A question for madbean (and everyone) about the trade section

[chromesphere]

A suggestion / question I guess you could say. Sorry if this thread is in the wrong area, not sure where to put it.

I had someone contact me saying that they didn't receive a package that was sent.  Totally believe this person is telling the truth.  I offered him a refund and am currently awaiting his response, its all good.

But, what if someone that wasn't so honest decided to take advantage of the friendly people around here?  Whats preventing someone from randomly / continuely claiming they didn't receive a package and asking for a refund? The easiest way around this I could think of was a refund register.  Somewhere everyone can put non-personal details of refunds they have made. Alias and date would really all that would be needed. Lost packages are 1 in 100.  If the same persons name keeps showing up, its going to become obvious that person is taken advantage of the system.  I have YET to meet anyone on this forum to suggest that would happen, this forum is my idea of a utopian society.  But unfortunately we are not impervious to a-holes.  Their out there!

Just an idea, maybe its not necessary.  Suggestions / improvements / criticisms / etc welcome.

Paul

[jimilee]

A suggestion / question I guess you could say. Sorry if this thread is in the wrong area, not sure where to put it.

I had someone contact me saying that they didn't receive a package that was sent.  Totally believe this person is telling the truth.  I offered him a refund and am currently awaiting his response, its all good.

But, what if someone that wasn't so honest decided to take advantage of the friendly people around here?  Whats preventing someone from randomly / continuely claiming they didn't receive a package and asking for a refund? The easiest way around this I could think of was a refund register.  Somewhere everyone can put non-personal details of refunds they have made. Alias and date would really all that would be needed. Lost packages are 1 in 100.  If the same persons name keeps showing up, its going to become obvious that person is taken advantage of the system.  I have YET to meet anyone on this forum to suggest that would happen, this forum is my idea of a utopian society.  But unfortunately we are not impervious to a-holes.  Their out there!

Just an idea, maybe its not necessary.  Suggestions / improvements / criticisms / etc welcome.

Paul

I send everything priority with a tracking number since it's almost the same price as first class when sending pedals.

[chromesphere]

Hmm that's always an option of course!  Unfortunately I think if I was going to start sending things tracked (from Australia) people would stop buying stuff!  If most people send tracked, probably isn't a problem anyway.
Paul

[jimilee]

Right,unfortunately there is only this topic under emporium rules. If we encounter a bad guy, we will just flog him I'm suppose! We should have a no douchebag rule that states if you're going to be one, you can't hang out here. Seriously though, I guess we are all just kind of on the honor system.
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=3.0

[chromesphere]

Right,unfortunately there is only this topic under emporium rules. If we encounter a bad guy, we will just flog him I'm suppose! We should have a no douchebag rule that states if you're going to be one, you can't hang out here.

hahaha!  good one!

To be honest, probably best to keep it that way.  The best thing about THIS PARTICULAR FORUM is that its not overly regulated like other...ahem...diy...stomp....GUITAR....pedal forums...

Paul

[Stomptown]

I don't think adding a tracking number is always necessary, but it may be a good idea if you are unfamiliar with the buyer. Luckily most of the people on here are pretty active in the community so it's probably more trouble than its worth to actively regulate transactions...

[Mike B.]

I've sold a good bit of stuff on here and the other forum, and have yet to run into this issue. Like Jimi though, I usually send Priority with delivery confirmation if possible - protects buyer and seller, and usually gets it there a day or two sooner. It's also not that much more in the US, but I can see it being cost prohibitive from Oz. I've heard lots of stories as well about packages taking weeks to clear US customs - how long has it been?

[jimilee]

Yeah Rej recently had a transaction go bad on him when he shipped some stuff from Canada to the US, I don't know if the shipment has ever shown up our not a month later

[stevie1556]

Years ago I designed a box for my 2003 Astra SRi that closed the windows when you deadlocked the car. There were 2 Astra forums I was on, and the main one I used I never had a problem with the my units being delivered by normal post. There was for some reason, a stupid rivalry with the other forum, and only about 1 in 5 units got delivered. I started sending them recorded delivery so they had to be signed for, but then every single one of them got delivered and none 'lost' in the post!

A couple of years ago, the misses sold some GHD hair straighteners on ebay, woman paid through paypal, sent us an email saying she didn't like them and wanted a refund, then filed a claim on paypal saying she didn't receive them. We even used her email as evidence, but paypal still found in her favour and gave her a full refund. We ended up taking her to court, not only for the money back (which was about £100) but more for the principle. I've ordered stuff on ebay before, it hasn't arrived, and the seller is nice enough to send out a replacement, then the original one turns up. I've always offered to either send one back or to pay for the other one as I believe you need to treat people the way you want to be treated.

I'm going to apologise, as I wasn't going to say all the above but I got carried away, but the moral of my stories is that I now send everything by recorded post and send the buyer the tracking number.

Sent from my thumbs using Tapatalk!

[chromesphere]

Totally agree stevie and I often do the same.  That's how I post on ebay as well (registered).  Sorts out any questions as far as the delivery goes. But posting from Australia registered to overseas for some of the items I sell on here is not going to work.  Like, a pcb, a ge set, some small components. Registered post is ridiculously expensive.  It goes from $3 to $15!  I'll just have to take the risk and factor in the odd missing parcel into my prices.
Anyway, I don't think the refund register idea is going to work.  Too many holes.  Just wanted to see what you guys thought.
Paul

[stevie1556]

Just an idea, I was on a forum years ago that had a trader status in the left hand side under the username, where the post count is. It showed a rating and you could tell from that if someone was good to buy/sell with. Could be easy to put on the forum depending on what forum software is used here.

Sent from my thumbs using Tapatalk!

[pickdropper]

I think part of it depends on the value of the goods being sent.  If you are sending a completed pedal, I would probably err on the side of caution and get a tracking number.

If it is a couple of transistors, diodes or a PCB, it may not be worth the cost of tracking (based on your estimates listed above) as it would put off all potential buyers.  Of course, your potential loss with that is also much smaller.

I've sold quite a few things around here and had very little trouble.  So far, I've only had one shipment go walkabout, and I have zero doubt that the seller is telling the truth.  Unfortunately, it does happen from time to time.  If it happens often enough, maybe the solution is to leave enough margin in your pricing to absorb the occasional refund or replacement.  That is done in business all of the time.

If it happens on multiple occasions with the same person, then you could simply tell them that any future orders would require tracking at additional expense (that they would cover).  This isn't even necessarily an indication that they are dishonest, but if there are service problems with where they are located (for whatever reason), then you may have to take stronger measures to make sure the package gets to them.

[whitebread47]

I've only had one issue here or on any DIY pedal forum (I'm not active on all of 'em).  The (international) buyer contacted me saying he never received the PCB.  He's an active member and all around good guy, so I had no doubt he was telling the truth - I sent him a refund and figured it was lost in transit.

Tracking on an international package that contains only one PCB would have cost more than the value of the contents unfortunately.

[snz728]

Sorry to hear you are facing a loss Paul.  Hope this experience hasn't caused you to lose faith.  I have had nothing but good experience with this forum so far and greatly appreciate your FF germanium set you sent me, your price+shipping made it possible for a broke guy like me to build an awesome pedal.
PS I'm thinking about making a tonebender if you have any more sets.

[chromesphere]

Awesome SNZ!  Thanks for the feedback!  Luckily, it was a small one.  But i worried if it happened to a larger order, i would be questioning whether to continue selling.  Im spend ALOT of time sourcing parts cheaply so that i can sell them cheaply here and at diysb.  Im not deterred as such, but i think im definitely going to have to put a few more details in the postage.  One in particular is, a max of (4 or maybe 6?) weeks has to pass before i can refund.  I've had 2 others say they havent recieved the package (after 3 weeks) but the package did arrive.

What do you guys think is a fair waiting period for an international package?  How long is a piece of string?

Paul