them earlier, the white ones don't seem to have any marks on them, the green ones just seem to have a tiny line where the edge of the decal was, the red ones are how they are in the pictures above. I'm going to try wiping them with vinegar tomorrow and see if that makes any difference.

I'm also wondering if it's something to do with the amount of glue that I used. It was one of the enclosures where I didn't have a paint brush to put the label on with and instead put it on with a little squeegee so was guessing the amount to use. I'm also thinking the blue enclosure didn't work properly because I just tipped glue out of the pot onto the area.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on January 28, 2019, 01:40:52 PM
Just wanted to finish up my thoughts about these no film decals.  I really like the two enclosures I've made so far.  I was able to precisely drill the holes without running the risk of ruining the label.  The last one I made, I didn't apply any clear coat, and it seems durable.  From printing the decal to finished/drilled enclosure was less than 2 hours. 

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: cooder on January 28, 2019, 02:31:54 PM
That looks absolutely great!
Thanks to you for sharing your experience and process so indepth, very helpful and much appreciated!
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on February 01, 2019, 05:57:04 PM
That pedal looks absolutely fantastic! Loving the eyes on it.

How did you find lining up the label? I had pre-drilled holes in the enclosure, and then drill markers on the decals that I used to line it up with.

I haven't had a chance to play around with them anymore yet, I'm hoping my next lot of days off work will give me the time to do it though. Just received my new powder coating gun so I plan on spraying up a load of enclosures plus a few spare ones to carry out more tests with.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on February 01, 2019, 06:25:35 PM
I put the label on before I drill.  My graphic usually has a thin dotted outline to center it on the enclosure.  I like these better than the film ones because drilling through the film sometimes ruins the label.  i thought winning these up was easier, the film is a bit thicker.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on February 09, 2019, 12:56:19 PM
n=3, turned out horrible.  I didn't get good transfer, so, I tried to to re-do the bad parts with cut outs from the main graphic.  I ended up with the stain/glue marks stevie1556 described.  I'll try to clean with acetone.  It's a shame, this was an expensive box from SB (chrome powder coat).  The only thing I did differently was I skimped on the hairdryer step, maybe that's the key??   
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on February 09, 2019, 01:25:33 PM
Tried to remove stains with acetone, it took off the paint.  The paint did not come off when I used acetone on the Tayda boxes.  So, maybe the type of powder coat is important too.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on February 09, 2019, 06:41:16 PM
Ah that's not good reading about your chrome box! Such a shame as that box would have looked amazing if it worked.

I haven't had time to do anymore testing yet, but I've got a few theories. My red boxes don't look as bad as your one, I just tried to catch the marks in the light as best as I could. I've just looked at some blue boxes that I did, and you can barely see where the decal was. Also, there are none of the water type marks on them. A lot of my powder came from a local powder coating company that was throwing out a lot of their old, out of date powder (although it was stored correctly so it's still good to use), the issue with this is there could be different types of powder that I'm using, so unfortunately I can't test the different types of powder theory. I'm going to paint up a few more scrap enclosures in the red powder and use your suggestion of the hair drier to see if that works on them. Thing is, the blue enclosures I used the same method on and they turned out as close to perfect as they could be.

After putting the decal onto the enclosure, I then just put them straight into the oven for 10 minutes, but I've had massively varying results. With the hair drier, did you take the label off when it was dry then put it in the oven, or leave the decal on when it was in oven?

I'm in the process of making a few drilling templates so I can get a bunch of enclosures drilled and then coated on my days off. I've just got my new powder coating gun, I just need to get some fittings for it then that's good to go!
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on February 10, 2019, 12:28:33 AM
Not sure if it's the hair dryer.  I think the paint is the most likely culprit.  Like you said, it seemed to melt a bit in the toaster oven and didn't play nice with the glue.  The Tayda powder coat is really on there, doesn't come off with acetone.  I'm not sure what kind of powder they use.

Yes, my process with the Tayda enclosures was to use the hair dryer.  Next leave the film on and put the whole thing in the oven for 35 minutes.  Then peel off the film.  I got perfect transfer.  However this is all speculation, that bat enclosure might have been a fluke.  I'll update the thread with any new ones I do.  My next two are going to be bare metal, though.  I stripped the paint off the Rustbucket enclosure and I'm going to sand it down before re-applying.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on February 10, 2019, 05:05:35 AM
If the cause is how different powder coats react to the glue or decal, especially where the decal papers the melt the outline into the powder coat, I may have found a potential solution. Reading the instructions again, it says to dry it use the oven, hair dryer or microwave. That to me suggests that once it's fully dry from the hair dryer, the decal can then be removed. Then it says to harden the ink it can be placed in the oven. I'm going to be trying that as well as the hair dryer should get the powder hot enough to start melting. Having said that, the powder I use cures at 180'C, but for the decals the ovens are 100'C so I thought the powder should have been ok.

*EDIT* Just watched their YouTube video again, and they dry the decal using a hair dryer, remove the decal, then place it in the oven. I'm going to be trying that.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on February 11, 2019, 02:04:22 PM
I tried to remove the film right after the hairdryer step, didn't transfer.  Nice thing is, if you are careful when you peel it up, if it doesn't transfer you can lay it back down and put it in the oven.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on February 11, 2019, 02:08:15 PM
Couple more tries this weekend.  Both were bare metal.  Mixed results. 
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on February 18, 2019, 10:11:14 AM
I really like those transfers, they look great. On the bottom one I think Where it's slightly patchy makes it look better because of how the artwork looks. What I mean by that is that the patchy bits work well with it.

I've had a thought, if the hair dryer isn't that great, what about a hot air gun (like the type used for stripping paint). It will chick out a lot more heat then a hair dryer. I'll be trying that soon.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on February 18, 2019, 12:48:02 PM
My plan is to re-do the Rustbucket, maybe in a few weeks.  I want to try using an iron after the hair dryer step.  I'd really like this to be reliable, it looks so nice when it works.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on February 19, 2019, 05:47:52 PM
I agree, it looks amazing when it works well. I've attached a picture of one of my Dreamtime enclosures below, interestingly, it doesn't have any of the issues of the red enclosure despite being done exactly the same way.

My thoughts with the iron, could work really well on bare enclosures, although I wouldn't put one near a powder coated, or any type of painted one for that matter. If you redo it on a bare enclosure with the iron, I'm really interested to see the results when it's done!

I still haven't had time to paint any more enclosures up. I'll get my drilling point tutorial done in the next few days and I'll use that template to mark and drill another 15 enclosures. I would have got it finished sooner but my company have decided it's a good idea to make me work 34 hours in 3 days, 1 day on call then another 10 hour day.  The joys of working at the airport! The first template I've made is working fantastically well for 15 enclosures that I'm halfway through marking up. I'm planning on painting up a fair few scrap enclosures as well to do more testing with the decals on them. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190219/00baed0cdc2e52ca9db464ce5a73c72e.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on February 20, 2019, 01:23:17 PM
That looks great.  Hope the next ones come out the same.   
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: fair.child on February 22, 2019, 02:04:44 AM
This is my recent result

(https://i.ibb.co/Hrrnx5s/18-A0-D220-B41-A-41-A2-99-C0-DB57-AE4-E8-F5-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/hKKDZ3j)
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on February 23, 2019, 05:36:42 AM
Bio77 - thanks. That was my best one. Out of the 3 enclosures they were all close to perfect, I did that at the same time as the red enclosures above. Also, the green enclosures turned out well, but there is a very very very faint line where the decal was. Picture of it is below.

Fair.child, that enclosure looks great. What method did you use for it?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190223/b4db5f4a4d79c04aa4501253812086b1.jpg)

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: fair.child on February 23, 2019, 11:08:21 AM
Iím using B type paper and use hair dryer for 10 minutes and cool down for a minute or two. After that, peel the paper out.

I leave it for a night and the next day I just do clear coat
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on March 08, 2019, 02:55:08 PM
I finally got this one to work and I think I figured out the problem.  This enclosure is bare metal that I polished.  I used A type paper.

So, I tried this 3 times today, first two had the same problems I experienced earlier (incomplete graphic transfer).  The trick to getting this to work was to dry the label before applying it to the enclosure (glue applied).  It dawned on me that the water left on the film might be mixing with the glue and creating areas without bonding.  After applying the dried film, when I used the hairdryer there was very minimal bubbling under the film, pretty much only around the drilled holes.  The first two had a lot of bubbling everywhere, even though I smoothed it very flat when I first applied the label.  Considering, this is my 5th try at this graphic, I think I'm on to something here.  Also, I didn't note it, but I seem to recall drying the label for the bat enclosure that worked well. 

Total procedure:
1.  Put label in warm DI water
2.  Apply glue to enclosure
3.  Remove label from water, and dab dry on a paper towel
4.  Put label on enclosure and glide it into position
5.  Smooth flat with piece of foam (squeegee)
6.  Dry with hairdryer 10 minutes
7.  Put in toaster oven at 250 F for 30 minutes
8.  Remove film from label
9.  Clean excess glue with isopropanol

I'm not sure if the toaster oven is necessary but that's what I did this time. 
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: fair.child on March 08, 2019, 03:22:36 PM
Did you get A type film or B type film? Also, did you pre-drilled the enclosure or you drilled it later after you apply the transfer paper?
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on March 08, 2019, 04:49:18 PM
I have the A type paper.  I normally apply the graphic then drill.  This one was drilled before because I was going to settle on an earlier version (with patchy graphic), so, I drilled it.  But I changed my mind.  Glad I did, turned out great. 

Yours looks great.  What is the difference with the B paper?
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: EBK on March 08, 2019, 05:26:46 PM
The question I have for you guys is this:  Once you've experimented with this stuff for a while, you'll eventually run out of it.  When that happens, would you buy more?
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on March 11, 2019, 08:36:42 PM
The question I have for you guys is this:  Once you've experimented with this stuff for a while, you'll eventually run out of it.  When that happens, would you buy more?

If I can figure out a technique to get consistent result, then definitely yes.  When it works, I can label and drill an enclosure in about 1 to 1.5 hours.  I haven't been applying any clear coat.  Time will tell how durable they are long term.  If not, might have to go back to some clear coat.       
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on March 25, 2019, 11:51:48 AM
Another success! Seems that dabbing the label dry before placing on the glue was the trick. Still have some glue to work off the negative space, but the image transferred 100%.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/7924/SxlxUU.jpg)
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: cooder on March 25, 2019, 05:44:18 PM
Looks awesome! 8)
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: LaceSensor on March 26, 2019, 08:19:17 AM
pretty amazing.
Is that inkjet or laser toner?
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on April 08, 2019, 02:44:03 PM
Bio77 - That transfer looks fantastic! How did it turn out when the glue marks were cleaned up?

I've just finished drilling a bunch of enclosures for some builds and I'm going to get them painted up in the next few days. I'm going to paint up some old scrap enclosures to be able to test the decals on as well, and going to try a few different techniques to hopefully find one that works well for me. I'm also going to have my decal sheets printed at a different shop to see if they can get more toner onto the decal.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Drew Hallenbeck on April 09, 2019, 02:06:46 AM
I really want to try this stuff and I've ordered it twice from Amazon, both times it showed up without the glue....
The listing I'm ordering from clearly states that it comes with the glue.....
Not sure if it's worth fighting with them over. Is there somewhere I can order just the glue? Or is there something else that would work just as well?
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on April 09, 2019, 02:53:54 AM
I saw a couple of reviews that said that. I noticed that the sell the paper and glue on their own as well so probably worth just sending them a quick email.

Hopefully they sort it out quickly for you though :)

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on April 09, 2019, 11:42:48 AM
How did it turn out when the glue marks were cleaned up?

It cleaned up pretty well.  I worked it over pretty good with Q-tips and isopropanol.  The good news it that the graphic is really on there.  It didn't flake off at all.  I also didn't notice any color coming off, even with pretty vigorous rubbing.  This makes me think that the earlier enclosures you posted with the glue residue could be salvaged with some isopropanol and elbow grease.  Here's a pic I took this morning of the finished pedal:

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2515/1ZInHa.jpg)

It seems that the whole process is about the glue.  Making sure the glue is not diluted with water gives the best transfer.  Also, the glue cures with heat.  On this enclosure I left the film on and baked it for 30 minutes.  This would explain the residue. 

The enclosures I made this weekend, I just used the hair dryer for ~10 minutes and peeled off the film.  Cleaned the residue with isopropanol right away, then baked it.  Here's a pic of that enclosure (note:  it's a low resolution jpg I pulled off the web, the scratchy lines are from the graphic, not the transfer):

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/6941/vxmTVZ.jpg)

pretty amazing.
Is that inkjet or laser toner?


Sorry, I didn't notice your question before.  This only works with laser prints.

I really want to try this stuff and I've ordered it twice from Amazon, both times it showed up without the glue....
The listing I'm ordering from clearly states that it comes with the glue.....
Not sure if it's worth fighting with them over. Is there somewhere I can order just the glue? Or is there something else that would work just as well?

I agree with stevie1556, I don't think the paper is that special, It's the glue.  You definitely want to email them.
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on June 07, 2019, 06:08:13 AM
Bio77, that yellow one near enough looks screen printed! Looks amazing! I'll be trying the hair drier technique shortly!

I've finally got some spare time so managed to paint up a load of enclosures the other day. I'm was hoping to paint the rest of them up today but it's raining so hopefully I'll get them done Sunday morning (work and weather permitting). I'm not happy with my local printing place, they use one of the default settings on their printer for the prints, and wont let my give them a USB stick with the files on and instead want to photocopy the designs, but because I've only got plain printer paper, it loses some of the quality. I've found a 4 colour Samsung laser printer quite cheap so I'm tempted to get that and then be able to experiment at home more easily.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: Bio77 on June 07, 2019, 10:59:57 AM
Bio77, that yellow one near enough looks screen printed! Looks amazing! I'll be trying the hair drier technique shortly!

I've finally got some spare time so managed to paint up a load of enclosures the other day. I'm was hoping to paint the rest of them up today but it's raining so hopefully I'll get them done Sunday morning (work and weather permitting). I'm not happy with my local printing place, they use one of the default settings on their printer for the prints, and wont let my give them a USB stick with the files on and instead want to photocopy the designs, but because I've only got plain printer paper, it loses some of the quality. I've found a 4 colour Samsung laser printer quite cheap so I'm tempted to get that and then be able to experiment at home more easily.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Hi Stevie,
Good luck with the transfers.  I had some bad luck with my last transfer to an expensive Mammoth enclosure.  I'm convinced the powder coat material is very important to success with this process.  The good news is I have a ~95% success rate with the Tayda boxes, and they are the cheapest. 

I invested in a color laser printer a few years back.  I got a Dell, but I'm not sure they sell it anymore.  Mine was ~$250-$300 if I recall.  It's been a great investment.  With the whole family printing, I was buying an ink jet printer about once a year.  Whatever printer you get, you should check the availability/price of the toner cartages.  The model I got has knock off cartages available, which means I can replace them for ~$40. 
Title: Re: No film decal paper
Post by: stevie1556 on June 08, 2019, 04:41:17 AM
Now you've said about the type of powder maybe being an issue, I'm a bit worried. I've got no idea on the powder that I'm using as a few years ago, I phoned a powder coating place asking if they wouldn't mind selling me 1kg of powder (I figured it would be cheaper then ordering it online). The owner told me they has a massive pile of powders loaded up onto crates that they were throwing out and I was welcome to help myself. Managed to grab around about 400kg of powder for the cost of some beers as a thank you, the only issue is I've got no information on what type of powder that it is, only the colour! Hopefully the powder works fine with the labels!

For the printer, I'll be using my Epson inkjet for the normal every day printing stuff, and the laser for labels only I think, so hopefully the toner cost shouldn't be an issue. The printer is £130, genuine cartridges cost about £50 each so it would be cheaper to buy another printer! It's crazy! There are compatible ones that are much cheaper though, but if I use it just to print the labels on, hopefully it will be ok cost wise. I'm thinking this way I'll be able to adjust the settings easily to get the best label quality possible. Like I said in a previous post, my local printing place isn't that good and charge me £2 a sheet, so the costs soon mount up there!

The weather is looking good for tomorrow so I'm hoping to be able to finish painting up all the enclosures then, and then get on with labelling them during the week.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk