Author Topic: Worth switching op amps on a Klon Klone?  (Read 816 times)

gordo

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Re: Worth switching op amps on a Klon Klone?
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2019, 07:54:27 PM »
Dogfish, what if you really DO hear something different?  Never hurts to try.  Seriously.  Small investment and klons are the stuff myths are made of, so gives you piece of mind either way.

dogfish

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Re: Worth switching op amps on a Klon Klone?
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2019, 08:33:43 PM »
We shall see. I actually work at a bass shop and hear enough builds that I really can hear the subtlety of some wood combos. I heard an ash body, roasted maple neck, ebony fingerboard J the other day that was really unique. I didnít know exactly what it was when I started playing it but could hear the combo right away... it itís not op amps so we shall see.

alanp

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Re: Worth switching op amps on a Klon Klone?
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2019, 01:54:05 AM »
Dogfish, keep an eye out for any Black Maire wood -- it's a New Zealand native that is hard enough for fretboards.
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dogfish

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Re: Worth switching op amps on a Klon Klone?
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2019, 06:22:36 AM »
We did build a J5 with an Aussie red gum top recently:

https://www.sadowsky.com/product/8258-standard-5-string-j-bass/

alanp

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Re: Worth switching op amps on a Klon Klone?
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2019, 06:30:42 AM »
Nice! Well, let me know if you do pick up any New Zealand timber, then :)

Rimu is beautiful as furniture -- I have a cab for my JCM800 done in rimu. Totara has been used as flooring, as it's pretty tough. Kauri has also been used for flooring, but it's wasting the wood to do that. Matai was a very popular flooring material. Most of these are reclaimed timber these days -- you cannot cut down native trees without a really good reason.

Black Maire is apparently the only native NZ timber that can hold a machined thread, if that helps any. It's popular as firewood, as it takes a long time for a log to burn down, and gives off a lot of heat.
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lars

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Re: Worth switching op amps on a Klon Klone?
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2019, 03:08:53 PM »
I try not to let myself get dragged into component debates but ...
Your breakdown of op amps was very good.
The thing I've noticed on a regular basis is that when unbiased professionals run tests on "Hi-Fi" op amps, they always come to the same results:  the lowly NE5532 is by far the best cost to sound quality chip available. Nothing in it's price range can match it, and spending 10x the price of a 5532 does not get you 10x better results. As far as op amps in overdrive/distortion pedals, anything other than a 741, 1458, LM308, or 4558 is pretty much overkill and will give you less of what you want. IMHO, TL072's or better give you everything that people complain about in solid state equipment in the first place...sterile "perfect" clean sound. Yes, uber high quality op amps can be beneficial in a delay, chorus, or flanger pedal where you don't want to add any noise...but there's really no reason to go above and beyond the 5532 in those cases. And in many pedal designs, just throwing a 5532 in place of say a 4558 will often add more noise because it wasn't designed for a 5532 or burr-brown super chip.
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mojah63

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Re: Worth switching op amps on a Klon Klone?
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2019, 03:10:36 PM »
I've found BJT input opamps sound different (usually warmer) to FET opamps, Slew rate differences can effect things too. There's just different shades of grey to component selection within working reason. Some don't hear any differences at all.. I do..

pickdropper

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Re: Worth switching op amps on a Klon Klone?
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2019, 06:58:27 PM »
I try not to let myself get dragged into component debates but ...
Your breakdown of op amps was very good.
The thing I've noticed on a regular basis is that when unbiased professionals run tests on "Hi-Fi" op amps, they always come to the same results:  the lowly NE5532 is by far the best cost to sound quality chip available. Nothing in it's price range can match it, and spending 10x the price of a 5532 does not get you 10x better results. As far as op amps in overdrive/distortion pedals, anything other than a 741, 1458, LM308, or 4558 is pretty much overkill and will give you less of what you want. IMHO, TL072's or better give you everything that people complain about in solid state equipment in the first place...sterile "perfect" clean sound. Yes, uber high quality op amps can be beneficial in a delay, chorus, or flanger pedal where you don't want to add any noise...but there's really no reason to go above and beyond the 5532 in those cases. And in many pedal designs, just throwing a 5532 in place of say a 4558 will often add more noise because it wasn't designed for a 5532 or burr-brown super chip.

Do you have links to any of the articles where the audio professionals discuss the NE5532 in that context?  I'm honestly curious to read that.  I've used a lot of pricier opamps in audio contexts and they are often unnecessary, but there are a lot of considerations besides bandwidth (where chips such as the 741 are obviously terrible).
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somnif

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Re: Worth switching op amps on a Klon Klone?
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2019, 07:08:55 PM »
Do you have links to any of the articles where the audio professionals discuss the NE5532 in that context?  I'm honestly curious to read that.  I've used a lot of pricier opamps in audio contexts and they are often unnecessary, but there are a lot of considerations besides bandwidth (where chips such as the 741 are obviously terrible).

The obvious answer is go discrete! Just ludicrously inflate the part count and target that hardcore cork sniffer crowd, and laugh at every invoice!

dogfish

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Re: Worth switching op amps on a Klon Klone?
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2019, 08:00:59 AM »
Dogfish, what if you really DO hear something different?  Never hurts to try.  Seriously.  Small investment and klons are the stuff myths are made of, so gives you piece of mind either way.

I did do the Burr Brown opamp switch last night. Keep in mind that I'm playing on bass, so for me, a smoother, fuller clipping is optimal.

The boost sounded a little clearer and better to me... more hi-fi. Though from reading this thread, that sounds almost impossible technically, so I'll chalk that one up to confirmation bias.

However, when I turned the knob towards clipping, it was a smoother, less bee-buzzy clip than with the TL072. That sounded "better" to me in the context of what I'm looking for for bass which is a light fuzz/clip with some prounounced mids to cut through a mix but still retain some lows. With the Burr Browns, the clip was closer to that. To my ears, with the TL072, it just went straight into bee-buzzy territory right away. I'm pretty sure that this was not confirmation bias as I switched them in and out a few times and anytime I had a TL072 in the circuit, the clipping was harsher.

There ya go...