I'm still working on this but will have something up by tonight. I made a couple last minute changes on the BOM to improve the input/output sections, so that took a bit of time today in the workshop. The delays are sounding great! I know people are going to dig them.
I will update here once I start posting the docs.
I also plan on doing a full pictorial type tutorial on building the ZPSDX. Considering the complexity I think it would be helpful. That will happen as the week goes on. Lastly, I will get demos done for the guys and up on youTube.
Can't wait to hear those.How complex is the sdx version;does
it need biasing tweaking?
very excited for this one. i ordered a pair of the sdx boards.
Quote from: garfo on January 23, 2013, 09:46:48 PM
Can't wait to hear those.How complex is the sdx version;does
it need biasing tweaking?
I can't see any trimpots from here.... http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/images/slideshow/ZPSDX.jpg
Have I mentioned how stoked I am? I'm sure if Brian looks at his site's traffic, he'll see a billion hits an hour from a few isolated IP addresses... :) (work and home)
Well, let's wait to hear the veredict on how hard it is.Being hard actually makes it even more fun to build :)))
Quote from: soldersqueeze on January 23, 2013, 11:06:33 PM
Quote from: garfo on January 23, 2013, 09:46:48 PM
Can't wait to hear those.How complex is the sdx version;does
it need biasing tweaking?
I can't see any trimpots from here.... http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/images/slideshow/ZPSDX.jpg
I cannot wait to build this pedal, ordered the sdx board and really going to take my time on this one.
Thanks Brian!
I've been debating if I should put it in a BB size box, or if I should really do this lovely circuit justice and put in a bigger box was some extra cool artwork...
I've been waiting a long time for this pedal - I think we can all agree to wait a little bit more for the documentation!
Just saw the document! Thanks MB! So for the Micro Zero Point, the Depth mod. With the depth all the way down, will you hear any modulation in its stock form?
It would be great to use the Depth mod, but being able to "turn off modulation" by dialing down the Depth pot.
Quote from: kinski on January 24, 2013, 04:03:13 PM
Just saw the document! Thanks MB! So for the Micro Zero Point, the Depth mod. With the depth all the way down, will you hear any modulation in its stock form?
It would be great to use the Depth mod, but being able to "turn off modulation" by dialing down the Depth pot.
Where did you find the documentation? I still can't get it on the project page.
-P
Your browser probably has the page cached. Try bringing it up in a different browser or doing a forced reload.
Quote from: kinski on January 24, 2013, 04:03:13 PM
Just saw the document! Thanks MB! So for the Micro Zero Point, the Depth mod. With the depth all the way down, will you hear any modulation in its stock form?
It would be great to use the Depth mod, but being able to "turn off modulation" by dialing down the Depth pot.
If you use a 1M pot for the Depth and a sufficiently large enough value for R19, the modulation will be pretty negligible at the minimum setting. I would use probably 220k or more for R19 in that case. Maybe 470k.
The "DD" doc is up, too. And please remember to refresh the page to see the link.
I will definitely have to pick one of these up
once i finish my current backlog of unfinished pedals.
I leaning toward the Micro right now, but I'm still waiting to see the Doc for the SDX.
Note: I'm no longer a lurker woohoo.
Woohoo! Thanks!
I still dont see SDX documentation. What size enclosure will it fit?
This is the first tine i hear about multi layer caps.can anyone ine show me how they look like.i dont thunk i can get them from banzai in eutope.
The Deluxe will fit a BB size box, per the chart on page 3 of the Zero Point Double Delay project notes.
Quote from: garfo on January 24, 2013, 06:25:40 PM
This is the first tine i hear about multi layer caps.can anyone ine show me how they look like.i dont thunk i can get them from banzai in eutope.
they also go by the name "monolithic" caps if I'm not mistaken. most of them look about like this
(https://content.solarbotics.com/products/photos/50cdf1b20de6f4669f61408e3afb633e/lrg/cp01uf.jpg)
You want the C0G NP0 variety. But, I can't find any in 1µF. I've checked Mouser, Avnet, and Digi-Key. Anyone know where to get these?
Here are some 1uF:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=FK24X7R1E105Kvirtualkey52130000virtualkey810-FK24X7R1E105K
And more:
http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Ceramic-Capacitors/Multilayer-Ceramic-Capacitors-MLCC-Leaded/_/N-4gzxj?P=1z0wrj5Z1z0x565Z1z0x1hvZ1z0z7l5
Those are the X7R dielectrics. But, I now see that they only make the C0G's up to 0.1µF. Hmm, I think I will try the MKS02 in the 1µF position too. Although Mouser's price on the 1.0µF WIMA's is nuts.
Quote from: RobA on January 24, 2013, 07:33:46 PM
You want the C0G NP0 variety. But, I can't find any in 1µF. I've checked Mouser, Avnet, and Digi-Key. Anyone know where to get these?
I don't think they make C0G/NP0 MLCC caps that are greater than about .1uF.
Here's a good chart quickly covering tradeoffs between different types of caps:
http://www.holystonecaps.com/PDF/TechNotes/200712181125470.Capdielectriccomp3.pdf
also here, I think: http://www.taydaelectronics.com/capacitors/monolithic-ceramic-capacitor/1uf-50v-multilayer-ceramic-capacitor.html
edit: I actually have some of those caps from tayda in front of me now. The lead spacing is 5mm but they are bowed out just like in the pic. All you'd have to do is straighten them and they'd work fine for 2.5mm. Assuming they are still selling the same caps, of course.
MLCCs in Europe? I've found nothing on Musikding and Banzai
Quote from: Haberdasher on January 24, 2013, 08:17:37 PM
also here, I think: http://www.taydaelectronics.com/capacitors/monolithic-ceramic-capacitor/1uf-50v-multilayer-ceramic-capacitor.html
edit: I actually have some of those caps from tayda in front of me now. The lead spacing is 5mm but they are bowed out just like in the pic. All you'd have to do is straighten them and they'd work fine for 2.5mm. Assuming they are still selling the same caps, of course.
I get these from Tayda all the time.
They carry two different types, one with 2.5mm bowed legs and one with 5mm. It's impossible to know which kind you will get on any given day. Straightening the leads without breaking the cap is surprisingly hard. The material is very brittle.
Also, their 100nF monolithics are always 5mm lead spacing, so you'd need to get them through somewhere like mouser regardless.
Mouser's not horrible and the ZP Mini requires 1/8Wq resistors. I've got the parts for three builds of it plus more in my cart right now and it's under $13, plus whatever first class shipping is ($4 at most?).
Quote from: Peteyboy on January 24, 2013, 08:15:14 PM
Quote from: RobA on January 24, 2013, 07:33:46 PM
You want the C0G NP0 variety. But, I can't find any in 1µF. I've checked Mouser, Avnet, and Digi-Key. Anyone know where to get these?
I don't think they make C0G/NP0 MLCC caps that are greater than about .1uF.
Here's a good chart quickly covering tradeoffs between different types of caps:
http://www.holystonecaps.com/PDF/TechNotes/200712181125470.Capdielectriccomp3.pdf
You are right about the limitation to 0.1µF for the C0G caps. I hadn't noticed this before. Oh well. There are some good articles out there about the distortion levels from various dielectric materials for the MLCC's. Places like Wolfson, Analog devices, etc. generally advise against using anything but C0G in the signal path. But, that's not going to work for the 1µF caps.
I'd seriously look into using the WIMA MKS02's in these 1090A builds. In Europe, Banzai has them for reasonable prices. Mouser has most values for OK prices, put the $2 apiece for the 1µF is a bit much.
Here's an article that give measurements,
http://www.edn.com/contents/images/6430345.pdf
I use the XR7 1uFs often and have never had a bad result with them. Actually, I did a Klon build using similar MLCC caps and it was one of the best sounding I've built....for purely anecdotal evidence of course.
Also, remember the 2.5mm requirement in only for four of the caps on the Micro build, and none of them are 1uF. It's explained in the doc.
Also, you can easily substitute a mini Lelon 1uF electrolytic or a 16v Tantalum for the 1uFs in the signal path if you like. These are about the same size and will fit no problem.
All documentation has been uploaded. Let me know if anything is amiss.
Quote from: njkke on January 24, 2013, 08:27:49 PM
MLCCs in Europe? I've found nothing on Musikding and Banzai
In Banzai would be Blocking capacitors I guess.I buy them form one of those too.
Quote from: madbean on January 24, 2013, 09:06:05 PM
[...]
Also, remember the 2.5mm requirement in only for four of the caps on the Micro build, and none of them are 1uF. It's explained in the doc.
Yeah, I was thinking more of the width on the 1µF. I was considering stretching the leads on the little film caps to fit. But, I think there might just be room to fit the 50V 5mm guys in there. I'll see when the board gets here.
BTW, I just looked at the docs for the SDX. It looks like that one is going to be fun.
Reg is missing from BOM and mouser nut link is bad. On the SDX ;)
True story!!!it's the same as in the ZDD version, right???
Quote from: murdog47 on January 24, 2013, 10:07:51 PM
Reg is missing from BOM and mouser nut link is bad. On the SDX ;)
Quote from: madbean on January 24, 2013, 09:17:50 PM
All documentation has been uploaded. Let me know if anything is amiss.
Yes, there seems to have been a major error: where is the included documentation to nominate you, Brian, for the Nobel Prize?
Quote from: garfo on January 24, 2013, 10:33:22 PM
True story!!!it's the same as in the ZDD version, right???
Quote from: murdog47 on January 24, 2013, 10:07:51 PM
Reg is missing from BOM and mouser nut link is bad. On the SDX ;)
78L05, tracked it down on the schematic.
Question: are C11 and C22 on the SDX tantalum for any specific reason? Would a mini electrolytic work as well?
Quote from: madbean on January 23, 2013, 09:05:42 PM
I'm still working on this but will have something up by tonight. I made a couple last minute changes on the BOM to improve the input/output sections, so that took a bit of time today in the workshop. The delays are sounding great! I know people are going to dig them.
I will update here once I start posting the docs.
I also plan on doing a full pictorial type tutorial on building the ZPSDX. Considering the complexity I think it would be helpful. That will happen as the week goes on. Lastly, I will get demos done for the guys and up on youTube.
Hey Brian, I seem to remember you saying the zero point could be wired for tails. Are you including a how to in the full pictorial doc for the SDX that you plan on releasing?
Quote from: lincolnic on January 25, 2013, 05:52:45 AM
Question: are C11 and C22 on the SDX tantalum for any specific reason? Would a mini electrolytic work as well?
I can't answer why tantalum specifically on this design, but in general power supply filtering uses three types of capacitors for their specific characteristics at different frequencies of noise and signal. It's common to see spec sheets and application notes call for large electrolytics near the supply with midrange tantalum (2-10µF) followed by smaller ceramics (~100nF) near the individual chips' power supply legs. The tantalums usually have lower ESL and ESR than electrolytics, so they can respond better to higher frequency needs in the power supply. But, if you want to avoid using tantalum caps, there are newer electrolytics that do the job at least as well. I did some experiments a bit ago looking at how various caps worked in charge pumps and found that both the Nichicon PS series and Panasonic FR series caps worked better (had less voltage loss and noise) than tantalum caps . The Nichicon PS series are pretty small in size, not tiny, but they are small.
So, you can replace tantalums with electrolytic caps, but you do need to be careful about which electrolytics you use.
The datasheets recommends tantalum for the +5v filtering and the actual space on the PCB allotted to them is quite small so I do recommend them in this case. But, it is not a must. I've used electrolytic many times for filtering the PT2399.
Stomptown - I will put the Tails mod in the Mod section. I decided against it on the PCB for space reasons. But, the mod is super simple and can be put together on a bit of vero in 5 minutes. I'll do that later today.
Ei murdog,i was comparing the regs on sdx and sea urchin and first uses78l05, and the second 7805.Do you know if they do the same job?thank you in advance :)
Quote from: murdog47 on January 25, 2013, 03:26:43 AM
Quote from: garfo on January 24, 2013, 10:33:22 PM
True story!!!it's the same as in the ZDD version, right???
Quote from: murdog47 on January 24, 2013, 10:07:51 PM
Reg is missing from BOM and mouser nut link is bad. On the SDX ;)
78L05, tracked it down on the schematic.
Thanks for the info, guys.
Quote from: garfo on January 25, 2013, 06:01:42 PM
Ei murdog,i was comparing the regs on sdx and sea urchin and first uses78l05, and the second 7805.Do you know if they do the same job?thank you in advance :)Quote from: murdog47 on January 25, 2013, 03:26:43 AM
I believe the 7805 and 78L05 need to be turned 180 degrees to replace each other. I will double check and get back to you :)
Should be 78L05 for everything. That's the regulator in a TO-92 package.
I've updated the ZPSDX doc to show the regulator in the BOM and also fixed the one broken link.
Oh thanks Brian, I've just realized that I have purchased he 7805 for my Sea Urchin because that's what comes on SU BOM.So, 78L05 for both of them.Great, thank you vey much
Quote from: madbean on January 25, 2013, 06:33:07 PM
Should be 78L05 for everything. That's the regulator in a TO-92 package.
Looking at the data sheets, if you already have 7805 laying around you will need to turn it 180 degrees. On the 7805 the leads are 1.Input 2.Ground 3.Output. The 78L05 is 1.Output 2.Ground 3.Input
Like Brian said the 78L05 comes in the TO-92 package. That's what I'd use just for size purposes.
Yeah, my bad. I think the Eagle part was labeled that way and I forget to change it to 78L05 sometimes. I need to fix that in Eagle!
I just got my board in for the SDX and this will be the biggest build I have ever tackled.
I want to just thank Brian for his hard work here: BRAVO!
Speed of delivery was amazing! Just a few days delivery to Texas 8)
Now for compenents, I want amoung the best you can find and what I plan on ordering are xicon metal film resistors and Kemet 5mm metal film box caps plus the tantalums that are needed. For the Elecro's I am not sure between some Vishay's, Lelon's or Nichicon's but if some of you pro's out there can recommend optimal brands of passives for the cleanest build... would be great!
( I am measuring the lead spacings for sure so I don't get the wrong size passives ! )
As stated a 1590BB can be a tight fit but doable!
Just keep looking til you find the most expensive, im pretty sure they'd be the best! ;D
I'm going to build mine with the cheapest components, that way when it sounds amazing the credit goes to Mad Bean and my fingers.
Quote from: jimilee on January 26, 2013, 06:57:31 PM
Just keep looking til you find the most expensive, im pretty sure they'd be the best! ;D
LOL I am not getting the most expensive, just quality - I am of the Garbage in Garbage out mindset
8)
Buying the most expensive stuff for an SDX would add up fast. no thanks
and I know your only teasing jimilee :P
;D I'm gonna have to build one if these too, I got about 5 in front of it though
Just got my board in the mail. Is there a demo video on this one?
There will be very soon (within the next few days). For all three of the Zero Points.
Quote from: jalmonsalmon on January 26, 2013, 06:52:04 PM
I just got my board in for the SDX and this will be the biggest build I have ever tackled.
I want to just thank Brian for his hard work here: BRAVO!
Speed of delivery was amazing! Just a few days delivery to Texas 8)
Now for compenents, I want amoung the best you can find and what I plan on ordering are xicon metal film resistors and Kemet 5mm metal film box caps plus the tantalums that are needed. For the Elecro's I am not sure between some Vishay's, Lelon's or Nichicon's but if some of you pro's out there can recommend optimal brands of passives for the cleanest build... would be great!
( I am measuring the lead spacings for sure so I don't get the wrong size passives ! )
As stated a 1590BB can be a tight fit but doable!
I prefer mini caps from Mouser that Brian suggests for 1590A builds. Lelon is a reputable brand and they look cool! Brian posted some links to these in his baby board build document on the projects page. I am currently trying out some cheaper mini's that Jon P (Midwayfair) suggests here:
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=6634.0
They are made by panisonic and you can also get them at mouser. I think the minis just look cooler than the taller ones and if you buy in bulk you can build anything from 1590A up...
Ei Brian, you have written on the sdx document this sentence:"Omit R45 (1M). This will increase delay time and is not needed".I didn't quite understand what is not needed;did you miss some information by any chance?It crossed my mind that doing that mod would make change the pot to 100k not necessary to extend delay time.
The resistor is not needed. You can certainly increase delay time by using a larger pot like 100k. How much of it will be useable delay depends on how much noise you can tolerate.
And just to clarify, it is not needed because it essentially duplicates the function of the resistor in parallel with the delay pot (which is optional anyway).
Populating both, say perhaps because it was late, you were watching Psych, and on autopilot (...) won't result in anything too crazy, at least that I can see...right?
Unfortunately, the ZPSDX is almost gone already. I greatly under-anticipated the demand. I will be getting more, obviously, but the manufacturer is closing for two weeks starting tomorrow. This means the re-stock will likely come in early March. Sorry guys :(
Good news on the populaity front, supply n demand :D
I will make the regular zero point next.
Gret bunch of projects
Quote from: madbean on February 03, 2013, 05:09:45 PM
Unfortunately, the ZPSDX is almost gone already. I greatly under-anticipated the demand. I will be getting more, obviously, but the manufacturer is closing for two weeks starting tomorrow. This means the re-stock will likely come in early March. Sorry guys :(
That's gotta be some kind of record!
Has anyone out up a demo vid yet? I'm pretty psyched to hear this baby in action, but in promised myself I would complete a few in progress builds before I started another.
I will have a demo ASAP. And a full pictorial build, too.
Waited too long to order :-\, but looking forward to the demo. It will give me something to look forward to.
http://www.mammothelectronics.com/ALPHA-SR2612F-0304-18R0B-D8-N-ROTARY-SWITCH-3P2-4T-p/820-3p2-4t.htm
will this work for the switch on the SDX?
Yup, that's the one.
Silly question,the spst stomp says normally off,is that the same as normally closed? I'm assuming NO=is normally open which is the same as normally on?
Quote from: jimilee on February 17, 2013, 10:39:49 PM
Silly question,the spst stomp says normally off,is that the same as normally closed? I'm assuming NO=is normally open which is the same as normally on?
I think normally off means the circuit is normally opened and normally on means the circuit is normally closed .
Quote from: PimpMyTone on February 17, 2013, 10:49:01 PM
Quote from: jimilee on February 17, 2013, 10:39:49 PM
Silly question,the spst stomp says normally off,is that the same as normally closed? I'm assuming NO=is normally open which is the same as normally on?
I think normally off means the circuit is normally opened and normally on means the circuit is normally closed .
Indeed, NO means that the switch is open and no current passes through the legs. So, it's normally off.. And vice versa..I know first hand that it can be a little tricky but this is how I learnt that at school. ;)
Hector
any demos yet?!