Top mount vs Side mount jacks and power

[Aentons]

I know this subject has been done to death and top mount jacks with top mount power (TPTJ) has basically won. Also, since there are some great folks here, some who actually run a pedal business and deal with customers who make requests of one way vs the other, I think it is a good place to discuss a couple of points that I haven't seen mentioned much anywhere else.

There are two major types of side mount jack configurations, Boss/Ibanez style (TPSJ) with power on top and jacks on the side, MXR style (SPSJ) with power on the side and jacks on the side.

1) Aren't the TPSJ pedals the real space wasting culprit? SPSJ seems just as space efficient as TPTJ. It's just that SPSJ gives you more vertical rows, and TPTJ gives you more horizontal columns. Full disclosure, I like the SPSJ type pedals since they give me an extra row on my pedal train pro, and they are spaced just far enough apart so I don't get accidental clicks on a neighbor, which brings me to my next point...

2) Who are all the people with these super skinny feet/shoes that prefer TPTJ pedals crammed up right next to each other? Can you actually step on a switch without accidentally enagaging another next to it, especially now that soft switching is prevalent? The only way I can manage to do it is
barefoot and use my big toe or tilt my foot at an extreme angle. I have an BYOC OD2 and an EQD Palisades as my only TPTJ pedal examples and they both have multiple foot switches, so if I were to put another TPTJ pedal on either side, the switches would be extremely close. Ive been looking at a couple of the Chase Bliss pedals thinking that it would be close to unusable next to my OD2.

Just saying... I'm honestly curious how others justify TPTJ with these things in mind or if it's even ever an issue for most.

[aion]

TPSJ is the least efficient (well, actually I have seen side power-top jack before so I guess it does get worse than that) - but it's a historical convention. The DC daisy chains all go along the top while the signal patch cables all go in between. It looks neat and orderly and, depending on what kind of commercial pedals you grew up using, it may look the most "right".

SPSJ is only efficient if you're lacking in vertical space. You need to have enough vertical space to be able to switch the pedals on an upper row without kicking the knobs of the row beneath it. Plus, statistically most pedals are top power (whether top or side jack), so you're not likely to be in a spot where you can actually save vertical space - you need to have other pedals that also have the same configuration for it to be of any use.

Chase Bliss and Matthews Effects pedals go a little overboard, I agree - I would never cram two footswitches onto a 125B, it's just messy and hard to use. But unless you have clown shoes, you shouldn't have any trouble hitting the switches of top-jack 125B's that are edge-to-edge in a row, if each of them only has one switch.

If I need to fit two footswitches, the enclosure is automatically bumped up to a 1590BB just purely for usability's sake, regardless of the size of the circuit.

[sonnyboy27]

I agree with aion about the space issue for SPSJ, you really need some space between the knobs on one row of pedals and the switches on another row (or the back row needs a riser). I personally like my stuff to be TPTJ because it lets me run power and cables really easily. Plus I don't need as much board space. I built a massive pedalboard a few years ago to account for all my side mounted pedals, then I started making my stuff in a TPTJ configuration and I don't need half the space on that board anymore. So that means I can use a smaller board that's easier to carry.

I definitely agree that throwing 2 footswitches on a top mounted 125B is really close and easy to mess up. I can only handle single footswitch setups for a pedal of that size. I'm building a tap delay that may go into a 1590B so that I have a bit more space. But it will still be top mounted.

[gordo]

I'm likely to be in the minority here but I don't particularly care where the jacks are.  I'll manage to get a cable to it.  If you need a certain amount of "landing space" to hit a switch (I do) then it doesn't matter how close you can get the pedals together, they need a certain amount of space.  It's the old analogy of "even though you can fit an entire egg mcmuffin in your mouth - it's not the best way to eat it."

I generally have a bunch of wasted space on my live board because there's times when I need to hit a stomp and not have the luxury of my full attention to foot accuracy.

[HamSandwich]

I like having side jacks and left side power, with the LED to the left of foot switch. Makes for easy wiring. I was also enamored with Skreddy's pedals when I first started, and he does (or did, haven't looked in a while) side jacks, side power. No reason besides that haha

[Aleph Null]

TPTJ all day every day!

In the old days when it was assumed that you wouldn't be using more that two or three effects, probably just set on the floor, the Boss arrangement makes sense. If I'm building something that I plan to use alone (maybe an acoustic preamp?), I'll use SPSJ for ease of cable flow on stage.

Anything that I intend to put on a pedal board gets TPTJ because that layout is more space efficient. A 125B with TPTJ is still more space efficient than a 1590A—even when using pancake jacks. It's also more stable, as there is more surface area contact for Velcro.

I don't mind double foot switches on a 125B, but you do have to be careful choosing neighbors for that kind of pedal. I have crammed two traditionally 1590A circuits into a 125B before for maximum space saving.

[Rockhorst]

I hate this topic, brings out all the TPTJ zealots I'm very happy with TPSJ. It just works (for me) and I find it easy to route. Power next to the jacks always has me forcing cables in places they don't really want to go. Also less easy to switch stuff around on the board. I once built a collection of pedals with top jack because I thought it would be great, but I was disappointed. Esp with standard size patch cables, it just doesn't work more effciently. I found myself putting the pedals further apart, basically to the spacing they would've been with side mounts.

With pcb design: I design with TPSJ in mind, but that shouldn't stop anyone from building it with top mounted jacks.

So, for me: top mounted power jack, side mounted signal jacks.

[Muadzin]

I'm one of those TPTJ zealots and I friggin' loath anything with sidemounts. They're insane pedal board space wasters, and there is not a single space redeeming feature about either SPSJ or TPSJ. They have caused me nothing but grief trying to fit them onto my pedal boards. Even worse for my blood pressure was trying to fit a pcb designed for boardmounted pots and TPSJ for 1590B enclosures into a 125B. Those were always fun times trying to fit a pcb into a spot where it never was meant to fit with jacks underneath.

When I first started out building it was with BYOC pedal kits. Back then those were SPSJ. Later I started sourcing my own stuff with Tonepad pcb's and I stuck with SPSJ, because that was what I was used too. But I also did a few GGG kits, and GGG was one of the first to do topmounts, and I immediately took a liking to that. It was like I was blind for all my life and suddenly I discovered that I could see, by merely taking off the blindfold I had put on myself. Because that was what we all did. It is said that all progress gets resisted by those who don't want to change. Either because they cannot, because they fear the change will negatively impact them, or because they felt there was nothing wrong with the old situation. Thing with topmounts is, if you want to stack pedals as close together as possible, you can do it. If however you prefer a gaping grand canyon between your pedals cause you're bigfoot, guess what, you can still do that. What's stopping you? Whereas with sidemounts you can never stack them as close together as possible as you want because of those damn jacks. Even with pancake jacks. Which I loath. Another reason to totally purge anything with sidemounts.

Now that my topmount OCD has been allowed to vent, as for what mutants we are with such tiny feet? I wear size EU 41/42, or a US 10. And I always wear Converse sneakers. I used to wear army surplus boots, but with those I found it harder to tap closely stacked together pedals, so I got into the habit of exchanging them for Converse for gigs and rehearsals, and even kept an old pair in the back of an open backed Fender amp just in case I forgot to change shoes. And now I only wear them. With Converse I can easily hit the right switch, even when I have a 125B with two switches. So my advice would be to select your shoes carefully before playing. Find something narrow with a pointy tip. But still something narrow with a pointy tip that allows you some control. I got a pair of cowboy boots, that are in theory also narrow and pointy, but I can't tap dance pedals with them even if my life depended on it.

[ahiddentableau]

Now that my topmount OCD has been allowed to vent, as for what mutants we are with such tiny feet? I wear size EU 41/42, or a US 10. And I always wear Converse sneakers. I used to wear army surplus boots, but with those I found it harder to tap closely stacked together pedals, so I got into the habit of exchanging them for Converse for gigs and rehearsals, and even kept an old pair in the back of an open backed Fender amp just in case I forgot to change shoes. And now I only wear them. With Converse I can easily hit the right switch, even when I have a 125B with two switches. So my advice would be to select your shoes carefully before playing. Find something narrow with a pointy tip. But still something narrow with a pointy tip that allows you some control. I got a pair of cowboy boots, that are in theory also narrow and pointy, but I can't tap dance pedals with them even if my life depended on it.

LOL!  I wasn't going to join the parade, but when I read the first post I just knew it was a matter of time before someone turned this into a referendum on dick size.  Thank you, internet, for helping us all in our relentless race to the bottom of the barrel.

[alanp]

"Winklepickers" are the sort of shoe you're after for topmount jacks, crammed together.

[Willybomb]

I have an BYOC OD2 and an EQD Palisades as my only TPTJ pedal examples and they both have multiple foot switches, so if I were to put another TPTJ pedal on either side, the switches would be extremely close

Well... no one says you have to put them touching each other.

While I'm one of those guys who likes to cram stuff into a 125b, I don't understand why people bother with 1590a.  I mean, you try and stick velco on the bottom and all of a sudden they have no stability at all.  All things considered though, my jacks and power locations are determined by what's where in the box.  Side mount power down by the footswitch means it's using internal space nothing else is near.

[Aleph Null]

All things considered though, my jacks and power locations are determined by what's where in the box.  Side mount power down by the footswitch means it's using internal space nothing else is near.

I get the impression this is the approach most builders take. My thinking is: I'm only going to cram the guts in a box once, but I'm going to cram the box onto a pedal board multiple times; I prefer to suffer once while building instead of suffering every time I rearrange my board.

[Muadzin]

Now that my topmount OCD has been allowed to vent, as for what mutants we are with such tiny feet? I wear size EU 41/42, or a US 10. And I always wear Converse sneakers. I used to wear army surplus boots, but with those I found it harder to tap closely stacked together pedals, so I got into the habit of exchanging them for Converse for gigs and rehearsals, and even kept an old pair in the back of an open backed Fender amp just in case I forgot to change shoes. And now I only wear them. With Converse I can easily hit the right switch, even when I have a 125B with two switches. So my advice would be to select your shoes carefully before playing. Find something narrow with a pointy tip. But still something narrow with a pointy tip that allows you some control. I got a pair of cowboy boots, that are in theory also narrow and pointy, but I can't tap dance pedals with them even if my life depended on it.

LOL!  I wasn't going to join the parade, but when I read the first post I just knew it was a matter of time before someone turned this into a referendum on dick size.  Thank you, internet, for helping us all in our relentless race to the bottom of the barrel.

Maybe I'm missing something, in which case my apologies, but in what way is my advice on selecting the right shoes a referendum on dick size?

[alanp]

I'm quietly trying to work that out myself :-?

[reddesert]

This band has no problems:


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