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Lowpass Filter
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-MF-101-Schematics.pdf
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-MF-101-Owner-Manual.pdf
Ring Modulator
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-MF-102-Schematics.pdf
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-MF-102-Owner-Manual.pdf
12-Stage Phaser
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-MF-103-Schematics.pdf
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-MF-103-Owner-Manual.pdf
Analog Delay
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-MF-104-Schematics.pdf
MuRF
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-Murf-MF-105-Schematics.pdf
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-Murf-Owner-Manual.pdf
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-Murf-Function-Description.pdf
MIDI MuRF
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-MF-105m-Murf-Schematics.pdf
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-Mf-105m-Midi-Murf-Owner-Manual.pdf
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-MF-105m-Murf-Notice.pdf
FreqBox
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-MF-107-Schematic.pdf
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-MF-107-Owner-Manual.pdf
Clusterflux
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-MF-108m-Schematics.pdf
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-MF-108m-owner-manual.pdf
Control Processor
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-CP-251-Schematics.pdf
https://www.synthxl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Moog-CP-251-Owner-Manual.pdf
You can also try the site directly:
http://www.synthxl.com/manufacturers/moog/
Since you insist...I will!
And, thank you :)
Very cool. Thanks for the heads up!
good moogily foogily!
Brian, if you do anything with those... I'd suggest a project name of 'Small Bramble', in reference to Bob Moog's company 'Big Briar' (founded after he left Moog Music, but before he managed to get the rights to his name back.)
Quote from: alanp on May 21, 2021, 05:40:58 AM
Brian, if you do anything with those... I'd suggest a project name of 'Small Bramble', in reference to Bob Moog's company 'Big Briar' (founded after he left Moog Music, but before he managed to get the rights to his name back.)
Love it!
I have a MF102, it is a great Ring Mod but a better tremolo. Of the dozens of tremolos I have tried it is easily the best. It sounds organic, rich and full. I think it's beyond my layout skills (and my eagle license) but I hope someone makes boards for these.
I have a couple of these - they are ridiculous. You can plug them into each other and just play with oscillations. The only downside is they are really big. I think moog has killed that entire product line in the last year or two
If anyone is crazy enough to make diy boards of that 104 delay, I am crazy enough to buy it and build it asap!
FOOG ME, A CLUSTER FLUX!
Many thanks for the schemos!
Quote from: jjjimi84 on May 21, 2021, 02:54:31 PM
If anyone is crazy enough to make diy boards of that 104 delay, I am crazy enough to buy it and build it asap!
I've got zero interest in trying to clone the 104m but I would like to lift some ideas from it for a new delay design. But seriously, look at it:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7124/7847628690_297cdef0c6_z.jpg)
Quote from: madbean on May 22, 2021, 01:07:44 AM
Quote from: jjjimi84 on May 21, 2021, 02:54:31 PM
If anyone is crazy enough to make diy boards of that 104 delay, I am crazy enough to buy it and build it asap!
I've got zero interest in trying to clone the 104m but I would like to lift some ideas from it for a new delay design. But seriously, look at it:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7124/7847628690_297cdef0c6_z.jpg)
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the guy that designed looked back and didn't want to do it again either.
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Quote from: madbean on May 22, 2021, 01:07:44 AM
Quote from: jjjimi84 on May 21, 2021, 02:54:31 PM
If anyone is crazy enough to make diy boards of that 104 delay, I am crazy enough to buy it and build it asap!
I've got zero interest in trying to clone the 104m but I would like to lift some ideas from it for a new delay design. But seriously, look at it:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7124/7847628690_297cdef0c6_z.jpg)
Wow, they certainly didn't waste any space in that thing!
Quote from: madbean on May 22, 2021, 01:07:44 AM
I've got zero interest in trying to clone the 104m but I would like to lift some ideas from it for a new delay design. But seriously, look at it:
I saw the schematic and my starfish puckered. ;D
Quote from: culturejam on May 22, 2021, 01:41:28 AM
Quote from: madbean on May 22, 2021, 01:07:44 AM
I've got zero interest in trying to clone the 104m but I would like to lift some ideas from it for a new delay design. But seriously, look at it:
I saw the schematic and my starfish puckered. ;D
The schematic has instructions for a spillover mod and changes for the different versions but I dont see a reference to the "m" version. The picture it has are of the thru hole version. In the last picture you can also see the bbd daughter board that both the Z and SD versions have underneath the main board. I think the original 104 version (with no letter ) just had the two 3005 chips. The Z and SD were a "long and longer" version reissued at the same time and used 3008s and the daughterboard
I think a lot of what you are seeing in the smd "m" version is a later addition for the midi, tap tempo and other functionality
It's still pretty hairy but this is the "Z" version:
(http://till-kopper.de/Moogerfooger/MF-delay_i.jpg)
Btw, My vote would be for the ring mod, but I would definitely build the delay too
Having everything controllable with an expression pedal is great. Some of these have so much circuitry they're literally heavy
The through hole looks less intimidating. Lots of those bus resistors if I'm seeing right. I'd build it.
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Agree with Jimi. I'd hit it.
But (even given the insanity I get up to), I am not touching that SMD one.
Quote from: madbean on May 22, 2021, 01:07:44 AM
Quote from: jjjimi84 on May 21, 2021, 02:54:31 PM
If anyone is crazy enough to make diy boards of that 104 delay, I am crazy enough to buy it and build it asap!
I've got zero interest in trying to clone the 104m but I would like to lift some ideas from it for a new delay design. But seriously, look at it:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7124/7847628690_297cdef0c6_z.jpg)
Did somebody say 1590A? ;D ;D
Holy mudder a' gadd.
https://youtu.be/2CW4ttcmB7U
This is guy has a couple very good videos about how to use the mf102. What he's doing here around the $ minute mark with the carrier in is super cool and opens up a world of interesting options.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=juJZll0eXsE&feature=emb_title
The Clusterflux was a neat concept. Aside from all the digital LFO stuff, you get a flanger sound with one BBD, and for chorus, another BBD is placed in series to displace the delay just a smidge more. Pretty great stuff.
This guy made a pcb set for a eurorack version of the 12 stage phaser. He hasn't updated his build report yet though.
https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?p=284624#p284624 (https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?p=284624#p284624)
Unfortunately the MF Drive schematic isn't on that page. I haven't had any luck finding that one, but would be very interested in checking it out.
Quote from: benny_profane on June 11, 2021, 05:42:51 PM
Unfortunately the MF Drive schematic isn't on that page. I haven't had any luck finding that one, but would be very interested in checking it out.
That's a Minifooger! ;)
There doesn't seem to be as much going on inside that one. It might actually be traceable.
Gut shots here:
(https://www.tdpri.com/attachments/moog4-jpg.214786/)
https://www.tdpri.com/threads/most-original-overdrive-circuits.453626/page-2
Does somebody know what is VPED? They are all connected together?
Quote from: benny_profane on June 11, 2021, 05:42:51 PM
Unfortunately the MF Drive schematic isn't on that page. I haven't had any luck finding that one, but would be very interested in checking it out.
I haven't verified this yet but I started a thread @ FSB that has the boards and the traces outlined. Here is the schematic I came up with and the link to the thread.
https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?t=31250
Quote from: Chillums on February 24, 2022, 12:41:45 AM
Quote from: benny_profane on June 11, 2021, 05:42:51 PM
Unfortunately the MF Drive schematic isn't on that page. I haven't had any luck finding that one, but would be very interested in checking it out.
I haven't verified this yet but I started a thread @ FSB that has the boards and the traces outlined. Here is the schematic I came up with and the link to the thread.
https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?t=31250
Oh sweet, I was curious what was kicking around in that line, nice piece of design work for the price.
Nicely done :)
Quote from: Scruffie on February 24, 2022, 01:14:45 AM
Quote from: Chillums on February 24, 2022, 12:41:45 AM
Quote from: benny_profane on June 11, 2021, 05:42:51 PM
Unfortunately the MF Drive schematic isn't on that page. I haven't had any luck finding that one, but would be very interested in checking it out.
I haven't verified this yet but I started a thread @ FSB that has the boards and the traces outlined. Here is the schematic I came up with and the link to the thread.
https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?t=31250
Oh sweet, I was curious what was kicking around in that line, nice piece of design work for the price.
Nicely done :)
Oh wow. That's great! Thanks for sharing!
Quote from: Chillums on February 24, 2022, 12:41:45 AM
Quote from: benny_profane on June 11, 2021, 05:42:51 PM
Unfortunately the MF Drive schematic isn't on that page. I haven't had any luck finding that one, but would be very interested in checking it out.
I haven't verified this yet but I started a thread @ FSB that has the boards and the traces outlined. Here is the schematic I came up with and the link to the thread.
https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?t=31250
Awesome! And, really, that schematic drawing is like a work of art. Honestly - it's beautiful work.
An aside - I am totally going to acquire an MF-104m someday. They are quite spendy now but I want to figure out how to afford it, haha.
Quote from: madbean on February 24, 2022, 02:01:32 AM
Quote from: Chillums on February 24, 2022, 12:41:45 AM
Quote from: benny_profane on June 11, 2021, 05:42:51 PM
Unfortunately the MF Drive schematic isn't on that page. I haven't had any luck finding that one, but would be very interested in checking it out.
I haven't verified this yet but I started a thread @ FSB that has the boards and the traces outlined. Here is the schematic I came up with and the link to the thread.
https://www.freestompboxes.org/viewtopic.php?t=31250
Awesome! And, really, that schematic drawing is like a work of art. Honestly - it's beautiful work.
An aside - I am totally going to acquire an MF-104m someday. They are quite spendy now but I want to figure out how to afford it, haha.
You could DIY one. I hear it's all the rage. ;)
The schematic for the mf104 is floating around online. It's something like 12 pages long. You could probably DIY it but it would be a lot of work.
Oh I have it (the schematic). I'm not insane enough to DIY something like that.
Quote from: madbean on February 24, 2022, 04:40:19 PM
Oh I have it (the schematic). I'm not insane enough to DIY something like that.
Not even with four layers? ;)
Definitely beyond my attention span (for starters).
Wow, they ARE pricey! :o
Thanks Bean and Scruff... It still bugs me that the LED even works the way they have it hooked up. I looked at it for hours thinking I missed something. The cathode is being pulled up with R19 and the 2n7003 pulls it to ground I suppose.... :o
Quote from: matmosphere on February 24, 2022, 04:10:36 PM
The schematic for the mf104 is floating around online. It's something like 12 pages long. You could probably DIY it but it would be a lot of work.
Only the first 2 pages are relevant, it doesn't look
too bad really.
That gutshot earlier in the thread is for the 105 or 108.
(mod edit) link since it's not loading: http://www.analoguediehard.com/studio/effects/moog_moogerfoogers/moog_mf-gutz.jpg (http://www.analoguediehard.com/studio/effects/moog_moogerfoogers/moog_mf-gutz.jpg)
Couple interesting things I've observed about the MF-104 delay schem (assuming I've read it correctly b/c it is difficult to follow):
The pre/de-emphasis filters are outside the compander loop. IOW, it looks like only the BBDs are in the loop which is counter to how most analog delays work.
From the datasheet, the SA572 appears to be a slightly "beefed up" SA571/NE570. It has separate attack and recovery 'programmable' pins which I don't think you can do with the NE570. It also looks like the 572 is designed with external op-amp input/output in mind rather than the internal 741 style of the NE570 if I'm following correctly. On the MF104 schem, there is a TL072 handling the input/output part with its bias being taken directly from the THD_TRIM output pin. This is something I've heard of before so it's neat to see it used here.
Lastly, the use of switched filtering looks very familiar after pouring through the StarChambre design! My brian, err, brain is firing with ideas from all this.
Ignoring the blinky light controls on Pg1 make it easier to read, the rest on that page is just expression control and mixing for the various controls.
It's late but I can't actually see any emphasis network going on?
The 4016 looks like it's just switching between 2 sets of filters for short/long mode.
Check out the vintage EHX 16 second delay schematic for a TL082 being used with a NE571 and yeah, you've got the 572, the deluxe model with full control and an external op amp.
I don't know if I'm insane enough to try and clone it, but I am at least insane enough to re-draw the MF104 schem. Learning a lot about how it works. The main thing is keeping track of the off-board connections but I have a strategy to get that in order.
There is a small breakout board that contains 3-5 MN3008 depending on the model, I guess. That's the short delay, if I'm reading it correctly. Then the long delay adds the two MN3005 in series. I think a practical approach would be just use 3 MN3005 and switch in the latter two for the long delay setting. That gets you 750-800ms I think.
Anyway, Berhinger is cloning the Moogfoogers apparently.
Quote from: Scruffie on March 01, 2022, 01:40:19 AM
It's late but I can't actually see any emphasis network going on?
The 4016 looks like it's just switching between 2 sets of filters for short/long mode.
Yes, that is exactly it. Another interesting note is they only use a single trimmer to set the bias of all the BBD. Also, the clock is not buffered at all and it runs at least 5 of them. With just a little bit extra work, one could copy the DCEcho clock buffering and have a "hi-fi" setting maybe!
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/3ohfFt7UUK4TxWZmdG/giphy.gif)
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