I did an A/B test with my klon and was wondering what mods i could do to make it closer to the real thing.
The sunking has way more bass and about half the gain of my klon. Maybe I should post this in the mod forum?
i'd be interested to know the outcome of this since I was planning on building one.
Can you tell us a little more about your build? What types of components, including any value substitutions...and what kind of diodes you used for clipping?
I second that request! ^^^^^^
I just built a sunking and it has so much gain I CANNOT crank it and be in the same garage with my teeny practice amp. It is the only pedal I have built in recent memory that has more available gain than I can use. ;)
Quote from: madbean on November 30, 2010, 04:27:54 PM
Can you tell us a little more about your build? What types of components, including any value substitutions...and what kind of diodes you used for clipping?
i used no value substitutions. All Nichicon electrolytics, all metal film box cap types for the rest like avx, wima, panasonic.. The diodes are BAT41 as per madbeans taste.
has anyone actually a/bed the sunking and a real klon? i looked at layouts all over the internet and they are all similar to the sunking, i find it hard to believe i would be the first to do the comparison.
I've got a video of one of my sunkings up here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ-yFriGs7o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ-yFriGs7o)
Would you say yours sounds like that?
Here's a popular Klon Demo for comparison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BmuGMK_jdE&feature=channel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BmuGMK_jdE&feature=channel)
I use a different guitar and amp, and recording process, but in my mind they don't seem too dissimilar.
Jacob
I have gotten a varied number of opinions on comparisons between the Sunking and different versions of the Klon. Some report minor differences and at least a couple have said it was dead on. There are, of course, differences in terms of being able to attain the exact sounds, namely in the diodes and the special dual-ganged gain pot used in the stock unit. But, I've never heard that anyone thought there was too much bass. The gain thing puzzles me a little, too, based on my own experience.
If you've got the Klon handy, I'd be interested to know what resistance you measure on the two outside lugs of the two ganged pots, and how they compare to your DIY build.
Certainly, your DIY build could be tailored to reduce some bass, if that's what you are after. If you feel there is too much bass on the clean settings, try reducing C5 to 330n or even 220n. On the dirt side, you could reduce C7 to 68n or 47n.
To get more distortion, I would try using 1n34a diodes, which will have a slightly smaller forward voltage. You could also try a 250kB dual gang pot for the gain.
I think these mods might bring it closer to what you are hearing with your actual unit. Also, for best comparison, I would test them independently (if you already haven't). If they are arranged in series and you are toggling between them, it's possible the bypass (buffered) mode could be altering the tone in small ways as opposed to being plugged straight into the amp.
I changed the diodes to 1n34a and finally got around to getting the gain pots metered for both units. Ready for this?
1.5k on the top
33 on the bottom
checked it 4 times to make sure i wasn't crazy.
so why do they sound so different?
you cannot accurately measure resistance if the pots are connected. that's true for any component.
Quote from: stecykmi on December 27, 2010, 04:03:12 AM
you cannot accurately measure resistance if the pots are connected. that's true for any component.
I understand that but the readings for both pots came out the same, as in they should have somewhere around the same gain settings, but they do not.
Interesting thread. I've built a Klon Klone from scratch using the Vero layout by Blanik (using the latest component values from FSB.org) as well as one of the BYOT kits. Alas, no real Klon to compare them to, unfortunately. Both builds sounded very similar . . . LOTS of volume boost on tap, big midrange boost, low to medium OD, wide tone control range.
My buddy built a BYOT kit and a Sunking (V2 with the revised wiring that moved R26, R27 and R28 onto the DPDT) and the SK did sound different than the others. AFAIK, he used the parts and values listed in the build document. The SK had less volume boost available than other builds but actually had more available overdrive, albeit a bit looser and fuzzier sounding than the others (although not bad or unpleasant). Also, something wasn't right with the tone control on the SK as the pedal was very bright sounding with the tone set to anything over 9:00 on the dial.
We noticed the Sunking called for 1N270 diodes in the D4 and D5 position while the other builds used 1N34As . . . . we haven't really experimented with changing those out to see if it makes a difference because I don't think either of us is really Klon material, LOL.
I've really tried to like these pedals but . . . uh . . . I don't know, they all sounded kind of congested and a bit nasally in the mids for me. I'm just a old BF Fender amp guy, I suppose --- love that scooped-mid, edge of breakup sound. Maybe I'd like a real Klon better? Just makes me wonder how different a real Klon sounds than the pedals we've built --- FWIW, my builds sounded VERY similar to the demos I've heard on YouTube, though. Again, maybe just not a Klon guy . . .
Quote from: Fastocker on December 27, 2010, 06:24:26 PM
Again, maybe just not a Klon guy . . .
Doesn't make you a bad guy. ;D
Peace. J.J.B.
I made a Sunking for a guy with a gold horsey Klon and his impressions are that the real Klon has a lot more mids. Possibly even a mid boost. The sunking is flat or possibly a little scooped in comparison. He reckons the bottom and top is all Klon though. The Sunking is much cleaner. He's going to do some high res back-to-back samples for me so I can compare. Just to show that everyone has different perceptions of things, his friend reckons they sound nothing alike at all at any setting...
His and my Sunking's are built as per the PDF using 1n34a diodes. I'm going to be building another one soon and will socket that one up for some experimentation. I've got some 1n60s to try and will get some BAT41s. Personally I like how mine sounds as it is but I am curious as to how close we can get the Sunking to the real Klon. Interestingly he says that essentially what it's missing is the mids of the Darkside that I made him (that was running 1n60s).
I just finished my Sunking build and I tried 1n34a, BAT41 & 1n270. The 1n34a were purchased from Smallbear and were NOS GE's and not labeled as 1n34a but when I emailed about them they said they were 1n34a's. I guess the website says they are a "work-alike." Anywho... I thought the 1n34a's sounded the worst of the three, not as clear and kind of muffled. The BAT41's sounded compressed but really good. My favorite was the 1n270 because they didn't sound compressed(as much) and were still very natural sounding.
Just wanted to add a bit on the diodes. I tried the small bear NOS Ge (they say are 1n34as) and 'real' 1n34as. They sounded very different. The 'work alike' diodes were way too harsh. The 'real' 1n34as were much like 1n270s but just a bit more compressed. I left the 'real' 1n34as in for my next gig.
Quote from: DougCFL on April 05, 2011, 03:41:57 PM
Just wanted to add a bit on the diodes. I tried the small bear NOS Ge (they say are 1n34as) and 'real' 1n34as. They sounded very different. The 'work alike' diodes were way too harsh. The 'real' 1n34as were much like 1n270s but just a bit more compressed. I left the 'real' 1n34as in for my next gig.
Good to know. I'm using BAT41's in mine still, but I noticed in another build I used the Small Bear 1n34a's, and I wasn't as happy with them as the ones I bought from Mouser. Glad to know I wasn't the only one.
I just recieved my parts order from futurelec and the 1n34a's I ordered are marked different too. They aren't the clear glass w/ green strip, they are orange w/ black stripe and say S12 around them. Must be sometype of workalike. Is this similiar to what you recieved?
Quote from: bigmufffuzzwizz on April 11, 2011, 10:26:36 PM
I just recieved my parts order from futurelec and the 1n34a's I ordered are marked different too. They aren't the clear glass w/ green strip, they are orange w/ black stripe and say S12 around them. Must be sometype of workalike. Is this similiar to what you recieved?
Interested in this too. I just ordered a bunch of 1n34a's and 1n60's off of ebay and was wondering what the difference in the different types of packaging is all about.
On another note, I sold a sunking to a guy who owned a real klon at a local LA studio and he said it sounded almost dead on, he said the sunking was just a tad brighter but very, very close. Not sure what version he was playing.
Here are the 1n34a "work-a-likes" from Smallbear.
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I got the 1n34's from futurlec as well. They don't look like normal 1n34's but I didn't care because they sound pretty good in the sunking. I prefer them and the bat41's. The futurlec 1n34's are a little more "open" sounding and the bat41's more compressed. Those are the two I'm going to use with a toggle in my current sunking build.
Quote from: gtr2 on April 12, 2011, 11:28:12 AM
I got the 1n34's from futurlec as well. They don't look like normal 1n34's but I didn't care because they sound pretty good in the sunking. I prefer them and the bat41's. The futurlec 1n34's are a little more "open" sounding and the bat41's more compressed. Those are the two I'm going to use with a toggle in my current sunking build.
cool you just answered my question. Those ones in the picture above from smallbear look sorta like real 1n34a's. i ordered a whole bunch of them so i'm glad to hear they at least sound good. :)
I got the same ones from futurlec. They are NOT 1n34a, here is a thread at BYOC talking about it http://www.buildyourownclone.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=29809 (http://www.buildyourownclone.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=29809)
They are shottky diodes, with about .31 forward voltage.
That being said, if you like them then great go with it. I now have 100 of them so I hope I like them too...
Just for the record...I did NOT like the work-a-likes that I posted the picture of above. They sounded muffled and just not very clear compared to the 1n270 or BAT41's.
I got about 50 real 1n34a's off the ebay. Works for me, as I like them very much in the Sunkings I've built. I liked it better than the BAT41's I have, but the 1n60 and the 1n270's I have sound great too. I think Germs work very well for this circuit - actually, most of them for me personally. I think I just like softer clipping personally.
Jacob
Care to post a link to your fleabay source for the rest of us?
Quote from: masterlk on April 13, 2011, 03:37:05 AM
Care to post a link to your fleabay source for the rest of us?
+1 :)
Just starting to populate my sunking pcb. Is the 1N4742 an equivalent of something like a 1N4001?
The 1N4742 is a 12 volt Zener diode. The 1n4001 is a rectifier diode. Different animal. Steve.
I put together this video when I built my Sunking II and tested out a few diodes. I didn't do the clipping option just one set of diodes. Spoiler: I liked the 1N270 and 1N34A the best. Going to go with the 1N270.
3mm LED (~1.5 Vf)
1N4148 Si (.559 Vf)
1N34A Ge (.265 Vf)
1N5818 Shockley (http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=509) (.131 Vf)
AN306 Ge (http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=1540) (.193 Vf)
1N270 Ge (http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=323) (.220 Vf)
Japanese White Ge (http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=1542) (.213 Vf)