I happen to have an Ibanez CS9 that I would like to fully ressurect. The problem is that someone CUT OUT the DC jack from the PCB and it is gone forever :'(
I was thinking about cobbling it together to just run on battery power but, I dont work that way. Now, what I am thinking is that I would like to fully rebuild the PCB with the same layout, size, etc. as a drop in.
PROBLEM: I have no idea how to use any of the PCB layout programs! :-X
Hoping some kind soul here that is familiar with these programs could do an etchable layout for me.
Any takers? ;D I could provide pics of the trace and component sides of course...
If you scanned the PCB flat, you could redraw a red layer over the original traces in an image program (think even paint'd do) then delete the original image file, convert those traces to black and then resize it accordingly.
Should work i'd think without having to learn any layout programs.
Oh and of course draw back in the cut out part.
Quote from: Scruffie on March 05, 2014, 04:29:05 PM
If you scanned the PCB flat, you could redraw a red layer over the original traces in an image program (think even paint'd do) then delete the original image file, convert those traces to black and then resize it accordingly.
Should work i'd think without having to learn any layout programs.
Oh and of course draw back in the cut out part.
I get what you are saying Scruffie however, I am not that savvy with imaging programs. I can barely get on here :-[
Sounds like a good plan to me!
It'll work great if you are doing toner transfer but mind the orientation if you do photoresist method... ask me how I know... ::)
If you need more help, you can always send me a message.
Jacob
Quote from: Scruffie on March 05, 2014, 04:29:05 PM
If you scanned the PCB flat, you could redraw a red layer over the original traces in an image program (think even paint'd do) then delete the original image file, convert those traces to black and then resize it accordingly.
Should work i'd think without having to learn any layout programs.
Oh and of course draw back in the cut out part.
This is pretty much what i do with "locked" pdf layouts i want to alter and... Inkscape is terrific, free tool to use. Seemed pretty intuitive to get up and running as well.
dave
If you've got a verified schematic of the board, I don't mind attempting a layout for you.
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Quote from: stevie1556 on March 06, 2014, 12:17:12 AM
If you've got a verified schematic of the board, I don't mind attempting a layout for you.
Thanks for the offer stevie!!!!!
I have the schematic from the factory however, what I need is for the PCB to be an exact replica of the original. It has to fit inside the original Ibanez CS9 pedal casing. Lots of stand up resistors and tightly packed components.
If you think you would be up for it, let me know and I will provide links to the schematic as well as pics of both sides of the PCB and measurements.
Cheers! ;D
Replied to your PM. I can't guarantee I'll be able to do it, but I'll give it a good try :)
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If you want to re etch the board check out how chromesphere does it theres a vid on his channel it helped me alot!
Aran
Hey Stevie...
Sent you several PMs. Have received no replies. Wondering if you ever got the files I sent. Or, if you even still want to attempt the layout. :-\
Don't know if your PMs are full so if you could reply here I would appreciate it so I know if I should look elsewhere.
Thanks bro!
OK... Well....
Unfortunately, I am still looking for some help with this. Was hoping to be building on this but... looks like 2 weeks were wasted. Can any one of you layout wizards help me out?
I can provide a factory schematic, good pics of the PCB, and any other info that might be helpful. I just don't have the time to learn a program and attempt layout duplication right now. :-\
Hey Lackey,
I totally understand your wanting to get this back to original and your intentions. I would have to say that this is a most complex layout and while not impossible to duplicate with any PCB cad program...it's going to be very tough to do exactly like the original. Not to mention getting the layout correct, the effect working as it should, using the original chips (desoldering) without damage, and so on.
Reasons:
1) The effect itself...is a chorus and therefore one of the more complicated analog circuits
2) The standing resistors add additional complexity to the layout
3) The trim pots used are the older vertical type...not readily found
4) PCB mounted jacks add additional complexity...especially with getting the distances correct to the enclosure for proper mounting
5) Transplanting those vintage ICs may be tough to do with the risk of damaging them
6) Designing a PCB layout is tricky enough...doing an exact duplicate of an existing layout makes it VERY tricky. Lots of measuring for every hole, every component...etc.
As previously suggested, it would be far easier and quicker to scan the bottom of the board and make a layout for etching. It looks to be a single sided board.
Quote from: rullywowr on March 18, 2014, 10:55:10 PM
As previously suggested, it would be far easier and quicker to scan the bottom of the board and make a layout for etching. It looks to be a single sided board.
I wouldn't mind trying this however... could you link me to the tutorial about it. I looked but I could not find it.
As for the complexity.... I have done FAR... FAR more complex builds than this. Also, I do not plan on "transplanting" all of the components. Probably just the transistors and stand-up trimmers. All the rest I can replace with equivalent parts.
Also, the jacks and pots are all off-board mounted. Only the DC jack is board mounted (and was cut away from the PCB which is why I want to re-do it)
Thanks!
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on March 19, 2014, 12:10:37 AM
Quote from: rullywowr on March 18, 2014, 10:55:10 PM
As previously suggested, it would be far easier and quicker to scan the bottom of the board and make a layout for etching. It looks to be a single sided board.
I wouldn't mind trying this however... could you link me to the tutorial about it. I looked but I could not find it.
As for the complexity.... I have done FAR... FAR more complex builds than this. Also, I do not plan on "transplanting" all of the components. Probably just the transistors and stand-up trimmers. All the rest I can replace with equivalent parts.
Also, the jacks and pots are all off-board mounted. Only the DC jack is board mounted (and was cut away from the PCB which is why I want to re-do it)
Thanks!
Go to a place with a high resolution scanner. Kinkos might have one. You need 600dpi or better.
Put the PCB copper side down onto the scanner.
Take the file home and put it in Photoshop, GIMP, or any other image editing program.
Convert to black and white.
The PCB should be a flat color. Select a bucket tool and dump white into it. Or, if the traces look particularly pale, dump black into it. Use the contrast and brightness to get the traces as close to a flat color as possible (you want the opposite of whatever you converted the PCB color to). Use a bucket tool on that now to fill it in as much as possible. The point is to get the traces the opposite color of the PCB material.
Now comes the time consuming part. There are going to be imperfect spots, places where the bucket tool didn't fill in. You have to go through with a pencil or paintbrush tool and smooth out all the traces.
Now you can etch the PCB. Just make the image whatever polarity it needs to be.
It will probably take about 3 hours.
Gimp is great. I cannot believe it's free. I use it for loads of stuff and there is no shortage if info out there. Oh, and good luck with the project!
Quote from: midwayfair on March 19, 2014, 01:06:49 AM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on March 19, 2014, 12:10:37 AM
Quote from: rullywowr on March 18, 2014, 10:55:10 PM
As previously suggested, it would be far easier and quicker to scan the bottom of the board and make a layout for etching. It looks to be a single sided board.
I wouldn't mind trying this however... could you link me to the tutorial about it. I looked but I could not find it.
As for the complexity.... I have done FAR... FAR more complex builds than this. Also, I do not plan on "transplanting" all of the components. Probably just the transistors and stand-up trimmers. All the rest I can replace with equivalent parts.
Also, the jacks and pots are all off-board mounted. Only the DC jack is board mounted (and was cut away from the PCB which is why I want to re-do it)
Thanks!
Go to a place with a high resolution scanner. Kinkos might have one. You need 600dpi or better.
Put the PCB copper side down onto the scanner.
Take the file home and put it in Photoshop, GIMP, or any other image editing program.
Convert to black and white.
The PCB should be a flat color. Select a bucket tool and dump white into it. Or, if the traces look particularly pale, dump black into it. Use the contrast and brightness to get the traces as close to a flat color as possible (you want the opposite of whatever you converted the PCB color to). Use a bucket tool on that now to fill it in as much as possible. The point is to get the traces the opposite color of the PCB material.
Now comes the time consuming part. There are going to be imperfect spots, places where the bucket tool didn't fill in. You have to go through with a pencil or paintbrush tool and smooth out all the traces.
Now you can etch the PCB. Just make the image whatever polarity it needs to be.
It will probably take about 3 hours.
for what its worth this is how the original Doppelganger ready-to-print was made, however, I did the touching up in MS paint! cos i am a loser and cant learn good softwares (!)
Just seen your PMs and replied to them. Had a fee problems at home and haven't been online, I explained in the PM. Nearly completed the layout for you, but due to the problems, I haven't managed to finish it just yet.
Sent from my thumbs using Tapatalk!
Quote from: stevie1556 on March 19, 2014, 10:48:51 PM
Just seen your PMs and replied to them. Had a fee problems at home and haven't been online, I explained in the PM. Nearly completed the layout for you, but due to the problems, I haven't managed to finish it just yet.
Sent from my thumbs using Tapatalk!
Read the PMs Stevie and let me be the first to openly say that I apologize :-X
I honestly figured you saw the PCB and decided to bail. Not once thinking that issues may have come up!
Cannot wait to see what you come up with and good luck taking care of business and dealing with the other stuff ;)
Try KiCad. It's free and fairly easy to use even for beginners. Watch some YouTube tutorials how to use the program.
Quote from: stevie1556 on March 19, 2014, 10:48:51 PM
Just seen your PMs and replied to them. Had a fee problems at home and haven't been online, I explained in the PM. Nearly completed the layout for you, but due to the problems, I haven't managed to finish it just yet.
Sent from my thumbs using Tapatalk!
Hey Stevie,
Any updates? ;)
Hope all is well!
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on March 19, 2014, 10:59:04 PM
Read the PMs Stevie and let me be the first to openly say that I apologize :-X
I honestly figured you saw the PCB and decided to bail. Not once thinking that issues may have come up!
Cannot wait to see what you come up with and good luck taking care of business and dealing with the other stuff ;)
No need to apolgise bud, but who the hell needs family. Give me a house in the middle of no where, a couple of dogs, and no contact with the outside would, and I'll be extremely happy at the moment! To top it off, I've just had some laptop problems, and I figured the easiest way was to reformat the whole thing, but it's all running smoothly now and should be done in the next few days, hopefully :)
Hey Steve...
Any news? ???
Oooooookay.
I guess thats a NO then.... :-\
OK. So it looks like I am back to trying to find someone to attempt a layout for me :-\
I hope all is OK with stevie as I have not heard anything from you in a few weeks.
Anyone else interested in giving it a go?
Im out of town till tomorrow night due to easter family festivities but do shoot me a pm... Maybe I can help you out somehow...
sent from my mobile device
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on April 18, 2014, 09:18:25 PM
OK. So it looks like I am back to trying to find someone to attempt a layout for me :-\
Look man you can easily do this yourself. What is stopping you really?
Quote from: LaceSensor on April 19, 2014, 12:04:56 PM
Look man you can easily do this yourself. What is stopping you really?
In all honesty... I need to find someone who knows the software and can do it in somewhat of a hurry now. Wasting a month being told that it would be done and then not getting feedback or responses has now given me about 2 weeks to get this done and I do not have the time (now) to learn a program and do the job!
Bottom line is that I am in a bind now that the time was wasted and I can either find someone with experience to do it OR I can tell my nephew that I cant deliver :-\
I guess this will be a lesson in the future to just do it myself. ::)
There is that saying... If you want it done right, you do it yourself.
dave
I bet if you go and scan the PCB and put it up here, one of the guys would do the software work :)
Quote from: fixxe on April 19, 2014, 03:16:42 PM
I bet if you go and scan the PCB and put it up here, one of the guys would do the software work :)
+1
There's an image of the bottom of the pcb in link below.
I spent about 2 min on google. :)
http://www.pedalarea.com/choruses.htm
You could have an etch able image in about 20 min if you know an image program, maybe 3-4 hours if you don't and need to each some YouTube. The hardest thing will be scaling appropriately. The second post is the way I'd do it if in a hurry.
Good luck!
Btw I'd do it for you but I'm away and only have my iphone.
I'm familiar with Eagle, and I think I can do what you want, given the proper information. This would be:
-A correct schematic
-Very good pics of both sides of the board
-A date when you need this to be done
The last one is quite important, as I can not start right away, next tuesday at the latest. Let me know if you're interested.
Paul
A bit of background,
The PCB powerjack was CUT OUT of the PCB by a tall brained moron. What he's looking for is a replacement PCB that matches the current one, with a pcb mounted powerjack on it, and transplant the majority of the components to the new board. So a scan of the trace side(it's a single sided board) and then filling in the traces, to make an etchable board is what's needed here.
For those not getting the tall brained moron comment...
Quote from: wgc on April 19, 2014, 04:48:05 PM
There's an image of the bottom of the pcb in link below.
I spent about 2 min on google. :)
http://www.pedalarea.com/choruses.htm
You could have an etch able image in about 20 min if you know an image program, maybe 3-4 hours if you don't and need to each some YouTube. The hardest thing will be scaling appropriately. The second post is the way I'd do it if in a hurry.
Good luck!
the photo seems to be taken at a slight angle, don't know if this would be a problem. but I think the different lighting would definitely be a pain in the ass. if there's a photo it should be well and evenly lit and taken without a flash.
also, like you said, the dimensions need to be given.
This is what I e-mailed to Greg weeks ago:
QuoteI need something way more exact than you can give me with a handheld camera. You need to remove the PCB from the enclosure, put it traces-down on a scanner, and send me that. It's the only way to ensure that there is no variation in placement and sizing.
Greg, I don't mean to air any dirty laundry, but you never sent the scans that you told me you'd send, and that was over a month ago. I honestly don't know if I'd have the time for it now, but if you post them here, maybe someone can take up the project. Get 600 dpi color scans.
EDIT: Actually, I just tried to boot up Photoshop and our copy isn't functioning anymore for some reason. I think it's "obtainable" somewhere, though ...
Quote from: fixxe on April 19, 2014, 05:50:28 PM
Quote from: wgc on April 19, 2014, 04:48:05 PM
There's an image of the bottom of the pcb in link below.
I spent about 2 min on google. :)
http://www.pedalarea.com/choruses.htm
You could have an etch able image in about 20 min if you know an image program, maybe 3-4 hours if you don't and need to each some YouTube. The hardest thing will be scaling appropriately. The second post is the way I'd do it if in a hurry.
Good luck!
the photo seems to be taken at a slight angle, don't know if this would be a problem. but I think the different lighting would definitely be a pain in the ass. if there's a photo it should be well and evenly lit and taken without a flash.
also, like you said, the dimensions need to be given.
Agree on all points but it is workable if you're in a hurry. There's enough contrast between trace and board that the lighting is workable. Also ps perspective tool can help with the slight angle though I doubt it will actually be an issue. The biggest thing is the scale. Ms paint probably can't help, gimp might squeak by, but ps shouldn't have too much trouble.
My point is that there's lots of help available, though there are probably some minor comprimises no matter how it's done.
One other thought is that it shouldn't be hard to solder wires to the traces and get the original pcb working?
Quote from: midwayfair on April 19, 2014, 06:27:24 PM
Greg, I don't mean to air any dirty laundry, but you never sent the scans that you told me you'd send, and that was over a month ago.
I remember Jon. The reason why I did not send them off to you was because I was told that the project was under way and under control.
If I had known that a month later I would still have no response from said person, I would have sent them.
I will try to get a scan of the PCB and put it up on here soon!
Thanks to everyone for the offers and advice ;)
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on April 19, 2014, 10:11:55 PM
Quote from: midwayfair on April 19, 2014, 06:27:24 PM
Greg, I don't mean to air any dirty laundry, but you never sent the scans that you told me you'd send, and that was over a month ago.
I remember Jon. The reason why I did not send them off to you was because I was told that the project was under way and under control.
If I had known that a month later I would still have no response from said person, I would have sent them.
Are you really calling someone out for trying to help you? ???
Quote from: Scruffie on April 19, 2014, 10:17:04 PM
Are you really calling someone out for trying to help you? ???
I'm not calling anyone out. I am doing two things:
#1 Trying to see if someone can help me with this...
#2 Speaking the truth about how I came to this point.
I do not want to get into it here any further than I have. Now, I appreciate the many offers to help with this and I am grateful however, if anyone has an issue with the way I am approaching this then I am more than happy to field a PM and explain the story ;)
Pm'd