Just saw this linked on TGP and thought I'd spark a convo here about it:
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2015/04/behringer-just-bought-tc-tc-helicon-tannoy/
People hate Behringer, but it seems like lately they have upped their game on quality. I recently got a Bugera V22 head, and it is fantastic!
I guess a couple of their newer digital mixing boards are getting some respect. I'm kind of looking forward to when the X-touch control surfaces hit the used market. Wouldn't mind getting me one.
Bugera is beheinger?
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Quote from: jimilee on May 02, 2015, 02:57:00 AM
Bugera is beheinger?
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I think Behringer owns half of all musical instrument companies. They might even part of the Pentavirate. What is the Pentavirate?
Stuart Mackenzie: Well, it's a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.
Tony Giardino: So who's in this Pentavirate?
Stuart Mackenzie: The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders before he went tits up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee *beady* eyes, and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"
Charlie Mackenzie: Dad, how can you hate "The Colonel"?
Stuart Mackenzie: Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes ya crave it fortnightly, smartass!
Bwahahahahaha......and scene.....
Quote from: culturejam on May 02, 2015, 01:58:36 AM
Just saw this linked on TGP and thought I'd spark a convo here about it:
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2015/04/behringer-just-bought-tc-tc-helicon-tannoy/
People hate Behringer, but it seems like lately they have upped their game on quality. I recently got a Bugera V22 head, and it is fantastic!
The reason people hate Behringer (or at least the reason I hate Behringer) is that they built an entire company out of blatantly stealing other companies' designs and products, and selling lesser quality versions of them. I'm not thrilled to see them buying TC, but I'm also not sure exactly what it'll mean yet.
Quote from: lincolnic on May 02, 2015, 03:42:39 AMThe reason people hate Behringer (or at least the reason I hate Behringer) is that they built an entire company out of blatantly stealing other companies' designs and products, and selling lesser quality versions of them. I'm not thrilled to see them buying TC, but I'm also not sure exactly what it'll mean yet.
Well, a lot of boutiquers have made a living of stealing other people's designs as well, some of them even blatantly (Freakish Blues, Vertex). At least Behringer isn't charging 3 to 4 as much for the ripped off product. And they're honest about it. You know you're getting a copy of inferior quality. But you will get it dirt cheap! And I reckon if you're a beginning guitarist that's a pretty sweet deal.
I'm not that worried about this take over. While TC makes good solid stuff, they don't make outstanding stuff. Says the guy who swears by his Nova delay. What I mean is their gear is good, and their sounds are solid. Better sounding then Line 6. But if I had to absolutely chose between TC or Line 6 I'd pick Line 6 because their stuff allows you to do crazy things as well. And sometimes you want to do something crazy and out of this world as well. And you just can't do that TC gear.
Hey! I started a thread about this too... like 8 hours before :) I suppose this is what happens when you live in the other part of the world and you have opposed time schedule.
Thread for reference -> http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=21082.0
(Admin, please delete it)
TC electronics is good because of their designs/ideas, but quality in components and reliability isn't the best.
However I think this purchase is not going to improve anything, and it's a pity, because TC was one of the biggest (better said "few") audio-related companies in Europe with international projection. Behringer (better said Music Group) isn't european at all: the founder is german, but the company is based in philipinas.
Behringer also have their own factory in China - Behringer city.
It'll probably mean cheaper TC gear, either in Berry clones, and/or actual TC branded gear. Which in all likelyhood will be rebranded Berry stuff.
It's all a bit of a moot point, Berry own nearly everyone anyway.
Quote from: Willybomb on May 03, 2015, 10:03:10 AM
Behringer also have their own factory in China - Behringer city.
It'll probably mean cheaper TC gear, either in Berry clones, and/or actual TC branded gear. Which in all likelyhood will be rebranded Berry stuff.
It's all a bit of a moot point, Berry own nearly everyone anyway.
Are there suicide nets around the factory though? I need the guts of my cheap gear to rust quickly from the tears of slave labor that slosh around when I rock... It's like the captured evil in the gear makes me sound more metal.
Quote from: Muadzin on May 02, 2015, 07:46:58 AM
Well, a lot of boutiquers have made a living of stealing other people's designs as well, some of them even blatantly (Freakish Blues, Vertex). At least Behringer isn't charging 3 to 4 as much for the ripped off product.
This is what I was going to say. I think it's worse to "steal" someone else's idea and charge more for it.
Quote from: micromegas on May 02, 2015, 09:43:38 AM
Hey! I started a thread about this too... like 8 hours before :)
doh! Maybe a moderator can merge the two threads?
Quote from: culturejam on May 03, 2015, 01:28:51 PM
Quote from: micromegas on May 02, 2015, 09:43:38 AM
Hey! I started a thread about this too... like 8 hours before :)
doh! Maybe a moderator can merge the two threads?
No need, nobody posted there and I just shared a link.
Quote from: culturejam on May 03, 2015, 01:28:51 PM
Quote from: Muadzin on May 02, 2015, 07:46:58 AM
Well, a lot of boutiquers have made a living of stealing other people's designs as well, some of them even blatantly (Freakish Blues, Vertex). At least Behringer isn't charging 3 to 4 as much for the ripped off product.
This is what I was going to say. I think it's worse to "steal" someone else's idea and charge more for it.
Outside of certain guitar forums, I wonder how many people even know the designs aren't original?
I think Behringer takes more of a hit because their stuff is super low price and not the highest reliability. I seem to remember it was received better when they first came out and the products appeared to be decent quality alternatives (and not quite as cheap). The prices headed south and the quality dipped as well. At some point, they became a lowest common denominator product and their reputation reflects that. Sometimes it's deserved, other times not (often true for companies that produce cheap products).
Or I am totally remembering it wrong. Also possible.
Quote from: pickdropper on May 03, 2015, 02:11:50 PM
Outside of certain guitar forums, I wonder how many people even know the designs aren't original?
Don't know. But I think that might be a side argument. Is it stealing if the people buying it have no idea? ;D
Lately, just about all the cheap brands have been bringing up their game, it seems.
If you google the Rippingtons' contract rider you will see Behringer mentioned several times:
For the house system: "However, we NEVER EVER want to see any Behringer, Mackie (other than ONYX), Peavey, Phonic or other non-professional grade consoles."
Also, "You will be asked to remove ANY Behringer compressors that may be found in your system, so don't even bother trying to get us to use them."
And "FOUR (4) Channels of high quality gates. Preferred are: Drawmer, Aphex and BSS. Absolutely NO Behringer gates will be accepted."
Under monitor consoles, "However, we NEVER EVER want to see any Behringer, Mackie (Excepting the ONYX 80 series), Peavey, Phonic or other 'secondary' brand consoles."
And finally, "VERY IMPORTANT – ABSOLUTELY NO Behringer, Peavey or Alesis outboard gear (compressors, gates, graphic EQ's, direct boxes, effects processors, etc) shall be deemed in any way acceptable. Please provide professional grade equipment. Our Tour Manager does not want to hear any arguments about this, for this show, these brands are not reliable enough to provide consistent, sonically pleasing results."
I had to google to find out who or what the Rippingtons were. ;D Then I listened/watched on YouTube for a bit. That's smoooooooth jazz.
They must pretty awesome if they can dictate to venues what kind of house gear to have.
Quote from: culturejam on May 03, 2015, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: pickdropper on May 03, 2015, 02:11:50 PM
Outside of certain guitar forums, I wonder how many people even know the designs aren't original?
Don't know. But I think that might be a side argument. Is it stealing if the people buying it have no idea? ;D
Lately, just about all the cheap brands have been bringing up their game, it seems.
Sure, stealing is stealing. I am just not sure that's why most people have a low opinion of Behringer as was mentioned earlier in the thread.
They had a bad patch in the 2000s with way below standard parts and build quality. Killed their reputation. The problems were real. Even the gear that sounded pretty good was very prone to fail. The best gear was the oldest. IDK about the newest generation of stuff.
Quote from: pickdropper on May 03, 2015, 07:18:25 PM
Sure, stealing is stealing. I am just not sure that's why most people have a low opinion of Behringer as was mentioned earlier in the thread.
It's definitely not the main reason. The copying ideas thing is a pile-on after the low quality and high rate of failure of their pedals and mixing boards.
For any of us trying to repair Behringer gear was a nightmare. Toss it was the standard procedure. In the past few years they've done a total about face to where my church band has dumped their Yamaha digital gear for the new Behringer stuff including personal in ear monitor consoles. Each of us has their own 16 channel monitor board with variable eq and compression on each channel. Amazing stuff.
I saw the Behringer guitar pedals online, $25. At that price I have to imagine the mechanicals are complete crap.
Just in regards to the Chinese slave labour issue - I obviously can't vouch for every business using the Chinese factories, I can pass on a few stories from my uncles, one who worked for one of Australia's 2 big supermarket chains (he's worked for both at one time or another), and the other works for a major shoe label importing around 2mill shoes per yeah.
Basically, the workers live on site, or close enough, and are paid an above average wage for China. Many send the wages home to family as the food and accomodation is covered by the company. We might think its peanuts, but to them it's a substantial amount... To the point where a worker could buy a house in a year. In 5 years they could have 5 houses and retire, but in the words of one uncle, they're pissing the money up against a wall.
Having said that, you are expected to work. A shoe order was due to be shipped the next day but it couldn't be completed due to a breakdown - my uncle was there and all the labour had gone to bed while it was getting fixed. This was around 10pm. He came in the next day and there was still no one around. He asked why the order that was due to leave at 10am wasn't getting completed and he was told that it had already been shipped - the machine had been repaired at 1am, and all the workers were called I. To get the order out.
So while I can't comment on work conditions or oh&s, the pay is apparently pretty good. Either way, you wouldn't get that work ethic here!
Quote from: Willybomb on May 04, 2015, 02:35:38 AM
Just in regards to the Chinese slave labour issue - I obviously can't vouch for every business using the Chinese factories, I can pass on a few stories from my uncles, one who worked for one of Australia's 2 big supermarket chains (he's worked for both at one time or another), and the other works for a major shoe label importing around 2mill shoes per yeah.
Basically, the workers live on site, or close enough, and are paid an above average wage for China. Many send the wages home to family as the food and accomodation is covered by the company. We might think its peanuts, but to them it's a substantial amount... To the point where a worker could buy a house in a year. In 5 years they could have 5 houses and retire, but in the words of one uncle, they're pissing the money up against a wall.
Having said that, you are expected to work. A shoe order was due to be shipped the next day but it couldn't be completed due to a breakdown - my uncle was there and all the labour had gone to bed while it was getting fixed. This was around 10pm. He came in the next day and there was still no one around. He asked why the order that was due to leave at 10am wasn't getting completed and he was told that it had already been shipped - the machine had been repaired at 1am, and all the workers were called I. To get the order out.
So while I can't comment on work conditions or oh&s, the pay is apparently pretty good. Either way, you wouldn't get that work ethic here!
There's been plenty of abuse of the Chinese work force documented. I seriously doubt any claims that the workers are getting rich and waisting the money. Are the jobs better than the alternative? That's the question with most work.
China's government keeps it's labor cost low by design and by force. We didn't lose western jobs due to any lack of work ethic. We lost them because we had been fighting for a better working environment since the start of the industrial revolution. My hope is that people are people and no one will put up with low pay and poor treatment forever. The sooner they stand up for themselves the sooner the playing field gets leveled.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. While there are people (Goverments? Countries?) that will do it for less with less, others will take advantage of that. I'm just passing on the stories as I've heard them from people who are there.
Work ethic? Probably more "No choice in the matter. Work or dont come in tomorrow".
Either way, cheap gear.