Shriveling beans (thread title change)

[m-Kresol]

I'm turning 30 in exactly 1 month. Does that count as old? definetely feels a bit like it. makes you reflect a bit.

I finished HS 11 years ago and my PhD last year. Still very content with my choice to study chemistry. Although it sure is easier to find a job as a chemist than it would be with a degree in law (it's one of the most overrun studies around here), it sure wasn't as easy as everyone told you in the beginning. If I wouldn't have gone for a uni, I'd love to do carpentry. Wood is just so nice to work with

[matmosphere]

I'm turning 30 in exactly 1 month. Does that count as old? definetely feels a bit like it. makes you reflect a bit.

No

[playpunk]

What I learned in undergrad engineering school:  there is (probably) a solution to every problem.  Also, how much alcohol I could consume before it would create immediate trouble. 
(Be adventurous.)

What I learned in graduate engineering school:  No matter how smart I think I am in any particular subject, there will always be someone who is 100 times smarter in the same subject.  Also, undergraduate students will somehow think you have super powers if you can tell them within 5 seconds of looking at their breadboarded circuit that their power supply polarity is reversed.
(Be humble.)

What I learned in law school: Every yes/no question can legitimately be answered, "It depends."  Also, I don't ever want to actually work as a lawyer.
(Be open-minded.)

Lawyer here. Law school was fun, practice is interesting, at least.

[EBK]

Lawyer here. Law school was fun, practice is interesting, at least.

For me, law school was interesting, but my law degree came with embarassing side effects.  Occasionally, the lawyer side of me blurts out something about potential legal liability when discussing fun plans with friends. I don't even realize I'm going to spout legalese until it happens.  A drummer once called me Buzz Killington after I uncontrollably suggested that our cover band shouldn't perform at a neighborhood block party over copyright concerns. 
I'm not well. 

[playpunk]

Lawyer here. Law school was fun, practice is interesting, at least.

For me, law school was interesting, but my law degree came with embarassing side effects.  Occasionally, the lawyer side of me blurts out something about potential legal liability when discussing fun plans with friends. I don't even realize I'm going to spout legalese until it happens.  A drummer once called me Buzz Killington after I uncontrollably suggested that our cover band shouldn't perform at a neighborhood block party over copyright concerns. 
I'm not well. 

Ha. As a litigator, I am constantly trying to reassure people that their *actual* liability is usually negligible. Who would sue your cover band? What would they get from it? Isn't your cover (covered) by the fair use doctrine? Does your cover band even exist as an entity to be sued?

It sounds to me like you're still suffering from law student syndrome: you see liability where none exists. The practice of law is, essentially, commercial. No one wants to spend money on lawyers when there isn't money to be gained at the end of the day. Remember that, always.

[thesmokingman]

I would say that the only fault in the trades vs college debate is that a good number of the people publicly pushing that as a path also aren't politically affiliated with a party that also supports organized labor(unions). and for a tradesman that isn't interested in taking on the risk of small business ownership(more fail than succeed) or the rather nomadic lifestyle associated with chasing big money(contract work tends to kill marriages), organized labor is the option best suited to provide them a stable job with decent wages, benefits, and retirement that are at least on a middle class par with the risk/reward of getting a college education and associated higher level job ... probably a little deeper than most would like to go, but that is my experience working in a trade and around related trades.

[culturejam]

Ha. As a litigator, I am constantly trying to reassure people that their *actual* liability is usually negligible. Who would sue your cover band? What would they get from it? Isn't your cover (covered) by the fair use doctrine? Does your cover band even exist as an entity to be sued?

It sounds to me like you're still suffering from law student syndrome: you see liability where none exists. The practice of law is, essentially, commercial. No one wants to spend money on lawyers when there isn't money to be gained at the end of the day. Remember that, always.

Venues can be sued by ASCAP or BMI if they regularly have cover bands. It's not common, but it has happened. But as you said, follow the money. Nobody is going to sue a dive bar over a cover band, but they might go after a major event organizer with sizable revenue from ticket sales.

I'm not an attorney, but I'm friends with several and always pick their brain. One thing I've learned is that pretty much all heat-of-the-moment utterances of "I'm going to sue you!" are totally bullshit. Most people have no idea how civil lawsuits actually play out or the financial commitment required. They see the ambulance chaser ads that say "we don't get paid unless you do" and assume all litigators work on this model. Definitely NOT true. I got threatened with a lawsuit a few years back and did a ton of research. Either there has to be money on the table or you really gotta dislike somebody (and have a lot of extra money you don't need) to fully pursue a civil suit. And most of them aren't intended to "win" in court, they are merely a club used to encourage some other party to behave differently (so to speak). I should have gone to law school.

[playpunk]

Ha. As a litigator, I am constantly trying to reassure people that their *actual* liability is usually negligible. Who would sue your cover band? What would they get from it? Isn't your cover (covered) by the fair use doctrine? Does your cover band even exist as an entity to be sued?

It sounds to me like you're still suffering from law student syndrome: you see liability where none exists. The practice of law is, essentially, commercial. No one wants to spend money on lawyers when there isn't money to be gained at the end of the day. Remember that, always.

Venues can be sued by ASCAP or BMI if they regularly have cover bands. It's not common, but it has happened. But as you said, follow the money. Nobody is going to sue a dive bar over a cover band, but they might go after a major event organizer with sizable revenue from ticket sales.

I'm not an attorney, but I'm friends with several and always pick their brain. One thing I've learned is that pretty much all heat-of-the-moment utterances of "I'm going to sue you!" are totally bullshit. Most people have no idea how civil lawsuits actually play out or the financial commitment required. They see the ambulance chaser ads that say "we don't get paid unless you do" and assume all litigators work on this model. Definitely NOT true. I got threatened with a lawsuit a few years back and did a ton of research. Either there has to be money on the table or you really gotta dislike somebody (and have a lot of extra money you don't need) to fully pursue a civil suit. And most of them aren't intended to "win" in court, they are merely a club used to encourage some other party to behave differently (so to speak). I should have gone to law school.

It costs between five and ten thousand dollars to get a civil case ready for trial in New York. And then you have to pay experts, etc., and for all the attorney time for a trial. A claim of less than $30,000 is really hard to justify if it has any complexity at all.

[blearyeyes]

THE LAWERS ARE TAKING OVER THE THREAD! LETS sue them!

As I was saying, I've been out of the loop for a couple of years!  I was just 20 now I am turning 66 on Christmas Eve!

Am I the oldest on Madbean's Forum?

[jimilee]

In my experience, clubs don't get sued, they get fined, and then bands like mine don't get to play there anymore unless we have ascap affiliations or dues or something of the sort. I'm assuming they pissed somebody off, otherwise, who has time to go to pissant little clubs and check their ascap BMI Licenses?


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[blearyeyes]

Last time I looked into it (when dinosaurs roamed the Earth) you could get a blanket Lisence for $150 US.

[jimilee]

Last time I looked into it (when dinosaurs roamed the Earth) you could get a blanket Lisence for $150 US.

I don't know, I was rogue for the years that I did it.


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[sjaustin]

I would say that the only fault in the trades vs college debate is that a good number of the people publicly pushing that as a path also aren't politically affiliated with a party that also supports organized labor(unions). and for a tradesman that isn't interested in taking on the risk of small business ownership(more fail than succeed) or the rather nomadic lifestyle associated with chasing big money(contract work tends to kill marriages), organized labor is the option best suited to provide them a stable job with decent wages, benefits, and retirement that are at least on a middle class par with the risk/reward of getting a college education and associated higher level job ... probably a little deeper than most would like to go, but that is my experience working in a trade and around related trades.

Really interesting contribution to the conversation—thanks for sharing!

[peAk]

I am 44

You know you're old when you get injured by going to sleep.

"Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer you get to the end, the faster it goes"