madbeanpedals::forum

One benefit of being front line hospital workers is my wife and I got our first dose of covid vaccines this week. My hospital was administering the moderna shot and hers the Pfizer shot. No sickness or side effects in either of us other than soreness in the arm for the first 24 hours and a little lethargy. No one else at work that got it I talked to reported anything major either. I get my second shot February 1st. I hear that the second dose has more of punch but nothing worse than cold like symptoms.
  Still a lot of people I talk to at work or in general think the shot is full of nanobots and 5g and voodoo. I think resistance is futile and post apocalyptic movies and tv have taught me that the resistance lifestyle is not for me lol. In all seriousness I know a lot of people who got covid and long term side effects so I don't want to deal with that not transmit it to parents or my youngest daughter who has bad asthma already. I would also like to get the kids back in school and maybe see a movie or concert again or go on vacation!
Just curious if anyone else has gotten the vaccine and how it was for you. I'll update with me and my wife's reaction to the second dose when we get it at the begining of February. This is not a pro big pharma post or conspiracy theory thing either. Just want to let anyone know my experience who is on the fence about getting it and may be worried about side effects or reactions. In any case my sister in law who is an icu nurse at tamp general hospital got the moderna shot and she has severe allergies and allergic reactions to alot of medications and she was fine. I know everyone is different but I haven't personally known a person yet to have a bad experience. Stay safe and healthy everyone!

I plan to get my micro-chip shot as soon as they will let me.  ;) ;D

QuoteStill a lot of people I talk to at work or in general think the shot is full of nanobots and 5g and voodoo.

Let's hope that all these people stick to their beliefs and don't get the vaccine and then nature sorts things out.

Quote from: culturejam on January 09, 2021, 03:25:51 PM
I plan to get my micro-chip shot as soon as they will let me.  ;) ;D

QuoteStill a lot of people I talk to at work or in general think the shot is full of nanobots and 5g and voodoo.

Let's hope that all these people stick to their beliefs and don't get the vaccine and then nature sorts things out.

I plan on getting mine ASAP. I don't believe the conspiracy.

While agree with you, I hope none of them work with my mother, I'd hate to lose her as crazy as she is.


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Just got on the list as an educator. Probably won't happen for several weeks but I am happy to at least be on the list.

Quote from: culturejam on January 09, 2021, 03:25:51 PM
I plan to get my micro-chip shot as soon as they will let me.  ;) ;D

QuoteStill a lot of people I talk to at work or in general think the shot is full of nanobots and 5g and voodoo.

Let's hope that all these people stick to their beliefs and don't get the vaccine and then nature sorts things out.

Please don't say things like this.

If the exhorting you not to wish death on other human beings isn't good enough, I (and probably you) have friends who are immunocompromised and can't get most vaccines, including the flu vaccine and will not be able to get the COVID-19 vaccine, so hoping that the people around them don't get the vaccine is wishing death on them, too.

Quote from: culturejam on January 09, 2021, 03:25:51 PM
I plan to get my micro-chip shot as soon as they will let me.  ;) ;D

QuoteStill a lot of people I talk to at work or in general think the shot is full of nanobots and 5g and voodoo.

Let's hope that all these people stick to their beliefs and don't get the vaccine and then nature sorts things out.

Okay, first off, they won't. They'll run out and get it as soon as they can, they just won't tell anyone they did.

Also, honestly at this point we need to figure out some way to engage these people and show them how ridiculous and harmful these lies are. We can't let something like what went down this week happen again.

I most likely will not. My 3 kids have all had Covid, ages 32,31,29 and my brother has had it, age 58 and all 4 wouldn't have known they had it until testing positive. My 145 pound youngest son, who just tested positive at the beginning of the week, age 29, and has type 1 diabetes, is working out in the garage at the moment. All 4 said the only symptom they had/have was not having smell or taste.

My wife has come out of retirement to spend about 3 or 4 days a week administering vaccines (Pfiser I believe).  Ironically since we both had Covid, we have to wait until February to get our doses.  I'll be jumping on it as quickly as possible.

Shoot me up with MT-2 baby!!

I feel good, but I'll admit I haven't felt quite "normal" since contracting the virus so wouldn't wish it on anyone, even considering my symptoms were quite mild.  Given that I've just recently turned 63 I suppose I feel all those years as much or more than any lingering effects.  I think this week has sort of proven that you can get a large number of people to believe damn near anything, especially in the wake of the fact that it's hard to believe in ANYTHING these days.  I would hope that this country and those that it influences will come to their senses.

I was kidding with my above comment. Probably should have heavily notated that at this point in where we are with society. I don't want anyone to die or suffer, especially over something so monumentally idiotic.

And yes, they'll almost all go out and get the shot when it's widely available. Tough-guy internet talk, for the most part.

That's how I interpreted it :-)

I'm not even sure how to begin having a real conversation with these fine folks. I'm walking around on eggshells all the time trying to avoid making perfectly logical statements that might end up arousing violence. I'm fucking sick of it. But I have no clue how to have an actual substantive dialog with people who are wrapped up in these conspiracies.

Quote from: culturejam on January 09, 2021, 07:18:34 PM
I'm not even sure how to begin having a real conversation with these fine folks. I'm walking around on eggshells all the time trying to avoid making perfectly logical statements that might end up arousing violence. I'm fucking sick of it. But I have no clue how to have an actual substantive dialog with people who are wrapped up in these conspiracies.

Yeah, I figured it was just a joke, sorry CJ. I have definitely talked to people that do feel that way though and it's in no way constructive.

I totally feel you about how to start those conversations. I don't have the answer, but I strongly feel like that's what we have to do.

Wouldn't it be kind of crazy that the side effect of the vaccine is you schlong gets three inches bigger?

Could you imagine having a fourteen inch rod?

(This was taken from my convo with my brother)

In all seriousness, I am a 36 y/o healthy male who has had covid, as much as I would like to get a vaccine I wouldn't feel right doing so until the people who deserve it, got it first.

Quote from: Matmosphere on January 09, 2021, 07:26:18 PM
Yeah, I figured it was just a joke, sorry CJ. I have definitely talked to people that do feel that way though and it's in no way constructive.

I totally feel you about how to start those conversations. I don't have the answer, but I strongly feel like that's what we have to do.

I should have noted in my original post that I was joking. Otherwise, it just looks callous and ignorant. Appreciate you not letting me skate on that.  ;D

I think we can probably start to find some common ground in the next several months. Now that we will (most likely) be getting back to the old, comfortable shit-show that the presidency and federal politics has historically been, I think some of the daily reality-show circus antics will fall away. Not have a major scandal break every couple of days is going to be nice.

Remember when a blow job was the craziest thing that had ever happened in the White House? I miss that.

If they were injecting me with HM-2s instead of MT-2s I'd be the first in line!

Sadly, I'll have to wait a few months.

It's good to see a healthy dose of logic and sarcasm here. I work and interact with the far left woke cancel culture and far right maga people. I'm ready to leave this planet and am trying  to sneak on a spaceX flight to mars. Some of your comments have made my day. I'll just be glad when we can go back to being depressed about everyday life and not being stuck inside during a pandemic lol

Quote from: Thewintersoldier on January 09, 2021, 09:39:00 PM
It's good to see a healthy dose of logic and sarcasm here. I work and interact with the far left woke cancel culture and far right maga people. I'm ready to leave this planet and am trying  to sneak on a spaceX flight to mars. Some of your comments have made my day. I'll just be glad when we can go back to being depressed about everyday life and not being stuck inside during a pandemic lol

Ha, yeah that will be nice.

Quote from: culturejam on January 09, 2021, 08:08:35 PM

Quote from: Matmosphere on January 09, 2021, 07:26:18 PM
Yeah, I figured it was just a joke, sorry CJ. I have definitely talked to people that do feel that way though and it's in no way constructive.

I totally feel you about how to start those conversations. I don't have the answer, but I strongly feel like that's what we have to do.

I should have noted in my original post that I was joking. Otherwise, it just looks callous and ignorant. Appreciate you not letting me skate on that.  ;D

I think we can probably start to find some common ground in the next several months. Now that we will (most likely) be getting back to the old, comfortable shit-show that the presidency and federal politics has historically been, I think some of the daily reality-show circus antics will fall away. Not have a major scandal break every couple of days is going to be nice.

Remember when a blow job was the craziest thing that had ever happened in the White House? I miss that.

That guy was awesome. I miss Sara Palin too, she could see Russia from her porch.


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Quote from: midwayfair on January 09, 2021, 05:34:33 PM

Quote from: culturejam on January 09, 2021, 03:25:51 PM
I plan to get my micro-chip shot as soon as they will let me.  ;) ;D

QuoteStill a lot of people I talk to at work or in general think the shot is full of nanobots and 5g and voodoo.

Let's hope that all these people stick to their beliefs and don't get the vaccine and then nature sorts things out.

Please don't say things like this.

If the exhorting you not to wish death on other human beings isn't good enough, I (and probably you) have friends who are immunocompromised and can't get most vaccines, including the flu vaccine and will not be able to get the COVID-19 vaccine, so hoping that the people around them don't get the vaccine is wishing death on them, too.

I'd like to point something out here.  Immunocompromised individuals can and should get the COVID-19 vaccine as well as the flu vaccine.  The only vaccine which is unsafe for this population is live vaccines.  The flu vaccine is a attenuated vaccine and the Moderna/Pfizer vaccine are new mRNA vaccines.  I work as a hospital pharmacist and I take strong immunosuppressive medications for a kidney transplant.  I make sure to get the flu vaccine every year and I have already had my first round of the Moderna vaccine.  I had absolutely no adverse effects with the first shot and I am due for the second shot later this month.  Dr. Anthony Fauci has also stated that immunocompromised individuals should be vaccinated as soon as possible.   
     I respect an individual's right to decide whichever health choices they feel are best for them. I just strongly recommend people educate themselves by reading peer reviewed literature or from healthcare individuals themselves.  Don't make such an important decision based on what you read on Facebook or twitter. 

Well said. I might add pneumonia and shingles as good options as well. The folks I've talked to had reactions from feeling a little crappy for a day to a mildly sore injection site. Insanely small price to pay for a potential "get out of jail free" card.

I'm curious to see how well it actually works in the real world

Quote from: Aentons on January 10, 2021, 07:54:40 PM
I'm curious to see how well it actually works in the real world

The research suggest both the ones that have been improved are highly effective. I see no reason to doubt that right now. Plus I figure it will be like most other vaccines work, if you are one of the unlucky few that does get sick after having the vaccine, there will be a much smaller chance of having a severe case.

Blind faith in science is just as dangerous as religious belief and superstitions. It is my understanding that these vaccines only protect people from beeing sick. Vaccinated people will still carry the virus and infect other people. Even if the vaccine is what they hope it is, the epidemic will still spread, and mutate. This alone should make everyone wonder quite suspiciously.
If you aren't 80 years old and at the edge of death, or afflicted by some special health problem that makes you vulnerable to  a serious sickness, I can't see the point.
I can't see the point of getting it in everyone's arm, other than trying to reassure the whole world (and incidentally make a huge fortune).
Moreover, corona virus are constantly mutating, the pharmaceutic industry have no idea if this expensive and rushed vaccination campaign will have any results in the end on the epidemic. I certainly hope so, but hope can easily turn out to be delusion, at least with me.

Most side effects usually take years to show up, tragedies happened since the eighteenth century (Hepatitis B, 1995 or h1n1, 2011 for exemple). I am really concerned about vaccinated people's health in 10 years from now. And obviously sceptical about the efficiency of these corona vaccines, knowing it's impossible to find the one and only solution to a problem that's constantly changing. Hence the fact that the flu's vaccine never really worked (30 to 60 percent).
I really can't understand what's happening to humanity with this crazy "sanitary crisis".
I know for a fact that in France, confinements and curfews come from hypocrisy: it's only about NOT reopening all the public hospitals that have been closed for "economic reasons" during these last "neo-liberal" corrupted years. The government's "great health council" (newspapers claim there's more conflicts of interest in those councils alone than in the whole country together...) told us openly so itself ! French government is still silently destroying public hospitals and medical jobs during this crisis, in order to push people toward private medical establishments in the near future. The police crushed the Healthcare worker's demonstrations with much violence in 2019 and 2020. Looks like nothing can stop mobsters in expensive suits when they are protected by poor guys in uniform, armed to the teeth. May all DIY goddesses protect us ! Build your own vaccine ! Build your own brain ! Imagine that some guy puts you in jail for one year, without music gear, then he comes back and tells you the only solution for you to go back to your good old life, with all your stompboxes, is to drink a strange potion. Would you gladly drink it ? I would fake drinking it and find help to investigate this further once released from their jail ...or something ... Maybe modify the old multimeter into a great fuzzy laser weapon, connected to a powerfull tube amp to break their walls, release the other prisoners and see them return safely to their emg pickups and loop stations. No more strange potions !

Quote from: eh là bas ma on January 10, 2021, 09:39:19 PM
Blind faith in science is just as dangerous as religious belief and superstitions. It is my understanding that these vaccines only protect people from beeing sick. Vaccinated people will still carry the virus and infect other people. Even if the vaccine is what they hope it is, the epidemic will still spread, and mutate. This alone should make everyone wonder quite suspiciously.
If you aren't 80 years old and at the edge of death, or afflicted by some special health problem that makes you vulnerable to  a serious sickness, I can't see the point.
I can't see the point of getting it in everyone's arm, other than trying to reassure the whole world (and incidentally make a huge fortune).
Moreover, corona virus are constantly mutating, the pharmaceutic industry have no idea if this expensive and rushed vaccination campaign will have any results in the end on the epidemic. I certainly hope so, but hope can easily turn out to be delusion, at least with me.

Most side effects usually take years to show up, tragedies happened since the eighteenth century (Hepatitis B, 1995 or h1n1, 2011 for exemple). I am really concerned about vaccinated people's health in 10 years from now. And obviously sceptical about the efficiency of these corona vaccines, knowing it's impossible to find the one and only solution to a problem that's constantly changing. Hence the fact that the flu's vaccine never really worked (30 to 60 percent).
I really can't understand what's happening to humanity with this crazy "sanitary crisis".
I know for a fact that in France, confinements and curfews come from hypocrisy: it's only about NOT reopening all the public hospitals that have been closed for "economic reasons" during these last "neo-liberal" corrupted years. The government's "great health council" (newspapers claim there's more conflicts of interest in those councils alone than in the whole country together...) told us openly so itself ! French government is still silently destroying public hospitals and medical jobs during this crisis, in order to push people toward private medical establishments in the near future. The police crushed the Healthcare worker's demonstrations with much violence in 2019 and 2020. Looks like nothing can stop mobsters in expensive suits when they are protected by poor guys in uniform, armed to the teeth. May all DIY goddesses protect us ! Build your own vaccine ! Build your own brain ! Imagine that some guy puts you in jail for one year, without music gear, then he comes back and tells you the only solution for you to go back to your good old life, with all your stompboxes, is to drink a strange potion. Would you gladly drink it ? I would fake drinking it and find help to investigate this further once released from their jail ...or something ... Maybe modify the old multimeter into a great fuzzy laser weapon, connected to a powerfull tube amp to break their walls, release the other prisoners and see them return safely to their emg pickups and loop stations. No more strange potions !

To paraphrase this... "We shouldn't trust science. Instead, we should pick the parts of science that support our preconceived opinions and ignore the rest. Oh, and confirmation bias is a conspiracy theory."

Reality is I probably won't have access to the vaccine until September, but will get it then, if for no other reason, than most of career has hinged on the ability to travel internationally and I suspect being vaccinated is going to be a precursor to being able to do that effectively again.

As far as concerns about the vaccine, I have some based on the implementation timeframe, however, in talking to my mom about it she drew the comparison to kids getting the Polio vaccine in the 50s and how scary a scenario for parents that must have been (my father had Polio as a child), and putting that into perspective, with the advances that science has made over the past 7 decades I guess I should be mostly OK with it.  At this point returning to somewhat of a normal life is preferable; I've already had one parent whose funeral we couldn't attend due to restrictions, I'd prefer not to have that happen again. 

One of the most fascinating things about this pandemic for me has been watching the way science intersects with public policy and messaging.  For example, right now they are saying that if you are vaccinated you can still transmit the virus to others.  One could guess that if you are vaccinated you won't have the level of infection needed to shed enough virus and infect others.  I wonder what variables were part of that decision.  Is it that they don't know for sure you can't transmit yet (and it would be dangerous to presume) or was it that they are worried about people walking around without masks before they are even vaccinated? Ultimately we need to keep everyone masked and distanced until hospitalizations are down. 

I'm old school.  I think the government wants to get society functioning again and I think doctors, in general, want people to be healthy and live.  I'm willing to have some trust in the process.  My wife is getting first dose of the vaccine this week.  I'll take it as soon as it is available. 

Quote from: Bio77 on January 11, 2021, 07:25:15 PM
One of the most fascinating things about this pandemic for me has been watching the way science intersects with public policy and messaging.  For example, right now they are saying that if you are vaccinated you can still transmit the virus to others.  One could guess that if you are vaccinated you won't have the level of infection needed to shed enough virus and infect others.  I wonder what variables were part of that decision.  Is it that they don't know for sure you can't transmit yet (and it would be dangerous to presume) or was it that they are worried about people walking around without masks before they are even vaccinated? Ultimately we need to keep everyone masked and distanced until hospitalizations are down.

Infection and disease are not the same. You can be infected, not show any disease symptoms, and shed infectious amounts of virus. These people are known as asymptomatic carriers. The issue is not that we know vaccinated people will become asymptomatic carriers. Rather, we don't know if they will. To mitigate unnecessary loss of life, the CDC is recommending that everyone continue to wear a mask, including vaccinated individuals, until one of two things happen: 1. we empirically determine that the vaccine also prevents the transmission of virus or 2. we achieve herd immunity (through vaccination).

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/faq.html

Quote from: Bio77 on January 11, 2021, 07:25:15 PM
One of the most fascinating things about this pandemic for me has been watching the way science intersects with public policy and messaging.  For example, right now they are saying that if you are vaccinated you can still transmit the virus to others.  One could guess that if you are vaccinated you won't have the level of infection needed to shed enough virus and infect others.  I wonder what variables were part of that decision.  Is it that they don't know for sure you can't transmit yet (and it would be dangerous to presume) or was it that they are worried about people walking around without masks before they are even vaccinated? Ultimately we need to keep everyone masked and distanced until hospitalizations are down. 

I'm old school.  I think the government wants to get society functioning again and I think doctors, in general, want people to be healthy and live.  I'm willing to have some trust in the process.  My wife is getting first dose of the vaccine this week.  I'll take it as soon as it is available.

As I understand it part of the reason they were able to make the vaccine available so quickly is that they skipped a lot of the testing they would usually do prior to authorization. The research that has already been done was focused on safety and effectiveness, but generally before these things are rolled out they do a lot more.

For example, as those of us with children probably know, no testing has been done on kids so we can understand if it will be safe for them. There are several other things that they generally study that got skipped as well. One of those is if a vaccinated person can be immune but still transmit COVID-19 to others. I think they expect the answer to be no, but because they didn't have time to study it they don't know for sure.

That information just takes longer to get than the time they had to do the testing. I'm sure at some point they will know. I'm sure they are working on it now. But until they can say for sure one way or another, I'd say we're better safe than sorry.

And yeah, scientists historically aren't great communicators of their work. That's why people like Carl Sagan, Neil DeGrass Tyson, and (honestly) Bill Nye are such gems and so important. They have a way of discussions this stuff that is far more approachable than most scientist do. The forward to a brief history of time has some good insight into this stuff. Scientist want to show their data as empirical proof of things, but most people haven't learned the skills to process that data. Someone needs to distill the data into ideas that people can understand. That step gets overlooked.

Quote from: Matmosphere on January 11, 2021, 07:57:12 PMAnd yeah, scientists historically aren't great communicators of their work. That's why people like Carl Sagan, Neil DeGrass Tyson, and (honestly) Bill Nye are such gems and so important. They have a way of discussions this stuff that is far more approachable than most scientist do. The forward to a brief history of time has some good insight into this stuff. Scientist want to show their data as empirical proof of things, but most people haven't learned the skills to process that data. Someone needs to distill the data into ideas that people can understand. That step gets overlooked.

That is a fair criticism. I would like to point out a few things which at least partially explain why scientists struggle to communicate to the lay public.

First, scientists live at the edge of the known and unknown, and often times, the truth isn't entirely understood by even themselves. Scientists get comfortable with uncertainty. Much of free time (which is small, see point #3 below) is spent saying, "I don't know. This is what I could do to know a little more about it though." "I don't know" is an entirely unsatisfying answer to a non-scientist.

Second, science is complicated. Ideally, the goal of all research is to distill a complicated concept into a small package that anyone can wrap their mind around. In some ways this is related to my first point; How simple something can be made is often limited by our own capabilities as scientists, as well as our current understanding of the topic. However, some concepts are just too complicated for a person to understand unless they are willing to invest the effort to learn. For example, you'll never understand thermodynamics unless you learn to use math as a language. Words will never explain that concept.

Finally, scientists are spread so incredibly thin that we don't have the time or will to communicate with lay people. A tiny fraction of a scientist's work actually involves doing science. Most of our time is spent teaching classes, writing (and reviewing) grants, writing/revising (and peer reviewing) manuscripts, serving on student and administrative committees, invited lectures, conferences, etc... It's death by a thousand paper cuts.

How do you fix the problem? More science public advocates like Sagan, NdGT, Nye, and EO Wilson, as well as better scientific education for lay people.

Quote from: DLW on January 11, 2021, 09:25:54 PM

Quote from: Matmosphere on January 11, 2021, 07:57:12 PMAnd yeah, scientists historically aren't great communicators of their work. That's why people like Carl Sagan, Neil DeGrass Tyson, and (honestly) Bill Nye are such gems and so important. They have a way of discussions this stuff that is far more approachable than most scientist do. The forward to a brief history of time has some good insight into this stuff. Scientist want to show their data as empirical proof of things, but most people haven't learned the skills to process that data. Someone needs to distill the data into ideas that people can understand. That step gets overlooked.

That is a fair criticism. I would like to point out a few things which at least partially explain why scientists struggle to communicate to the lay public.

First, scientists live at the edge of the known and unknown, and often times, the truth isn't entirely understood by even themselves. Scientists get comfortable with uncertainty. Much of free time (which is small, see point #3 below) is spent saying, "I don't know. This is what I could do to know a little more about it though." "I don't know" is an entirely unsatisfying answer to a non-scientist.

Second, science is complicated. Ideally, the goal of all research is to distill a complicated concept into a small package that anyone can wrap their mind around. In some ways this is related to my first point; How simple something can be made is often limited by our own capabilities as scientists, as well as our current understanding of the topic. However, some concepts are just too complicated for a person to understand unless they are willing to invest the effort to learn. For example, you'll never understand thermodynamics unless you learn to use math as a language. Words will never explain that concept.

Finally, scientists are spread so incredibly thin that we don't have the time or will to communicate with lay people. A tiny fraction of a scientist's work actually involves doing science. Most of our time is spent teaching classes, writing (and reviewing) grants, writing/revising (and peer reviewing) manuscripts, serving on student and administrative committees, invited lectures, conferences, etc... It's death by a thousand paper cuts.

How do you fix the problem? More science public advocates like Sagan, NdGT, Nye, and EO Wilson, as well as better scientific education for lay people.

You're preaching to the choir man.

Although I might add as a possible solution that we should allow scientist more time to actually focus on their research and not administrative duties. You know maybe a world were people respect scientist, and support their work.

Quote from: DLW on January 11, 2021, 09:25:54 PM

Quote from: Matmosphere on January 11, 2021, 07:57:12 PMAnd yeah, scientists historically aren't great communicators of their work. That's why people like Carl Sagan, Neil DeGrass Tyson, and (honestly) Bill Nye are such gems and so important. They have a way of discussions this stuff that is far more approachable than most scientist do. The forward to a brief history of time has some good insight into this stuff. Scientist want to show their data as empirical proof of things, but most people haven't learned the skills to process that data. Someone needs to distill the data into ideas that people can understand. That step gets overlooked.

That is a fair criticism. I would like to point out a few things which at least partially explain why scientists struggle to communicate to the lay public.

First, scientists live at the edge of the known and unknown, and often times, the truth isn't entirely understood by even themselves. Scientists get comfortable with uncertainty. Much of free time (which is small, see point #3 below) is spent saying, "I don't know. This is what I could do to know a little more about it though." "I don't know" is an entirely unsatisfying answer to a non-scientist.

Second, science is complicated. Ideally, the goal of all research is to distill a complicated concept into a small package that anyone can wrap their mind around. In some ways this is related to my first point; How simple something can be made is often limited by our own capabilities as scientists, as well as our current understanding of the topic. However, some concepts are just too complicated for a person to understand unless they are willing to invest the effort to learn. For example, you'll never understand thermodynamics unless you learn to use math as a language. Words will never explain that concept.

Finally, scientists are spread so incredibly thin that we don't have the time or will to communicate with lay people. A tiny fraction of a scientist's work actually involves doing science. Most of our time is spent teaching classes, writing (and reviewing) grants, writing/revising (and peer reviewing) manuscripts, serving on student and administrative committees, invited lectures, conferences, etc... It's death by a thousand paper cuts.

How do you fix the problem? More science public advocates like Sagan, NdGT, Nye, and EO Wilson, as well as better scientific education for lay people.

When I was in college to be a teacher I was science major and math minor. I took a lot of science classes and am in no way a scientist but I have never stopped learning or asking why. My wife and I watch science based programs and read publications as well. It's so frustrating to see people abandon it all together because they don't understand or it doesn't support their narrative. I don't know how people can be so complacent with being ignorant to everything or just claiming ignorance is bliss. I want to understand things, know how they work, or at the very least try to. I have people tell me it's too complicated or hard. When I hear that this always pops in my head...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210111/1bc486b12804a0e5adbcf746653b3e1e.jpg)

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

Quote from: Thewintersoldier on January 11, 2021, 11:19:51 PMWhen I was in college to be a teacher I was science major and math minor. I took a lot of science classes and am in no way a scientist but I have never stopped learning or asking why. My wife and I watch science based programs and read publications as well. It's so frustrating to see people abandon it all together because they don't understand or it doesn't support their narrative. I don't know how people can be so complacent with being ignorant to everything or just claiming ignorance is bliss. I want to understand things, know how they work, or at the very least try to. I have people tell me it's too complicated or hard.

With that curiosity and willingness to learn, I'd wager you have a well above average understanding of science. Unfortunately, you can't really understand that natural world without that ethos.

You touch on another point that I wish I would have made earlier... many people assume being a scientist solely entails having  encyclopedic knowledge in a narrow field. The truth is that science is not simply a body of facts; rather, it is a way of observing, thinking logically, and recognizing/limiting bias. I wish more people appreciated that aspect of science, because everyone can benefit from at least partially incorporating these behaviors in their life.

I'll step off my soapbox. I think Matosphere nailed it. I'm preaching to the choir on these boards. I seems like most of the folks around here are reasonable, curious, and dedicated to their craft...in other words, scientists :)

Quote from: Thewintersoldier on January 11, 2021, 11:19:51 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210111/1bc486b12804a0e5adbcf746653b3e1e.jpg)

First time I've seen that, I'm definitely using it in the future  ;D ;D

Quote from: dan.schumaker on January 11, 2021, 11:46:22 PM

Quote from: Thewintersoldier on January 11, 2021, 11:19:51 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210111/1bc486b12804a0e5adbcf746653b3e1e.jpg)

First time I've seen that, I'm definitely using it in the future  ;D ;D

Bwahahahaha! I'm a bass player, this is the only thing I got out of this thread.


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I highly recommend Pratchett, Cohen, and Stewart's _Science of Discworld 2: The Globe_ -- at one point, the faculty of Unseen University are trying to understand what this "psyense" nonsense is, as explained by Hex.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Science_of_Discworld_II:_The_Globe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Science_of_Discworld_II:_The_Globe)

I still have concerns about the vaccines that I am positive could be addressed if I knew what to read.  In other words, my concerns are based only on what I personally don't know yet rather than on any wild conspiracy theories and the like.  I'll list a few, and if anyone with appropriate knowledge wants to tell me everything is fine, I will be satisfied. 

1)  Many people who are infected by COVID-19 are asymptomatic.  Is it possible that the vaccine could fail to produce the desired immune system response in such people.  That is, assuming their cells produce harmless spiky crowns as specified by the mRNA, might their immune system simply ignore them?

2)  What mechanism eventually stops my cells from producing those spiky crowns?  Does the vaccine change the cells or simply give them one-time-use instructions?

3)  Do we need more long term data to show the vaccine is safe?  This is very new technology (mRNA vaccines have never been rolled out before). I'm not sure how to best refine this question, so I will leave it vague for now.  I'm happy so many others are getting vaccinated first.  I am sure my family will eventually have an opportunity to get the shots, and I want to confidently, rather than nervously, roll up my sleeve.

I hope this post makes sense.  Just asking for info without any confrontational agenda here.   ;)

Quote from: EBK on January 12, 2021, 02:44:19 PM1)  Many people who are infected by COVID-19 are asymptomatic.  Is it possible that the vaccine could fail to produce the desired immune system response in such people.  That is, assuming their cells produce harmless spiky crowns as specified by the mRNA, might their immune system simply ignore them?

This is a good point. I don't think we know anything about how people will respond to the vaccine that have been previous infected with the virus. I'm pretty sure these people were excluded from the initial trials and are too far down the cue to have been vaccinated en masse to study.

Best case scenario, the vaccine improves upon natural immunity by prolonging immune memory. Worst case, the vaccine reprograms natural immunity and turns a normally well tolerated response into a harmful one. My professional opinion is the former is highly likely, while the latter is not without precedence (albeit one vaccine in the history of vaccination).

We'll know the answer to this question in due time.

Quote from: EBK on January 12, 2021, 02:44:19 PM2)  What mechanism eventually stops my cells from producing those spiky crowns?  Does the vaccine change the cells or simply give them one-time-use instructions?

It should be noted that this question refers to only one (mRNA) of the many formulation of the COV2 vaccine. If the novelty mRNA vaccine is a major hang up for you, you have access to more traditional forms of the vaccine (e.g. Astrozenaca).

The reason spike proteins won't stick around forever is due to the instability of RNA. In fact, RNA is one of, if not the most highly unstable biomolecules. Thinking about this from the perspective of the central dogma of biology is probably the easiest way to understand why RNA is so unstable. DNA is trascribed into RNA, and RNA is translated into protein. In other words, RNA is an intermediate step between gene blueprints (DNA) and the functional form of a gene (protein). This affords a powerful opportunity for RNA to regulate protein production through a variety of means that hinge on the stability of RNA. Instability is the default, and stabilizing RNA is an active process. Thus, RNA is quickly degraded in the absence of a cell's highly coordinate attempt to stabilize it.

Quote from: EBK on January 12, 2021, 02:44:19 PM3)  Do we need more long term data to show the vaccine is safe?  This is very new technology (mRNA vaccines have never been rolled out before). I'm not sure how to best refine this question, so I will leave it vague for now.  I'm happy so many others are getting vaccinated first.  I am sure my family will eventually have an opportunity to get the shots, and I want to confidently, rather than nervously, roll up my sleeve.

While the mRNA vaccines are new, vaccination is not. There are common safety concerns that usually appear shortly after vaccination and a few other that develop upon exposure to the natural pathogen. There are virtually zero safety concerns that arise long after vaccination.

The trials for both the mRNA vaccines were quite large (10,000s of people). There were no serious side effects reported in both trials. Likewise, the fact that independent trials, utilizing a similar vaccine formulation, found each vaccine to be safe and effective is very reassuring. Of course, larger sample sizes are always better. An additional 7 million people have received the vaccine and there have only been a small handful of easily treatable reactions to the vaccine. Safety concerns with the COV2 vaccines are vanishing with every day.

Thank you!  I'm sure I will still have more questions, but that helps with the biggest ones I had.

Quick update, my wife and mom both got the second dose of the pfizer vaccine Monday. Both had just soreness in the arm and fatigue for a couple days but nothing serious or prolonged. I get my second dose of the moderna vaccine this coming Monday so I will let you know how that goes later next week. Knowing that there essentially wasn't a vaccine plan or program and the shortages we are facing I consider myself lucky that I am able to get it as a hospital employee, even if I am around covid patients. I hope everyone who wants it is able to get it as soon as possible. Stay safe and healthy everyone.

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Down here in MD, it is a wreck!

20 and 30 something teachers were able to get the vaccine even though schools have been shut down for months and learning has been completely virtual BUT, elderly people (my mother included) even those with pre-existing conditions are still on a waiting list.

Its pretty sad...  :-\

IL not doing too much better.  My wife gets her 2nd Moderna next week.  She was REALLY sick from the first shot but she reacts very poorly to vaccines in general so she's not a good benchmark.  Not stopping her from getting the followup but she'll plan on being down for a few days.

I'm in Group 2 so likely won't get anywhere near a needle till early summer.  I've had the virus so with any luck I'm covered till at least then anyway.

Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on January 28, 2021, 01:55:15 PM
Down here in MD, it is a wreck!

20 and 30 something teachers were able to get the vaccine even though schools have been shut down for months and learning has been completely virtual BUT, elderly people (my mother included) even those with pre-existing conditions are still on a waiting list.

Its pretty sad...  :-\

Are you sure you're getting the correct information? It seems that educators and 65+ are both in category 1c in MD and both groups are currently able to receive vaccinations pending availability.
https://covidlink.maryland.gov/content/vaccine/

Also, I'm not sure that educators are the ones to villainize in this plan. Vaccination is a prerequisite to getting schools open again. I would've picked inmates to draw ire, but that's just me... https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/12/08/covid-vaccination-plans/

Quote from: DLW on January 28, 2021, 03:02:32 PM
Are you sure you're getting the correct information? It seems that educators and 65+ are both in category 1c in MD and both groups are currently able to receive vaccinations pending availability.
https://covidlink.maryland.gov/content/vaccine/

Also, I'm not sure that educators are the ones to villainize in this plan. Vaccination is a prerequisite to getting schools open again. I would've picked inmates to draw ire, but that's just me... https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/12/08/covid-vaccination-plans/

Educators got their vaccines 3 weeks ago. They were prioritized BEFORE elderly.

And yes.. I am sure as I have called the local Health department 3 times in the last 2 weeks and have been told that we are on a wait.

Quote from: Bio77 on January 11, 2021, 07:25:15 PM

I'm old school.  I think the government wants to get society functioning again and I think doctors, in general, want people to be healthy and live.  I'm willing to have some trust in the process.  My wife is getting first dose of the vaccine this week.  I'll take it as soon as it is available.

With respect, that's not old school, that's naiveté, with a pinch of blindness.
I've been watching "the Vietnam War" by Ken Burns and Lynn Novick lately. I figure "old school" is quite subsersive and violent from what I can learn about the US in those days. We could use some of that ! Anti-communist ideologists and politicians had to fight two wars : the Vietnam and their own people, at home.

Governments call us "human resources" with few value. Doctors kill themselves or protest and get beaten by "police" (who wants to join them today, I mean the police ?) in the streets  because governments and industry won't let them get people healthy and living : how do you want capitalism and its brutality to thrive and prosper, if people are ok, healthy, and think by themselves ? This would be bad for business, really.

Quote from: DLW on January 11, 2021, 05:52:12 PM


To paraphrase this... "We shouldn't trust science. Instead, we should pick the parts of science that support our preconceived opinions and ignore the rest. Oh, and confirmation bias is a conspiracy theory."

Science has always been hijacked by people with political or financial agendas. Once we justified slavery with science, segregation, etc. all that based on so-called "science". Do you know the "Atomic Red" ? Uranium lipstick from the late 1940's ! I guess people can be dead wrong...

"Conspiracy theory" is  a concept first publicized and used after WW2,  as an intellectual weapon by those fighting against former collaborationists and other fascistoid associations, willing to deny genocide during WW2. Capitalism and its friends are well-known for being able to promptly turn every weapon against their opponents : Now it's a common way to shut down criticism about everything, firing back alltogether honnest and legitimate concerns and childish phantasies and ghosts . Please don't go "Godwin-point " on me : this is an other way to kill democratic and progressist thinking, by destroying the one minimum point of agreement, from which people can compare with politics they are suffering today. Remember Rage Against the Machine ? "You got a bullet in your Head" ? Is that old school now ? I think so.


Looks like daily news aren't so good with this "variants" thing. Why Pfeizer and Moderna want every single governments to write into a bill of law that they won't be held responsible for any trouble with their fine vaccines ?

Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on January 28, 2021, 03:07:15 PM

Quote from: DLW on January 28, 2021, 03:02:32 PM
Are you sure you're getting the correct information? It seems that educators and 65+ are both in category 1c in MD and both groups are currently able to receive vaccinations pending availability.
https://covidlink.maryland.gov/content/vaccine/

Also, I'm not sure that educators are the ones to villainize in this plan. Vaccination is a prerequisite to getting schools open again. I would've picked inmates to draw ire, but that's just me... https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2020/12/08/covid-vaccination-plans/

Educators got their vaccines 3 weeks ago. They were prioritized BEFORE elderly.

And yes.. I am sure as I have called the local Health department 3 times in the last 2 weeks and have been told that we are on a wait.

The whole rollout of the vaccine was really poorly managed. I'm really hopeful that changes quickly. I don't blame them for doing teachers first. It makes sense, people really want their kids back in school, but at the same time I'd love to see my in-laws get vaccinate as soon as possible. All I can say is that I don't want to be the person that has to make those calls. That would be tough.

I also think it would be naive to think some people and industries aren't finding creative ways to jump to the front of the line.

Saw a pic on IG of an old friend who runs a bar getting the vaccine, he's maybe 40. Don't know how that happened, I think his wife works in healthcare, so maybe cause they live together. But either way, seems like there may not be definitive rules for this stuff.

I hope that, with these new variants starting to spread, that the pace of vaccination really picks up.


On a side note, somebody came out to look at a broke dryer at my house today, the irony of watching him put those little plastic covers on his shoes while he only had his mask over his mouth was not lost on me at all. {facepalm} I mean I guess my floors aren't any dirtier than they were before, right?

Quote from: Matmosphere on January 28, 2021, 03:45:07 PM
I don't blame them for doing teachers first. It makes sense, people really want their kids back in school,

I would agree... if it wasn't for the fact that teacher's unions are arguing that they do not want to go back to in-class instruction even after getting prioritized for the vaccine  ::)

Hadn't heard that, interesting. I guess it's probably a local issue some places.

All my teacher friends would much rather go back to the classroom ASAP after getting the vaccine. When I was teaching I was in a right to work state, there was a union, but it had no power at all and most people weren't part of it. If the district says it's time to go back the teachers there won't have a choice.

In my in-laws district older and high risk teachers can get wavers from doctors if there is a need, which to me makes sense, but unless there is a medical reason then teachers have to teach in the classroom.

Teachers unions or not though, the best way to open schools again is to vaccinate the staff. I was always catching little bugs when I was teaching. It's really hard to have over a hundred kids in and out of your room in a day and not catch the odd bug here and there.

I got the first round of Moderna by chance.

There were 16 people in my organization that are deemed mission critical.  But 6 of them refused the shot for whatever perosnnal reason.

The Director walked around the building and asked the first six people she saw "Do you want the vaccine?"
>>Yes.  Yes I do.


Nanobots and all, pump me full of lead.
It's not like the Army hasn't tested half a dozen things on me already anyway.

The day after my arm felt like somebody hit it with a hammer.  But that was all the side effect I felt.

This story got swept under the table because of the shit that went down a few hours later that day, but it's worth the read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/06/us/california-broken-freezer-vaccines-trnd/index.html

Quote from: Matmosphere on January 28, 2021, 07:55:57 PM
This story got swept under the table because of the shit that went down a few hours later that day, but it's worth the read.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/06/us/california-broken-freezer-vaccines-trnd/index.html

Things break and plans are not always feasible.  It takes leadership and quick action to make alternate plans on the fly with best possible outcomes.  It looks like they did a great job of not wasting any vaccine.  Good job.

On a side note; I received my second Moderna vaccine yesterday.  I woke up this morning with a low grade fever.  Well worth it in my view. 

Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on January 28, 2021, 03:07:15 PM
Educators got their vaccines 3 weeks ago. They were prioritized BEFORE elderly.

This is misleading. Teachers are in category 1B, which is the same group as the general elderly not in institutions. And not everyone in every phase is prioritized exactly the same. Hard to believe, I know, but some teachers are more at risk than others, just like every large group of people. The Washington Post puts the absolute earliest they could all be vaccinated as the end of February, which is absolutely not "three weeks ago".

If any of your friends are teachers you could just ask them what their objections are.

Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on January 28, 2021, 04:17:27 PM
I would agree... if it wasn't for the fact that teacher's unions are arguing that they do not want to go back to in-class instruction even after getting prioritized for the vaccine  ::)

Not every teacher is prioritized at the same level and it will take months to vaccinate them all. The union opposes a blanket return ahead of the teachers all being vaccinated.

edited for tone

My most disturbing takeaway:

Govmnt_Lacky...you build some of the most cosmic pedals I've seen but you pay someone to fix your dryer???  Isn't that like Michelangelo hiring someone to paint the walls... ::)

Quote from: gordo on January 29, 2021, 02:00:00 AM
My most disturbing takeaway:

Govmnt_Lacky...you build some of the most cosmic pedals I've seen but you pay someone to fix your dryer???  Isn't that like Michelangelo hiring someone to paint the walls... ::)

I've tried to pay someone once to fix my dryer, but no one would take the job.  Not enough money to make the trip worthwhile, I guess.  A bit of Youtube University and a $20 Amazon order, and I was good to go.

Quote from: midwayfair on January 28, 2021, 10:07:51 PM
This is misleading. Teachers are in category 1B, which is the same group as the general elderly not in institutions. And not everyone in every phase is prioritized exactly the same. Hard to believe, I know, but some teachers are more at risk than others, just like every large group of people. The Washington Post puts the absolute earliest they could all be vaccinated as the end of February, which is absolutely not "three weeks ago".

If any of your friends are teachers you could just ask them what their objections are.

How is this misleading?? Every teacher that I know... young and old... in my district has been vaccinated or offered the vaccine. Most, if not all, have received it already. Now, it may be a local/county thing but I can assure you that they HAVE received it already. Many of the local teachers are on social media and they were more than happy to share photos of themselves receiving the vaccine. I can also assure you that they were receiving them earlier this month. So.. maybe it was 2 weeks ago. I stand corrected on that.

Quote from: midwayfair on January 28, 2021, 10:07:51 PM
Not every teacher is prioritized at the same level and it will take months to vaccinate them all. The union opposes a blanket return ahead of the teachers all being vaccinated.

I cannot disagree with this statement as I do not know every single teacher in my district however, I can say that quite a lot of them have received it and they have ALL been offered it. I can also say that (and this is directly from a local teacher that is aware of the feelings of the group) they are still not wanting to return. Now, whether they are 'forced' to return is a different matter but, the feelings are still there and they are resisting. Things may be different in your area.

Quote from: gordo on January 29, 2021, 02:00:00 AM
My most disturbing takeaway:

Govmnt_Lacky...you build some of the most cosmic pedals I've seen but you pay someone to fix your dryer???  Isn't that like Michelangelo hiring someone to paint the walls... ::)

Haha... like EBK, I tried but no one would look at it. I did end up fixing my dryer quite a while ago myself  ;D

All this stuff seems to depend so much on where you are and who is in charge. Greg maybe teachers in your area have all gotten or received the vaccine, but That is probably not true for everyone in the state. The problem has been that there was no universal plan, and there has also not been equal distribution.

I haven't heard of teachers in my father in-laws district in Ohio getting it at all yet, nor have I seen anything from my teacher friends in VA that suggest they have gotten it or been offered it. My father in-law is a teacher, over 65, and high risk for other reasons, I assume he is reasonably close to the top of the list, but sadly it seems really hard for anyone in his area to get it.

I would never begrudge anyone for taking the vaccine when it's offered. Hopefully the supply increases and better guidelines for distribution are put in place. This here is yours, you figure out what to do with it, we have had so far is clearly not the best option.

Quote from: Matmosphere on January 29, 2021, 12:44:45 PM
All this stuff seems to depend so much on where you are and who is in charge. Greg maybe teachers in your area have all gotten or received the vaccine, but That is probably not true for everyone in the state. The problem has been that there was no universal plan, and there has also not been equal distribution.

I haven't heard of teachers in my father in-laws district in Ohio getting it at all yet, nor have I seen anything from my teacher friends in VA that suggest they have gotten it or been offered it. My father in-law is a teacher, over 65, and high risk for other reasons, I assume he is reasonably close to the top of the list, but sadly it seems really hard for anyone in his area to get it.

I would never begrudge anyone for taking the vaccine when it's offered. Hopefully the supply increases and better guidelines for distribution are put in place. This here is yours, you figure out what to do with it, we have had so far is clearly not the best option.

Totally agree with everything you said. The organization of this whole thing just makes me sad  :-\

Yeah, big fail at a critical time. I'm worried we may be paying for it for a long time.

On a side not. I'm only getting the dryer fixed by someone else because we are living in a rental. Not my dryer so I should probably let them fix it.

Don't make the mistake of conflating what the Union organization itself thinks, with what the teachers themselves think. From my understanding, as well as looking out for their members' interests, American unions are highly, highly political.

I'm part of the union at my work (New Zealand), and it's pretty rare for the union to push us to vote for a given party, and even then it's never any kind of hard sell.

Three links from the British Medical Journal about the pandemic and the Pfiezer and Moderna vaccines

First link is the most important, published in november 2020, called "Covid-19: politicisation, “corruption,” and suppression of science" by Kamran Abbasi, executive editor

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4425/

"Will covid-19 vaccines save lives? Current trials aren’t designed to tell us "

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4037

"Covid-19 vaccine trial protocols released"

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4058

quote : "These studies seem designed to answer the easiest question in the least amount of time, not the most clinically relevant questions."

    Peter Doshi, associate editor

What do you think about what scientists are saying ?

In France, two famous and eminent scientists are threatened to loose, or have already lost their jobs, because they are asking questions : university professor, hospital practitioner C. Perronne; specialist in infectious diseases, professor of microbiology D. Raoult. And many other less known health workers, hospital resuscitators, doctors, etc. Administrative hierarchy is doing everything to silence them.

Is it the same abroad ?

So because they were doing the trials fairly quickly, there is a chance that they aren't quite as effective as original trials demonstrate.  That really shouldn't be a shocker to anyone.  There has been a whole lot of digital ink spilled during this pandemic with folks chasing the 100% perfect versus the more realistic 'good enough'.  All the crap that folks like to spew that 'masks don't do anything', 'they don't stop everything' or trying to sanitize vegetables has just been a distraction from the reality that if you just do a few things reasonably well such as wear your dang mask and wash your hands and don't do big gatherings, you'll stand a good chance of avoiding this thing until the imperfect vaccines roll around and bring this thing under enough control that we can all start going to concerts again.

Quote from: slacker775 on January 30, 2021, 04:12:12 PM
.... if you just do a few things reasonably well such as wear your dang mask and wash your hands and don't do big gatherings, you'll stand a good chance of avoiding this thing until the imperfect vaccines roll around and bring this thing under enough control that we can all start going to concerts again.

So true. And, if it hasn't been mentioned or if it has, I will reiterate, wearing your mask serves two purposes, the second one is making it less likely you'll touch your face. Just throwing it out there.

I have more than once witnessed someone pull down their face mask so they could insert their finger into their nostril.   ::)

Quote from: slacker775 on January 30, 2021, 04:12:12 PM
So because they were doing the trials fairly quickly, there is a chance that they aren't quite as effective as original trials demonstrate.  That really shouldn't be a shocker to anyone.  There has been a whole lot of digital ink spilled during this pandemic with folks chasing the 100% perfect versus the more realistic 'good enough'.  All the crap that folks like to spew that 'masks don't do anything', 'they don't stop everything' or trying to sanitize vegetables has just been a distraction from the reality that if you just do a few things reasonably well such as wear your dang mask and wash your hands and don't do big gatherings, you'll stand a good chance of avoiding this thing until the imperfect vaccines roll around and bring this thing under enough control that we can all start going to concerts again.

If the forum had a like button, this ^^^

I was also reading about how the MRNA vaccines can be adapted pretty quickly to changes in the virus, which sounds promising.

The whole mRNA thing is really interesting.   Seems akin to having a standard pedal base that handles I/O, power filtering and standard tone controls and you just need to fit the actual meat for the effect.  May wind up being a game changer for future vaccine development.   I was reading that they've found some common protein(s) for different strains of the flu so if they could make a vax that targeted that, it could largely work on most/all strains.  The future could be pretty bright, or we will all be zombies.  I for one welcome our undead overlords!

(https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/viral_vector_immunity.png)

...

Quote from: slacker775 on January 30, 2021, 04:12:12 PM
So because they were doing the trials fairly quickly, there is a chance that they aren't quite as effective as original trials demonstrate.

No.

Here in the Netherlands vaccination goes at a snails pace. We were one of the last countries in Europe to start vaccinating and are among the worst in Europe with numbers of people vaccinated. Which I suspect is because the incompetent moron who is the health minister, wants to be photographed with every person getting the vaccine. They also don't have enough, but what they have they mostly keep in stock, rather then vaccinate people with it.

I got my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine on the 24th and have my second dose scheduled for Valentine's Day.
I'm included in group 1B because of my job.

I got my second dose of the moderna yesterday morning. I didn't start feeling anything until about 5 hours after I got the shot. Last night I got some aches and pains and woke up this morning with my arm really sore and low grade fever off and on. After chills/aches and pains all morning I'm starting to feel better. Expecting to go back to work tomorrow. Not to bad considering how terrible covid can be. I'll take 24 hours of symptoms over weeks/months.

Quote from: Thewintersoldier on February 02, 2021, 09:06:17 PM
I got my second dose of the moderna yesterday morning. I didn't start feeling anything until about 5 hours after I got the shot. Last night I got some aches and pains and woke up this morning with my arm really sore and low grade fever off and on. After chills/aches and pains all morning I'm starting to feel better. Expecting to go back to work tomorrow. Not to bad considering how terrible covid can be. I'll take 24 hours of symptoms over weeks/months.

I wonder if there is any correlation of how you react to the shot, to how you would have reacted to getting it for real.

Quote from: Aentons on February 02, 2021, 09:32:50 PM

Quote from: Thewintersoldier on February 02, 2021, 09:06:17 PM
I got my second dose of the moderna yesterday morning. I didn't start feeling anything until about 5 hours after I got the shot. Last night I got some aches and pains and woke up this morning with my arm really sore and low grade fever off and on. After chills/aches and pains all morning I'm starting to feel better. Expecting to go back to work tomorrow. Not to bad considering how terrible covid can be. I'll take 24 hours of symptoms over weeks/months.

I wonder if there is any correlation of how you react to the shot, to how you would have reacted to getting it for real.

I don't think so, the side effects and severity seem to be pretty consistent amongst the people vaccinated at my work and my wife's work, and thats a pretty large diverse group of people in the healthcare system. Covid seems to be be pretty varied and how it affects people. I've seen young healthy people die and old immunocompromised people beat it. I don't wanna take the risk.

I got my second dose last week.  No chills or fever.  Just a sore arm and a headache the day after.  The worst of it came the evening after, I was sluggish and a bit more wore out than usual. By the next morning I was fine.

Waiting outside the clinic for my second dose right now.
I'm not expecting any serious side effects but we'll see....

I've had the rona twice and it was like a mild cold for me.
Even more mild the second time around, don't think I'll be getting or need the vaccine.

Just stayed home and let it run its course, pretty sure it was what I had back in November 2019, same exact symptoms, but not as bad this time.

Ironically caught it while following the guidelines. 🤷‍♂️

Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on January 28, 2021, 04:17:27 PM

Quote from: Matmosphere on January 28, 2021, 03:45:07 PM
I don't blame them for doing teachers first. It makes sense, people really want their kids back in school,

I would agree... if it wasn't for the fact that teacher's unions are arguing that they do not want to go back to in-class instruction even after getting prioritized for the vaccine  ::)

I teach and have been face to face with full classrooms of students since the first week of August.  I just received my second Moderna shot two days ago.  I took preemptive tylenol and avoided the feverish side-effects some experience.
I know you are referring to your local situation, but you are painting the picture with a very wide brush.  In TN, counties prioritize their vaccines.  Teachers were prioritized third behind nursing home/co-morbidities and 75 and over 1st, frontline med staff 2nd, then teachers in my county.  It was done to to keep schools open. 

Our schools in my county have been hit hard by Covid.  My son is 11 and had it.  We live alone and I did not catch it.  He was totally asymptomatic.  The kicker was I was sick as a dog for 2 weeks before and during XMAS and tested negative three times, while he tested with me, was positive and danced around and had a great extra long vacation. 

Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on January 28, 2021, 04:17:27 PM
I would agree... if it wasn't for the fact that teacher's unions are arguing that they do not want to go back to in-class instruction even after getting prioritized for the vaccine  ::)

The prioritization of educators varies greatly by state. Here in NJ, teachers *were* near the top of the list but were recently demoted in priority to anyone who smokes cigarettes. There are several teachers at my wife's school that still haven't even gotten their first round vaccination shot, but school was back in session 4 days a week starting the second week of January. How's that for stupid?

In my view, anyone who works on the "front line" (meaning that you work with the general public and can't control who you'll be in contact with on any given day) should get priority over work-from-home and office workers.

No idea when I will be eligible. Probably May/June.

My wife works in healthcare (she performs ERGs on eyes, so not frontline stuff), and she is on the phone every day trying to get a vaccine.  We live in Virginia, but she works in Maryland.  She keeps getting passed to "someone else" and doesn't seem any closer to getting vaccinated.  The person coordinating shots for her employer didn't include her on the email, so she missed her best opportunity, unfortunately.

Quote from: EBK on February 17, 2021, 03:52:11 PM
My wife works in healthcare (she performs ERGs on eyes, so not frontline stuff), and she is on the phone every day trying to get a vaccine.  We live in Virginia, but she works in Maryland.  She keeps getting passed to "someone else" and doesn't seem any closer to getting vaccinated.  The person coordinating shots for her employer didn't include her on the email, so she missed her best opportunity, unfortunately.

Yep, it's a shit-show from top to bottom. But considering the clown show that was running things when the pandemic kicked off, it's amazing we're not all dead.  ;D

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/retail-pharmacy-program/participating-pharmacies.html

This is the state by state list that shows what pharmacy (CVS, Walgreens, Rite Aid, Walmart) where you can book an appointment for a shot. It's different for every state. I would imagine this is likey how most people here in the states will be getting it

Quote from: Aentons on February 17, 2021, 04:34:09 PM
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/retail-pharmacy-program/participating-pharmacies.html

This is the state by state list that shows what pharmacy (CVS, Walgreens, Rite Aid, Walmart) where you can book an appointment for a shot. It's different for every state. I would imagine this is likey how most people here in the states will be getting it

Im stuck with walmart so I tested the process and this is the screen I get when I try to make an appointment

Here are the direct links to scheduling:

https://www.walmart.com/cp/1228302

https://www.samsclub.com/pharmacy/immunization?imzType=covid

https://www.walgreens.com/findcare/vaccination/covid-19

https://www.cvs.com/immunizations/covid-19-vaccine

Edit//

Blarg.. sorry my frustration got the better of me.. carry on

Quote from: EBK on February 17, 2021, 03:52:11 PM
My wife works in healthcare (she performs ERGs on eyes, so not frontline stuff), and she is on the phone every day trying to get a vaccine.  We live in Virginia, but she works in Maryland.  She keeps getting passed to "someone else" and doesn't seem any closer to getting vaccinated.  The person coordinating shots for her employer didn't include her on the email, so she missed her best opportunity, unfortunately.

Its a circus here in MD. Just recently, we had ALL but 770 doses of the vaccine pulled from our county and sent to other mass vaccination sites because the people there were going public and saying they were being discriminated against and not offered the vaccine. Seemed to be a political move on the part of the Governor. Lots of people in my area lined up for their 1st and 2nd doses showed up only to be told they were "not available." The local state congressman publicly lashed out at the Governor's office about it. Its all screwed up here  :-\

Still going extremely slow over here. Less then 1% of the population being vaccinated.

My wife is finally getting her first shot today.  The strategy that worked was finding someone who successfully got theirs, find out how they signed up, and having them help you hit the website each day to try to get an appointment slot before they are all gone.

Got my second shot last Thursday.  Felt pretty crappy about 4 hours in and stayed that way for about another 12.  All good.

My state decided to change the eligibility requirements a week before I would have been up to make an appointment so now I'm looking at mid April before I can even think about it

General population, my age bracket, officially not until July, yeah right, we'll see...  they just started on Monday, yesterday, doing those over 85 years old and they're swamped.
dave

My wife got her second shot about a week ago. I'm on the wait list for the first shot. No telling when I'll get the call.

Quote from: culturejam on March 03, 2021, 02:00:56 PM
My wife got her second shot about a week ago. I'm on the wait list for the first shot. No telling when I'll get the call.

I wasn't sure when I would be eligible...
Until earlier today when I got an email from Renown (basically the huge medical conglomerate that has their hands in damn near ever medical office in the area).
I'm scheduled for my first shot this Friday (March 19)

Got the Moderna and the first shot made my arm pretty sore the next two days and i felt barely a little funky the next day.
Getting my second dose on April 3. My wife was pretty down for a day after her second dose of Moderna.
I'm finally feeling a bit optimistic. I'll be considered fully vaccinated on the 17th of April and we're going to try to get some Mariners tickets for that weekend. WooHoo!

Quote from: jubal81 on March 16, 2021, 06:16:47 AM
Got the Moderna and the first shot made my arm pretty sore the next two days and i felt barely a little funky the next day.

I received my first dose of Moderna on Saturday. My experience was similar to yours.

Nice.  Congrats on the shots.  Haven't talked to anyone that's had the J&J and my sister in Canada is due for the Astra so I'm curious to see how that goes.  I felt crappier on the Pfizer the second time around but no fever and either way it was not at all a game changer.

Still a lot of stupidity out there but with enough immunity we negate the a$$holes.

My wife had the one shot J&J last Thursday at a CVS and has had zero issues

Quote from: gordo on March 16, 2021, 11:58:24 PM
Nice.  Congrats on the shots.  Haven't talked to anyone that's had the J&J and my sister in Canada is due for the Astra so I'm curious to see how that goes.  I felt crappier on the Pfizer the second time around but no fever and either way it was not at all a game changer.

Still a lot of stupidity out there but with enough immunity we negate the a$$holes.

Unfortunately the rest of us are going to have to hope some of those a$$hats get vaccinated in order to bring us up to the level of immunity we need, and then we have to start worrying about the rest of the world. We can't let this thing keep mutating forever, because if it does the vaccines will stop working as well.

My wife's parents have all gotten vaccinated and my older siblings have also gotten their first shots, so big sigh of relief. Hopefully the supply continues to increase rapidly. I was surprised by the goal being set for anyone to get the vaccine who wants it starting may 1. I have been pretty surprised by the level of mobilization that has been going on in the states these past couple of months.

Last i heard, my demographic in my province, i'm looking at July for the first or maybe only shot.
dave

I work with a guy that lives in Bahrain and last week he said almost all their regular citizens had already had their second shot.

Quote from: jubal81 on March 16, 2021, 06:16:47 AM
Got the Moderna and the first shot made my arm pretty sore the next two days and i felt barely a little funky the next day.
Getting my second dose on April 3. My wife was pretty down for a day after her second dose of Moderna.
I'm finally feeling a bit optimistic. I'll be considered fully vaccinated on the 17th of April and we're going to try to get some Mariners tickets for that weekend. WooHoo!

Got the Moderna today (yesterday)
My arm was sore before, so kind of hard to tell at this point.

Shot 1 tomorrow...
Hypertension has finally paid off  :D

Quote from: madbean on March 23, 2021, 04:36:26 PM
Shot 1 tomorrow...
Hypertension has finally paid off  :D

I'm on a waiting list.  My wife asked me if I wanted to step onto our bathroom scale to see if I'd qualify sooner.  I had very mixed feelings about her expression of care and concern.  Ultimately, I decided I'm protected well enough by my shield of social anxiety until my turn comes, so I declined a "weigh in".  :P

My wife is on her way home from her second shot right now.

I got Pfizer shot one today.  I'm feeling really tired, but no other side effects. 

Shot 1 today. Very mild soreness in arm but barely noticeable. However, the first couple hours after the shot I definitely felt a bit out of it. Felt fine afterward. I guess it kicks your immune system into high gear for a bit?

I became eligible at midnight and had my appointment scheduled 10 minutes later for Monday morning

For my first jab of Pfizer the other day.  Arm was sore like after a flu shot but everything else was fine.   Didn't even notice any blah feelings.   Happy to start getting this closer to over with!

Haven't had it yet, but I had a txt from my local pharmacy that this year's influenza shots are going to be heavily delayed. They didn't say, but I'm picking they had a choice of shipping either 'rona or flu, but not both.

(And as a side note, the NorthAm terminology of calling pharmacies "drug stores" always cracks me up. It sounds like you're going to the local tinnie house for medicine and not wacky baccy.)

Quote from: alanp on April 02, 2021, 05:17:33 PM
Haven't had it yet, but I had a txt from my local pharmacy that this year's influenza shots are going to be heavily delayed. They didn't say, but I'm picking they had a choice of shipping either 'rona or flu, but not both.

(And as a side note, the NorthAm terminology of calling pharmacies "drug stores" always cracks me up. It sounds like you're going to the local tinnie house for medicine and not wacky baccy.)

Okay, tinnie house is not one I've heard. Please share

Was announced yesterday that my demographic could get on the list for a shot at a nearby 'drug store', the one around the corner not part of the program, being April 1st took it as a scam. Today, it's really happening so my wife and i are on 'the list' for first available time which according to the system could still be months away,  yes still as scam.

Quote from: alanp on April 02, 2021, 05:17:33 PM
Haven't had it yet, but I had a txt from my local pharmacy that this year's influenza shots are going to be heavily delayed. They didn't say, but I'm picking they had a choice of shipping either 'rona or flu, but not both.

(And as a side note, the NorthAm terminology of calling pharmacies "drug stores" always cracks me up. It sounds like you're going to the local tinnie house for medicine and not wacky baccy.)

Canada's largest retail drug store chain is "Shopper's Drug Mart", i've never ever heard our legal retail weed stores  referred to as drug stores.
https://www1.shoppersdrugmart.ca/en/home
dave

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tinnie%20house (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tinnie%20house)

It's a pretty common slang term, here.

 Vaccines will work with your immune system so it will be ready to fight the virus if you are exposed. The combination of getting vaccinated and following the recommendations to protect yourself and others will offer the best protection from COVID-19. Stopping a pandemic requires using all the tools we have available. There's need to take it

I received from a friend a sketchy link to get vaccinated today in my area with the J&J vaccine.  Supposedly, no age or medical condition restrictions.  The link points to an app hosting platform called Heroku.  I'm staying away. 

I imagine the scam works like this:
1. Advertise immediate, ACT SOON, vaccine availability for otherwise ineligible folks.
2.  Gather personal information via web forms.
3. Throw a "Sorry, all appointments have been taken" error message.
4.  Sell the collected data.

Quote from: alanp on April 02, 2021, 06:44:04 PM
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tinnie%20house (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tinnie%20house)

It's a pretty common slang term, here.

May be uniquely New Zealand, from wikipedia;

In New Zealand, a "tinny" or "tinnie" can be a small package of cannabis wrapped in tin foil (cf. 'foilies' in Australia), retailing for between NZ$20–25 (depending on the region). A building where such retailing takes place (commonly a superficially unremarkable home) is a "tinnie house".[2] Other drugs such as methamphetamine may be available as well. In recent years the term has become not unusual in New Zealand court judgments involving the Misuse of Drugs Act.
dave

I got Pfizer #2 last week.  #1 had no side effects, #2 had me tired for about two days, but after that, back to normal.  I got it at a megasite run by the US military, extremely well run and efficient.  Those dudes run a tight ship

But according to an article I just read, Pfizer may only last six months then you need another, which I hope isn't correct

Quote from: dont-tase-me-bro on April 03, 2021, 12:15:07 AMBut according to an article I just read, Pfizer may only last six months then you need another, which I hope isn't correct

According to a public statement from Pfizer/BioNTech, they have data that indicates the the vaccine is 91% effective at least 6 months after vaccination.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-confirm-high-efficacy-and-no-serious

Got Moderna #1 on Wednesday.

Quote from: madbean on March 25, 2021, 01:14:03 AM
Shot 1 today. Very mild soreness in arm but barely noticeable. However, the first couple hours after the shot I definitely felt a bit out of it. Felt fine afterward. I guess it kicks your immune system into high gear for a bit?

Same exact response for me. Arm was sore, and I felt really weird for about 4-5 hours after the shot. Since then, no symptoms or side effects.

Probably it was the micro-chip powering up that made me feel weird.  :o ;D

Quote from: culturejam on April 03, 2021, 05:36:16 AM
Got Moderna #1 on Wednesday.

Quote from: madbean on March 25, 2021, 01:14:03 AM
Shot 1 today. Very mild soreness in arm but barely noticeable. However, the first couple hours after the shot I definitely felt a bit out of it. Felt fine afterward. I guess it kicks your immune system into high gear for a bit?

Same exact response for me. Arm was sore, and I felt really weird for about 4-5 hours after the shot. Since then, no symptoms or side effects.

Probably it was the micro-chip powering up that made me feel weird.  :o ;D

Well, it is designed by Bill Gates so it needs a bunch of patches and reboots after it first starts up

Quote from: DLW on April 03, 2021, 01:32:28 AM

Quote from: dont-tase-me-bro on April 03, 2021, 12:15:07 AMBut according to an article I just read, Pfizer may only last six months then you need another, which I hope isn't correct

According to a public statement from Pfizer/BioNTech, they have data that indicates the the vaccine is 91% effective at least 6 months after vaccination.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-confirm-high-efficacy-and-no-serious

I read similar things. Some people are saying immunity will start to drop off after six or seven months and decrease slowly. But hey, if we need a booster shot or whatever once a twice a year that really isn't a big deal. Most people get flu shots every year anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being similar.

The thing I have wondered about with all of this recently is, while the closest analogy we seem to have is the 1918 flu, the worlds population has increased by almost an order of magnitude since then. Does the high population allowing the virus to mutate more quickly, and what will that mean for the vaccines long term. Is this just going to be drawn out until a large enough percentage of the world can be vaccinated to prevent further mutations? I hope not, but either way things are a lot more hopeful now than they were a year ago.

I'm not saying they put a tracker in the vaccine, but if I hold my arms over my head I get really good reception on Ch 2  ::)

Quote from: Matmosphere on April 03, 2021, 11:26:35 AM

Quote from: DLW on April 03, 2021, 01:32:28 AM

Quote from: dont-tase-me-bro on April 03, 2021, 12:15:07 AMBut according to an article I just read, Pfizer may only last six months then you need another, which I hope isn't correct

According to a public statement from Pfizer/BioNTech, they have data that indicates the the vaccine is 91% effective at least 6 months after vaccination.

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-confirm-high-efficacy-and-no-serious

I read similar things. Some people are saying immunity will start to drop off after six or seven months and decrease slowly. But hey, if we need a booster shot or whatever once a twice a year that really isn't a big deal. Most people get flu shots every year anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being similar.

The thing I have wondered about with all of this recently is, while the closest analogy we seem to have is the 1918 flu, the worlds population has increased by almost an order of magnitude since then. Does the high population allowing the virus to mutate more quickly, and what will that mean for the vaccines long term. Is this just going to be drawn out until a large enough percentage of the world can be vaccinated to prevent further mutations? I hope not, but either way things are a lot more hopeful now than they were a year ago.

CoV2 will likely enter permanent circulation, as has been the case with virtually all pandemic viruses. It will also slowly mutate and force the need for modified vaccines and booster vaccinations. However, the threat posed by CoV2 (if you are fortunate/smart enough to be vaccinated or had COVID19), is effectively over. CoV2 is no longer a novel virus. Novel viruses are problematic, not just because they're unpredictable, but also our immune systems are completely naive to infection and disease is much more severe as a result - think small pox effect on native Americans in the 1600s. In other words, CoV2 will still cause disease and it makes sense from a public health perspective to continue to vaccinate against it, but the chance you'll be hospitalized or die from it is, by comparison to the situation in 2020, vanishingly small.

Tbh, I'd worry more about the next novel virus that will cause a pandemic. It sounds crazy, but we lucked out with CoV2. CoV2 is less infective than measles, less lethal than Ebola, doesn't cause birth defects like Zika, doesn't have a long incubation period like HIV, and is not hypermutable like influenza A. There is not much preventing a virus from being above average in all of those categories, and that would result in an existential threat to mankind.

Got my first shot today.  The hospital here has a real streamlined system, in and out real quick.  In fact, I spent more time waiting in line for coffee for my wife than at the hospital...

All that to say, I hope whoever in the government who is assigned to reading my thoughts likes guitars  ;D

 Scheduled for the 1 shot version Wednesday. May still back out.

Got my first shot this morning as well. Went smoothly except the guy in the observation room who pulled his mask down to sneeze

I got dose #1 today. Strange feeling... and I don't mean the side effects, but that all this might be over in a few months.

Quote from: aion on April 06, 2021, 01:52:21 AM
I got dose #1 today. Strange feeling... and I don't mean the side effects, but that all this might be over in a few months.

Glad you got it Kevin, I wish this would be over in a couple months. Working in the hospital and seeing co workers getting it covid for the second time and people going on vacations and spreading it makes me think we are in this for the long haul...

Quote from: Thewintersoldier on April 07, 2021, 10:49:42 AM

Quote from: aion on April 06, 2021, 01:52:21 AM
I got dose #1 today. Strange feeling... and I don't mean the side effects, but that all this might be over in a few months.

Glad you got it Kevin, I wish this would be over in a couple months. Working in the hospital and seeing co workers getting it covid for the second time and people going on vacations and spreading it makes me think we are in this for the long haul...

I think you're right, hope you're wrong... double mutant first identified in India just identified in California, today's paper.

My daughter called yesterday morning to tell us one of her news feeds, in our ever changing constantly in flux eligibility constraints, her parents now made the cut to get vaccinated, was in today's paper. Took five ten minutes to book the pairs of appointments for us, program starts next Tuesday, we're in on Wednesday the 14th.

The morning news leak has the province going back into shutdown at midnight, press conference at 1pm.
dave

My 14 y.o. had her second rapid test today due to another exposure at school :(

Quote from: madbean on April 07, 2021, 03:45:19 PM
My 14 y.o. had her second rapid test today due to another exposure at school :(

Oh no, I hope it turns out well and the whole family doesn't get exposed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: jimilee on April 07, 2021, 03:48:52 PM

Quote from: madbean on April 07, 2021, 03:45:19 PM
My 14 y.o. had her second rapid test today due to another exposure at school :(

Oh no, I hope it turns out well and the whole family doesn't get exposed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yup, this. Take care man, I hope all is well.

I read an article on NBC News this past week about a new variant that they are concerned might be much worse for younger kids. Has me a little concerned.

Quote from: jimilee on April 07, 2021, 03:48:52 PM

Quote from: madbean on April 07, 2021, 03:45:19 PM
My 14 y.o. had her second rapid test today due to another exposure at school :(

Oh no, I hope it turns out well and the whole family doesn't get exposed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We actually already got a negative an hour ago. It really WAS rapid!

Bean: What the Hell am I lookin' at? When does this happen in the movie?
Sandurz: Now. Whatever you're looking at now, is happening now.
Bean: Well, what happened to then?
Sandurz: We just passed it.
Bean: When?
Sandurz: Just now.
Bean: Well, go back to then.
Sandurz: We can't.
Bean: Why not?
Sandurz: We already passed it.
Bean: When will then be now?
Sandurz: Soon.

Got 2nd shot yesterday at about noon. Woke up early this morning feeling fine and then it hit me hard about 9:30. Like worst hangover ever and fever of 101. Chills. Shivering.
Now at about 2:10 I've still got a little fever and feel achy and worn out, but much better.

Quote from: PapaKev on April 05, 2021, 03:41:33 PM
Scheduled for the 1 shot version Wednesday. May still back out.

And... I got the shot. Arm hurt for about 5 min. No pain now, no dif in anything that I can tell. Will let you know about anything that might come up. Nice to know I don't have to get a 2nd shot, that's for sure.

I got my first dose New Year's Eve.  My arm was super sore but otherwise no complications.  Second dose was a month later and, again, little to no complications (and less arm pain too).

I had COVID last November.  I think I got it working at the polls on election day.  My symptoms were not too bad.  The lost taste and smell was unpleasant and, months later, I still have weird phantom smells and my taste buds are a little off sometimes but I'm alive and kicking.

First jab scheduled in two weeks.

My wife and I got our first shots last Thursday.  Thank you Jesus!  :P

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210415/c48c234f9c78e6ca2487a4b579c87771.jpg)

Quote from: Stomptown on April 15, 2021, 03:49:08 AM
My wife and I got our first shots last Thursday.  Thank you Jesus!  :P

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210415/c48c234f9c78e6ca2487a4b579c87771.jpg)

That's great!

Five & half hours ago my wife & i had our first date with Pfizer, 35 minute walk there all downhill, 50 minute walk home all uphill...

Quote from: davent on April 15, 2021, 03:56:27 AM

Quote from: Stomptown on April 15, 2021, 03:49:08 AM
My wife and I got our first shots last Thursday.  Thank you Jesus!  :P

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210415/c48c234f9c78e6ca2487a4b579c87771.jpg)

That's great!

Five & half hours ago my wife & i had our first date with Pfizer, 35 minute walk there all downhill, 50 minute walk home all uphill...

We had to drive about an hour and half east to a rural town to get ours.  Apparently, they were throwing away vaccines due to a lack of local interest.

Quote from: Stomptown on April 15, 2021, 04:15:59 AM
We had to drive about an hour and half east to a rural town to get ours.  Apparently, they were throwing away vaccines due to a lack of local interest.

We've got a federal mass vaccination site up here in Yakima (1,200 shots a day) and 65% are going to people from the west side of the mountains.

Quote from: jubal81 on April 15, 2021, 05:12:04 AM

Quote from: Stomptown on April 15, 2021, 04:15:59 AM
We had to drive about an hour and half east to a rural town to get ours.  Apparently, they were throwing away vaccines due to a lack of local interest.

We've got a federal mass vaccination site up here in Yakima (1,200 shots a day) and 65% are going to people from the west side of the mountains.

I'm about 2hrs south of you in The Dalles.  Similar demographics to Yakima so I would bet my $$$ that a lot of shots here are going to folks west of the Cascades as well.

My family is going in "vacation" this weekend (starting this afternoon, actually).  My wife is the only one of us that is vaccinated.  My anxiety level is super high, and I'm dreading the idea of being in a hotel.  To me, it is like touring the collapsed Chernobyl reactor.  :(

Quote from: PapaKev on April 07, 2021, 10:18:50 PM

Quote from: PapaKev on April 05, 2021, 03:41:33 PM
Scheduled for the 1 shot version Wednesday. May still back out.

And... I got the shot. Arm hurt for about 5 min. No pain now, no dif in anything that I can tell. Will let you know about anything that might come up. Nice to know I don't have to get a 2nd shot, that's for sure.

After 1 week, no side effects...yet. I knew as soon as I got the shot something would happen to make me question my decision. Never fails.

Quote from: EBK on April 15, 2021, 12:27:49 PM
My family is going in "vacation" this weekend (starting this afternoon, actually).  My wife is the only one of us that is vaccinated.  My anxiety level is super high, and I'm dreading the idea of being in a hotel.  To me, it is like touring the collapsed Chernobyl reactor.  :(

If it makes you feel any better, my group has been traveling all over the state of WV since this thing started. Staying in hotels up down interstate 77. License plates from all over the county at these locations. No one in our group has gotten Covid. We also ate out at least 2 times per day at these locations.

It took me a second but the "thank you Jesus" reference is hilarious!!!  The American ones (at least the ones in Illinois) aren't signed but Emmanuel would be a sly tip of the hat.

Quote from: gordo on April 15, 2021, 11:32:19 PM
It took me a second but the "thank you Jesus" reference is hilarious!!!  The American ones (at least the ones in Illinois) aren't signed but Emmanuel would be a sly tip of the hat.

Haha.  Yeah, we were quite literally vaccinated by the hands of Jesus. 😂

Na, my feet are clean but thanks.  Just need the shot please...

Quote from: Stomptown on April 16, 2021, 12:02:52 AM

Quote from: gordo on April 15, 2021, 11:32:19 PM
It took me a second but the "thank you Jesus" reference is hilarious!!!  The American ones (at least the ones in Illinois) aren't signed but Emmanuel would be a sly tip of the hat.

Haha.  Yeah, we were quite literally vaccinated by the hands of Jesus. 😂

That's the dude in that Lebowski movie right? The one in the purple jumpsuit with the hairnet?

Quote from: Stomptown on April 15, 2021, 03:49:08 AM
My wife and I got our first shots last Thursday.  Thank you Jesus!  :P

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210415/c48c234f9c78e6ca2487a4b579c87771.jpg)

(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/52787012/de-nada.jpg)

First shot is tomorrow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I got all signed up for the J&J shot.... and then it got canceled

Just got my second Pfizer and it's been a doozy - I've been exhausted for the last 24 hours. It's nice to approach some kind of finish line, though.

Right?  Even if you half to crawl across it half asleep...

Got second dose of Moderna on Wednesday.

Feeling fairly crummy, little aches and chills, but nothing too bad.

First shot didn't get any side effects

There's talk of yearly vaccines like the flu shots.


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Quote from: jimilee on April 16, 2021, 11:39:49 PM
There's talk of yearly vaccines like the flu shots.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What I keep hearing is that once the "novelty" or newness is gone by having even a single vaccination that the casualty rate drops like rock and it will essentially not be as big of a deal as it has been.

I wouldn't mind hearing some knowledgeable thoughts around that.

Quote from: vizcities on April 16, 2021, 06:18:01 PM
Just got my second Pfizer and it's been a doozy - I've been exhausted for the last 24 hours. It's nice to approach some kind of finish line, though.

Hope it doesn't get too bad for you. My second shot is this coming Wednesday. Fortunately, I think I will be able to not do a damn thing that day in case it goes south for me.

Quote from: madbean on April 17, 2021, 01:22:52 AM

Quote from: vizcities on April 16, 2021, 06:18:01 PM
Just got my second Pfizer and it's been a doozy - I've been exhausted for the last 24 hours. It's nice to approach some kind of finish line, though.

Hope it doesn't get too bad for you. My second shot is this coming Wednesday. Fortunately, I think I will be able to not do a damn thing that day in case it goes south for me.

I thought I was in the clear after the 24hr mark but unfortunately it started hitting me around 28hrs or so. Luckily, I never passed 99.0 degrees.

Quote from: peAk on April 16, 2021, 10:28:55 PM
Got second dose of Moderna on Wednesday.

Feeling fairly crummy, little aches and chills, but nothing too bad.

First shot didn't get any side effects

I got my second shot about 18 hours ago,
Achy, light fever, kind of weak, but I have had far worse.
Left arm where I got the shot hurts though. Can't move it much without pain.

I'm moving in 2 days. I'm ain't doing shit today.

You guys hear about the Johnson & Johnson brand causing blood clots?
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0413-JJ-vaccine.html

Quote from: redkurn on April 18, 2021, 11:39:22 PM
You guys hear about the Johnson & Johnson brand causing blood clots?
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0413-JJ-vaccine.html

6 people in 6.8 million. I'd take those odds.

Quote from: jimilee on April 19, 2021, 12:06:41 AM

Quote from: redkurn on April 18, 2021, 11:39:22 PM
You guys hear about the Johnson & Johnson brand causing blood clots?
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0413-JJ-vaccine.html

6 people in 6.8 million. I'd take those odds.

Yep, You have a higher risk of blood clot from being pregnant or being on birth control

Quote from: Aentons on April 19, 2021, 01:02:53 AM

Quote from: jimilee on April 19, 2021, 12:06:41 AM

Quote from: redkurn on April 18, 2021, 11:39:22 PM
You guys hear about the Johnson & Johnson brand causing blood clots?
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0413-JJ-vaccine.html

6 people in 6.8 million. I'd take those odds.

Yep, You have a higher risk of blood clot from being pregnant or being on birth control

And I f I have either of those, there are bigger problems....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea those odds do seem quite low, I just heard about it.

2nd J&J shot about 26 hours ago. Not sick yet but I have been a real space cadet since I got the shot. Pretty out of it for the last day. Arm doesn't hurt yet.

 You must be out of it, because your booster was Moderna, not J&J ;)

Glad to hear your side effects were relatively mild... Curious whether you had a more severe response to the first shot (compared to the second) or if you have reason to believe you were infected with Cov2 at some point? Anecdotal evidence would suggest one of those two scenarios may lessen the side effect of the booster shot.

Quote from: DLW on April 22, 2021, 04:28:10 PM
You must be out of it, because your booster was Moderna, not J&J ;)

Maybe he's been working on new Headtrip patches  :P

Quote from: DLW on April 22, 2021, 04:28:10 PM
You must be out of it, because your booster was Moderna, not J&J ;)

Glad to hear your side effects were relatively mild... Curious whether you had a more severe response to the first shot (compared to the second) or if you have reason to believe you were infected with Cov2 at some point? Anecdotal evidence would suggest one of those two scenarios may lessen the side effect of the booster shot.

Oops, yeah I forgot about that! Same kind of dissociative feeling as the first shot but it's lasted longer this time. I'm not concerned. It's not causing any cognitive problems other than being a bit out of it. Overall the feeling is going away slowly.

Yeah I'm so psuedobaked I forgot I started with Pfizer not J&J. I think that's enough typing for me today.

Just got my first shot of Pfizer yesterday. I have been in and out of it, slight nausea, and light fatigue... so far

got first dose of Moderna today ... not much to it, not even a sore arm

Buddy I work with got his 2nd shot Friday. Got sick Sunday. Made it to work Monday but camped out in his hotel room. Fever, losing fluids through both ends. Not pretty. Was better Tuesday. Fully recovered Wednesday.

Boy it seems reactions are certainly all over the place. I'm feeling 100% now. Wife had her 2nd shot the same day and feels like crap. In any case, I'm just so grateful to have the vaccine. We've been super careful for the last year because we both have health concerns that are disagreeable with COVID. We've been very fortunate.

As a complete tangent, wife's company is putting most staff on permanent work from home since they all did such a kickass job over the last year. So, both of us will be home based from now on. Does anyone want to adopt me?

(I keed, I keed. I love my wife. It's a good thing for her.)

Quote from: madbean on April 23, 2021, 01:28:12 AM
As a complete tangent, wife's company is putting most staff on permanent work from home since they all did such a kickass job over the last year. So, both of us will be home based from now on.

My job is looking to be the same outcome, almost. I'll still likely end up going in one or two days a week, but it's going to be very flexible.

It's taken me most of the year to figure out how to work from home. I had about a 3-4 hour commute everyday and didn't miss it at all but just couldn't get my bearings. Now that I'm dialed in it looks like I'll go back in before fall.

I got into a short but fun spell of day drinking and built a TON of pedals. Was a pretty happy camper to get that second shot though.

I've been furloughed for a whole year now but I'll be handing in my resignation when they call me back

mine's done nothing but pressure me the whole time to return to the office against medical advice ... I have a second interview elsewhere in the morning.

Quote from: thesmokingman on April 23, 2021, 03:42:41 AM
mine's done nothing but pressure me the whole time to return to the office against medical advice ... I have a second interview elsewhere in the morning.

Shit, man. That sucks. But good on you for looking elsewhere. Best of luck to you!

Yesterday, I visited my office for the first time in over a year (I had to pick a few personal belongings).  The building was completely deserted, but things were still where I left them like the place was abandoned suddenly in the wake of a catastrophic disaster (because it was).  It was creepy, like walking into a movie about the apocalypse.  The only thing spoiling the scene was the fact that all the lights were still working.

Got my first Pfizer shot a week ago. I had a sore arm that night but it was fine by the next day. Kind of dreading the second one but really thankful to even have the opportunity and glad to do my part. My wife works in a school library so she's been vaccinated for a while. Everyone in my household is at least partially vaccinated at this time which feels really good.

I got my second Pfizer this week.  Had some chills overnight and a bit of blah feeling the next day.  Tylenol helped keep it at bay and eating a bit more would have helped.  By the day after, I was fine.

Quote from: EBK on April 23, 2021, 10:53:10 AM
Yesterday, I visited my office for the first time in over a year (I had to pick a few personal belongings).  The building was completely deserted, but things were still where I left them like the place was abandoned suddenly in the wake of a catastrophic disaster (because it was).  It was creepy, like walking into a movie about the apocalypse.  The only thing spoiling the scene was the fact that all the lights were still working.

We're only allowed to go into the office with permission and we need a damn good reason to do so, but the lights are all on (they're motion sensed), the vending machines are stocked, etc. It really is kind of creepy.

I believe I'll no longer have an office when we open back up. I can do everything I currently do from home, but unfortunately might get stuck with some project work that uhhh requires my physical presence in a specific location, which is really irritating if I'm being honest.

Quote from: midwayfair on April 24, 2021, 03:49:23 PM
We're only allowed to go into the office with permission and we need a damn good reason to do so, but the lights are all on (they're motion sensed), the vending machines are stocked, etc. It really is kind of creepy.

I believe I'll no longer have an office when we open back up. I can do everything I currently do from home, but unfortunately might get stuck with some project work that uhhh requires my physical presence in a specific location, which is really irritating if I'm being honest.

We've been "work from home" for a year now, and I suspect that will be the way of the future.  It will and won't work at the same time.  We're a project based company (typically in the $20M - $50M per project), and while you can do some work effectively from home, the reality is at the start of a project (like we're just getting in to now), you need a lot of interaction with all parties involved and that works better face to face until you get far enough into fabrication that most items become routine.  I can see us changing to modular work station layout, where we pickup a new space with less physical area than we currently have, and people come in on a needs basis.

Back to the topic on hand, my jab in the arm has been rescheduled to next Thursday due to shortage of vaccine.  And I've just come off a jobsite where there was a massive outbreak in the trailer next to ours (read 8 ft away), so there's that.....

I currently have Moderna stab #1 scheduled for this Friday.  Not looking forward to it, but I need to do my part for the war effort.  ;)

Quote from: GermanCdn on April 26, 2021, 03:49:36 PM
We've been "work from home" for a year now, and I suspect that will be the way of the future.

Only for officework, and even then... I've seen a lot of people come and go at my job and some people just don't work much (or at all) without either supervision, or other people actively working in their area.

I like to work alone, need to work alone but if i had to work, do my job from home, i don't think i could do it, i had to have jobs that were site specific and couldn't be taken home with you, punch the clock and done. Home was the escape the refuge.

All the best to all!
dave

Quote from: alanp on April 26, 2021, 04:00:39 PM
Only for officework, and even then... I've seen a lot of people come and go at my job and some people just don't work much (or at all) without either supervision, or other people actively working in their area.

Yeah, that's kind of my feeling/point.  We're a relatively small office (<30 people), and about 12 need more or less constant attention or things don't get done/aren't done right.

Pfizer #2 about an hour ago. Almost no symptoms for the first one so I'm hoping for another good dice roll on this one too.

Just got scheduled for the JJ shot tomorrow at my nearest CVS "drug store"

Quote from: aion on April 26, 2021, 08:30:27 PM
Pfizer #2 about an hour ago. Almost no symptoms for the first one so I'm hoping for another good dice roll on this one too.

If you start believing you are at a Phish concert and the audience is made up of gophers that's actually totally normal.

Got my second Pfizer just about 24 hours ago. Feeling pretty good. Don't wanna jinx myself

Had my 2nd Phizer on Saturday.  Felt great other than a sore arm Saturday.  Sunday I woke up feeling like I drank 24 beers, and I only had 12 so that wasn't fair....Seriously it felt like an all day hangover that you couldn't shake, the likes of which I haven't felt since my early 20's.  Then at about 4 ocklock I started sweating profusely and 10 minutes later I was fine.  My wife felt fine about 4 hours later.

Quote from: madbean on April 27, 2021, 01:06:46 AM

Quote from: aion on April 26, 2021, 08:30:27 PM
Pfizer #2 about an hour ago. Almost no symptoms for the first one so I'm hoping for another good dice roll on this one too.

If you start believing you are at a Phish concert and the audience is made up of gophers that's actually totally normal.

Notices roadie is Carl Spackler..

Quote from: Aentons on April 26, 2021, 09:23:22 PM
Just got scheduled for the JJ shot tomorrow at my nearest CVS "drug store"

Got my single shot yesterday and zero effects so far

Scheduled for my first dose this afternoon. I don't know which type, but it's mostly been Pfizer and Moderna locally. I'd prefer the Pfizer personally.

Jacob

My only effects from my pfizer second dose on Monday was swollen armpits

Interesting.  This is the second report of armpit lymph node problems I've heard.  Weird.

I had a little bit of that too, I though it was just me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Band name? Armpit Lymph

Swollen pit lymph nodes occurs in almost everybody with arm vaccines, but only few people may notice. Not a problem at all. That's the location of the draining lymph node where T and B cells are making shit happen.

Quote from: DLW on April 28, 2021, 07:40:07 PM
Swollen pit lymph nodes occurs in almost everybody with arm vaccines, but only few people may notice. Not a problem at all. That's the location of the draining lymph node where T and B cells are making shit happen.

If I can feel my T and B cells "making shit happen", it may actually help my general anxiety level.  (My first shot is Friday morning.)

Quote from: EBK on April 28, 2021, 08:16:30 PM

Quote from: DLW on April 28, 2021, 07:40:07 PM
Swollen pit lymph nodes occurs in almost everybody with arm vaccines, but only few people may notice. Not a problem at all. That's the location of the draining lymph node where T and B cells are making shit happen.

If I can feel my T and B cells "making shit happen", it may actually help my general anxiety level.  (My first shot is Friday morning.)

NGL, that second shot kicked my ass, but 1. that means it's priming a strong immune response and 2. the side effects go away 100% in short order. A week after your final dose, your life can return to normal. Let that sink in... As an example, you can run to the store to get a snack and not have to question whether or not that little snack is worth putting yourself or a friend/family member in the hospital.

Got my second Moderna shot today. So far, no symptoms or side effects (just like the first one). I did get a brief swollen lymph node about 45 minutes after the shot, but it was gone in about an hour.

My first Moderna shot is a couple hours from now.  I hate needles. 

Quote from: EBK on April 30, 2021, 11:54:36 AM
My first Moderna shot is a couple hours from now.  I hate needles.

I used to get allergy shots every week. Best thing to do is shake out your arm a bit and let your muscles completely relax; like your arm is just dangling off the side of your body relaxed. It makes it hurt way less, probably not at all if you can really relax those muscles.

Where they'll jab you for this one is in fat not muscle so you shouldn't feel much of anything.

It's not the pain of the needles that bugs me.  Hard to explain.  Some kind of panic response in my brain, perhaps.  I tend to feel nauseated immediately after a needle poke.  Sometimes I sweat a lot too or feel lightheaded.
Blood draws are far worse for me than injections (but the sight of blood doesn't bother me at all).

Update: The shot is in.  So far, so good.

The needle thing is way more common than you'd think.  In a more normal situation (not the "next!" approach to Covid) a nurse that's paying attention to any body language will have you lie down in case you decide to hit the deck.

Quote from: Matmosphere on April 30, 2021, 12:17:19 PM

Quote from: EBK on April 30, 2021, 11:54:36 AM
My first Moderna shot is a couple hours from now.  I hate needles.

I used to get allergy shots every week. Best thing to do is shake out your arm a bit and let your muscles completely relax; like your arm is just dangling off the side of your body relaxed. It makes it hurt way less, probably not at all if you can really relax those muscles.

Where they'll jab you for this one is in fat not muscle so you shouldn't feel much of anything.

Felt my shot as a very mild prick, hardly noticeable, not what i was expecting, get blood drawn too regularly and that's a far more noticeable sensation but again not painful.

dave

Quote from: davent on April 30, 2021, 04:08:21 PM

Quote from: Matmosphere on April 30, 2021, 12:17:19 PM

Quote from: EBK on April 30, 2021, 11:54:36 AM
My first Moderna shot is a couple hours from now.  I hate needles.

I used to get allergy shots every week. Best thing to do is shake out your arm a bit and let your muscles completely relax; like your arm is just dangling off the side of your body relaxed. It makes it hurt way less, probably not at all if you can really relax those muscles.

Where they'll jab you for this one is in fat not muscle so you shouldn't feel much of anything.

Felt my shot as a very mild prick, hardly noticeable, not what i was expecting, get blood drawn too regularly and that's a far more noticeable sensation but again not painful.

dave

Yeah, a good phlebotomist makes a world of difference when you get blood drawn (I have a fair amount of experience with that as well.)

Quote from: EBK on April 30, 2021, 12:27:27 PM
It's not the pain of the needles that bugs me.  Hard to explain.  Some kind of panic response in my brain, perhaps.  I tend to feel nauseated immediately after a needle poke.  Sometimes I sweat a lot too or feel lightheaded.
Blood draws are far worse for me than injections (but the sight of blood doesn't bother me at all).

Update: The shot is in.  So far, so good.

Yeah, I get it. It is a pretty unnatural way for something to enter our bodies, your instincts are probably just kicking in a little, nothing wrong with that IMO.

Hope side effects are mild, other than the desire to go to gigs again ;)

Been a couple days now, and I had some strong arm soreness, and some sore throat symptoms, but nothing I was worried about. My wife, who has chronic fatigue and may have Fibro Mialga (another story) had similar symptoms, but also has felt a lot more drained. We expected it, and aren't worried at all.

We are some of the first 30 year olds in our province to get the shot. It's 40 and up most other places, but here in the North they had extra doses.

Looks like second dose is supposed to be in August.

Jacob

Had Mod Jab #1 yesterday with my wife.  Felt really good for 6 hours, then outright crashed (i.e. slept) for 12 hours, and today feel fine beside a little injection pain.  Bonnie didn't fair quite as well,  joint pain and general lethargy today, but she typically has those reactions to the flu shot as well.

#2 scheduled second week of June.

Quote from: GermanCdn on May 07, 2021, 09:48:24 PM
Had Mod Jab #1 yesterday with my wife.  Felt really good for 6 hours, then outright crashed (i.e. slept) for 12 hours, and today feel fine beside a little injection pain.  Bonnie didn't fair quite as well,  joint pain and general lethargy today, but she typically has those reactions to the flu shot as well.

#2 scheduled second week of June.

Which one did the two of you get? Very busy at the venue?
dave

My 17 year old got his second jab of Pfizer today.  Curious to see how he'll be tomorrow.  I was fatigued the day after but not real bad.  Very similar to if I had tied one on the night before.

My wife and I had Moderna #2 yesterday.  I had a mild headache and arm pain after about two hours and thought I was mostly in the clear. Woke up at 3AM with terrible head and body aches, fever, chills, nausea, and dizziness. My wife is now dealing with body aches and dizziness but she's doing better that I am overall. Hopefully we start feeling better by tomorrow.

Quote from: Stomptown on May 07, 2021, 09:54:23 PM
My wife and I had Moderna #2 yesterday.  I had a mild headache and arm pain after about two hours and thought I was mostly in the clear. Woke up at 3AM with terrible head and body aches, fever, chills, nausea, and dizziness. My wife is now dealing with body aches and dizziness but she's doing better that I am overall. Hopefully we start feeling better by tomorrow.

That was me. Next day was better, but I was exhausted. Second day I was fine, like nothing happened.

Got 2nd Pfizer this morning. Same shoulder pain as first jab but I feel pretty normal otherwise so far.

I got my second Moderna shot at the local Walmart pharmacy on Tuesday. Got a headache and developed a low-grade fever with the accompanying chills and body aches that evening which lasted for around 24 hours but by Wednesday night I felt fine again except for a sore arm. Not great, but I'll take that over actually getting COVID any day!

Quote from: davent on May 07, 2021, 09:53:11 PM

Quote from: GermanCdn on May 07, 2021, 09:48:24 PM
Had Mod Jab #1 yesterday with my wife.  Felt really good for 6 hours, then outright crashed (i.e. slept) for 12 hours, and today feel fine beside a little injection pain.  Bonnie didn't fair quite as well,  joint pain and general lethargy today, but she typically has those reactions to the flu shot as well.

#2 scheduled second week of June.

Which one did the two of you get? Very busy at the venue?
dave

Modern a.  Wasn't busy, but it was a very small pharmacy so by definition it can't be that busy.

Daughter has been very sick all week. We had to get her tested. Third test, third negative. I'm glad but this is getting a bit frustrating. I think the under 16 group will be available soon from what Ive heard.

However rapid testing is impressive. They did it at CVS at a small building that was constructed just for COVID testing and had the results in 30 minutes. After the negative, they brought us into the little clinic and she saw their on site doctor who tested her for Strep (neg) then gave us a list of OTC meds to get for her symptoms. No waiting, no bill for anything. This must be what other countries are used to but it was kind of amazing to me.

I do have to add that it has been shocking to see how swift it has been to be able to get the jabs here in Florida, with caveats of being in an urban area and having at least basic computer savvy.  In my county, the DoH has a site (using SalesForce of all things on the backend) that keeps it simple and actually works well enough.  I was able to get the in-laws scheduled back in Jan/Feb without any fuss and then myself, the Mrs and my oldest in early April as they lowered the age requirements.  The facility was like walking thru a Disney ride as a celebrity.  We had the shot in under 5 minutes of arrival and then just had to wait the 15 minutes.  I know other areas have lines out the door and it takes hours which is a massive barrier to getting the shot at all.   It's astounding when the local government can have their collective crap together well enough to make the process surprisingly smooth.

Getting flu shots for the kids is usually a much larger hassle than this one has been.

I got Moderna shot #2 today.
Shot #1 gave me back pain for a few days (I think it did, anyway based on the timing-- getting older could have also contributed). 
I am hoping for some side effects to shot #2 to let me know it is working.  ;D

Update:  vaccine is definitely working.  I feel full-on achey and faux-fevery.  8)

I got my second Pfizer shot a few weeks ago.  Sadly, it has not improved my guitar playing.

Has it improved your cellphone reception?  ;) ;D

I checked the NZ Govt covid19 website, and I'm in the least priority group, and due for the jab about... July-ish?

About 24 hours after my shot, every part of my body is aching.  Even my hair hurts.  I go from freezing to sweating, depending on whether I'm on Tylenol.  My thoughts are cloudy. Not fun.  Still, it beats getting COVID-19, I'm sure, so I'm oddly thankful for my symptoms. 

Quote from: EBK on May 29, 2021, 01:11:04 PM
About 24 hours after my shot, every part of my body is aching.  Even my hair hurts.  I go from freezing to sweating, depending on whether I'm on Tylenol.  My thoughts are cloudy. Not fun.  Still, it beats getting COVID-19, I'm sure, so I'm oddly thankful for my symptoms.

Hope it doesn't last too long. I wonder if there is any correlation between how bad your reaction to the virus is to how badly getting COVID would make you sick. Probably no way to know I guess.

Quote from: EBK on May 29, 2021, 01:11:04 PM
About 24 hours after my shot, every part of my body is aching.  Even my hair hurts.  I go from freezing to sweating, depending on whether I'm on Tylenol.  My thoughts are cloudy. Not fun.  Still, it beats getting COVID-19, I'm sure, so I'm oddly thankful for my symptoms.

Those were the exact symptoms I had for a week, short the sweating, my fever would come on around 8-9pm like clock work, but I would sleep most the day and be extremely cold most of the night.

I didn't even know I had it because ear infection at the same time, the ear infection was actually worse for me and nothing they gave actually worked.

Any experts correct me here (and there are a lot on this forum) but I think that's the worry with younger kids is that their immune systems are so on point that the symptoms might be rather severe.  My mom (in her 80's) had just a minor sore arm.  I (in my 60's) had pretty minor reaction for 24 hours.  When I had Covid I had what I'd consider minor symptoms as well.

Still no shot here in the Netherlands, but we have of course the worst minister for health in the universe. It's only now that at 52 I'm finally eligible to get the vaccine. I have an appointment for over 2 weeks time. Probably Pfizer or Moderna, as Astrazenica has been restricted to 60+ only. Some age groups are getting Jansen, if you're born in 1967 to 1968.

Quote from: gordo on May 29, 2021, 08:02:37 PM
Any experts correct me here (and there are a lot on this forum) but I think that's the worry with younger kids is that their immune systems are so on point that the symptoms might be rather severe.  My mom (in her 80's) had just a minor sore arm.  I (in my 60's) had pretty minor reaction for 24 hours.  When I had Covid I had what I'd consider minor symptoms as well.

My 17 year old got his second Pfizer shot in early May and his symptoms were about the same as mine - feeling pretty bleh the next day with a low fever and soreness.   That went away by late afternoon the day after the shot and nothing since then.   My 14 & 15 year olds get their second jab of Pfizer next week but I suspect they will have very similar side effects.

Got Pfizered about 90 minutes ago, can't really lift my arm, my back aches and I feel a little out of it and I couldn't be happier.

Congrats! I got both rounds of Moderna and just had the arm soreness and a low fever on the second one.

Quote from: gordo on May 29, 2021, 08:02:37 PM
Any experts correct me here (and there are a lot on this forum) but I think that's the worry with younger kids is that their immune systems are so on point that the symptoms might be rather severe.  My mom (in her 80's) had just a minor sore arm.  I (in my 60's) had pretty minor reaction for 24 hours.  When I had Covid I had what I'd consider minor symptoms as well.

My Daughter falls in the "high risk" category, My wife and I decided not to tell her that we all somehow managed to contract it, but she didn't even notice.
Didn't feel well for a day and fine after, We weren't exactly worried though and the reason we decided not to disclose to her is the same most governments regret making this out to be way worse than it was, she would have went into extreme panic mode.

Just what I saw happen, I don't know if others children would experience something worse.

Quote from: Scruffie on June 02, 2021, 12:13:25 PM
Got Pfizered about 90 minutes ago, can't really lift my arm, my back aches and I feel a little out of it and I couldn't be happier.

I got the 'derna, and had the same thing with the arm. It felt super heavy for half a day. Then a little malaise and all good.

Quote from: culturejam on June 04, 2021, 01:56:48 AM

Quote from: Scruffie on June 02, 2021, 12:13:25 PM
Got Pfizered about 90 minutes ago, can't really lift my arm, my back aches and I feel a little out of it and I couldn't be happier.

I got the 'derna, and had the same thing with the arm. It felt super heavy for half a day. Then a little malaise and all good.

It wasn't heavy as such (apart from maybe the first six hours when I was still a bit dazed) just any movement 'the wrong way' felt like tearing every muscle in it, nearly back to normal this morning though... unless I poke it.

A day and a half with only one arm working and sleeping on my right side was worth a little avoiding a potentially horrible death.

i got vaccine from 11 june 2021 (10.00am)and now 13 june 2021
the vaccine is astrazeneca after 30mnt-1hour vaccine i feel sleepy ultil i felt asleep later on when the sun set i got fever for 2 days on day 3 i fell better no headache

I'm booked in.  Won't get it until next month.

Got my first shot of Pfizer last saturday, gave a zumba class the next morning. Only thing I noticed was like somebody punched my left arm.

Quote from: Scruffie on June 04, 2021, 09:23:53 AM

Quote from: culturejam on June 04, 2021, 01:56:48 AM

Quote from: Scruffie on June 02, 2021, 12:13:25 PM
Got Pfizered about 90 minutes ago, can't really lift my arm, my back aches and I feel a little out of it and I couldn't be happier.

I got the 'derna, and had the same thing with the arm. It felt super heavy for half a day. Then a little malaise and all good.

It wasn't heavy as such (apart from maybe the first six hours when I was still a bit dazed) just any movement 'the wrong way' felt like tearing every muscle in it, nearly back to normal this morning though... unless I poke it.

A day and a half with only one arm working and sleeping on my right side was worth a little avoiding a potentially horrible death.

I did get some further effects (although as forum age goes, I'm on the lower end which seems to impact reaction severity) the Saturday gave me a very bad 2 hour dizzy spell and some minor heart fluttering through Monday and then a 103/72 blood pressure drop on the one week anniversary, which took it out of me for a couple of days, but totally back to normal now and I've just done several days strenuous work.

A friend of my mum's, son, apparently had heart fluttering too and was understandably quite panicked so a potential side effect to be aware of, although I feel I should say, be sure to follow up with your medical practitioner.

Just booked, Friday afternoon my wife & I get #2, 1st was Pfizer this one will be Moderna. With the first the deltoid area was tender if pressed on otherwise no noticeable side effects.
dave

I didn't know the vaccines doses could be mixed like that.

Quote from: EBK on June 22, 2021, 10:14:30 PM
I didn't know the vaccines doses could be mixed like that.

Pretty common here, maybe even the norm.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/immunization/national-advisory-committee-on-immunization-naci/recommendations-use-covid-19-vaccines/rapid-response-interchangeability/summary.html
dave

Quote from: davent on June 22, 2021, 11:44:04 PM

Quote from: EBK on June 22, 2021, 10:14:30 PM
I didn't know the vaccines doses could be mixed like that.

Pretty common here, maybe even the norm.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/immunization/national-advisory-committee-on-immunization-naci/recommendations-use-covid-19-vaccines/rapid-response-interchangeability/summary.html
dave

Today's paper said that because Pfizer is the only one approved for 12 - 17 year olds, at least locally Pfizer shots are only going to that age group.
dave

Had my first jab today, through work (they're getting all employees jabbed who want it.) After the jab itself, we had to sit for observation for a wee while. My arm didn't start hurting until about eight hours later.

Bearing in mind that more than a hundred people work at the freezing works, I only heard of one guy (who had angina, probably a contributing factor) having a reaction -- he had difficulty breathing, and they took him to the hospital. The vaccinator lady (I asked and yes, she was a registered nurse) told me to move my arm around that night to help it work better. I told her that, since I'm on the nightshift at the moment, that won't be a problem!

Different countries have different requirements, both in terms of product, and also in terms of processes, or how things are done. Currently, China requires temperatures to be taken at the gate (one of those point and click plastic gun like things, aimed at the forehead), and they do not currently require workers to be vaccinated. I haven't heard of any special EU or US requirements for covid, though.

Quote from: alanp on July 19, 2021, 03:04:20 PM
Had my first jab today, through work (they're getting all employees jabbed who want it.) After the jab itself, we had to sit for observation for a wee while. My arm didn't start hurting until about eight hours later.

Bearing in mind that more than a hundred people work at the freezing works, I only heard of one guy (who had angina, probably a contributing factor) having a reaction -- he had difficulty breathing, and they took him to the hospital. The vaccinator lady (I asked and yes, she was a registered nurse) told me to move my arm around that night to help it work better. I told her that, since I'm on the nightshift at the moment, that won't be a problem!

Different countries have different requirements, both in terms of product, and also in terms of processes, or how things are done. Currently, China requires temperatures to be taken at the gate (one of those point and click plastic gun like things, aimed at the forehead), and they do not currently require workers to be vaccinated. I haven't heard of any special EU or US requirements for covid, though.

Which vaccine did you get Alan, second appointment booked?

My dentist's staff does the temperature test on patients when they arrive for appointments but you can't enter the office/building until notified. I walked 10 or so minutes to the office, still early, beautiful sunny day sat outside in the sun with a black hat on my head, when i got in and they took my temperature, the alarm goes off everybody stops and looks,  i'm over heating, i'm a marked man. Had to go sit in an isolated corner for maybe five minutes and they did my temperature again, fine, went ahead with the appointment.
dave

Pfizer -- all of NZ is Pfizer, our govt medicine purchasing outfit buys in bulk for price savings (and is also not attached to name brands when it suits them.)

Aug13 for the next one.

Someone in NZ has the Delta variant... naturally, he decided to jump in his car and go for a drive (before he had symptoms, to be fair.) I'm starting to wonder if one of the early symptoms is itchy feet and the desire to go for a wander.

So, we're at Level 4, full lockdown. It wouldn't piss me off so much if *I* got a holiday too, rather than continuing to work at the slaughterhouse while other people stay home and play Xbox.

Much the same here - we hadn't had a case in the city where I am in over 100 days or something, then the delta variety kicked off in Sydney and has spread to here too. 

Got my first Pfizer shot yesterday, feeling a bit wiped out and my arm is not happy, but it's worth it to not get the full symptoms. 

Here, it's spiking and everyone decided it's not a thing anymore. If you ignore it, it doesn't exist, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote from: jimilee on August 17, 2021, 02:04:40 PM
Here, it's spiking and everyone decided it's not a thing anymore. If you ignore it, it doesn't exist, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Now if it were head lice or some other visible creepy crawler it'd be a thing and protocols would be put in place. Can't see it therefore it's a hoax...

It's blowing up here again in Houston.

Lame

Hope it doesn't mess up my Yellowstone vacation.

I have tickets to a concert on Monday, I think I may just skip it.  Seems too risky.  I didn't know Ticketmaster now has a feature where you can resell your seat right through their app, so they get the service charge multiple times

In the US it's been so politicized early on that it's just like a droning noise on the news by now.  Masks, no masks, masks, no masks...  Like Jimi says, it's like nobody gives a crap anymore and sometimes it's hard to blame them.

My wife is a retired nurse (although still doing Covid follow up calls from home) and mentioned that nurses are quitting in droves now.  They're so burned out from the craziness, and so many people are just acting like asshats that a lot of them are deciding that it's not worth the aggravation. 

I've stopped watching or reading the news, or any TV....

I'm feeling muucchhh better now.

I've had my 2 jabs of pfizer.  I've also told the missus to stop watching and listening to the news - it's stressing her out.

Quote from: peAk on August 17, 2021, 10:14:01 PM
It's blowing up here again in Houston.

Lame

I was in downtown yesterday and it was a ghost town. Kind of a weird feeling.

Quote from: danfrank on August 19, 2021, 12:16:34 AM

Quote from: peAk on August 17, 2021, 10:14:01 PM
It's blowing up here again in Houston.

Lame

I was in downtown yesterday and it was a ghost town. Kind of a weird feeling.

I now find it way more uncomfortable being out walking with people all around then i ever felt when we were a ghost town, i really enjoyed the lack of humanity and traffic.
dave

Quote from: alanp on August 17, 2021, 06:38:48 AM
Someone in NZ has the Delta variant... naturally, he decided to jump in his car and go for a drive (before he had symptoms, to be fair.) I'm starting to wonder if one of the early symptoms is itchy feet and the desire to go for a wander.

So, we're at Level 4, full lockdown. It wouldn't piss me off so much if *I* got a holiday too, rather than continuing to work at the slaughterhouse while other people stay home and play Xbox.

If they can still lock us down, even though we're vaccinated, then what is the point of getting the jab of an experimental vaccine? It's basically like nothing will ever change.

Quote from: fig on August 18, 2021, 01:14:32 AM
I've stopped watching or reading the news, or any TV....

I'm feeling muucchhh better now.

Yeah, me too. The business model of the news these days seems to be to generate traffic through click bait. And constantly scaring us, or making us angry seems to be the best click bait.

Quote from: Muadzin on August 19, 2021, 08:14:32 AM

Quote from: alanp on August 17, 2021, 06:38:48 AM
Someone in NZ has the Delta variant... naturally, he decided to jump in his car and go for a drive (before he had symptoms, to be fair.) I'm starting to wonder if one of the early symptoms is itchy feet and the desire to go for a wander.

So, we're at Level 4, full lockdown. It wouldn't piss me off so much if *I* got a holiday too, rather than continuing to work at the slaughterhouse while other people stay home and play Xbox.

If they can still lock us down, even though we're vaccinated, then what is the point of getting the jab of an experimental vaccine? It's basically like nothing will ever change.

I think a lot of people thought the vaccine would provide sterilizing immunity, like the smallpox and measles vaccines do.  It would be wonderful if it did, but unfortunately it does not.  Therefore, there's likely going to be a bit of a balancing act about when to lock down to minimize damage and when to keep things open.  With so many folks not vaccinated, it further complicates the calculation.  Since we're still learning in real time, it's likely not always going to be smooth.

I think the main thing is trying to avoid the full industry shutdowns that we saw in 2020 if at all possible.  The global supply chain is really messed up and it might take 1-2 years to stabilize even if there are no further shutdowns.  There are a lot of partial shutdowns going on in parts of Asia right now as the vaccine supply still isn't where it needs to be globally.  It's going to be a mess for a while, I fear.  The effect of all of this will be more than just financial, so hopefully things even out soon.

Quote from: Muadzin on August 19, 2021, 08:14:32 AM

Quote from: fig on August 18, 2021, 01:14:32 AM
I've stopped watching or reading the news, or any TV....

I'm feeling muucchhh better now.

Yeah, me too. The business model of the news these days seems to be to generate traffic through click bait. And constantly scaring us, or making us angry seems to be the best click bait.

I heard a good term for this kinda stuff -- "panic porn".

The other thing to remember is that journalists are people, too, with their own deeply held beliefs (whether that is Christian values, or completely open borders, or a love of Marx and Engels), so you should read multiple sources on the same topic, and try to pull together what's going on as an aggregate.

Quote from: Muadzin on August 19, 2021, 08:14:32 AM
If they can still lock us down, even though we're vaccinated, then what is the point of getting the jab of an experimental vaccine? It's basically like nothing will ever change.

To be fair Muadzin, I'd say the Netherlands are 90% opened up right now. The only thing I see with much restrictions is outdoor festivals and university. Let's see what the fall brings. I'm fine with getting the vaccine and even getting a booster shot while we figure out how to solve this thing. It's funny how all those scenarios painted at the beginning of the pandemic are coming true, yet people act surprised.

Quote from: pickdropper on August 19, 2021, 11:48:03 AM

Quote from: Muadzin on August 19, 2021, 08:14:32 AM

Quote from: alanp on August 17, 2021, 06:38:48 AM
Someone in NZ has the Delta variant... naturally, he decided to jump in his car and go for a drive (before he had symptoms, to be fair.) I'm starting to wonder if one of the early symptoms is itchy feet and the desire to go for a wander.

So, we're at Level 4, full lockdown. It wouldn't piss me off so much if *I* got a holiday too, rather than continuing to work at the slaughterhouse while other people stay home and play Xbox.

If they can still lock us down, even though we're vaccinated, then what is the point of getting the jab of an experimental vaccine? It's basically like nothing will ever change.

I think a lot of people thought the vaccine would provide sterilizing immunity, like the smallpox and measles vaccines do.  It would be wonderful if it did, but unfortunately it does not.  Therefore, there's likely going to be a bit of a balancing act about when to lock down to minimize damage and when to keep things open.  With so many folks not vaccinated, it further complicates the calculation.  Since we're still learning in real time, it's likely not always going to be smooth.

I think the main thing is trying to avoid the full industry shutdowns that we saw in 2020 if at all possible.  The global supply chain is really messed up and it might take 1-2 years to stabilize even if there are no further shutdowns.  There are a lot of partial shutdowns going on in parts of Asia right now as the vaccine supply still isn't where it needs to be globally.  It's going to be a mess for a while, I fear.  The effect of all of this will be more than just financial, so hopefully things even out soon.

I agree with your overall sentiment, so please don't take this the wrong way... almost no person with a solid understanding of the immune system expected sterilizing immunity any of the CoV2/COVID19 vaccines without high vaccination rates. All vaccines, including those against CoV2, improve immunity thereby resisting infection and reducing symptoms in individuals. The efficacy ranges at the individual level ranges from sterilizing to significantly reduced symptoms (i.e. MASSIVELY decreased risk of hospitalization and death). However, vaccines only reach "sterilizing" at the population level once a large enough proportion of the population has been vaccinated- this is the real concept of herd immunity. CoV2/COVID19 continues to cause problems purely because not enough people chose (when readily available) to be vaccinated and not at all because the vaccine is ineffective.

Actually, your mention of sterilizing effect of the measles vaccine is a great demonstration of what I just said. In 2017, an anti-vaxx sentiment polluted the Somali-American community in Minneapolis. The largest outbreak of measles in 30 years ensued, and ~20% of the 80 new infections were in vaccinated individuals. The same vaccine that provided sterilizing immunity to a population was compromised by a significant number of people that were corrupted by anti-vaccine propaganda.

Well said.

A buddy of mine has fully resisted getting vaccinated because his (mis)understanding was that "you can still get covid and give it to others, so what's the point?". His wife finally threatened to leave him if he didn't. He got vaccinated yesterday.

Sometimes we just need a little nudge...

Quote from: DLW on August 19, 2021, 10:15:17 PM

Quote from: pickdropper on August 19, 2021, 11:48:03 AM

Quote from: Muadzin on August 19, 2021, 08:14:32 AM

Quote from: alanp on August 17, 2021, 06:38:48 AM
Someone in NZ has the Delta variant... naturally, he decided to jump in his car and go for a drive (before he had symptoms, to be fair.) I'm starting to wonder if one of the early symptoms is itchy feet and the desire to go for a wander.

So, we're at Level 4, full lockdown. It wouldn't piss me off so much if *I* got a holiday too, rather than continuing to work at the slaughterhouse while other people stay home and play Xbox.

If they can still lock us down, even though we're vaccinated, then what is the point of getting the jab of an experimental vaccine? It's basically like nothing will ever change.

I think a lot of people thought the vaccine would provide sterilizing immunity, like the smallpox and measles vaccines do.  It would be wonderful if it did, but unfortunately it does not.  Therefore, there's likely going to be a bit of a balancing act about when to lock down to minimize damage and when to keep things open.  With so many folks not vaccinated, it further complicates the calculation.  Since we're still learning in real time, it's likely not always going to be smooth.

I think the main thing is trying to avoid the full industry shutdowns that we saw in 2020 if at all possible.  The global supply chain is really messed up and it might take 1-2 years to stabilize even if there are no further shutdowns.  There are a lot of partial shutdowns going on in parts of Asia right now as the vaccine supply still isn't where it needs to be globally.  It's going to be a mess for a while, I fear.  The effect of all of this will be more than just financial, so hopefully things even out soon.

I agree with your overall sentiment, so please don't take this the wrong way... almost no person with a solid understanding of the immune system expected sterilizing immunity any of the CoV2/COVID19 vaccines without high vaccination rates. All vaccines, including those against CoV2, improve immunity thereby resisting infection and reducing symptoms in individuals. The efficacy ranges at the individual level ranges from sterilizing to significantly reduced symptoms (i.e. MASSIVELY decreased risk of hospitalization and death). However, vaccines only reach "sterilizing" at the population level once a large enough proportion of the population has been vaccinated- this is the real concept of herd immunity. CoV2/COVID19 continues to cause problems purely because not enough people chose (when readily available) to be vaccinated and not at all because the vaccine is ineffective.

Actually, your mention of sterilizing effect of the measles vaccine is a great demonstration of what I just said. In 2017, an anti-vaxx sentiment polluted the Somali-American community in Minneapolis. The largest outbreak of measles in 30 years ensued, and ~20% of the 80 new infections were in vaccinated individuals. The same vaccine that provided sterilizing immunity to a population was compromised by a significant number of people that were corrupted by anti-vaccine propaganda.

Oh, I don't take that the wrong way at all.  My (not very well-worded) post wasn't against the efficacy of the vaccine but more about public expectations and the continued distortion of what the vaccine is actually designed to do.

Muad's comment "If they can still lock us down, even though we're vaccinated, then what is the point of getting the jab of an experimental vaccine? It's basically like nothing will ever change." echos a lot of what I've heard people complain about around here.  "Why should I get the vaccine if there are still breakthrough infections" or if there are continued mask mandates or lockdowns, etc.  The vaccine isn't an immediate fix, but it's a significant help as we all work together to bring order out of chaos.  It's just going to be a process and not a switch that gets flipped.

And yes, your measles example is solid.

On a different note, I was told at work on Wednesday that we had to wear masks. (Wednesday was when the NZ Govt made it mandatory, rather than just a billboard saying "I'm a hypochondriac", considering that my District Health Board area had nine cases... total... and no deaths.)

I was only told today, Friday, that we're supposed to throw them out and get a new one at the start of the day. Thanks for letting me know after the one you gave me on Wednesday was starting to piss me the hell off on Friday.

In my defense, Wednesday was the first time, IN MY ENTIRE LIFE, that I had worn a mask. I don't even do halloween.

I live in a sparsely populated county in East Texas.  The new infection for my county in Texas has just surpassed the high set back in January 2021.  Even though the hospitals are full of children, I still don't see much mask wearing.  When I go out to the grocery store or restaurant , I am often the only masked person.  I have been vaccinated, but I still take precautions (mask, hand washing, social distancing). 

A lot of people in my county don't trust the media and I don't trust them either, but the hospitals are filling up with COVID patients.  That is a fact that people seem to be turning a blind eye to.  The other day on the news, they reported that there are only about a dozen ICU beds available in the entire East Texas area.  I know this is true because my daughter is an ICU nurse that caught COVID back in December while taking care of patients.  Most of her co-workers caught it too.  My daughter's 40 year old husband almost died from it.   My next dooor neighbor died of COVID in early 2020.

It is real.  I have seen what it does and it is nothing to mess around with.  Get vaccinated.


PS, I hope I didn't offend anyone.

Mike

Quote from: mwelch on August 20, 2021, 03:47:52 PM
When I go out to the grocery store or restaurant , I am often the only masked person.  I have been vaccinated, but I still take precautions (mask, hand washing, social distancing). 

Same, but I live in a quite liberal part of Virginia ("substantial transmission" in my city).  It is stunning (to me) how rare the mask use is and how closely folks crowd together.  I have developed an unhealthy distrust of people in general, which is quite depressing. 

Echoing Mike, I also hope I don't offend anyone with my comments.  I'm not looking to fight or insisting that I am always right.

Quote from: EBK on August 20, 2021, 06:25:41 PM

Quote from: mwelch on August 20, 2021, 03:47:52 PM
When I go out to the grocery store or restaurant , I am often the only masked person.  I have been vaccinated, but I still take precautions (mask, hand washing, social distancing). 

Same, but I live in a quite liberal part of Virginia ("substantial transmission" in my city).  It is stunning (to me) how rare the mask use is and how closely folks crowd together.  I have developed an unhealthy distrust of people in general, which is quite depressing. 

Echoing Mike, I also hope I don't offend anyone with my comments.  I'm not looking to fight or insisting that I am always right.

Same here in Chattanooga, I just don't get it. Me and the misses stay home as much as we can and wear our masks when we have to go somewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never mind.

This story popped up all over the place yesterday.

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-08-19/gulf-coasts-beloved-redneck-riviera-now-a-virus-hotspot
dave

I should possibly clarify my mask comment earlier -- I live in New Zealand, and we never had any "wild outbreaks" of covid to really need masks. Social distancing is necessary, though, and has been for the length of the pandemic.

The new mask mandate here is due to the increased infectiousness of the Delta variant (a news report states that it was transferred from one room of people to another... when two doors were opened at the same time for three to five seconds), combined with the fact that the authorities have not been able to find the case linking the community outbreaks of Delta in Wellington and Auckland to the border quarantine case with Delta. A third factor is that a lot of the community cases travelled around their home area... a lot... visiting places like theatres, shopping centers, and university lecture halls, all high traffic, high density areas.

As for the complaining, I think that people are starting to feel the flow-on economic effects of shutting down most things in the industrial sector, and also the supply issues are starting to become more apparent.

Quote from: gordo on August 20, 2021, 12:41:40 AM
Sometimes we just need a little nudge...

Haha...

I originally had a J&J shot back in April and had zero side effects. I got a "booster" Pfizer shot about 6 hours ago and no side effects so far.

My wife was in same situation but got the same pfizer booster last Saturday from the same lot as mine. She did have side effects for almost a whole day... Sore arm, really tired, etc.

Quote from: alanp on August 19, 2021, 03:58:12 PM
I heard a good term for this kinda stuff -- "panic porn".

The other thing to remember is that journalists are people, too, with their own deeply held beliefs (whether that is Christian values, or completely open borders, or a love of Marx and Engels), so you should read multiple sources on the same topic, and try to pull together what's going on as an aggregate.

Word! Or avoid the most partisan news sources altogether. Or news altogether. Life is much better once you quit watching the news.

Quote from: Aentons on August 19, 2021, 11:26:42 PM
A buddy of mine has fully resisted getting vaccinated because his (mis)understanding was that "you can still get covid and give it to others, so what's the point?". His wife finally threatened to leave him if he didn't. He got vaccinated yesterday.

Oh yeah, emotional blackmail. That marriage is in for the long haul. NOT!

Quote from: pickdropper on August 20, 2021, 02:46:03 AM
I agree with your overall sentiment, so please don't take this the wrong way... almost no person with a solid understanding of the immune system expected sterilizing immunity any of the CoV2/COVID19 vaccines without high vaccination rates. All vaccines, including those against CoV2, improve immunity thereby resisting infection and reducing symptoms in individuals. The efficacy ranges at the individual level ranges from sterilizing to significantly reduced symptoms (i.e. MASSIVELY decreased risk of hospitalization and death). However, vaccines only reach "sterilizing" at the population level once a large enough proportion of the population has been vaccinated- this is the real concept of herd immunity. CoV2/COVID19 continues to cause problems purely because not enough people chose (when readily available) to be vaccinated and not at all because the vaccine is ineffective.

Actually, your mention of sterilizing effect of the measles vaccine is a great demonstration of what I just said. In 2017, an anti-vaxx sentiment polluted the Somali-American community in Minneapolis. The largest outbreak of measles in 30 years ensued, and ~20% of the 80 new infections were in vaccinated individuals. The same vaccine that provided sterilizing immunity to a population was compromised by a significant number of people that were corrupted by anti-vaccine propaganda.

Oh, I don't take that the wrong way at all.  My (not very well-worded) post wasn't against the efficacy of the vaccine but more about public expectations and the continued distortion of what the vaccine is actually designed to do.

Muad's comment "If they can still lock us down, even though we're vaccinated, then what is the point of getting the jab of an experimental vaccine? It's basically like nothing will ever change." echos a lot of what I've heard people complain about around here.  "Why should I get the vaccine if there are still breakthrough infections" or if there are continued mask mandates or lockdowns, etc.  The vaccine isn't an immediate fix, but it's a significant help as we all work together to bring order out of chaos.  It's just going to be a process and not a switch that gets flipped.

And yes, your measles example is solid.

They want me to wear masks again at the university where I work. Hell no! Back to working at home it is.

I'm starting to think focusing on a vaccine was the wrong strategy altogether. Because this thing keeps on mutating faster then John Carpenter's The Thing. It's like trying to come up with a vaccine to the common cold. Maybe pouring in all that money on a medicine would have been better? One that mitigates and shortens the effecst. So you can call in at work:
Hey boss, I got corona today.
Okay, you know what to do. Take 2 pills and come back next week.

One thing I do know, Australia and New Zealand are showing us what to expect for the winter, just like they did last winter. Expect a lot more lockdowns to come and more repression and shaming to get you to do what the PtB want you to do. And divide and conquer of course. Have the vaccinated be angry at the non-vaccinated. Instead of the real culprits, the airlines, who keep on flying all these variants all over the world.

Wait, instead of focusing on a vaccine, they should have worked on NyQuil for Covid?  The whole point of the vaccine is to reduce the spread so the mutations stop forming, effectively wiping the thing out.  It could have little flare ups that quickly get stomped out but it becomes just a minor annoyance at worst.

The current vaccines as-is are doing a pretty remarkable job with the variants that have developed.  That may not always be the case, but the more people that get vaccinated helps prevent further mutations from gaining any real traction.

Quote from: Muadzin on August 26, 2021, 12:33:35 PM

Quote from: alanp on August 19, 2021, 03:58:12 PM
I heard a good term for this kinda stuff -- "panic porn".

The other thing to remember is that journalists are people, too, with their own deeply held beliefs (whether that is Christian values, or completely open borders, or a love of Marx and Engels), so you should read multiple sources on the same topic, and try to pull together what's going on as an aggregate.

Word! Or avoid the most partisan news sources altogether. Or news altogether. Life is much better once you quit watching the news.

Quote from: Aentons on August 19, 2021, 11:26:42 PM
A buddy of mine has fully resisted getting vaccinated because his (mis)understanding was that "you can still get covid and give it to others, so what's the point?". His wife finally threatened to leave him if he didn't. He got vaccinated yesterday.

Oh yeah, emotional blackmail. That marriage is in for the long haul. NOT!

Quote from: pickdropper on August 20, 2021, 02:46:03 AM
I agree with your overall sentiment, so please don't take this the wrong way... almost no person with a solid understanding of the immune system expected sterilizing immunity any of the CoV2/COVID19 vaccines without high vaccination rates. All vaccines, including those against CoV2, improve immunity thereby resisting infection and reducing symptoms in individuals. The efficacy ranges at the individual level ranges from sterilizing to significantly reduced symptoms (i.e. MASSIVELY decreased risk of hospitalization and death). However, vaccines only reach "sterilizing" at the population level once a large enough proportion of the population has been vaccinated- this is the real concept of herd immunity. CoV2/COVID19 continues to cause problems purely because not enough people chose (when readily available) to be vaccinated and not at all because the vaccine is ineffective.

Actually, your mention of sterilizing effect of the measles vaccine is a great demonstration of what I just said. In 2017, an anti-vaxx sentiment polluted the Somali-American community in Minneapolis. The largest outbreak of measles in 30 years ensued, and ~20% of the 80 new infections were in vaccinated individuals. The same vaccine that provided sterilizing immunity to a population was compromised by a significant number of people that were corrupted by anti-vaccine propaganda.

Oh, I don't take that the wrong way at all.  My (not very well-worded) post wasn't against the efficacy of the vaccine but more about public expectations and the continued distortion of what the vaccine is actually designed to do.

Muad's comment "If they can still lock us down, even though we're vaccinated, then what is the point of getting the jab of an experimental vaccine? It's basically like nothing will ever change." echos a lot of what I've heard people complain about around here.  "Why should I get the vaccine if there are still breakthrough infections" or if there are continued mask mandates or lockdowns, etc.  The vaccine isn't an immediate fix, but it's a significant help as we all work together to bring order out of chaos.  It's just going to be a process and not a switch that gets flipped.

And yes, your measles example is solid.

They want me to wear masks again at the university where I work. Hell no! Back to working at home it is.

I'm starting to think focusing on a vaccine was the wrong strategy altogether. Because this thing keeps on mutating faster then John Carpenter's The Thing. It's like trying to come up with a vaccine to the common cold. Maybe pouring in all that money on a medicine would have been better? One that mitigates and shortens the effecst. So you can call in at work:
Hey boss, I got corona today.
Okay, you know what to do. Take 2 pills and come back next week.

One thing I do know, Australia and New Zealand are showing us what to expect for the winter, just like they did last winter. Expect a lot more lockdowns to come and more repression and shaming to get you to do what the PtB want you to do. And divide and conquer of course. Have the vaccinated be angry at the non-vaccinated. Instead of the real culprits, the airlines, who keep on flying all these variants all over the world.

You are 5x more likely to be infected and 29x more likely to be hospitalized with COVID19 if you have not been vaccinated.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7034e5.htm

The vaccine is remarkably effective against CoV2 variants, and the only reason COVID19 continues to cause problems is due to people not having access to vaccines or refusing vaccination. Full stop. Your opinion is uninformed and dangerously misguided.

I'd rather this discussion keep to the topic without straying into debate. The vaccine is very safe and currently our best tool for fighting the pandemic. Plenty of other places where other arguments can take place.

I got the vaccine a while ago as did my wife and many, many siblings, aunts, uncles, in-laws, cousins, nephews, and nieces and a shitload of friends with ages between 12 and 80. No one I have talked with who has taken the vaccine has had any side effects other that maybe being sleepy for a day or some sniffles. Of those roughly sixty or seventy friends and family none of them knew anyone who had serious side effects from the vaccine either.

A few people I know had COVID-19, fortunately no one amount them died, but several of them got very sick for a couple weeks.

My old band mate from Ohio did report one positive side effect of the vaccine, being able to practice without mask again. I even talked to some people who had both played and been to shows.

My wife won't get the vaccine

Super frustrating but I have given up. It's a battle that I can't fight anymore.

We have a great relationship and have been married for about 14 years. This is the first big thing that we just can't see eye to eye on.

So far I have held off getting our 13 year old vaccinated because that's a big battle too.

Oh...how I miss life pre pandemic

Yeesh, sorry to hear that peak. My wife's a nurse and it's surprising how many in the medical community won't get it.  It's as polarizing as politics.

My employer wants me to be vaxxed (doesn't require it) and wants me to wear a mask. I'd do both anyway, and as long as the check clears I'm quite happy to oblige.

A positive COVID-19 case has reached my kids' elementary school.  I'm freaking out a bit.

Quote from: EBK on September 02, 2021, 06:56:09 PM
A positive COVID-19 case has reached my kids' elementary school.  I'm freaking out a bit.

Bummer, I'm sure things will be alright though. Just remember the vast majority of kids aren't having any serious problems.

I get emails every other day that somebody tested positive in either of my high-schoolers classes.   Thankfully they are vaxxed and haven't had any issues.  If they were in elementary still and couldn't get vaxxed, I'd be a lot more concerned.

Quote from: matmosphere on September 02, 2021, 08:53:34 PM

Quote from: EBK on September 02, 2021, 06:56:09 PM
A positive COVID-19 case has reached my kids' elementary school.  I'm freaking out a bit.

Bummer, I'm sure things will be alright though. Just remember the vast majority of kids aren't having any serious problems.

They had 29 new cases at my kids elementary school yesterday

Our county is shutting down all schools next week (not even remote classes) due to the number of new cases in students and teachers. Of course, we have no mask mandate either.

Quote from: madbean on September 03, 2021, 12:16:52 AM
Our county is shutting down all schools next week (not even remote classes) due to the number of new cases in students and teachers. Of course, we have no mask mandate either.

I wish ours would. They are off Monday for the HOliday and then Tuesday and Wednesday. The King of TN took away the funding for remote learning. There are mask mandates in schools, which can conveniently be opted out by students, which really makes it into a joke. Again, the King of TN said as long as a vaccine is available, a mask mandate won't be implemented. I'm no fan of too much government, but apparently, we as a people aren't responsible enough to adult responsibly. This is just irritating. I want to get out and go do things with other people, except go to work, that I want to do from home. There are still mask mandate protests happening here, where there is no mask mandate. /rant

Quote from: Aentons on September 02, 2021, 09:32:51 PM
They had 29 new cases at my kids elementary school yesterday

Yikes!  I'm freaking out over a single case.  I can't imagine what I'd do at that sort of news!  My kids are unvaccinated (too young), and one has asthma.  They eat lunch at crowded tables.  That alone made me nervous.  Even though kids seem to do ok with the virus on average, they aren't immune, and I worry about long haul symptoms, which haven't been fully studied. 

what? your phone doesn't ring twice daily with covid+ announcements from your kids' schools? They sent my youngest home for close contact quarantine on the third day of school. A couple nights ago the county school board held the mask mandate meeting and they had some grade school kid at the podium yelling at the board about how he doesn't want to wear a mask. I'm over here wondering what changed over the summer. They had mandatory masks as recently as the first week of June, now it is up for debate and opt-out? Meanwhile the farm stores are sold out of horse de-wormer because people would rather shed their intestinal lining from overdose than mask up and get vaccinated.

Once again, while I understand and share outrage over the politicization of COVID, masking and the vaccine let's not steer into it here. There's just no positive outcome. I'll just keep stating this over and over: the vaccine is safe and effective. Masking and social distancing also reduces transmission and should be used when needed or requested.

Sorry if I am a broken record at this point :)

I'm just going to put this on here and then I will have nothing more to say on the matter.

I am not for or against vaccination. I believe it is a personal choice. Get it. Don't get it. Its up to you. That being said, lets look at what has transpired so far. Regardless of excuses:

1) Shut everything down and social distance with masks to be worn everywhere - Didn't stop it
2) Vaccinations for everyone - Didn't stop it.
3) Now the plan is to go back to Step 1?

This thing is mother nature. You cannot stop mother nature period. Anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.

END RANT (if it is one)

This is precisely the type of thing I wanted to avoid. Locking thread for now.