There was a posting on the EEVblog about Autodesk buying Eagle
http://www.stockmarketwire.com/article/5367432/Premier-Farnell-sells-Cadsoft-business.html (http://www.stockmarketwire.com/article/5367432/Premier-Farnell-sells-Cadsoft-business.html)
This could have implications for the Eagle users here...
Andrew
Oh god...no please. Not Autodesk. Anything but that!
Yup. That sucks. Autodesk - giving you features you don't need or want for a 3X price increase since 199something.
I've got to say my initial reaction was that its a good thing, Autodesk make one of the best products for machinists. Fusion 360 is brilliant CAD/CAM all in one package & free for hobbyists and businesses turning over less than 100K. Hopefully they can do something like that with Eagle and remove the 100 x 80 size limit and if needs be put a pin limit in like Diptrace. I'm having to learn a 2nd package purely to make some programmable Looper boards and even now they're finished i don't feel 100% with them as its a completely different process.
Maybe it's a good thing. Perhaps they will implement groundbreaking new features such as "CTRL + C" for copy and "CTRL + V" for paste. :o
I actually like AutoDesk's TinkerCAD, which is an online 3D CAD program for the CAD challenged like me. I use it to make rudimentary models for 3D printing.
I use ACAD regularly and love it. That said I think the freebie days of Eagle may be numbered.... This may be the time for me to lean back in on DEX or DipTrace.
That sucks but explains their 50% off sale a month or so ago.
Without the free version I think adoption will dry up. Without the community support and libraries it's not as if Eagle does anything remarkably well. Well, maybe the autorouter. Snort.
Quote from: sturgeo on June 28, 2016, 06:09:33 PM
I've got to say my initial reaction was that its a good thing, Autodesk make one of the best products for machinists. Fusion 360 is brilliant CAD/CAM all in one package & free for hobbyists and businesses turning over less than 100K. Hopefully they can do something like that with Eagle and remove the 100 x 80 size limit and if needs be put a pin limit in like Diptrace. I'm having to learn a 2nd package purely to make some programmable Looper boards and even now they're finished i don't feel 100% with them as its a completely different process.
They also have a history of killing off great products, too (Softimage). Plus, if Eagle goes the yearly licensing or maintenance route that is pretty much the end of it for DIY guys.
I assume Eagle isn't the only application that checks consistency between the schematic and board, right? That's the main reason I started using it.
Quote from: culturejam on June 28, 2016, 11:54:55 PM
I assume Eagle isn't the only application that checks consistency between the schematic and board, right? That's the main reason I started using it.
I don't recall express PCB doing it. I hope this ends up going well, but I could easily see it going south quickly.
Quote from: sturgeo on June 28, 2016, 06:09:33 PM
Hopefully they can do something like that with Eagle and remove the 100 x 80 size limit and if needs be put a pin limit in like Diptrace. I'm having to learn a 2nd package purely to make some programmable Looper boards and even now they're finished i don't feel 100% with them as its a completely different process.
I'd honestly rather that they keep the board size, and unlimited pins. If you're in it as a hobbyist, not for commercial, the $169 licence is VERY worthwhile, and the 160x100 board size opens a LOT of options.
Well the Autodesk version is now live, offering free & 2 subscription models, interestingly the board size limitation is now on cm2 so I'm hoping I can create a board wide enough for my looper in eagle as I don't feel entirely confident with my Diptrace skills.
I've signed up for a month so we'll see soon!
Edit: Yup can now create boards outside of the old 100x80 limitation. I imagine the free version which limits boards to 80cm2 is the same.
Autorouter is now included in the standard edition it seems. And importing circuit blocks is a great feature. But, there doesn't seem to be any information on current Eagle 7 license holders. Sure would be nice to have my current license carry over for a year subscription. Anyway, $100 / year is totally reasonable, IMO. Can't see doing $500 for the premium version, though.
I'm still running 6.5... Think it's worth it for me to update?
Jacob
$100 a year isn't reasonable when I bought a lifetime subscription for under $200 just last year.
Edit: I just saw that the version with more than 2 layers (I just started making 4 layer boards) is $500 a year.
Well it's official:
http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/eagle-forum/eagle-quot-non-commercial-maker-license-quot/td-p/6816477
Continue using your Make License for your current version of EAGLE. If you wish to use EAGLE v8, consider investing on the EAGLE Standard Edition [ed: $500 per year] which is the option that closest matches the Maker License, this subscription provides you a board size limitation of 160cm^2.
Best Regards,
Ed
FUCK. THAT.
I'm not paying BMW prices for a re-badged Chrysler minivan
Quote from: EBRAddict on January 19, 2017, 05:56:33 PM
$100 a year isn't reasonable when I bought a lifetime subscription for under $200 just last year.
Your current license is not invalidated, but you won't get any further software upgrades without a subscription (8, 8.1, etc). At least this is how I understand the situation.
So the question is: what are the alternatives if it goes badly?
rullywowr weren't you using another software?
anyone have the .dmg files for 7? I haven't looked for them yet, but I was thinking about making my edition current, but not if I have to go up to 8.
Jacob
Jacob - http://web.cadsoft.de/ftp/eagle/program/7.7/eagle-mac64-7.7.0.zip
According to the forum, they will be doing a promotion for legacy users. So, I'm going to wait and see. I spent something like $500-600 on my current license and frankly I could use 7.7 indefinitely as far as PCB design for pedals. But if they are going to actively develop Eagle it might be worth an upgrade. I just don't have a lot of optimism when Autodesk is involved.
QuoteIt is perpetual, you can continue to use EAGLE V7 for all eternity if you wish without ever spending another cent. It hasn't been wasted, as an existing customer you are entitled to special pricing for the V8 subscription.
I've never ued Eagle but I make my living as a cad draftsman and have used autodesk products for decades. Their licensing can be a pain sometimes, but their support and software tools make my job easier with each new release. It may take a while for them to get it together, but it will likely be beneficial.
Quote from: AntKnee on January 20, 2017, 02:16:14 AM
I've never ued Eagle but I make my living as a cad draftsman and have used autodesk products for decades. Their licensing can be a pain sometimes, but their support and software tools make my job easier with each new release. It may take a while for them to get it together, but it will likely be beneficial.
For a person who uses the product every day the price increases and subscription are trivial when the cost is spread across all the work they do. I'd assume that these costs are then eventually passed on in the form of higher fees to their customer.
What irks me as a guy who uses the product a few hours a week is that my cost per project would go up considerably--with absolutely no benefit in productivity.
Just a FYI, if you upgrade to v8 your 7.7 license is void (from Hackaday):
If you ever upgrade to Eagle 8.0, you cannot legally let your subscription lapse and go back to your previously purchased Eagle 7.7.0 license:
"1.2.1 Effect of Upgrades. If Autodesk or a Reseller provides Licensee with an Upgrade to other Licensed Materials previously licensed to Licensee, the Licensed Materials previously licensed to Licensee and any other Autodesk Materials relating thereto will thereafter be deemed to be a "Previous Version." Except as set forth in Section 1.2.2 (Exception for Relationship Program Licensees), the license grant and other rights with respect to any Previous Version will terminate one hundred twenty (120) days after Installation of the Upgrade. Within such one hundred twenty (120) day period, except as set forth in Section 1.2.2 (Exception for Relationship Program Licensees), (a) Licensee must cease all use of any Previous Version and Uninstall all copies of the Previous Version, and (b) upon expiration of such period, such Previous Version will no longer constitute Licensed Materials but rather will be deemed to be Excluded Materials and Licensee will no longer have a license for any such Previous Version. At Autodesk's request, Licensee agrees to destroy or return to Autodesk or the Reseller from which they were acquired all copies of the Previous Version. Autodesk reserves the right to require Licensee to show satisfactory proof that all copies of any Previous Version have been Uninstalled and, if so requested by Autodesk, destroyed or returned to Autodesk or the Reseller from which they were acquired."
Perhaps the promotion for existing users will be a tube of Astroglide?
You could say that for all the subscription based models though...and tbh the cost isn't unreasonable.
I'm not very happy at the moment either as I just spent 1,100 last year on the premium version for the contract design work I do.
But...I am hopeful that there are some significant improvements in the future. The circuit modules are a nice step and the allowable board dimension changes. 3D modeling integration is what I'm hopeful for. Given how the last licensing model was set up, it stopped many people from upgrading and in turn used the free version or maker for commercial work, or using other tools. This I'm sure hurt cash flow and in turn Eagle has pretty much stayed stagnate for a very long time, minus some new features. The new model gives cash flow and hopefully continual upgrades to the workflow.
I would prefer to use Altium at this point but that is about 7-8k last time I checked and then you pay a yearly fee to stay up to date which is $300/yr? It's not even justifiable.
For most uses for the pedal dudes, $15 a month is perfectly reasonable for something, even at a hobby level. I pay $30 a month for adobe products which is a joke IMO. I use Autodesk Fusion 360 for modeling and drill plots and I'm excited on what the integration of the future will be as clients want 3D models, which is currently a bear in eagle without using lots of workarounds IMO.
Here's to the future Eagle! I'm excited for whats to come. (and just a little frustrated)
Josh
Hmm...I don't like that post from hackaday....I don't see how they can take something you already bought and paid for. Now I'm a little miffed...
Not surprised at all about the forfeiture of license when you upgrade. Exactly the kind of thing I expect from AD. Once you upgrade you are on the hook forever.
Subscription models for computer programs always stick in my craw.
The only real exception is for client-server multi-user stuff, like Steam, or World of Warcraft, where it makes sense. You're paying for access to Valve or Blizzard's servers.
But for stand-alone programs which never, ever need to phone home, it feels like a cash grab.
Quote from: madbean on January 19, 2017, 11:11:38 PM
Jacob - http://web.cadsoft.de/ftp/eagle/program/7.7/eagle-mac64-7.7.0.zip
According to the forum, they will be doing a promotion for legacy users. So, I'm going to wait and see. I spent something like $500-600 on my current license and frankly I could use 7.7 indefinitely as far as PCB design for pedals. But if they are going to actively develop Eagle it might be worth an upgrade. I just don't have a lot of optimism when Autodesk is involved.
QuoteIt is perpetual, you can continue to use EAGLE V7 for all eternity if you wish without ever spending another cent. It hasn't been wasted, as an existing customer you are entitled to special pricing for the V8 subscription.
Thanks Dude.
For my 2 cents - I will never upgrade from what i have here from Eagle unless it's less than $60 per year. I can pay up to $5 per month, but after that I may as well learn new software.
Jacob
Looks like we've got some time to get sharp on other software.
DipTrace? Seems like the best of the bunch for the non-professional options ($$$).
I'm looking at KiCad but also CircuitStudio and Diptrace. But I expect CS and DipTrace to go subscription model eventually, too. Diptrace non-comm license is $125. CS is $995 plus $150 annual maintenance. Those are 4+ layer licenses.
Assuming annual major version upgrades, over 5 years Eagle would cost $2500, CS $1595, Diptrace $625, and KiCad is donation-based.
I will just camp on Eagle 7.7 until OSHPark stops supporting it, so that gives me a few years. I don't need or want any of the new features offered in v8.
Well, it looks like AutoDesk heard the griping.
TL;DR version: standard license how has 4 layer, commercial or non-commercial use. $100 per year. Freeware requires a connection once upon install. Freeware can read/view and print gerbers for any file. All paid versions still have 14 day internet connection requirement, or they revert to freeware capability.
I will grudgingly put down the torch and pitchfork.
http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/eagle-forum/a-path-forward-for-the-make-license-a-step-up-for-standard/td-p/6823182
A path forward for the Make license, a step up for Standard...
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232 Views, 1 Replies
01-22-2017 06:10 PM
Hi All --
We're excited today to announce that the forthcoming release of EAGLE will have an expanded Standard Edition with more capabilities at a lower cost than ever before, and a change to network connectivity requirements for the Freeware version of EAGLE!
Firstly, the all-new Standard Edition will bump up the layer count to 4 signal layers (to enable those of you interested in building wireless, etc.) from the previous 2 layer limitation. This gives users of the previous Make and Make Professional licenses a path forward, for only $100/year or $15/month! What's more, this is a commercial license, so unlike previous licenses, this is available for use in anything you might hope to take to market.
How does this compare to the $169 Make and $269 Make Pro licenses from Cadsoft?
Though the $169 Make license from Cadsoft was capable of 6 layers, this was distinctly non-commercial. Thus this license could only be used for hobby projects and were you interested in commercializing your creation, you would be required to purchase a commercial equivalent.
The $269 Make Pro license was a 4 layer, annual license and though it was a commercial license; the Make Pro license required it be renewed each year, under a subscription model. If the product was not renewed, you would roll over to the Freeware license and layer restrictions would apply.
The not-so-Standard, "Standard" Edition
The Standard edition from Autodesk will now provide the equivalent capability of Cadsoft's 'Make Pro' license, for more than 2.5x off the Cadsoft price. Again, this is a commercial license which means you're safe using this for your next crowdfunding campaign, or even business applications in the workplace.
When will this be available?
Because we've moved away from big, monolithic releases with the move to subscription, you can buy the standard edition today and expect that within the next several weeks, the new capabilities will show up as an update in the software. So just to be clear: if you purchase Standard today, you are guaranteed access to the additional layer count with the next release of EAGLE, scheduled just a few short weeks away!
Network Changes to the Freeware Version
As mentioned on the EAGLE user forums, the forthcoming release of EAGLE will include a small but welcome tweak for many of you to the network requirement which affects the Freeware software. In the forthcoming release, a network connection will be required the first time you launch the freeware software. Beyond this point, you are not required to maintain a network connection, except when updating the Freeware tools.
Stated another way, you will only be required to login when you install the Freeware software, and each time you install a subsequent update / upgrade.
How will paid licenses operate?
As discussed in myriad other threads, a paid license will require you login once every 14 days. If you extend beyond 14 days, unlicensed, you can still open the software, produce output files, print, etc. however you won't be able to modify the content of a multi-layer file without logging in first to retrieve either your Standard or Premium license entitlement.
The software will automatically roll over to freeware and you will be able to use the free license however you will not be able to author new content beyond the scope of the freeware license without retrieving your license from the server.
Again, this all goes into effect in the next version which will be released in the next few weeks.
We're super excited about what these changes mean to the community and you can expect this release tempo to continue as we make the move from slow, monolithic release timelines, toward something of value coming regularly along the subscription path.
Best regards,
Matt Berggren - Autodesk
EAGLE, Tinkercad, Fusion
Going up to 4-layer is a great move. At least they are being a bit responsive to the community. Still, I'm not going to upgrade if it invalidates my 7 license permanently. Just dumb.
Quote from: madbean on January 23, 2017, 02:59:19 PM
Going up to 4-layer is a great move. At least they are being a bit responsive to the community. Still, I'm not going to upgrade if it invalidates my 7 license permanently. Just dumb.
Rather than copy-paste, here's a link from an Autodesk employee saying that it doesn't affect the 7 license.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/eagle/the-autodesk-eagle-edition/msg1119838/#msg1119838
I use inventor and fusion360 for work. (Btw Probably the most intuitive ui for cad/cam I've seen.)
I would expect that it's going to be mostly unchanged in the short term but over time, it should be much improved, even if only through a larger user base and libraries. I'm sure they bought eagle to use some of its features in a different product and compete with other layout packages.
All that said, not much wrong with Diptrace for pedals imho.
$100 is far more palatable even at the hobby level. I use AutoCAD on a regular basis and their support is very good and a solid product.
Altium came out with a cross-grade offer for Circuit Studio: $500 for a perpetual license and if you want to stay current, an ongoing annual maintenance fee of $150.
http://www.altium.com/eagle-switch/circuitstudio/#page2 (http://www.altium.com/eagle-switch/circuitstudio/#page2)
There don't appear to be any size or layer restrictions but I noticed a note in the FAQ:
QuoteWhile there are no 'hard limits' per se, the software has been engineered to make it impractical for use with large designs. To this end, the PCB Editor will start to exibit performance degradation when editing designs containing 5000 pads, becoming virtually unusable with designs containing 50,000 pads. Degradation itself takes the form of progressive slow-down in PCB editing functions (such as routing, placing components, polygon pours, etc).
It looks pretty full featured, but having played around with it some, it is probably overkill for layout out guitar pedals or basic analog electronics. If you're working on projects with microcontrollers and digital or mixed-mode, it looks fantastic. It uses the Altium library vault which is *the* place component manufacturers want to put their libraries for their customers.
I've done a fair amount of reading on Circuit Studio and it looks great on some angles. It's Alltium without all the bells and whistles, but the support is non existent for it and they haven't even made strides to fix the bugs from years ago from what I've seen. Everything is done through 3rd party, Element 14.
There's a couple other red flags about CircuitStudio: I can't find release notes on any of their software releases for one... the support staff were on Element14 bragging how they were going to be at version 2.0 by the end of 2016 but are still at 1.3. It's a bad sign when you can't see a timely progression of bug fixes.
Another is the components in the Altium Vault cannot be copied and modified into custom components. That's a show stopper for me, I think.
Alltium is 40% off atm
I must say I've been drooling over it as of late.
Sadly it's out of the range of all of us still....
Just now getting up to date with this development.
For now I can stick with EAGLE 7.5, but I've been tempted to try and learn KiCad anyway.
Does anyone know if EAGLE libraries can be imported into KiCad? In particular, I've taken the madbean library circa 2014 and modded it heavily for my own use... is there a way to use these for schems/boards in KiCad?