madbeanpedals::forum

General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: Ariosto on February 28, 2019, 04:31:55 AM

Title: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on February 28, 2019, 04:31:55 AM
Hallo from Germany,
In a very enthusiastic blaze of audacity, I decided to build the Aquaboy with charge pump AND modulation. It was a hell of a job needless to say. Well, the time of testing it came (yesterday), and...... It does not work.

1. In bypass position (not engaged) the audio signal get thru, good sign.
2. With pedal engaged, the LED is on, but no sound at all. In my ignorance I followed the signal with a self made audio probe. It comes thru the 3PRR (also, it is not to blame) up to the mother board (the cable comes from the "S" in the 3PRR to the "I" in the mother board as specified in the PDF). According with the schematic the audio signal goes direct to R2, but I get no audio signal there. I checked with a tester and, there is continuity (I find this fact very strange). If there is some good soul around there who could give me a helping hand, would be very very nice!

Thanks in advance,
Ariosto

PS: Sorry for the pictures´quality (my camera is dead, so I did them with my phone) and my not so good English.
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on February 28, 2019, 04:35:23 AM
Still another picture.....
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: zombiesonore on February 28, 2019, 05:03:58 AM
Hi there,
looking at the documents and the schematics, you should wire the send (S) pad of the 3PRR to the (S) pad of the Aquaboy board.
And, of course the Return (R) of the Aquaboy to the (R) of  the 3PRR.
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on February 28, 2019, 02:55:13 PM
Hi there,
looking at the documents and the schematics, you should wire the send (S) pad of the 3PRR to the (S) pad of the Aquaboy board.
And, of course the Return (R) of the Aquaboy to the (R) of  the 3PRR.

REALLY? Oh, shit. I connected the send of the 3PRR to the "I" of the Aquaboy PCB, and the return of the 3PRR to the "O" Aquaboy PCB. I will make the changes tomorrow and post the results. THANKS A LOT, MAN!
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on February 28, 2019, 05:12:48 PM
OK, I connected the "R" of the 3PRR to the "R" of the PCB and the "S" of the 3PRR to the "S" of the PCB as above mentioned. Before I´m going wrong again, a stupid question: Now I must connect the +15v in the 3PRR to the "+" in the PCB, but, where must I connect the "-" of the PCB?
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: zombiesonore on March 01, 2019, 03:32:26 AM
To one of the (G) pad of the 3PRR.
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on March 01, 2019, 01:16:29 PM
I soldered the "+15" in the 3PRR to the "+" in the PCB, and one of the "G" to the "-" in the PCB (since there´s no "-15" in the 3 PRR). No way. With pedal OFF the audio signal get thru, Pedal ON nothing. Any other suggestion around?
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: zombiesonore on March 01, 2019, 05:49:00 PM
Please post good pictures with all the wiring.
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on March 03, 2019, 08:23:10 AM
My phone is not very good and my camera is dead, but I´ll try to upload some decent pictures with the complete wiring!
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on March 03, 2019, 02:40:30 PM
Please post good pictures with all the wiring.
OK, I did some pictures and I hope that the quality will be good enough to appreciate (hopefully) where is the problem. I words, the thing goes so:

"S" from the 3PRR to "S" in the PCB (Red cable)
"R" from the 3PRR to "R" in the PCB (brown cable)
"+15" from the 3PRR to the "+" in the PCB (brown cable)
2 "G2s from the 3 PRR. One to "-" in the PCB, another to the "G" in the PCB

Apparently, no cold joints or shortcuts.
Arieoto
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on March 03, 2019, 02:42:30 PM
Some more pics:
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on March 03, 2019, 02:43:07 PM
And still more:
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on March 03, 2019, 02:45:28 PM
The three last:
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: zombiesonore on March 03, 2019, 03:56:25 PM
ookay, I get something.
The (+) & (-) pads at the bottom of the Aquaboy board are for a LED not for powering the board.
You need to run wires from (+15) and a (G) of the 3PRR to the (+) & (-) pads of the +9V at the top of the aquaboy board, next to the feedback pot pads.
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on March 05, 2019, 04:52:04 AM
ookay, I get something.
The (+) & (-) pads at the bottom of the Aquaboy board are for a LED not for powering the board.
You need to run wires from (+15) and a (G) of the 3PRR to the (+) & (-) pads of the +9V at the top of the aquaboy board, next to the feedback pot pads.

THANKS A LOT, MAN! It works. I must do the calibration process now. But your guidance spared me hours of work...!
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: zombiesonore on March 05, 2019, 03:00:25 PM
No problemo!
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: HamSandwich on March 05, 2019, 04:19:11 PM
Why am I the only one who voted?
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on March 12, 2019, 11:49:10 AM
Voted what?
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: HamSandwich on March 12, 2019, 10:26:03 PM
Voted what?

I don’t know man, you made the poll!
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on March 13, 2019, 03:27:38 PM
Hi, Ham Sandwich. I am new in this place and I did not understand what you said. Now I voted. THANKS!
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on March 22, 2019, 06:20:02 PM
I must sadly revive this post. I succeed 100% with the build, calibration, and the modulation worked fine!........... Out of the box. As soon as I boxed everything -which was a hell of a creative job- I did haven´t no delay signal anymore. But surprisingly, the signal pass thru when the pedal is engaged. Checked the signal with the audio probe (not completely yet) and it is apparently everything alright. Later I decided to play a bit with the trimpots and all I´ve got now is a distorted delay signal at low volume. I checked the voltages but as I have a 3PRR the values are not equal as in the PDF. Some advice out there?

Ariosto
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: HamSandwich on March 26, 2019, 03:21:41 PM
Sounds like something it shorting some where. When you audio probed, did you check the output of the delay chip? I believe you should only be getting delayed signal out of that, no 'clean'. And also, when you take the circuit out of the box, does it work again?
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on March 27, 2019, 03:03:12 PM
Sounds like something it shorting some where. When you audio probed, did you check the output of the delay chip? I believe you should only be getting delayed signal out of that, no 'clean'. And also, when you take the circuit out of the box, does it work again?

I took the circuit out of the box, hoping that everything would come back to normality again, but no way. I used a bit audio probe, but I began from the input, when in fact is the opposite, must go back from the output. It is very frustrating and time demanding, but there is no other way to find the problem. I´ve got a theory: As I am using the 3PRR, could be any chance that some component died due to the new voltage? How could I know it?

Ariosto
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Scruffie on March 27, 2019, 03:06:10 PM
Sounds like something it shorting some where. When you audio probed, did you check the output of the delay chip? I believe you should only be getting delayed signal out of that, no 'clean'. And also, when you take the circuit out of the box, does it work again?

I took the circuit out of the box, hoping that everything would come back to normality again, but no way. I used a bit audio probe, but I began from the input, when in fact is the opposite, must go back from the output. It is very frustrating and time demanding, but there is no other way to find the problem. I´ve got a theory: As I am using the 3PRR, could be any chance that some component died due to the new voltage? How could I know it?

Ariosto
So it worked on 9V and then you increased the voltage?

You can't do that, the 571 will need its biasing resistor values changing for the new voltage.
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on March 28, 2019, 03:18:35 AM
Sounds like something it shorting some where. When you audio probed, did you check the output of the delay chip? I believe you should only be getting delayed signal out of that, no 'clean'. And also, when you take the circuit out of the box, does it work again?

I took the circuit out of the box, hoping that everything would come back to normality again, but no way. I used a bit audio probe, but I began from the input, when in fact is the opposite, must go back from the output. It is very frustrating and time demanding, but there is no other way to find the problem. I´ve got a theory: As I am using the 3PRR, could be any chance that some component died due to the new voltage? How could I know it?

Ariosto
So it worked on 9V and then you increased the voltage?

You can't do that, the 571 will need its biasing resistor values changing for the new voltage.

Mmmm, no. I´ve build it with the 3PRR from scratch.

As in the official Aquaboy PDF says:

"15v operation
Higher supply voltage means more headroom in the signal path which many guitar players like and the Aquaboy sounds
very good at 15v. You will need to change R13 and R14 to 36k to increase the bias output from the compressor. The
biasing procedure will be the same, although the clock frequency range will change a bit. The FDBK control may go into
self-oscillation at an earlier point at 15v operation, so you should socket R30 and increase its value to get the response
you want.
Important: if you run the Aquaboy at 15v it needs to be regulated! Use a Road Rage, 3PRR, or similar charge pump
with a regulator. Feeding more than 15v to the MN3005 could result in damage. One important consideration here is using
a charge pump introduces a second clock into the circuit and this can result in heterodyne (clock noise). If using a charge
pump I suggest you test your build carefully beforehand to ensure you get a good result."

Must I re-check the values of R13 and R14 again? Is there a way to know if I damaged an IC then? Why did it worked out of the box and then died? Why do I have audio signal in both positions?

Thans a lot for your help.
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: HamSandwich on March 28, 2019, 10:45:42 PM
You have audio when the effect is on or off because it’s likely something happened in the delay line. The “dry” signal is split and sent through the delay line through C8, but also passes through the R8. The delayed signal gets mixed in through R29. If you’re gettinf clean signal, that suggest something happened after C8 and before R29. Is your clock still setup right? If you turn the mix all the way up, so you get anything? Can you post voltages? Also, do an audio probe all the way through the delay line, starting with C8 and see where you’re losing it.
Title: Re: ... Need help with debugging an Aquaboy 2016
Post by: Ariosto on March 29, 2019, 05:12:39 PM
You have audio when the effect is on or off because it’s likely something happened in the delay line. The “dry” signal is split and sent through the delay line through C8, but also passes through the R8. The delayed signal gets mixed in through R29. If you’re gettinf clean signal, that suggest something happened after C8 and before R29. Is your clock still setup right? If you turn the mix all the way up, so you get anything? Can you post voltages? Also, do an audio probe all the way through the delay line, starting with C8 and see where you’re losing it.

Well, I measured voltages from five minutes ago. My values have NOTHING in common with the values in the PDF document (Is that due to the 3PRR extra voltage?). And in the IC2 (NE750) I became voltage fluctuations almost in every pin. Or are they caused by the extra Modulation PCB? Here they are:

IC1(4558)                             IC2(NE570)                               IC3(MN3005)                                 IC5(MN3101)

1.  7.43                                 1.  0.01                                     1.  14.79                                        1.  14.16
2.  7.43                                 2.  1.75                                     2.  7.09                                          2.  7.09
3.  7.39                                 3.  1.75                                     3.  Varies 4 - 9                                3.  0
4.  0                                      4.  0                                         4.  Varies 4.41 - 9.20                       4.  7.09
5.  7.39                                 5.  Varies 1.79 - 1.81                 5.  0                                               5.  6.68
6.  7.42                                 6.  1.76                                     6.  7.09                                          6. 7.34
7.  Varies 7.40 - 7.47             7.  Varies 2.91 - 3.04                  7.  4.01                                         7.  7.04
8.  14.85                               8.  1.76                                     8.  0.93                                          8.  0.93
                                            9.  1.76
                                            10.  Varies 3.48 - 4.24
                                            11.  Varies 3.30 - 4.21
                                            12.  Varies 1.82 - 2.04
                                            13.  14.86
                                            14.  Varies 1.63 - 1.75
                                            15.  1.72 - 1.83
                                            16.  0

Audio probe did not made yet. But I insist. Strangest of them all is, the thing WORKED before I boxed it. Anyway I will make the promised and recommended audio probe and will write the results.

Bye,
Ariosto