There's a 20% sale on midi packs through the end of October. I was thinking about maybe picking up another pack to expand my library. I currently have Post Rock Grooves and The Progressive Foundry. I also picked up a couple libraries from GrooveMonkey, but I don't like those as good (seems like the "hundreds" of variations are almost nearly identical).
What I'm looking to do in the near future: stoner metal (medium tempo) and some noise-rock/post-rock stuff.
What are you guys using?
Since I am not a real drummer, I bought them all (over time as they came out of course).
I think they are all great.
I know, this isn't helping.
W.
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I just don't even know, but I dig the program. That's 2 votes for not helpful.
It would be helpful if you'd give a bit more info on what you're trying to accomplish. Are you using it for play-along or practice? Or are you using the loops for recording projects? To me, that makes all the difference. If I want to use it for recording, then the endless-variations-that-are-almost-all-the-same-thing starts to make a lot of sense--they allow me to approximate a real drummer with greater accuracy. But if I'm just trying to jam to it, then it's frustrating as hell to audition and select among such limited choices. (So based on your comments, I guess you want it more for the jam thing?)
Quote from: ahiddentableau on October 23, 2018, 12:20:10 AM
Are you using it for play-along or practice? Or are you using the loops for recording projects? To me, that makes all the difference. If I want to use it for recording, then the endless-variations-that-are-almost-all-the-same-thing starts to make a lot of sense--they allow me to approximate a real drummer with greater accuracy.
Actually, I want to use the loops for recording. The variation thing makes sense now that you say it, but EZdrummer is supposed to have built-in "human-ness" via automated and semi-random changes to timing and velocity. My goal is to lay out the drums somewhat generically to get the foundation guitar down. Then go back and tweak the drum tracks to give more character via different fills and altering some of the loops manually.
I use steven slate drums, similar thing, but they never truly sound natural. It's in the feel of the player
Quote from: culturejam on October 23, 2018, 01:13:04 AM
Actually, I want to use the loops for recording. The variation thing makes sense now that you say it, but EZdrummer is supposed to have built-in "human-ness" via automated and semi-random changes to timing and velocity. My goal is to lay out the drums somewhat generically to get the foundation guitar down. Then go back and tweak the drum tracks to give more character via different fills and altering some of the loops manually.
Yeah, if you're going to do all your edits manually then I guess there's no need for all those variations. But I find the subtle differences useful. Probably because I'm very much not a drummer (I am almost comically inept on the drumkit) I find the variations useful for educational purposes. They often contain fills and particular avenues of play that would never occur to me if I was left to my own devices.
How does the software work for providing/approximating a human feel, anyway? I haven't fooled around with ezdrummer for...oh god, it must be 10 years by now. Back then I didn't think it did much. Have things improved?
For the last several years I hook up an old TR707 to an old yamaha DR-55 and just bang out the basic feel of what I want into my DAW. Then I manually edit the MIDI file for feel and replace the drum samples. It works, but is slow and tedious.
I've been using EZDrummer for a long time but haven't invested in much extra midi banks. Maybe I should. With the sheer volume of samples it's a daunting task to find exactly what you need (it would be the same in every format/program I guess) but the Song Creator with suggestions is very helpful. Hope to see some good suggestions for packs showing up here though.
I use ezdrummer 2 on every single recording, either using the midi provided or triggering it via my electronic kit. I edit the balls off of most of the midi but usually keep the groove but simplify it or cut and paste in different fills for what I do. What I do is primarily rock so I bought the following EZX expansions for the drum sounds and midi.
Americana, it has some great drum sounds and decent grooves.
Big Rock Drums, Awesome drum sounds, I find myself editing the hell out of the midi but the drums sound great
Indie Folk, I like the drum sounds on certain stuff and have never used a note of midi. I got this in a bundle and it was the least interesting to me.
Nashville, drums sound good, the midi is where this thing shines. A ton of variations between sticks, brushes and hands.
Post Rock, the drums are great and the midi is really designed for this genre.
Progressive, the drums are tuned to play well with heavier music. The midi is good but I usually take out half the notes on every fill.
Rock Solid, great sounding drums and midi, I use the fills a lot.
Rock!, I recommend this one for the midi, lacks in the drum sounds area but the midi is great.
Southern Soul, give me this drum pack and my guitar and a hour is gone. One of my favorites, the grooves are super great, they dont need to be edited to death. I feel like the fit into songs right away.
The Classic, I love the midi in here and the drum sounds.
Vintage Rock, easily my most used drum pack, I reach to it first for any big drum sounds. I am pretty sure I used it in my demo for the PedalPCB Tommy demo.
On top of those packs I also have addon midi of Basic rock, basic rock fills, Monster Midi pack, Pop and session drums.
What I have found with all of them is I like the variety of drum sounds so I can fit it to the song and then having the extra midi choices helps flesh out the parts quicker. For instance If I am writing a ballad in 4/4 I'll choose a southern soul kit and will head towards the midi from the nashville ballad column and find what I want. I usually can get away with that for laying down all other tracks. From there I edit it for different accents and fills or changes to vary up the song.
Now for you wanting to do stoner rock I would go Big Rock drums, Rock! and Rock Solid. I think any one of them is totally worth it.
As for human feel, there is a ton of ways to edit with either varying up the power hand or changing the temp or removing kicks. I wish there was a way to give it a few beers to lay back but they haven't added that feature yet.
I hope this helps.
OK, I'm one more person that's not going to be helpful. :)
This topic has piqued my curiosity. I perform in a duo with a friend of mine. We play once a month in a restaurant doing covers - 60s through now. For many songs we record backing tracks. My buddy Al has a nice recording set-up at his house, so we can record various guitar and keyboard parts there. If drums are needed, I program them. I started out using my drum machine, but programming is difficult and there are many limitations. As a long time GuitarPro user I eventually realized that I can write a drum chart in GP7 and get pretty good results, with more variation and realism than I can get from my drum machine. GP has dozens of drum kits, and I can vary the velocity of each hit to ad some "human-ness" to the track (though AFAIK there is now way to vary the timing of the hit relative to the beat like a real drummer). While I'm reasonably happy with the results, I've always thought there must be a better way.
Since EZDrummer is sample based I have to assume that it has a more realistic feel right out of the box. It looks like you can build parts measure by measure from their libraries. However, since we do covers, sometimes it is important to have very specific cuts, kicks, accents, etc. Is it possible to program beat-by-beat? If you find a groove from one / some of their samples, can you edit them? Or change the kit used to create them?
(While I was typing this some new posts came in, confusing me even more) ???
So it has samples AND midi??? Can you edit both or just the midi? Can you match the midi sounds to the drum set in the samples?
Thanks.
@bcalla: you can edit the midi, not the samples. The midi routing it uses is pretty standard. A friend of mine gave me a great guitar practice tip the other day: download a good quality (e.g.) guitar pro tab with drums and copy/paste the midi to your DAW and play it back with EZD. Works. So for your covers, you might have to do a lot less work than you think, someone may have already done it for you.
I started out with EZ Drummer and upgraded to EZ Drummer 2 and use it for all my song writing. Trying to decide on Midi Packs was always a chore until I discovered I could try out the Midi packs in the Search tab, you just have to check off a Show Web Shop MIDI and you have access to everything. Then I just select the library and run thru the MIdI pack and see how many of the grooves in the pack I like, if there is enough I add that this to my list to buy next time there is a sale.
Hope that helps.
AllenM
Quote from: bcalla on October 23, 2018, 01:22:39 PM
GP has dozens of drum kits, and I can vary the velocity of each hit to ad some "human-ness" to the track (though AFAIK there is now way to vary the timing of the hit relative to the beat like a real drummer). While I'm reasonably happy with the results, I've always thought there must be a better way.
Forgive me, CJ, if I'm carrying this conversation too far from your original post, but bcalla's nudging up against something that I've often thought about: is there any program out there that really allows you to deeply edit the feel and timing of drum/midi loops? For years I've wanted a program that would allow me to vary how drum hits are quantized. A slider or knob that allows me to move the kick drum ahead of the beat and maybe one to make the snare slightly late. That kind of thing. To the best of my knowledge, nothing like that has ever been created. But it seems like it should be relatively easy to do. Surely making a knob to shift a midi event slightly forward or backward in time is simplier than writing a new convolution reverb plugin, right? Because I would love to have a program that could do stuff like that.
Am I just ten years behind the times? Is there a midi/drum program out there that does this sort of thing and I'm just hopelessly behind the times?
Quote from: ahiddentableau on October 24, 2018, 04:13:53 AM
Quote from: bcalla on October 23, 2018, 01:22:39 PM
GP has dozens of drum kits, and I can vary the velocity of each hit to ad some "human-ness" to the track (though AFAIK there is now way to vary the timing of the hit relative to the beat like a real drummer). While I'm reasonably happy with the results, I've always thought there must be a better way.
Forgive me, CJ, if I'm carrying this conversation too far from your original post, but bcalla's nudging up against something that I've often thought about: is there any program out there that really allows you to deeply edit the feel and timing of drum/midi loops? For years I've wanted a program that would allow me to vary how drum hits are quantized. A slider or knob that allows me to move the kick drum ahead of the beat and maybe one to make the snare slightly late. That kind of thing. To the best of my knowledge, nothing like that has ever been created. But it seems like it should be relatively easy to do. Surely making a knob to shift a midi event slightly forward or backward in time is simplier than writing a new convolution reverb plugin, right? Because I would love to have a program that could do stuff like that.
Am I just ten years behind the times? Is there a midi/drum program out there that does this sort of thing and I'm just hopelessly behind the times?
I usually choose the groove and do a little editing in the ezdrummer vst and then drag it over to reaper and can further edit it. In reaper you can remove/alter/increase and decrease velocity of every hit.
If I am not mistaken in reaper there is even a humanize function for midi.
I hope this answers your question.
There's a Doom/Core pack which is half sludgy doom, half busier hardcore. In Superior, you can easily make loops less "busy", or export to your DAW and mute things.
First thing I would do is try the stuff you already have at half tempo and select some roomy sounds. What libraries do you have? You may be able to stack them to make huge sounding custom kits.
Quote from: jjjimi84 on October 24, 2018, 04:52:59 AM
I usually choose the groove and do a little editing in the ezdrummer vst and then drag it over to reaper and can further edit it. In reaper you can remove/alter/increase and decrease velocity of every hit.
If I am not mistaken in reaper there is even a humanize function for midi.
I hope this answers your question.
Actually, it was pretty helpful. Thanks. Painstaking manual movement of individual midi events is how I have always done it, too. And it works. It's just really horrible to do. I took a look at the humanize function in Reaper and at first I thought it was just the same old thing, but it has that last slider lets you bias the timing randomization towards early or late hits. I've never seen that before, and it's getting close to what I was talking about. I'm still using an old DAW and it doesn't have that feature.
The problem is that you can't control that bias for each hit (or at least if you can I didn't see it in the tutorial I used). That's what I really want. And there are no preset patterns that approximate basic types of drum grooves. And it seems to me that there should be--a lot of styles have established patterns of early/late bias for particular parts. So it's close but no cigar.
Wow, some great stuff posted here. Thanks! I got tied up with work/family stuff and wasn't checking in here as much.
As an updated, I also bought the Doom Metal pack from It Might Get Loud: https://www.itmightgetloud.org/product/doom-metal-essentials-midi-pack/
It's a nice selection of grooves that just might do the trick.
(one thing to note by the way is that Toontrack has a sale basically...permanently. They should just reduce their prices :P )
Kind of Off-Topic:
what about old school mic'ing up the snare with a SM57 and layering on top?
I can't get enough of the way we did it back in the days of magnetic tape.
I like doing this:
https://ask.audio/articles/superior-drummer-3-regroover-awesome
Quote from: peAk on October 30, 2018, 01:22:30 PM
I like doing this:
https://ask.audio/articles/superior-drummer-3-regroover-awesome
That's cool!
Quote from: peAk on October 30, 2018, 01:22:30 PM
I like doing this:
https://ask.audio/articles/superior-drummer-3-regroover-awesome
extreme - melly kool!
Quote from: peAk on October 30, 2018, 01:22:30 PM
I like doing this:
https://ask.audio/articles/superior-drummer-3-regroover-awesome
That's just fantastic stuff! It's got to be one of the most helpful things I've seen in years. Thanks Peak!
So now, in November, there's a 35% off sale. Permanent sales are a real quirkie thing I have to say. If you bought something in October...you'd feel ripped off right now, right? (though I'm really tempted to bite this time).