madbeanpedals::forum

Hi there,

I used this sunday to watch Formula 1 in Spa and do a nice 'puzzle'. Formula 1 was a bit disappointing for the Dutch, but my puzzle came out great. I think.

The puzzle was to miniaturise a Triple Wreck to 1590a format. Is it OCD or a fetish to want that ? :P I had a look at some f the Mooer mini pedals and their guts. Board mounted pots and jacks, all SMD, switch and a board with a connector. With 5 pots, a switch and 3 opamps the TW was a nice challenge. I also like the TW a lot, so it's not just 'spielerei'. I want to build it.

Because it takes a couple of weeks to get the boards from Oshpark, I don't want to make mistakes. I need some extra eyes to help me spot possible mistakes. If the design is correct I will build and publish it (in that order, to verify it).

The Eagle files are leading. The Sketchup renders are just for reference and have got some obvious mistakes (no round corners, stereo instead of mono jacks, etc.).

I need help for:
- some extra eyes for the mistakes I missed;
- does grounding and signal flow look good? Getting good grounding was hard, especially at the DC entrance on the board;
- OSHpark options. I'd like plated slots for the switches, jacks and pots. It's not officially supported at OSHpark, but it can be done, even at them.

Anyway, enough talking. Time for some documents (and hopefully soon pictures of a finished build).

(http://i.imgur.com/2ECMgSI.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/lAHxaZf.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/BRvw4Qg.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/7iEujne.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GnYp0Au.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/G21pf5U.jpg)

WOW.

One issue -- SMD diodes can be mildly wankerous. What package are you using for them?

Oh, and another -- the leads for some of the pots are going to collide with the Out Jack, badly.

Sweet, very clever idea on the switch.

I'd consider moving the switch downward so you just have a notched outline, not a  square hole, and placing the header between the jack and switch.

Not sure you need plated slots. Easier to oversize the enclosure holes a little, IMHO.

Agree with Alan on the pot and jack issue. A minor sacrifice might be to use jacks that aren't board mounted, or use an smd trimmer and lose a knob.  but I see where you're going and like it. The Mooer pedals look great.

One other thing I learned the hard way with gainy pedals is to watch how close your input and output are to each other, the high pitched squeal is a real albatross. So, can't see exactly what you did but I think they're right next to each other. I think this actually holds true on/inside the switch too, so I now place in and out on col a and c vs b and c.

I did an smd triple wreck a while back on a chuckbuick pcb, 1590b sized.  Came out great. I originally planned to a do a 1590a version prior.

really cool concept and well executed too!

leave C16 and CLR1 off. it's just an indicator LED. no one will ever see if the DC is rippling or not, safe some space and parts.

If you have space and might move the switch you could do onboard optical bypass like the GC Lumen/1776 Optotron or THcustoms optotronic. the later uses an smd optocoupler, so it will be very small too.

Quote from: alanp on August 29, 2016, 02:52:41 AM
WOW.

One issue -- SMD diodes can be mildly wankerous. What package are you using for them?

Oh, and another -- the leads for some of the pots are going to collide with the Out Jack, badly.

The small diodes in the signal path are SOD323 1N4148's from Vishay. I believe Pickdgropper used them in his SMD Timmy clone. They are tiny, but certainly doable. The bigger Diode in the power supply is a SS-14, essentially a 1n5819 in SMA format. Vf of those is only 0.15 (V). I used a slightly bigger one (S2G, SMB) in a SMD Riot clone I recently did. Those are easy peasy. What do you find wankerous about them?

The pot leads do indeed collide with the jack! Mooer places only one pot exactly under the output jack. I need to fit two pots... PCB mounted Cliff style jacks are hollow underneath, only the sides are solid plastic. I have four options: 1 Dremel away some of the plastic of the jack, 2 clip the pot leads before soldering (making 'm flush at the jack side and soldering the other side; all holes are through plated), 3 mount the pots of board and relocate the holes on the board (mehhh) and 4 rotate and relocate the bottom two pots so all connections are either fully under or outside the jack.

Anyway, I will look into this issue. On a side note: the bottom two pots are meant to be mounted to the board and enclosure (just like a normal of board pot. The top three pots are plastic, so without a nut. Making the bottom two pots off board, means the others have to be as well.

For those who want to fiddle around with the board and schematic in Eagle, here are the files.

Quote from: Rootz on August 29, 2016, 05:31:07 PMWhat do you find wankerous about them?

SOD123 package :)

Wound up PIFing them away.

Quote from: alanp on August 29, 2016, 05:48:42 PM

Quote from: Rootz on August 29, 2016, 05:31:07 PMWhat do you find wankerous about them?

SOD123 package :)

Wound up PIFing them away.

Where's your sense of adventure?   ;D

They are much easier than 0201 parts.  Not sure about 01005.  I haven't braved those yet.

Quote from: wgc on August 29, 2016, 04:33:46 AM
Sweet, very clever idea on the switch.

I'd consider moving the switch downward so you just have a notched outline, not a  square hole, and placing the header between the jack and switch.

Not sure you need plated slots. Easier to oversize the enclosure holes a little, IMHO.

Agree with Alan on the pot and jack issue. A minor sacrifice might be to use jacks that aren't board mounted, or use an smd trimmer and lose a knob.  but I see where you're going and like it. The Mooer pedals look great.

One other thing I learned the hard way with gainy pedals is to watch how close your input and output are to each other, the high pitched squeal is a real albatross. So, can't see exactly what you did but I think they're right next to each other. I think this actually holds true on/inside the switch too, so I now place in and out on col a and c vs b and c.

I did an smd triple wreck a while back on a chuckbuick pcb, 1590b sized.  Came out great. I originally planned to a do a 1590a version prior.

Tanks wgc! I saw your TW and that is a seriously cool build man! Love it!!

See above for my thoughts about the jack/pot issue.

The 3pdt was inspired by the way Mooer places them. This is also inline with the placement I usually do. Looks good and is stable when pressing the switch with a foot; doesn't flip over. However, your suggestion would give a better grounding scheme, with fewer chances of ground loops. I seriously consider redoing that part.

Keeping in and out better separated crossed my mind, didn't pay attention to it enough! Will place in and out points on opposite sites of the pcb's with ground in between them. Traces will also move to the corresponding sides.

For a better view of the switch board, here's an updated Sketchup drawing.

(http://i.imgur.com/jaHtDaa.jpg)

Quote from: m-Kresol on August 29, 2016, 07:38:26 AM
really cool concept and well executed too!

leave C16 and CLR1 off. it's just an indicator LED. no one will ever see if the DC is rippling or not, safe some space and parts.

If you have space and might move the switch you could do onboard optical bypass like the GC Lumen/1776 Optotron or THcustoms optotronic. the later uses an smd optocoupler, so it will be very small too.

Thanks man!

C16 and CLR1 are not to prevent ripple, but to 'slow' start the led and prevent a pop by a current surge in the power supply. I use it because I was suggested to use it. Just tested the circuit in ltspice and compared it to just a resistor in series with the led. No difference!! Both options show a 200mV drop in the power supply on the pedal (consisting of just a series Schottky diode, 47 Ohm resistor and a 100uF cap). The voltage drop seems equally abrupt in both cases. I can't scope a working circuit to confirm the simulation. Looks like I should try one of your solutions! I will look into opto switching.

Very cool.  I get what you intend now with the pot and jacks. I think it's doable, now that you mention the hollow spots. Not sure if the 3D model accurately reflects the real thing, and might vary by supplier too.  Easy to get surprised.

Glad you are changing the in/out routing. You'll be glad you did. I did a bogner preamp build that drove me craaaazzy. Someday I would like to redo that layout.

You can mix on board and off board pots though, just FYI. I've done it (messed up the drilling layout) and was still able to use the onboard ones for anchoring.

The opto switching might be a good way to go. I've thought about it too but have about 20 3pdt hanging around.

Put me down for a pcb set, let me know how much. Someday soon I'll be building again...

Btw I got Alan's diodes. They are fun, hope I can buy him a beer sometime, solid bloke he is.  Will send some if you like, he sent enough to share.

Quote from: wgc on August 29, 2016, 11:35:30 PM
Very cool.  I get what you intend now with the pot and jacks. I think it's doable, now that you mention the hollow spots. Not sure if the 3D model accurately reflects the real thing, and might vary by supplier too.  Easy to get surprised.

Glad you are changing the in/out routing. You'll be glad you did. I did a bogner preamp build that drove me craaaazzy. Someday I would like to redo that layout.

You can mix on board and off board pots though, just FYI. I've done it (messed up the drilling layout) and was still able to use the onboard ones for anchoring.

The opto switching might be a good way to go. I've thought about it too but have about 20 3pdt hanging around.

Put me down for a pcb set, let me know how much. Someday soon I'll be building again...

Btw I got Alan's diodes. They are fun, hope I can buy him a beer sometime, solid bloke he is.  Will send some if you like, he sent enough to share.

That's a very kind offer wgc! Are you in The Netherlands too (thinking about shipping costs you'd need to pay?

Real pcb mount Cliff jacks are hollow. Walls are about 1.5 mm or 0.05 inch thick and the cavity is about 3 mm or 0.1 inch high/deep. Other manufactures indeed supply different jacks. With some there is a brace between the long sides that would touch the PCB (and thus the pot lugs). Problem is that both pots that anchor to the enclosure are the ones in question... Anchoring is still done by the jacks though. We'll see how this goes... The 3d model is only for the looks of them. They are stereo anyway, I will use mono. I've got a couple of panel mount and pcb mount jacks here. There are two versions: the ones with plastic nuts and the ones with the metal nuts. I've got both, but will use the ones with the metal nuts. With those you put the nut through the enclosure, so you can mount them while they are already on the pcb. The nut goed in the jack. The legs of the jacks I have line up perfectly with a 1:1 print of the pcb.

Speaking of the pcb: I made a new version with opto switching. DPDT switches are much smaller!! Didn't know that. I've got a bunch of 3pdt's left (not 20 though, 6 to be exact), but hey, this gives me a much better grounding scheme. I've got a hard time finding an equivalent of the tlp222g in SMD. I used a tlp283 here. I'm still searching something suitable in Europe. There is room for DIP4, but like the smaller package more. Of course  ;D

Redid the signal path a bit. In and out are separated and on different sides of the pcb now. Better?

Need to source some parts and get a proto up and running. I'm ordering pcb's after I get all the part to confirm everything fits as intended.

Revised scheme and board below.

(http://i.imgur.com/qbKFFzC.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/6y8V6n7.png)

Nice one. Yeah, DPDT switches are indeed smaller, have lower mechanical action for switching, are more sturdy and less prone to mechanical pops. for the optocoupler, check out CPC1017. That's what Thomas from THcustoms is using and he's in Germany, so it should be available. good luck.

I had a look at the CPC1017, but can only find it at Mouser, eBay or aliexpress... Not a Conrad, where I normally order my stuff. What do you think of the AQY210s? Is a photomos, Ron looks good, maximum turn on current is 3mA. A bit higher that I'd prefer. Pretty fast too. And small


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It should work well. and are you serious? you are shopping at Conrad? that is probably the most expensive place around. at least in Austria. I only go there for the odd bits and pieces or if I forgot something. you could try RS components. free shipping starting at 50€ and most often next day delivery.

Didn't know RS supplies to individual customers too! Used Conrad once for odd bits and was planning to go there more often. Thought I finally had a supplier nearby, with low free shipping threshold and somewhat reasonable prices. Well reasonable... € 0.03 for a 0603 resistor, even if you buy 100s of them.


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Quote from: Rootz on August 30, 2016, 10:06:42 AM
Didn't know RS supplies to individual customers too!

I think they do  ::) I made a profile just to fill the shopping cart with all the stuff I need, which I then sent to our insitute's engineer, who got discounts and free shipping. Never actually ordered something myself.

Looks better to me. Good idea to get parts and verify first.

I'm in the states, shipping can't be that much. Send a pm.

I dig this layout, man.  And extra props for doing a double-sided board in Eagle. 

And don't let pickdropper start questioning your sense of adventure when it comes to component package size.  He did that to me once and I ended up with a One Knob Fuzz using 0201 caps and resistors.  Never again.  And that circuit has about as few components as you'll find.  Damn you, Dave :)

(http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad124/v4hor/Pedals/20140424_170817_zps7c1a3542.jpg)

That one still makes me smile.

If only oshpark did embedded passives...

Quote from: m-Kresol on August 30, 2016, 10:58:25 AM

Quote from: Rootz on August 30, 2016, 10:06:42 AM
Didn't know RS supplies to individual customers too!

I think they do  ::) I made a profile just to fill the shopping cart with all the stuff I need, which I then sent to our insitute's engineer, who got discounts and free shipping. Never actually ordered something myself.

I made an account. I'm a photographer and have a VAT-number . My guess is they will never check what I do for a living.


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Quote from: wgc on September 02, 2016, 02:52:37 AM
Looks better to me. Good idea to get parts and verify first.

I'm in the states, shipping can't be that much. Send a pm.

Thanks!! Small package usually around $ 4,- or so to the Netherlands. However, shipping within the Netherlands is free when your order at, e.g. Conrad, is big enough. That's what I meant.


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Quote from: chuckbuick on September 02, 2016, 12:21:55 PM
I dig this layout, man.  And extra props for doing a double-sided board in Eagle. 

And don't let pickdropper start questioning your sense of adventure when it comes to component package size.  He did that to me once and I ended up with a One Knob Fuzz using 0201 caps and resistors.  Never again.  And that circuit has about as few components as you'll find.  Damn you, Dave :)

(http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad124/v4hor/Pedals/20140424_170817_zps7c1a3542.jpg)

Those transistors are really obnoxiously big!! Didn't Pickdropper point you to something smaller?? Haha. No, 0603 is as far as I'll go in this design. 1uF capacitors are already X5R and 16v max. I prefer X7R.

I did a digital test fit of the board yesterday. It looks like this:
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160902/36fcb6eb9a862e2be339481a9349bdef.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160902/58386b7053c2b0285e229eb8f3bd1a81.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160902/0a58ddb17eaf8977782d958a5b5ef4c8.jpg)
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160902/784ac94261e232ba0570a1dcc6a51bfb.jpg)


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I'm still struggling a bit with the opto switching. In all schematics I've seen, there is a cap, most of the time 220n. What is it for and where in the opto chain should it be placed? Electrical debounce of the switch?


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noob question

where/how to preview 3D like that?
tutorial, please  ;)

I can't tell from the pic, but are you using a sub-mini toggle switch? If not, you can save lot of space there and they are essentially the same height as  the 9mm alphas. The regular switches we typically use are a bit too tall and will make it difficult to solder the pots in place (I'm not sure they would work at all).

Quote from: 287m on September 03, 2016, 10:38:19 AM
noob question

where/how to preview 3D like that?
tutorial, please  ;)

That's not a noob question! I made those 3D views with Sketchup. There is a plugin called EagleUp that you need. They have a website with tutorials for installation and use of the plugin. Try that first and see how far you can get. It was pretty much all I needed to get the results I did.


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Quote from: Stomptown on September 03, 2016, 04:08:38 PM
I can't tell from the pic, but are you using a sub-mini toggle switch? If not, you can save lot of space there and they are essentially the same height as  the 9mm alphas. The regular switches we typically use are a bit too tall and will make it difficult to solder the pots in place (I'm not sure they would work at all).

That is indeed a sub miniature switch. I've got a switch library in Eagle where they are called tiny switches. I've got a couple of those sub mini switches in stock and confirmed that I use the right pin sizes and spacing. I had some doubts about the hight of the switch and thought it might not be tall enough. You just gave me the answer to that :-).


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Quote from: Rootz on September 03, 2016, 11:59:01 PM

Quote from: Stomptown on September 03, 2016, 04:08:38 PM
I can't tell from the pic, but are you using a sub-mini toggle switch? If not, you can save lot of space there and they are essentially the same height as  the 9mm alphas. The regular switches we typically use are a bit too tall and will make it difficult to solder the pots in place (I'm not sure they would work at all).

That is indeed a sub miniature switch. I've got a switch library in Eagle where they are called tiny switches. I've got a couple of those sub mini switches in stock and confirmed that I use the right pin sizes and spacing. I had some doubts about the hight of the switch and thought it might not be tall enough. You just gave me the answer to that :-).


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Cool! Very impressive layout btw.

Quote from: Stomptown on September 04, 2016, 12:20:23 AM

Quote from: Rootz on September 03, 2016, 11:59:01 PM

Quote from: Stomptown on September 03, 2016, 04:08:38 PM
I can't tell from the pic, but are you using a sub-mini toggle switch? If not, you can save lot of space there and they are essentially the same height as  the 9mm alphas. The regular switches we typically use are a bit too tall and will make it difficult to solder the pots in place (I'm not sure they would work at all).

That is indeed a sub miniature switch. I've got a switch library in Eagle where they are called tiny switches. I've got a couple of those sub mini switches in stock and confirmed that I use the right pin sizes and spacing. I had some doubts about the hight of the switch and thought it might not be tall enough. You just gave me the answer to that :-).


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Cool! Very impressive layout btw.

Merci Beaucoup (because that sounds great when you pronounce it like lt. Aldo Raine/Brad Pitt in Inglorious Basterds)!


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Most of the parts for this build have been ordered, except for the passives. I really need to pay close attention to the small differences. For example not all Cliff style jacks are the same. The jacks of Cliff and Rean appear to be slightly wider and longer than the ones from Neutrik for which this board is designed. The same for pots: small differences between Alpha and Alps. Pots, jacks, switches, all should arrive tomorrow.

In the mean time I needed something to do, so I'm working on 1590a versions in the same fashion as this TW of the Skreddy Srewdriver/Lunar module, DBD, small clone and Fulltone '70. The small clone is a bit of a challenge, but hey, I like the toughest puzzles best :-;


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It all looks awesome!  I'm always on the lookout for some cool, small SMD projects! (especially a 1590a chorus ;) )

Quote from: dan.schumaker on September 09, 2016, 06:00:27 PM
It all looks awesome!  I'm always on the lookout for some cool, small SMD projects! (especially a 1590a chorus ;) )

Ha yeah, me too! And I'm looking for cleaner solutions for wiring too, hence all the board mounted stuff. With standard placement of certain parts, drilling etc. should be a breeze too. I've got a Pork Barrel and love it and already wanted a Small Clone, so why not design one in a small package and have some fun (other fun than drinking a few beers with friends, but fun nonetheless).

Let's get on with some teasers of work in progress. Of these projects only the Lunar screwdriver (an extremely good design by Skreddy) is at a stage that I could start to order parts. The rest is still in board design phase. The 3D renders are also of the Lunar screwdriver.

Stay tuned for more updates about the TW. It takes long to see some real life results (and not just 3D renders) due to shipping and order processing times and the way I work, but those results will come!

(http://i.imgur.com/z5Yb7Gf.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/1qh3dHt.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/qgK0RNa.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/z7yEXFB.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/dTfvrHZ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9K16Jph.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/Ir6TxZw.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/xLiczil.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/g5q1XwG.jpg)

looks good once again.

seems like you've got a very different approach to layouting than I do. I first put down all components that will have certain positions, like pots, switches, connector pads and the like. then I put down all components following the schematic more or less as close together as possible, also keeping an eye on possible routes for the traces. after parts placement I trim the pcb to size, space the components as evenly as possible and start laying down traces, which of course leads to some parts being shuffled around. long story short, I don't start putting down traces before all components are placed ;)

Quote from: m-Kresol on September 09, 2016, 08:40:11 PM
looks good once again.

seems like you've got a very different approach to layouting than I do. I first put down all components that will have certain positions, like pots, switches, connector pads and the like. then I put down all components following the schematic more or less as close together as possible, also keeping an eye on possible routes for the traces. after parts placement I trim the pcb to size, space the components as evenly as possible and start laying down traces, which of course leads to some parts being shuffled around. long story short, I don't start putting down traces before all components are placed ;)

Not too different then! The placement of pots, jacks, switches, status led, connector between switch board and main board are given. I then place the bigger parts based on their place in the schematic and group the accompanying parts around them. Then I 'pre' route some parts to visualise where I will run into problems. That's where the real fun begins: shifting parts and traces around to minimise trace length and get the most important parts as close to IC's as possible. I use the rip up tool a lot. Really, probably too much. I wish I could work out a better workflow.
When working on a board that isn't restricted to an exact size like these, I trim it after everything is placed.

Awesome!  Also had an smd small clone on my list.

Haha nice. Do you want one with 0201 size components then?  ;D

Are there must have mods for a small clone beside the depth knob? I've got room left for a sub miniature switch and maybe some trim pots...

I'll try anything once. :)

I will stay away from the really small parts, for now  :P

Got some parts in today, so time to take some real life measurements and do a very quick mockup on a scrap piece of vero. Just measured the total height from the top side of the volume pot to the top side of the output jack: 27.1 mm. The inner height of a 1590a enclosure is 27.4 mm, so it's really tight fit. But it fits!

The Alpha DPDT footswitches are tiny when compared to a 3PDT by the way. Definitely the way to go for more crowded builds. Overall very nice, relatively silent switches.

When checking the placements of the jacks, I found that they were a bit far from the inner walls of the enclosure. The nut could barely be fastened. I'm glad I'm checking this kind of stuff before ordering the boards...

(http://i.imgur.com/qQBVI19.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ORbo9Oj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/oVSHtvy.jpg)

Boards are in. Not a big surprise that everything fits like a glove, but very happy about that nonetheless!  Still need to order some of the smaller stuff, but solder time is about to begin.
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160927/ffd390ec1c140304e405fc32e2b0a60d.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160927/7810e1d696aa9f0e6fb4e53f84d329fe.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160927/8bfdb2e7521e2eb88bd76641bbcf2cec.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160927/939b87864b1906c0fe2f8fe98c7772d9.jpg)


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Unbelievably impressive.
Boards look great - and I know exactly what you mean about the thrill when they show up and all those calculations, hopes and guesstimations work out.

Looks awesome!  You know I'm excited about these!

Wow, just wow


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Thanks very much for the kind comments! I have to temper them a bit. First let's see if the pedal actually works when done. I'm done for today anyway: out of parts and need to go to the gym. I'll continue work on Thursday or Friday and should know whether this project is successful or not by Saturday. Pretty exciting huh?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160927/845e582f537427780f8e83c63f9afa7f.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160927/a8ddfa1edf1b047499b4de77a4f77f08.jpg)


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That's a great job.

I also like that you didn't board mount the foot switch. 


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Quote from: pickdropper on September 27, 2016, 06:14:23 PM
That's a great job.

I also like that you didn't board mount the foot switch.

I agree however, I do wonder why even use the adapter PCB that you are soldering onto the footswitch. Why not save the money and time and just wire from the main PCB to the switch directly?

chapeau, my good sir

Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on September 27, 2016, 06:31:45 PM

Quote from: pickdropper on September 27, 2016, 06:14:23 PM
That's a great job.

I also like that you didn't board mount the foot switch.

I agree however, I do wonder why even use the adapter PCB that you are soldering onto the footswitch. Why not save the money and time and just wire from the main PCB to the switch directly?

I've got two pretty simple reasons for this: I wanted a wireless build for no other reason than convenience. And I wanted to experiment with a pinheaded to quick connect the foot switch. Header on main and switch board and just plug and play. It's pretty clean also this way. I payed approx 3 bucks for tree switch boards FYI... Not my idea of expensive. I paid top dollar for the sioc 4580s and the optocouplers however. 1.20 Euro for one op amp is a bit steep I think.
Also, to my surprise, Tayda is the only supplier I could find, that has board mount Alpha 9 mm pots with plastic shafts that are reverse log. Pretty lame if you only order 3 pots on the other side of the globe if you ask me.


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I love these builds, i'm currently redesigning various 1590a all-in-one boards to use optical bypass and had run into an issue with the heights. 9mm pots and a "through mounted" dpdt might be the way to do it, i'm not that brave with SMD yet though!

Quote from: sturgeo on September 27, 2016, 08:54:01 PM
I love these builds, i'm currently redesigning various 1590a all-in-one boards to use optical bypass and had run into an issue with the heights. 9mm pots and a "through mounted" dpdt might be the way to do it, i'm not that brave with SMD yet though!

Thanks! I've said it before and will say it again: SMD is at least as simple as tht. Not always needed though. Take a close look to the mini pedals from Mooer, Eno, Donner, etc. I think some of those designs are nothing short of impressive and were a big inspiration for my designs. I borrowed the idea of the through mounted DPDT. I'm currently working on a CE-2 in 1590a format. There smd is a must. I even opted for stacked pcb's; a double decker.
Let's hope this triple wreck project turns out satisfactory in every respect. Can't wait to put 9 Volts on it and hear the well known sounds out of this tiny build.


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Quote from: Rootz on September 27, 2016, 08:48:08 PM

Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on September 27, 2016, 06:31:45 PM

Quote from: pickdropper on September 27, 2016, 06:14:23 PM
That's a great job.

I also like that you didn't board mount the foot switch.

I agree however, I do wonder why even use the adapter PCB that you are soldering onto the footswitch. Why not save the money and time and just wire from the main PCB to the switch directly?

I've got two pretty simple reasons for this: I wanted a wireless build for no other reason than convenience. And I wanted to experiment with a pinheaded to quick connect the foot switch. Header on main and switch board and just plug and play. It's pretty clean also this way. I payed approx 3 bucks for tree switch boards FYI... Not my idea of expensive. I paid top dollar for the sioc 4580s and the optocouplers however. 1.20 Euro for one op amp is a bit steep I think.
Also, to my surprise, Tayda is the only supplier I could find, that has board mount Alpha 9 mm pots with plastic shafts that are reverse log. Pretty lame if you only order 3 pots on the other side of the globe if you ask me.


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It'll definitely look cleaner, but you may get better reliability if you connect the footswitch with wires instead of a header strip.

What you are going to run into is that you are going to have the board mount to the enclosure in multiple planes.  Any binding at all could add stress to the solder joints.

Very true, thanks! I'll pay close attention to that. I could also use solid core wire or plain wire to make the connections. Makes it somewhat flexible and is still very clean. There are more ways to Rome so to speak.


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Quote from: Rootz on September 27, 2016, 06:07:36 PM
Thanks very much for the kind comments! I have to temper them a bit. First let's see if the pedal actually works when done. I'm done for today anyway: out of parts and need to go to the gym. I'll continue work on Thursday or Friday and should know whether this project is successful or not by Saturday. Pretty exciting huh?

Solder time! Then it's swearing time, followed by troubleshooting time, then "Why won't you bloody WORK!", then "AhHA!" then it's bourbon and pizza time! :D

Quote from: alanp on September 28, 2016, 02:32:04 AM

Quote from: Rootz on September 27, 2016, 06:07:36 PM
Thanks very much for the kind comments! I have to temper them a bit. First let's see if the pedal actually works when done. I'm done for today anyway: out of parts and need to go to the gym. I'll continue work on Thursday or Friday and should know whether this project is successful or not by Saturday. Pretty exciting huh?

Solder time! Then it's swearing time, followed by troubleshooting time, then "Why won't you bloody WORK!", then "AhHA!" then it's bourbon and pizza time! :D

Haha, I'm stuck at solder time combined with "why TF do you say something is in stock, when it's not Conrad!!" time. Yup, all except 1 ic on backorder  >:(. Forgive me, bad practice, I already started boxing this up. Now I know the whole concept really works. Everything board mounted that is.

Had some more work done. I'm still looking for a nice pcb connector to connect the power inlet to the pcb. Not really necessary, but would be cool. Any tips? The Molex I have is just to tall... should be less than 20 mm tall, 10 to 15 is preferred.

Anyway, pictures:

(http://i.imgur.com/4jryIXV.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/QPL2oOa.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/VQqmurc.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GRQXryi.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/MHBnKtJ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/s8F48uj.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/eQw3ejI.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/OrFgujT.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/zBsb8Ig.jpg)

 :o Very nice, did you have to do any adapting to the neutrik jacks to clear the pot legs?

I've had a look at the previous iteration you uploaded, it doesn't look like it should all fit, need to get my calipers out and check my 1590a measurements, looks like you got the jack spacing just right.

Quote from: sturgeo on October 01, 2016, 04:38:26 PM
:o Very nice, did you have to do any adapting to the neutrik jacks to clear the pot legs?

I've had a look at the previous iteration you uploaded, it doesn't look like it should all fit, need to get my calipers out and check my 1590a measurements, looks like you got the jack spacing just right.

Yep, i got it just right except for one minor thingy... the Mattel tab on the base of one of the pots was touching a grounded connection of the output jack. That should not be a problem, but nonetheless I removed that tab (just like you do with the protruding tab on the other side of most potentiometers). I soldered the gain and volume pit from the component side, as the bottom side is covered mostly by the jack. I already knew that was the best (if not only) way to solder them. The connections are very solid though, because the holes are through plated. I'm very pleased how this worked out: solid and simple as long as you do it in the right order.

Literally can't wait for the rest of the ic's to arrive. So curious if it really works and how it sounds!!


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Quote from: Rootz on October 01, 2016, 05:46:23 PM
the Mattel tab on the base of one of the pots was touching a grounded connection of the output jack.

That'll be good though won't it as it'll ground the enclosure? or are you doing that another way?

Quote from: sturgeo on October 01, 2016, 05:57:12 PM

Quote from: Rootz on October 01, 2016, 05:46:23 PM
the Mattel tab on the base of one of the pots was touching a grounded connection of the output jack.

That'll be good though won't it as it'll ground the enclosure? or are you doing that another way?

That will be done but at the switch. There is an extra wire pad on the switch board present for grounding the enclosure. Can be done in more than one way though. I find that a tab pressing to a solder joint is not solid enough to be considered desirable, hence I removed it.


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That's some serious mad scientist miniaturisation shit going on right there!  :o  8)

That looks fantastic!  Great job.

Haha thanks guys. The ic's should arrive shortly after October 11th. Fingers crossed and let's hope it works...


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Lordy, a man after mine own heart...  damn near fainted.

Looks amazing, had no idea you already had pcbs! (Dibs on a pcb set.)

I would've sent you the ic's, but ATM I doubt they'll get there sooner than your back order though.

Might be worth trying another op amp if you have any... 

Didn't realize you were doing pin and socket header for the footswitch. That should help relieve any strain you might have otherwise.

That's some precise drilling you did too.

Love to see a good plan come together.

Haha great. When looking at the Troyka build I was thinking: I want that too (that's yours right?)! Definitely one of those benchmark builds for me.

I was really surprised drilling came out so neat. The holes for the plastic shaft are only 0.5 mm bigger than the shafts. There is no margin for error. Having a good template, centre punch and stepped drill bit made it easier.

Thanks for your generosity. I've got some tl072 from TI lying around. I've read though that the 4580 is the ic that delivers the real Triple Wreck sound. I haven't got a hot air soldering station so changing ic's is a bit of a challenge. It can be done, but I'd rather wait whilst being an impatient person...

It still is easy to put at least some strain on the pcb. Put the foot switch too high: strain. Put the nut on the toggle switch to low: strain. A better way to do the foot switch would be to use a double height pin header. First mount the main pcb with the header soldered to it, then place the foot switch with pcb. When all nuts are fastened solder the foot switch pcb to the pinheader: solid connection, but no strain. Not sure about a better way to do the toggle yet. It would be nice if I could somehow figure out a way to get the top of the switch exactly to the height of the metal shaft pots.

I'll be taking orders once this pcb is confirmed working, I'm fully satisfied and I put together a small building guide. A guide is pretty much needed as it is very likely to mount parts in the wrong order and get yourself into problems that way...

After verifying I'm open to mods and additions for next runs of the pcb. Should be fun to mod this circuit to taste and/or get more versatility out of it.


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Put my name down for one once its verified  :)

Do you have any gut shots of it inside the enclosure?

Your original brd has it at 88.9mm long, i've just measured and the max i can fit (in a genuine 1590a) 10mm from the top (9mm pot height) is 88.35mm. Same goes for width, between the pillars i've got 21.5mm and the brd is 21.59mm

I've got 1590a clones from Ali. Not sure if they are exactly the same size as those from Hammond... I've got room left in the enclosures I use.


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Bit difficult to see... there is 0.5 mm space all around the board. (http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161002/85471682814e4f28357ae25786bbdd1f.jpg)


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Boards are 87.6 x 33.6. Between the pillars 21.6. Check the data sheet of the 1590a. You should probably have some space left. Renders in sketchup with carefully modelled parts suggest everything should fit in a Hammond 1590a.

Here's what I'll do: buy a genuine 1590a and confirm that it will fit (I bought a load of those really nice and sturdy cheap Chinese boxes).


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My experience with the Ali boxes is that the corners on the Hammond are a little bit rounder. Should be a good fit either way.

Thanks for the kind words on the Troyka. That layout and board is from Chuckbuick so I can't take credit for that. He does some of the nicest layouts, I can't say enough good things about them.  Beautiful stuff. (It's a great pedal too, though I tend to prefer my engl red Sonja build.)

But I'm super stoked and flattered if anything I've done has inspired someone else in even the slightest way. Usually I post to say, "here's a few things I messed up a little, here's the issue, maybe you can avoid the same."  :)

Quote from: wgc on October 03, 2016, 12:54:42 AM
My experience with the Ali boxes is that the corners on the Hammond are a little bit rounder. Should be a good fit either way.

Thanks for the kind words on the Troyka. That layout and board is from Chuckbuick so I can't take credit for that. He does some of the nicest layouts, I can't say enough good things about them.  Beautiful stuff. (It's a great pedal too, though I tend to prefer my engl red Sonja build.)

But I'm super stoked and flattered if anything I've done has inspired someone else in even the slightest way. Usually I post to say, "here's a few things I messed up a little, here's the issue, maybe you can avoid the same."  :)

The corners on a Hammond are rounder indeed!

I saw all layout Chucksbuick did here on the madbean forum. Great great stuff. And you can take credit for the impeccable job on the assembly and finish.

Anyway... Take a look at this.

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161008/6ede5889bfb609aa0c8b622a224ab99f.jpg)

Are you going to believe me when I say I skipped swearing time a together and popped a bottle of champagne right away for good reasons? Man what a beast this is! I was a little bit worried that the linear bass pot instead of a reverse log would limit its useable range, but it is perfect. I suspect that the real TW has a very narrow useable range with lower bass settings.

I am really stunned how versatile this pedal is. At lower gain settings and the brutal/normal switch to normal, it does a very good classic rock tone. Higher on the gain, on brutal and with the mids low its chunk chunk heaven. Very good tone stack! I love it!

Whilst The switching now being done by a DPDT and an opto mosfet, it still isn't completely silent. On higher gain it still gives a noticeable pop when switching on. Not very loud though but not much better than with a 3PDT. Switching action is much better. No more pain in the feet when switching whilst wearing socks :-).


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Congrats, bud. THat's a huge win!

Thanks! A huge win indeed. With everything board mounted and spaced like in this build, debugging would be hell... But, no need to debug this time ;D ;D

Wow, I was waiting to see if this worked, and I missed it entirely!

Awesome job, can't wait to buy some pcbs!

hotness!!  8) 8) 8)

Yes, this one can go on sale! I tried it on a '73 super lead and a matching 4x12 with G12H's: monstrous tone. Good God, that's a shit load of lows...

I've got two prototypes left. Those are fully functional, nicely done OSH Park boards, just without a board name printed on them (of course there is a silk screen). I'll place a post in Buy/Sell/Trade about it, but you can also pm me.

What do you think WGC, would a BOM, shopping list, schematic and layout be enough to build this pedal? Could you have a look at the PDF I attached? That so far only contains BOM, shopping list and brief description. Schematic and layout (top and bottom) will be added.

Sign me up for a prototype. Schem, Bom, is plenty for me, it wouldn't hurt to add some notes about assembly for others though. I think you could take those right out of this thread.

Shopping list is not necessary but welcome. I think I have most/all of the parts already.

I'll send a pm shortly.

Pm sent. The assembly notes are in the PDF in post 75.

The triple wreck made its debut on a band rehearsal last Thursday. Man that thing sounds just monstrous through a 100 Watt plexi. It is currently on an improvised pedal board.

Just look at how big that Pork Barrel in a 1590b is, not to speak of the power supply in an oversized reused enclosure...

The white pedal is an SMD deep blue delay I housed last week. Worked right from power on. Got a pcb of that one left too...

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161022/df329d1f5ebd879688fcd9f12df7190c.jpg)(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161022/d5e408f4e8a4d19c684ee31afc7942dc.jpg)


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Unfortunately I use Altium Designer instead of Eagle. Can anyone tell me the PCB dimensions please?

Thanks and well done!