http://store.ishibashi.co.jp/ec/pro/disp/1/img/34/sub_06-6053447265_l.jpg
The build quality is shockingly awful. For $439.99 new? I wouldn't pay more than $30 for one. These things can't possibly be gig-worthy? In just this photo, I'm concerned by:
- sockets on the SPDT with heatshrink to hide the fact that they're likely only held on there by solder
- 30-50% of the components socketed, including one flying lead that looks like it's only connect by sockets
- poorly cut perf that looks like it's mounted with 3M tape?
- standing resistors whose leads look ready to short out on each other
- socketed clippers that just hang between the board and switch
How are these things not failing left and right?
What is it that P.T. Barnum allegedly said?....
I do wonder what their return rate is though ::)
Wow. That's some creepy Dr Bronner's soap shit right there.
Man, the mojo is getting all over the place on that thing.
It looks like he spent more time on the writing.
Yes, but ignore all of that stuff, and this thing looks quite good! Wait-- nevermind. The op amp isn't fully seated in that socket either.
I'd be really annoyed to spend a ton of money and open it up to see build quality of that calibre. I've only been building for 2 years and I'd be too embarrassed to send something like that out.
Interesting. Yet you look at the detail and care used in the switch wiring. Maybe the return rate accounts for the price.
Thanks for sharing this, I'm completely blown away at the sloppy mess in there. Wow.
I confess that I've actually built one of these a long time ago. It's in my to-be-rebuilt pile because I'm not proud of my early build quality, and my crappy Sharpie labeling is nearly worn off now, but I suddenly feel ok letting people look at it before I put it back on the pile. :P
(http://i.imgur.com/Nebdsxnm.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/MfDOuaMm.jpg)
Quote from: EBK on October 16, 2017, 04:20:09 PM
I confess that I've actually built one of these a long time ago. It's in my to-be-rebuilt pile because I'm not proud of my early build quality, and my crappy Sharpie labeling is nearly worn off now, but I suddenly feel ok letting people look at it before I put it back on the pile. :P
(http://i.imgur.com/Nebdsxnm.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/MfDOuaMm.jpg)
This one looks nicer than the real thing.
I can totally understand sloppy builds when you're just starting, but the serials for these things are in the high 2000s. It's almost like effort was put into NOT improving.
that has a little something for everyone ... oddly cut perfboard, point to point component wiring, 90 degree bends in solid core wire, insulation where it doesn't matter, high quality caps with junk resistors, socketed parts in a production piece, stand-up resistors and laid flat resistors ... short of the drilling pattern being askew this couldn't touch more of my OCD
For me, the best part is that these are just slightly modded tubescreamers, but the people who bought them after a long time on a waiting list (yep ???) insist that they are somehow magical and in no way comparable to a tubescreamer! ::)
And, just so you know I'm not making this up:
https://reverb.com/item/501615-landgraff-dynamic-overdrive-2013 ("His custom order pedals are gone over a little more and he uses 4% silver solder for more touch sensitivity. ") I hope none of you read that while sipping a beverage....
Quote from: EBK on October 16, 2017, 06:41:03 PM
And, just so you know I'm not making this up:
https://reverb.com/item/501615-landgraff-dynamic-overdrive-2013 ("His custom order pedals are gone over a little more and he uses 4% silver solder for more touch sensitivity. ") I hope none of you read that while sipping a beverage....
Some things that caught my eye....
"The way he builds these pedals are truly a lost art!"
It was probably lost for a reason ::)
Also, I am guessing the additional $300+ dollars in the asking price (on top of the parts and workmanship costs) were for that AWESOME box swag ;)
I don't know what to say. The swirl paint job is nice, but no labelling? side mount jacks? Who needs a battery? Why would you solder a socket to a switch that is just standing free in the middle of the enclosure and then put non soldered legs into the socket?
However, considered all the cables going back and forth, the wiring is quite nicely done with the right angles and stuff. Still not even worth 50$ for me. After 40 builds on vero, I'd invest in a pcb layout the latest. It's neither expensive nor complicated for a build that size.
at least we learned about the magic of silver solder, which is standard RoHS compatible solder! I still prefer PbSn 40:60, but I mean, I don't need touch sensitivity
After some digging, it turns out that the sockets are supposed to be for easy modding by the buyer. Landgraff used to sell kits to tweak the thing. I don't see any for sale now though, so why keep making them that way? Clay Jones cloned the thing without all the sockets and mojo parts and his go for $1000+, so maybe the touch sensitivity is really in the goop.
BRB, gonna build a Landgraff clone that doesn't suck.
Here's a better vero layout you can use.
http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/02/landgraff-dynamic-overdrive.html?m=1
(Or just use a tubescreamer board from anywhere, if you don't mind losing the circular symmetric tone-shaping cavity array feature )
Edit: I feel like I'm starting to sound too mean.... Toning it down a bit.
I wouldn't buy one based on all self-righteous religious rubbish on inside.
If only there were a commercially available PCB one could use!
http://www.rullywow.com/product/glasshammer/
Quote from: playpunk on October 16, 2017, 09:07:46 PM
If only there were a commercially available PCB one could use!
http://www.rullywow.com/product/glasshammer/
I wonder what the "TOAN" knob does.... ::)
Quote from: Willybomb on October 16, 2017, 08:53:54 PM
I wouldn't buy one based on all self-righteous religious rubbish on inside.
How about:
BUILT BY ABDUL ALHAZRED (NECRONOMICON 3:1666)
DYNAMIC OVERDRIVE
#666666666666666666666666666 6-6-66
ELDER GODS AMPS & PEDALS
WHERE CTHULHU IS LORD!
MADE FOR ARKHAM ASYLUM
CTHULHU IS COMING SOON!!!
PHTAGN☭
PYONGYANG, NK
SHUB-NIGGURATH BLESS BEST KOREA!
Quote from: mremic01 on October 16, 2017, 09:22:05 PM
Quote from: Willybomb on October 16, 2017, 08:53:54 PM
I wouldn't buy one based on all self-righteous religious rubbish on inside.
How about:
BUILT BY ABDUL ALHAZRED (NECRONOMICON 3:1666)
DYNAMIC OVERDRIVE
#666666666666666666666666666 6-6-66
ELDER GODS AMPS & PEDALS
WHERE CTHULHU IS LORD!
MADE FOR ARKHAM ASYLUM
CTHULHU IS COMING SOON!!!
PHTAGN☭
PYONGYANG, NK
SHUB-NIGGURATH BLESS BEST KOREA!
Ramen!
It's touch sensitive. Don't touch anything or somethings going to shunt to ground!!
In all seriousness, this is one of the worst gut shots I've seen in a long, long time.
I would be embarrassed if this was one of my builds, and I've built some pretty shoddy circuits!
Religious people always weird me out a bit, but I honestly have no idea how I would react to meeting someone who insists on writing (3:16) after their first name. That is a level of zealotry that I cannot really comprehend.
And that they continue the writing under the components as well! Just... why?!? I'm not exactly proud about ANY of my gutshots, but if I build a pedal that looked liked this I'd weld the damn thing shut, let alone put crap on the inside to encourage reading. Boggling.
I just imagine giving the thing a good stomp to pump up a lead line and knocking half the components onto the floor. I wonder if random AM interference picked up by an open amp cable circuit could count as a solo. Quick, someone get John Cage on the line, I've got a brilliant idea for his next work...
Quote from: somnif on October 16, 2017, 11:44:46 PM
That is a level of zealotry that I cannot really comprehend.
It's just a kind of virtue signaling. Or showing how much of a super fan you of are of your favorite sports team because it's so baked into your identity that
everything has to be about your fandom. Writing all this crap all over the pedal guts is pretty clearly something Jesus spoke out about in Matthew 6:5-8, but no one's going to write those verses all over a pedal because they're not sexy enough (that special showy-religious kind of sexy). It's especially unsexy when the bible says you shouldn't be doing something that you
really really want to do
in Jesus's name.
Well, I finished the LDO clone on a highly modified tonepad etch. Sounds like a TS but with more gain on tap. I like the asymmetrical silicones much better than the LEDs, so I'm not sure why Clay Jones went with those.
gutshot is kinda amazing i have to say, proper method to madness situation.
(though this is so good i'm considering writing it on the back plate of next build)
QuoteBUILT BY ABDUL ALHAZRED (NECRONOMICON 3:1666)
DYNAMIC OVERDRIVE
#666666666666666666666666666 6-6-66
ELDER GODS AMPS & PEDALS
WHERE CTHULHU IS LORD!
MADE FOR ARKHAM ASYLUM
CTHULHU IS COMING SOON!!!
PHTAGN☭
PYONGYANG, NK
SHUB-NIGGURATH BLESS BEST KOREA!
and maybe this can go on the front
Quote4% silver solder for more touch sensitivity
I wasn't paying attention to effects when the whole Landgraff / Clay Jones storm happened, and the TGP / cork-sniffing attitude to guitar effects has always puzzled me. I guess Landgraff was active from about 1999 to 2015 - he passed away a couple of years ago - and I wonder if, having started building in this construction style, he was effectively trapped in it by his audience. Most likely, he just kept doing whatever he was used to, but I bet if he had started making pedals with all modern board-mounted components on a nice green PCB, people would have said the old ones sounded better than the new.
Over on TDPRI, someone complained about buying a Wampler delay ("designed and hand-built in the USA" or something), and finding a surface-mount PCB. I don't know what this person was expecting - a point-to-point wired delay pedal? Guitarists.
Joyo has better build quality than that!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Guys, this was the general state of the "boutique industry" in the late 1990s into mid-2000s. People saw that kind of build and knew it was not the same as Boss, and obviously "hand made". Throw that it in with some spurious claims of "haunting mids" and other really questionable marketing tactics, and people made a lot of money on what was essentially hobbyist work. And at the time, hobby builds were pretty sloppy by our current standards, I should mention. Today's DIY quality level is stellar.
And frankly, this kind of terrible quality at high prices is what motivated to get very involved at FreeStompBoxes, because at the time it was rife (although there were still very high-quality brands, of course). I will admit I probably went a little overboard in the zealousness of the witch-hunts I participated in, but the underlying "mission" of exposing high-priced garbage is something I'm still proud of.
Gradually, the level of quality of boutique pedals began to rise. Now I'm not saying it was in large part because of the ruthless and relentless exposure of the guys who were heavily involved at FSB, but... it was in large part because of the ruthless and relentless exposure of the guys who were heavily involved at FSB. ;D Just between Brian and I, we traced something like 30 pedals. And there were another 15-20 guys who put up similar numbers.
I should write a book. 8)
Quote from: mremic01 on October 16, 2017, 09:22:05 PM
How about:
BUILT BY ABDUL ALHAZRED (NECRONOMICON 3:1666)
DYNAMIC OVERDRIVE
#666666666666666666666666666 6-6-66
ELDER GODS AMPS & PEDALS
WHERE CTHULHU IS LORD!
MADE FOR ARKHAM ASYLUM
CTHULHU IS COMING SOON!!!
PHTAGN☭
PYONGYANG, NK
SHUB-NIGGURATH BLESS BEST KOREA!
I like you.
Wow, on so many levels.
Somebody should send a message to the guy on reverb offering to build one with 8% silver solder for super extra touch sensitivity.
Thanks for the perspective cj
Quote from: Matmosphere on October 17, 2017, 04:08:58 AM
Wow, on so many levels.
Somebody should send a message to the guy on reverb offering to build one with 8% silver solder for super extra touch sensitivity.
I have a couple feet of 70% silver solder, if you want to take the mojo to levels previously only attained by smoking the vapors of Hendrix's smoldering strat. Downside, it melts at ~1400F, so.... may want to watch out about that.
Quote from: mremic01 on October 16, 2017, 09:22:05 PM
Quote from: Willybomb on October 16, 2017, 08:53:54 PM
I wouldn't buy one based on all self-righteous religious rubbish on inside.
How about:
BUILT BY ABDUL ALHAZRED (NECRONOMICON 3:1666)
DYNAMIC OVERDRIVE
#666666666666666666666666666 6-6-66
ELDER GODS AMPS & PEDALS
WHERE CTHULHU IS LORD!
MADE FOR ARKHAM ASYLUM
CTHULHU IS COMING SOON!!!
PHTAGN☭
PYONGYANG, NK
SHUB-NIGGURATH BLESS BEST KOREA!
Meh. Same same. Zealotry in all it's forms is ridiculous, regardless of it's inspiration.
Haha that's amazing.
A long time ago I ordered a T1M buffer/splitter. Later I saw gutshots of his pedals, and I was horrified. It's a shame I cant' find them now, but here's an exemple (only google preview as the pic was deleted) with poor wiring, vero and glue all over. :D
Sorry for derailing the thread but it was too tempting! :)
Quote from: culturejam on October 17, 2017, 04:00:55 AM
Guys, this was the general state of the "boutique industry" in the late 1990s into mid-2000s. ....
Hard to admit, but without the Landgraffs and BFs of the pedal world, there wouldn't have been those level witch hunts CJ mentioned, then there wouldn't of been mountains of info for us mortals to learn.
All one needs now is a time machine and a complete lack of any sort of morals, then you could go back and be one of "the" booteek guys. Those pedals were definitely "different" than same-day BOSS offerings, but that's about where the pro's end.....I can't remember the last time someone came here or BYOC and posted a "hey, it's my first build" that didn't blow that outta the water. I think with Landgraff, folks were mesmerized by the right angle wiring.
Quote from: askwho69 on October 17, 2017, 02:56:11 AM
Joyo has better build quality than that!
I've happily, and without a trace of sarcasm, recommended Joyo to many guitarists short on cash and eager to expand their sound possibilities.
Besides, more than one Joyo has become a $400 pedal at the hands of unscrupulous "boutique" builders with nothing more than the addition of paint and goop. :o
I hope someone buys one and plays the darkest Black Metal with it.
It's what the Landgraff's would want...
Quote from: mremic01 on October 16, 2017, 09:22:05 PM
How about:
BUILT BY ABDUL ALHAZRED (NECRONOMICON 3:1666)
DYNAMIC OVERDRIVE
#666666666666666666666666666 6-6-66
ELDER GODS AMPS & PEDALS
WHERE CTHULHU IS LORD!
MADE FOR ARKHAM ASYLUM
CTHULHU IS COMING SOON!!!
PHTAGN☭
PYONGYANG, NK
SHUB-NIGGURATH BLESS BEST KOREA!
Thanks, I went crazy reading that. Now I'm crazy. Happy?
Anyone who's never read The Story, enjoy: http://www.boutiquegeartalk.com/pedals-effects-multi-effects/1486.htm
Quote from: midwayfair on October 17, 2017, 12:30:55 PM
Thanks, I went crazy reading that. Now I'm crazy. Happy?
Anyone who's never read The Story, enjoy: http://www.boutiquegeartalk.com/pedals-effects-multi-effects/1486.htm
You haven't already gone crazy reading threads at TGP?
That story was what got me looking for LDO gutshuts. It's amazing how much I identify with Clay's experiences. I had a distributor for less than a year who was trying to turn me into his goose. It didn't work out, but he fed me the same kind of crap that Blues Angel was telling Clay. Apparently, my klones were more 3D and dynamic than the 'sterile' KTR. And apparently my parts were 'hand chosen, tested by ear, and only the best'... from Tayda and Mouser. This guy is now making his own pedals and getting tons of praise on TGP.
Quote from: reddesert on October 17, 2017, 02:53:50 AM
I wonder if, having started building in this construction style, he was effectively trapped in it by his audience. Most likely, he just kept doing whatever he was used to, but I bet if he had started making pedals with all modern board-mounted components on a nice green PCB, people would have said the old ones sounded better than the new.
That's definitely true. I'm afraid to make changes, or post a new one for sale on Reverb that has a single part that
looks different, because I have customers who have more than one of my builds and insist they sound different, wanting to know what I did to make the special one so magical. They're built with the same parts, from the same little baggies. I tested them before they went out. They sounded the same. Once I changed the labeling slightly and got people asking me what I changed on the inside of the new version. Nothing? Is nothing an answer they can accept?
Quote from: playpunk on October 16, 2017, 09:07:46 PM
If only there were a commercially available PCB one could use!
http://www.rullywow.com/product/glasshammer/
I really like the Glass Hammer. About 20 bucks in parts and 2 hours to build and box.
Quote from: playpunk on October 16, 2017, 09:07:46 PM
If only there were a commercially available PCB one could use!
http://www.rullywow.com/product/glasshammer/
but then you won't get the advertised consistent performance....
"hand wired, point-to-point, socketed circuit boards, that permit her to voice each and every pedal, resulting in a consistency of performance impossible to achieve by most other "boutique" builders who use printed circuit boards."
Quote from: mremic01 on October 17, 2017, 02:04:52 PM
Quote from: midwayfair on October 17, 2017, 12:30:55 PM
Thanks, I went crazy reading that. Now I'm crazy. Happy?
Anyone who's never read The Story, enjoy: http://www.boutiquegeartalk.com/pedals-effects-multi-effects/1486.htm
You haven't already gone crazy reading threads at TGP?
That story was what got me looking for LDO gutshuts. It's amazing how much I identify with Clay's experiences. I had a distributor for less than a year who was trying to turn me into his goose. It didn't work out, but he fed me the same kind of crap that Blues Angel was telling Clay. Apparently, my klones were more 3D and dynamic than the 'sterile' KTR. And apparently my parts were 'hand chosen, tested by ear, and only the best'... from Tayda and Mouser. This guy is now making his own pedals and getting tons of praise on TGP.
Quote from: reddesert on October 17, 2017, 02:53:50 AM
I wonder if, having started building in this construction style, he was effectively trapped in it by his audience. Most likely, he just kept doing whatever he was used to, but I bet if he had started making pedals with all modern board-mounted components on a nice green PCB, people would have said the old ones sounded better than the new.
That's definitely true. I'm afraid to make changes, or post a new one for sale on Reverb that has a single part that looks different, because I have customers who have more than one of my builds and insist they sound different, wanting to know what I did to make the special one so magical. They're built with the same parts, from the same little baggies. I tested them before they went out. They sounded the same. Once I changed the labeling slightly and got people asking me what I changed on the inside of the new version. Nothing? Is nothing an answer they can accept?
Every time I read that story I shake my head. BS is always BS.
This is what should be written inside "boutique" pedals:
"Please update your
account to enable
3rd party hosting"
Quote from: lars on October 18, 2017, 03:14:38 PM
This is what should be written inside "boutique" pedals:
"Please update your
account to enable
3rd party hosting"
I'm totally using that graphic on the front a pedal
Quote from: pickdropper on October 18, 2017, 03:24:48 PM
Quote from: lars on October 18, 2017, 03:14:38 PM
This is what should be written inside "boutique" pedals:
"Please update your
account to enable
3rd party hosting"
I'm totally using that graphic on the front a pedal
Great minds think alike. I made a round decal for a stomp switch one day on a lark:
(http://i.imgur.com/zcnRXAGm.jpg)
Was thinking of actually making a complete pedal with it, but probably won't. I have too much stuff in my queue.
I hope you are seriously going to make a pedal on that theme. A photobucket brigade delay, perhaps?
Quote from: midwayfair on October 17, 2017, 12:30:55 PM
Quote from: mremic01 on October 16, 2017, 09:22:05 PM
How about:
BUILT BY ABDUL ALHAZRED (NECRONOMICON 3:1666)
DYNAMIC OVERDRIVE
#666666666666666666666666666 6-6-66
ELDER GODS AMPS & PEDALS
WHERE CTHULHU IS LORD!
MADE FOR ARKHAM ASYLUM
CTHULHU IS COMING SOON!!!
PHTAGN☭
PYONGYANG, NK
SHUB-NIGGURATH BLESS BEST KOREA!
Thanks, I went crazy reading that. Now I'm crazy. Happy?
Anyone who's never read The Story, enjoy: http://www.boutiquegeartalk.com/pedals-effects-multi-effects/1486.htm
Had never read the story til you posted it Jon. Thanks it's a good read.
Apparently Brian Wampler's podcast this week is about this very story. Wonder what his perspective will be, or if he'll have any other stories of the early days of the boutique industry.
Just listened to the Wampler podcast. It was mostly just them rehashing Clay Jones's story, but they did mention Function f(x) transparency in putting the schematic on the box.
Yeah, they didn't really add anything to it. They just retold part of it. I was hoping for something a little beyond this is a story.
The Function F(x) namedrop was cool though.
This makes me feel really good about giving pedals away all the time.
Quote from: Matmosphere on October 31, 2017, 09:58:51 PM
The Function F(x) namedrop was cool though.
I was not upset that they mentioned us. 8)
my stupid logic
if they hire somebody like king of layout, etcher wizard, decal guru and solder wizard like Jack Deville, CJ, Brian, Pickdropper, M-kresol, Cody, Juansolo, etc
how much they charged then?
Are the landgraffs being sold by BA music NOS or is someone else making them? Didn't his wife help him?
Quote from: culturejam on October 17, 2017, 04:00:55 AM
Guys, this was the general state of the "boutique industry" in the late 1990s into mid-2000s. People saw that kind of build and knew it was not the same as Boss, and obviously "hand made". Throw that it in with some spurious claims of "haunting mids" and other really questionable marketing tactics, and people made a lot of money on what was essentially hobbyist work. And at the time, hobby builds were pretty sloppy by our current standards, I should mention. Today's DIY quality level is stellar.
And frankly, this kind of terrible quality at high prices is what motivated to get very involved at FreeStompBoxes, because at the time it was rife (although there were still very high-quality brands, of course). I will admit I probably went a little overboard in the zealousness of the witch-hunts I participated in, but the underlying "mission" of exposing high-priced garbage is something I'm still proud of.
Gradually, the level of quality of boutique pedals began to rise. Now I'm not saying it was in large part because of the ruthless and relentless exposure of the guys who were heavily involved at FSB, but... it was in large part because of the ruthless and relentless exposure of the guys who were heavily involved at FSB. ;D Just between Brian and I, we traced something like 30 pedals. And there were another 15-20 guys who put up similar numbers.
I should write a book. 8)
CJ, thanks for this interesting perspective.
I'm curious if some of this has to do with shifts in the background of people who got into musical electronics at the hobby (or professional) level. I built a pedal in college, about 1989, on perfboard, with parts I got mostly at Radio Shack. I'm not gonna say it was a masterpiece but the construction wasn't as outsider-art as this Landgraff. Back then, you had to get information from books or magazines and needed to be able to read a schematic. I had taken an electronics lab class. Looking at books like Anderton's "Electronic Projects for Musicians," they're intended to be read by musicians, but more from a EE perspective than a tone-boutique.
I wonder if some increase in the available information via the internet meant that mojo-peddlers without that engineer tendency/training started to build and market pedals, with an "improvised" level of build quality. I'm not even sure when the concepts of mojo parts and boutique pedals arose - perhaps a transmutation of the vintage-guitar mojo into the effects world. Back then, I only built my own pedal because real pedals were expensive and I was cheap, and thought it would be neat. I couldn't figure out how to get a real stomp switch then. (Or maybe I could have mail-ordered one from Digi-Key but it would have been like $20 with shipping.)
Sometime in the 90s, collections of MacPaint-drawn schematics started to be available on the web, and I collected a directory full of them, but I drifted away from thinking about it because frankly, I suck at playing guitar. Suddenly it's 20 years later and the amount of information and sophistication available to the DIY-er is remarkable, but I missed the whole era of the Landgraff / Clay Jones story, which maybe is not such a loss.
there's no doubt that the availability of information is pretty large compared to even 5 years ago. the uptick in the availability of prefab pcbs has done more to lessen the improvised level of build quality than just about anything else.
Quote from: thesmokingman on November 06, 2017, 03:01:59 PM
there's no doubt that the availability of information is pretty large compared to even 5 years ago. the uptick in the availability of prefab pcbs has done more to lessen the improvised level of build quality than just about anything else.
I reckon that more and more boutique builders are resorting to SMD also helps to improve build quality in that field.