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Projects => Build Reports => Topic started by: madbean on December 30, 2011, 06:51:08 PM

Title: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on December 30, 2011, 06:51:08 PM
Not quite a build report yet, but it's almost finished. Here's the layout! Pic to follow soon.

Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: the3secondrule on December 30, 2011, 07:05:17 PM
oooooooooh yeah!
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: jimmybjj on December 30, 2011, 07:09:43 PM
Very cool layout.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: nzCdog on December 30, 2011, 08:06:19 PM
Don't make open the can of Whipple ass ;)
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on December 30, 2011, 09:52:01 PM
Sounds really amazing. Like it's barfing wahs out. The filter control makes a huge difference.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: the3secondrule on December 30, 2011, 09:55:28 PM
oh please tell me this will be out in the next batch? I have a whipple and a vox shell RIGHT HERE!


;D
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: LaceSensor on December 30, 2011, 10:16:22 PM
Forgive me what's a whipple in this context?

Edit YouTube tells me it's a type of inductor
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on December 30, 2011, 11:03:19 PM
It's a really sweet inductor...hand-made by a dude in NYC.

I'll have pins on it for red/yellow fasel inductors, too, but I can tell you that the Whipple is really something.

the3secondrule  - it's pretty much a done deal. Just need to box it up and see how well it plays with some dirt. The etched and manufactured layouts are almost identical, so I do plan on releasing this with the next batch.

If I can get my new Rump Roast done, too I'll demo both. It also just needs a box.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on December 30, 2011, 11:04:45 PM
I also used carbon comps and orange drops for the whole thing for the lol.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: cjkbug on December 31, 2011, 01:49:51 AM
I used a whipple in my sugarfoot wah. it sounds really sweet. yuk yuk
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: sgmezei on December 31, 2011, 02:02:37 AM
ahhh yeah. I can't wait. SUPER stoked and excited.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: jtn191 on December 31, 2011, 09:12:30 AM
very cool. first I've heard of the whipple inductor. Does anybody sell TDK-alikes?
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: Ang3lus on December 31, 2011, 02:07:57 PM
AWESOME

i've been waiting since last janurary for this :D

can't wait
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: bigmufffuzzwizz on January 01, 2012, 08:03:16 AM
Yes!!! Bring it on!
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: jstbrowsin on January 02, 2012, 12:23:04 AM
wicked,  awesome work Brian do you have a schematic handy please?  :-*

I would love to breadboard this and see what the fuss is about cheers  ;)
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on January 02, 2012, 03:13:09 AM
Quote from: jstbrowsin on January 02, 2012, 12:23:04 AM
wicked,  awesome work Brian do you have a schematic handy please?  :-*

I would love to breadboard this and see what the fuss is about cheers  ;)

Sure. I'm not positive that the SAG control will be included. I realized after testing my build out that I was actually running it at 6.3v (it was hooked into an LM317) and it sounded awesome. I'm going to do so more tests tomorrow to decide if there is any benefit to lower voltages or not. Everything else is for sure.

Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: jstbrowsin on January 02, 2012, 04:10:52 AM
nice, thanks Brian.
Just out of curiosity are the transistor choices because that's just what you had handy? I'm only asking because Q1 is a 2N3565, google says 2N3904 replacement but I'm not so sure cause there seems to be quite a bit of difference between the 2 specs. What spec (hfe, current gain, impedance etc) should I be looking at specifically to identify the ideal replacement please?     
TIA
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: Haberdasher on January 02, 2012, 04:47:02 AM
another great project!
Will this layout have pads for radial caps as well, or should I commence to orderin axials?
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: jkokura on January 02, 2012, 05:00:28 AM
Quote from: jstbrowsin on January 02, 2012, 04:10:52 AM
nice, thanks Brian.
Just out of curiosity are the transistor choices because that's just what you had handy? I'm only asking because Q1 is a 2N3565, google says 2N3904 replacement but I'm not so sure cause there seems to be quite a bit of difference between the 2 specs. What spec (hfe, current gain, impedance etc) should I be looking at specifically to identify the ideal replacement please?     
TIA

You could just get a 2N3565 from Smalbear...

Jacob
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: timbo_93631 on January 02, 2012, 05:35:21 AM
Quote from: jtn191 on December 31, 2011, 09:12:30 AM
very cool. first I've heard of the whipple inductor. Does anybody sell TDK-alikes?
I have modded a dozen or so Vox V847's with Whipple inductors and can say that they are really good.  The guy that makes them is really great to deal with too.  if you look at smallbear they have a variety of inductors too, but no TDK clones are out there to my knowledge.  Sometimes you see a TDK in a fasel style package that has been pulled from an organ on ebay.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: saxoftenest on January 02, 2012, 05:23:59 PM
YES!!!! Cannot wait for this one...
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: cjkbug on January 02, 2012, 08:06:16 PM
the "stack of dimes" inductors that small bear sells sound fantastic as well.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on January 02, 2012, 09:47:48 PM
Quote from: jkokura on January 02, 2012, 05:00:28 AM
Quote from: jstbrowsin on January 02, 2012, 04:10:52 AM
nice, thanks Brian.
Just out of curiosity are the transistor choices because that's just what you had handy? I'm only asking because Q1 is a 2N3565, google says 2N3904 replacement but I'm not so sure cause there seems to be quite a bit of difference between the 2 specs. What spec (hfe, current gain, impedance etc) should I be looking at specifically to identify the ideal replacement please?     
TIA

You could just get a 2N3565 from Smalbear...

Jacob

I indicated 2n3565 simply because it is what I used and my preference for medium gain transistors (part aesthetics, too which you will see when I post my build pic). You can certainly use a 2n3904 in its place. While I haven't compared the datasheets, they both fall into the ~300 Hfe range.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on January 03, 2012, 04:12:10 AM
Okay, so I'm ditching the sag control. No benefit, unless you really love lower output.

The only change will be the suggestion of a socket for the Q1 emitter resistor. Lowering it gives you more volume and gain, if you want it. I settled on 150R. You can go as far as grounding the pin, if you want.

So, just got grease up the treadle tomorrow and it should be good to go.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: JakeFuzz on January 03, 2012, 09:38:10 PM
So does that output buffer mean it will play nice with my Fuzz Faces? So incredibly ready for this thing!
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on January 04, 2012, 12:11:46 AM
Quote from: JakeFuzz on January 03, 2012, 09:38:10 PM
So does that output buffer mean it will play nice with my Fuzz Faces? So incredibly ready for this thing!

Maybe not all fuzzes. Fortunately, it is easy to bypass and the doc will have instructions on how to do that with a switch.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on January 04, 2012, 12:37:07 AM
After looking at some shell specs, I realized that the mounting hole arrangement was not too great on the previous layout. So, I went ahead and revised it to fit the three most common mounting areas in the Crybaby. It actually is a bit better layout in some ways.

Couple small changes to the schem and I went ahead and added the pads for a buffer bypass instead of some kind of kludge....just cleaner this way.

Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: sgmezei on January 04, 2012, 02:11:43 AM
This is looking great Brian! I am not sure about the Halo inductor pinout from Small Bear but I think I might use that one. Will there be pads for it? If not, I shall rig something up, or just get the whipple.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on January 04, 2012, 02:18:03 AM
Pin spacing on these inductors is a bit hard to come by. I did the Whipple directly from mine, and the Fasel is about 12.5mm. Unfortunately, Steve doesn't seem to provide pin spacing on the other inductors he has.

If anyone has specs on other inductors, please feel free to pass it along and I will do my best to include them.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on January 04, 2012, 05:50:11 PM
Here is the final build. Note all my mounting hackery from poor planning (I have since fixed the mounting hole positions). Sound is great....very WAAAHHH. I'm going to tweak the emitter resistor of Q1 a little more and play with the peak trimmer, but everything works and sounds as it should. I opted not to have a bypass for the output buffer on this one. Most likely I will build a couple of these in the future.

Video demo coming ASAP.

(http://www.madbeanpedals.com/builds/gallery/Weener0112.jpg)
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: kinski on January 04, 2012, 06:29:33 PM
Can't wait! I have a crybaby shell that needs some guts. I also have a red fasel that needs a home. But should I just skip it and get a Whipple? Is it worth it?
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: lloyd17 on January 04, 2012, 06:43:00 PM
I have a wah on the old BYOC board with both red fasel and whipple. The whipple is cleaner and less vocal to my ears but it works out well when dropping the value of the range cap or increasing gain. Both inductors in parallel are freakin sweet :o
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: Sigesmundninja on January 04, 2012, 06:45:30 PM
I want to start source parts for this build. Will the values in the schematics be in the final BOM you think? All so where do you find 4uf elec caps?
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: Haberdasher on January 04, 2012, 07:08:32 PM
mouser has axial 4uF caps (http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors-Leaded/_/N-75hqwZscv7?P=1z0z819Z1z0wrjm&Ns=Pricing%7C0); they're a bit pricey tho.  Would a 4u7 make a big difference?
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on January 04, 2012, 07:17:10 PM
I used one of the Sprague 4uFs from Mouser. My recommendation is get the 4uF if you can, but many modern wahs tend to use 4u7. One thing I could do is add some extra pads in parallel with that cap so you can combine two different values, says 2x 2u2 or 3u3 and 680n. Let me see what kind of room I have on the board.


Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on January 04, 2012, 07:22:03 PM
Quote from: Sigesmundninja on January 04, 2012, 06:45:30 PM
I want to start source parts for this build. Will the values in the schematics be in the final BOM you think? All so where do you find 4uf elec caps?

The values are good as it stands (it's what I've used in mine), but I will be suggesting a number of possible mods, so I don't know if that will affect what parts you order.

Possible mods are: using a rotary switch instead of a pot for the Freq control and using 3-4 fixed caps, or using a 11 position detente pot,  using a 1M blend pot in place of a switch for selecting between buffered and straight output. I will get the docs up well in advance this time, but not for at least another day or two. There are already a couple of mod suggestions on the schematic, too.

IOW, there will be the suggested BOM and then any number of mod to taste type additions. I want this to be somewhat open-ended like the Mudbunny.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on January 04, 2012, 07:23:44 PM
Quote from: lloyd17 on January 04, 2012, 06:43:00 PM
I have a wah on the old BYOC board with both red fasel and whipple. The whipple is cleaner and less vocal to my ears but it works out well when dropping the value of the range cap or increasing gain. Both inductors in parallel are freakin sweet :o

I didn't know you could do both in parallel on the BYOC. That's definitely neat.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: Sigesmundninja on January 04, 2012, 07:29:28 PM
Thank you for the quick response, I'm gonna go ahead and wait for the documents then!
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: saxoftenest on January 06, 2012, 06:41:54 PM
Brian, I'm curious (and forgive me if I've missed the answer) - Will there be extra pads for smaller caps? If not, what's the lead spacing?
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on January 06, 2012, 10:01:44 PM
All the film caps have additional pads underneath that are 5mm spaced. The electrolytics have additional pads at 2.5mm. So, you can use radial or axial caps in any combination you like.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: JakeFuzz on January 08, 2012, 07:22:59 PM
Hey Brian, are either the Freq or Peak controls useful enough to install as external controls. I am drilling the enclosure and am wondering which ones I should put on the outside or keep as trimmers. Thanks.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on January 09, 2012, 01:57:35 AM
Definitely the Freq should be external. The Peak maybe not so much. Although there are some variations to be had in setting the Q I think it's more set and forget.

For the Freq, you could use either a regular pot, or one of the 11 detente ones. I'll also have an alternative mod using different caps if you want to do set frequency filtering (like the Clyde wah). You could do that with either a 3-4 position rotary switch or with this one (if you want to make the little companion PCB):
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=581

(http://www.smallbearelec.com/catalog/MiniRotary.jpg)
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: jkokura on January 09, 2012, 02:08:21 AM
Austin (coldcraft) has a PCB you can buy for that switch.

Jacob
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: JakeFuzz on January 09, 2012, 03:01:54 AM
Quote from: madbean on January 09, 2012, 01:57:35 AM
Definitely the Freq should be external. The Peak maybe not so much. Although there are some variations to be had in setting the Q I think it's more set and forget.

Awesome, that's what I was thinking. That cap blender for the frequency cap is just too cool to leave inside. Ill have to get me one of those detent knobs so it stays in place! Thanks.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: timbo_93631 on January 09, 2012, 07:12:09 AM
When this PCB rolls out I still have a heap of 2N2925 pulls, same as the Thomas Organ Co. house numbered 5117 transistors.  I think smallbear got some awhile back as well.  Look for my post in the buy n sell section if interested.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: Sigesmundninja on January 12, 2012, 05:56:47 PM
Any chance there will be documents up for this baby soon?
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: sgmezei on January 23, 2012, 05:30:40 PM
Hey folks,
What are people recommending/ordering for the wah pot?
I am ordering from Small Bear and am assuming I should get the 100k "Black Bear" pot under the wah parts section.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: madbean on January 23, 2012, 05:51:21 PM
He offers a number of pots but I don't have a specific recommendation. I actually bought my pot along with the Whipple from the guy who makes them simply out of convenience. The standard ICAR is a good choice, but maybe there are some folks here that know a lot about wahs, pots and such. I'm certainly not an authority.
Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: marmaliser on January 23, 2012, 06:05:45 PM
Any word on the docs bean?  I have my finger on the buy button :) and a Pink wah shell and new pot waiting

Title: Re: Just a little weener
Post by: the3secondrule on January 23, 2012, 06:40:54 PM
I'm certainly no expert, but I have repaired a bunch of crybaby's, and found the black bear 100k to be a decent replacement, with a good sweep.

just my 2c

J

Quote from: sgmezei on January 23, 2012, 05:30:40 PM
Hey folks,
What are people recommending/ordering for the wah pot?
I am ordering from Small Bear and am assuming I should get the 100k "Black Bear" pot under the wah parts section.