3pdt stomps - I'm done! alternatives - opto or relay bypass?

[the3secondrule]

I've got back in the last week, 3 or 4 pedals that I've built for friends, all with faulty stomp switches. they're from various sources, Tayda, BLMS, and smallbear among them.

I've had enough and i'm going to make the switch (ba-dum-cha!) to either opto or relay based switching, looking at the pro's and cons of either.
Probably looking at designing my own boards, and most of the relay switching options I've seen have come with pre-progammed micro controllers, and that's not something I'm geared up for yet, so I guess I'm leaning more toward opto's.

I like the Optoshield opto bypass for Rej's STM project, so i'm probably leaning toward something similar to that or the opto-tron - curious about where you guys are sourcing your h1f11s though...

[alanp]

My supervisor at work (Darren Wallace -- loaned him a couple pedals) asked me what my warranty period was.

"Don't have one, but I'll always have a look."

Biggest problem with most any stomp switches are the incredibly loose tolerances for the threads on the bolt and the nut, from my experience.

[selfdestroyer]

I just had this conversation with Rej today and I think Mouser is the best choice when getting more than 100 of them. I just don't trust the 10 for $5 china ones on eBay. I think I am going to move over to the Opti based switching myself. I will be trying a few sources tomorrow at work and see what the best pricing I can get but I am leaning towards Mouser at this point.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/H11F1M/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMugPZL2oX39yI7jG0lGkOJr6M8FlExHaAA%3d

Cody

[the3secondrule]

warrantee period ?

"Don't have one, but I'll always have a look."

I'm about the same, with the caveats: "if you submerged it in beer, or plugged in the wrong power supply, you pay for the parts". had the latter a few times, haven't had the former. yet.

[the3secondrule]

I just had this conversation with Rej today and I think Mouser is the best choice when getting more than 100 of them. I just don't trust the 10 for $5 china ones on eBay. I think I am going to move over to the Opti based switching myself. I will be trying a few sources tomorrow at work and see what the best pricing I can get but I am leaning towards Mouser at this point.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Fairchild-Semiconductor/H11F1M/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMugPZL2oX39yI7jG0lGkOJr6M8FlExHaAA%3d

Cody

Mouser is out for me i think, the minimum shipping to new zealand makes it, uh, uneconomic

[alanp]

Well, you should have hung out for chief solder orang-utan, then.

[micromegas]

I get my H11F1 from a local dealer. You could contact your nearest dealer, they usually have easy acces to those.

Maybe you could pm Paul (Cromesphere). I think it might be a good addition to his shop and make opto-fets something accesible for all the guys in the Pacific (and for us, Paul shipping rate is ridiculously low!).

I've been using Josh's Optotrons for a while and do not see myself going back to 3pdts.
However, I would like to try Rullywow's too, they have a smaller footprint and the TP222G is a little better than the H11F1.

[cooder]

I'm using Josh's finish line and THcustom Ueberswitch, both great IMO.

[PigeonFX]

Guess I have just been lucky, but I don't think I have had a bad 3PDT for over a year 

Had some really cheap ones from Tayda that really didn't like the iron to hot. but other then that I have nothing but love for 3PDT.

Always thought adding opto or relays is just adding more to go wrong.........but I'm so oldschool I'm only just considering it not sacrilege adding a DC socket or LED to a fuzz box! 

[juansolo]

Optotron.

That is all.

[GrindCustoms]

Always thought adding opto or relays is just adding more to go wrong.........

Most of the time, that being 9 out of 10 in my case, pedals that are coming back for repair have electro-mechanicals problems, switch (toggle/stomp), potentiometers, etc...
Other than by using the wrong PSU or submerging the pedal in water (beer), the actual components will never fail, in both case if someone offers any kind of warranty on his builts, that should'nt be covered. So i would'nt be worried about adding more components.

When building on a larger scale than personnal hobby, having pedals out there with the possibility of mechanical failure can make you look flaky about your selection of material on the long term run...

So yeah, my vote goes to alternative switching methods that are not using 3PDTs when building at a larger scale, the reduction in possible hassle is to be seriously considered.

After doing a bit of math... using optoswitching if buying in lots of 100 the components necessary, it will end up costing 4 to 5$ per unit... that is not much more than a quality 3PDT.

With relay bypass, saying you have your own code, burn your MCU, you'll be in a 6 to 9$ range depending of the relay used. Add to that the time used to burn ICs...

'Nyway there will always be that knothead being able to destroy your builts.... 

Rej

[Tremster]

I like this one:
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=16554.0

[juansolo]

What Rej said basically.

4 out of 5 returns that come back to me are old builds with failed 3PDTs in them. The other 1 out of  5 are incorrect power.

3PDTs are shit. Let them out into the real world and they will fail. Sometimes sooner rather than later.

I've must have used 150-200 of the Alpha DPDTs with Optotrons now and not had a single failure or return due to stomp failure. I've had one dead stomp in all that time and it was DOA, so probably a manufacturing error.

Other than cost (as Rej mentions, you will have to buy bulk to keep the costs down), there is no downside to the Optotron and the cost is worth it if you want to build robust pedals.

[raulduke]

Always thought adding opto or relays is just adding more to go wrong.........but I'm so oldschool I'm only just considering it not sacrilege adding a DC socket or LED to a fuzz box! 

Benefit of no LED is that you can stick to the good ol'Carling DPDT I guess. I would also venture that if you need an LED to tell you when your fuzz is on you are doing something wrong 

Relay bypass is great. 1776 effects do a PCB+Micro combo (finish line) that is well worth checking out.

I tend to stick with 3PDT too, for convenience more than anything. I keep meaning to switch over to relay bypass.

The other problem I (and others I would imagine) face is convincing the general public that other bypass schemes are ok.

Any mention of relay based, or even worse optical based, bypass and most of the customers I build for run for the trees 

People want 3PDT as this is what we have all been lead to believe is bestest for toanz.

[PigeonFX]

Most of the time, that being 9 out of 10 in my case, pedals that are coming back for repair have electro-mechanicals problems, switch (toggle/stomp), potentiometers, etc...

I agree with you, but when it comes to repairs I tend to see far more vintage units, where its leaky caps and components drifting well out of tolerance that are effecting the unit far worse then a the scratchy pots that need some contact cleaner.

And its not as if optos/relays are electro-mechanical free options, you still have a mechanical foot switch, even the relays is mechanical.

And then there is the kicker, that most people buying pedals want true bypass in DPDT or 3PDT form......its what they know, and what they trust.

Though I have no doubt they will die out, and be superseded over time.

Benefit of no LED is that you can stick to the good ol'Carling DPDT I guess. I would also venture that if you need an LED to tell you when your fuzz is on you are doing something wrong 

Exactly right, in both the Carling's being top-notch, and your fuzz not working if you need a LED 

The other problem I (and others I would imagine) face is convincing the general public that other bypass schemes are ok.

Any mention of relay based, or even worse optical based, bypass and most of the customers I build for run for the trees 

This is very true, IMHO. I have NEVER been asked to put optical or relay switching in a pedal, Mod or repair, its not even come up in conversation (despite its merits).