Arrow Electronics is bonkers in the best possible way. They not only fill ridiculously small orders, they ship it for free in the US and they do it in Steve Jobs approved style.
Open cardboard box to find shiny ESD bag. Open ESD bag to find sweet looking fancy cardboard box. What could be inside? An iPod? A Nest thermostat? Nope. a DIP socket. Some caps. Decadent.
How to feel about this? On the one hand I feel like I should be sharing about this here so that other people patronize them and take advantage of the amazing service and selection. You know, drive business their way. On the other hand, I'm afraid they will get ticked off and the golden era will end. When I was in high school on a band trip I remember we were all at this bowling alley and someone figured out the change machine was broken. You put in a buck and got 5 quarters out. Some of my friends made some quick bucks. Then there was a crowd. Then it was all over. This feels like that.
The achilles heel of Arrow is their crap search engine. The workaround is to find the part you want on Mouser, grab the manufacturer (not Mouser) part number, paste it into the search box on Arrow. I've been able to locate a surprising number of very specific parts this way. I'm working on populating boards for a JMK looper. I just used Jacob's BOM to grab part numbers from Mouser and Bob's your uncle. Lots of shiny bags and fancy boxes.
These boxes are a seriously smart way to store ICs. I'm going to save a few for that.
I've got a bunch of those boxes for storing ICs. Like you, I copy/paste part numbers from Mouser whenever possible. The search engine is just terrible. They sent me a survey a while back asking me if I ever placed large orders or just used them for small order/hobbyist projects. I suspect you are right that the party will end at some point. I definitely don't like all the wasted packaging but I reuse the majority of it to ship or store things. I ordered three transformers for an amp build and I joked that a refrigerator sized box would show up on my door step. While it wasn't quite that big, my wife though I purchased an amp cabinet. The box was that big! Haha.
Oh, the packaging is well and truely over the top. The missus sees the mail come and gives me a stern look, but I just have to say "it's just, like, $5 of components from that company" and she walks off, as I've shown her what's actually IN those 5 boxes...
Insane and in my opinion not good.
I think the packaging industry is just plain nuts. The supermarkets are an avalanche of plastic packaging.
How many of those boxes with the plastic foam that will be much longer around than you and me are they sending out every day?
You can only store so many back home for re use.
Worldwide only 7 to 8 % of plastic gets really recycled. The rest goes into landfill or the environment. And every piece of plastic ever produced is apparently still around, maybe broken down into smaller particles, but still plastic around.
Sorry for the rant.
My guess is the only way their shipping works is contracting with shipping companies to use "unused space" on their trucks for cheap.
Because, seriously, Its Amazing, but I have no idea HOW it can turn a profit.
Quote from: cooder on February 12, 2019, 04:12:01 AM
Insane and in my opinion not good.
I think the packaging industry is just plain nuts. The supermarkets are an avalanche of plastic packaging.
How many of those boxes with the plastic foam that will be much longer around than you and me are they sending out every day?
You can only store so many back home for re use.
Worldwide only 7 to 8 % of plastic gets really recycled. The rest goes into landfill or the environment. And every piece of plastic ever produced is apparently still around, maybe broken down into smaller particles, but still plastic around.
Sorry for the rant.
This. Arrow's free shipping policy as well as their ridiculous over-packing is great for consumers, terrible for their own bottom line and, ultimately, the environment.
I'd actually like them to change their policies because I think it will increase the chances of them being able to sustain a functional free shipping policy in the long-term.
Free overnight saver shipping from the Netherlands to the US in a 8x6x5 box for $7 worth of opamps is beyond stupid, it's absurd.
Quote from: somnif on February 12, 2019, 04:24:31 AM
My guess is the only way their shipping works is contracting with shipping companies to use "unused space" on their trucks for cheap.
Because, seriously, Its Amazing, but I have no idea HOW it can turn a profit.
But that still wouldn't explain why I get four boxes of parts that could easily fit in one.
Edit: unless they are coming from different distribution centers. AFAIK, that isn't usually what's going on.
Quote from: pickdropper on February 12, 2019, 04:57:47 AM
This. Arrow's free shipping policy as well as their ridiculous over-packing is great for consumers, terrible for their own bottom line and, ultimately, the environment.
I'd actually like them to change their policies because I think it will increase the chances of them being able to sustain a functional free shipping policy in the long-term.
Free overnight saver shipping from the Netherlands to the US in a 8x6x5 box for $7 worth of opamps is beyond stupid, it's absurd.
I recently ordered first time from element 14 (formerly Farnell) and received the few bits in 4 seperate courier packages delivered over the course of seven days to my door. Lots of plastic static bags and bubble wrap for a good handful of parts. Those things came from different warehouses each shipped individually, 4 seperate courier trips to my doorstep. Stupidity wrapped in plastic.
Next time I ordered I made sure I pressed the 'consolidate shipment' box so that everything came in one parcel. Meant that I had to wait a little longer but it all came in one.
I have a mental image of the warehouse guy at Arrow being pissed at the office guy, now, and being very passive-aggressive about it.
My order arrived today, two boxes for some 1054, 7600, 1044, and 2 mosfet things. Came from Reno, NV. Still waiting on some stuff from the Netherlands.
I have the same exact dilemma that Lee has. Is it wrong of me to order $5 worth of parts I need for a build? Am I taking advantage of a company? I can't get myself to throw away any of their packaging. Will the party soon end? I think it must.
Steve.
Quote from: TGP39 on February 12, 2019, 11:57:14 AM
I have the same exact dilemma that Lee has. Is it wrong of me to order $5 worth of parts I need for a build? Am I taking advantage of a company? I can't get myself to throw away any of their packaging. Will the party soon end? I think it must.
Steve.
I'm curious when the party will end as well.
Arrow seems to be trying hard to go after the hobbyist market and pull some of that market share from Mouser and Digikey. This year at CES they were even handing out free Arduino boards to folks that came to the booth (I still haven't done anything with mine).
Between free shipping and fairly regular discounts, they are definitely making a push. I can't imagine that lasting forever, but we'll see.
Not to ape on this thread but does anyone have a saved ARROW or MOUSER parts list? Like a cheat sheet for placing orders with part numbers and descriptions?
This appears to be a case of "inability to change established process".
It's an epidemic affecting all parts of the world in all industries because everything is so automated that it's actually way more expensive and difficult to change something than just leave it as it is.
If they were to suddenly add some new box sizes....disaster...complete and utter chaos. Employee's would be glitching out, unable to figure out what parts fit in what boxes. Orders would get messed up. Then the countless hours of board meetings discussing when the next board meeting is to discuss when they will actually discuss discussing the box change issue.
It's not that a problem isn't recognized, or that nobody wants to fix it...it's that they simply are unable. The machine is running and nobody knows how to turn it off. Plus, that department that handles box ordering was "restructured" 5 years ago and nobody quite knows who's responsibility it is to implement change.
Fill out this form and place directly in toilet.
Quote from: lars on February 12, 2019, 04:27:34 PM
This appears to be a case of "inability to change established process".
It's an epidemic affecting all parts of the world in all industries because everything is so automated that it's actually way more expensive and difficult to change something than just leave it as it is.
If they were to suddenly add some new box sizes....disaster...complete and utter chaos. Employee's would be glitching out, unable to figure out what parts fit in what boxes. Orders would get messed up. Then the countless hours of board meetings discussing when the next board meeting is to discuss when they will actually discuss discussing the box change issue.
It's not that a problem isn't recognized, or that nobody wants to fix it...it's that they simply are unable. The machine is running and nobody knows how to turn it off. Plus, that department that handles box ordering was "restructured" 5 years ago and nobody quite knows who's responsibility it is to implement change.
Fill out this form and place directly in toilet.
That's possible, but I was amazed at how little automation went on in Mouser's pick and pack department. It may have changed in the past few years, but it relied heavily on people back then.
Based on the degree of variability in the packaging at Arrow, I suspect they have a significant human element at play there as well. It doesn't make change easier, but ultimately businesses need to find ways to streamline their efficiency or the bottom line will suffer.
I try to check my order to assure that its all shipping the same time/location (trying to cut down on the number of boxes) but I've never got less than two boxes. They sent me a survey and I had it all filled it out suggesting they offer a consolidated shipping option (I'd even be willing to wait more than 24h!), but I didn't send it for Lee's reasoning. I don't think they'll be able to keep this up for much longer, $20 in parts sent in 4 FedEx overnight packages! Maybe the CEO is an ex-silicon valley tech guy. If not it's a weird business model.
just fyi for other european customers: while they have european websites they ship from the US (I was under the impression it was in the UK too). Using FedEX as it was free and faster than DHL, I got seriously hit by import taxes. They (FedEX) charge a flat-rate just for up-fronting the actual import tax. I only needed a few SMD components and put some leaded solder in there too, overall prize around 20€, got the same amount in taxes on top and it was a pain to get delivered. They don't have any partner shops to pick up and without a car this was near impossible. I rerouted it to my parents 600 km away as they didnt want to keep it in storage for 2 weeks. I guess this is more about fedex than arrow, but I hate the way they package. Even the solder was in a ESD bag. also came in a separate box (sent from the same storage facility the same day) just way too much waste...
First day orientation for a new packaging/shipping employee at Arrow:
Now, remember, we pack many different kinds of items here for shipping to our customers.
If a plush toy comes down the conveyor belt, you can simply throw it in the box and tape it up.
If a non-perishable food item comes down the conveyor belt, it goes into a plastic bag before it goes into the box. Household cleaners are handled similarly, but double bag those and keep them separate from any food.
You might occasionally see some small electronics parts come down the conveyor belt. Some of those are extremely sensitive to static, some of them are very fragile, and some of them are potentially dangerous. You can look up the proper handling of each item in this large book, but the conveyor belt will keep moving while you do. When in doubt, treat anything electronics-related as if it is static-sensitive, fragile, AND dangerous.
Any questions? No? Good luck.
Everything you guys are saying is probably true. Yet I just put in another order. Dang. It's hard not to.
I thought I'd try Arrow for the first time last week. They had some LED displays that I needed for a good price.
Ordered on Friday. On Saturday I got 4 different notifications and tracking numbers, so they've split it into four boxes. On Monday I have a missed delivery slip at my front door for the first box.
I'm in Australia btw.
How is this even possible for them to get a box from the USA to Australia over a weekend, let alone make money off a $1 part, in a box by itself, shipped for free from the USA to Australia?
Quote from: mjg on February 25, 2019, 06:48:05 AM
I thought I'd try Arrow for the first time last week. They had some LED displays that I needed for a good price.
Ordered on Friday. On Saturday I got 4 different notifications and tracking numbers, so they've split it into four boxes. On Monday I have a missed delivery slip at my front door for the first box.
I'm in Australia btw.
How is this even possible for them to get a box from the USA to Australia over a weekend, let alone make money off a $1 part, in a box by itself, shipped for free from the USA to Australia?
They lose money on every sale, but they make it up in volume.
The four boxes arrived today - the courier did three trips from the depot. :o
This many parts:
(http://www.graybloomfield.com/guitar/misc/arrow/thumbs/P2261839.jpg)
Came in 4 boxes, with 10 metres of packing paper scrunched up, a bunch of plastic, 18 pages of invoices, 7 stickers for packing, 7 anti-static bags, 4 smaller boxes-inside-boxes, 2 x 20cm anti-static chip holders, and some bubble wrap.
(http://www.graybloomfield.com/guitar/misc/arrow/pics/P2261837.jpg)
My 'favourite' part - these two mosfets, which each came in their own plastic strip that would hold 20 or so mosfets, and then each in an anti-static bag of A4 size.
(http://www.graybloomfield.com/guitar/misc/arrow/pics/P2261838.jpg)
I have to admit, I was expecting excessive, but this is... yeah. Excessive.
I had 3 capacitors arrive in two boxes.
Quote from: mjg on February 26, 2019, 08:39:20 AM
The four boxes arrived today - the courier did three trips from the depot. :o
This many parts:
(http://www.graybloomfield.com/guitar/misc/arrow/thumbs/P2261839.jpg)
Came in 4 boxes, with 10 metres of packing paper scrunched up, a bunch of plastic, 18 pages of invoices, 7 stickers for packing, 7 anti-static bags, 4 smaller boxes-inside-boxes, 2 x 20cm anti-static chip holders, and some bubble wrap.
(http://www.graybloomfield.com/guitar/misc/arrow/pics/P2261837.jpg)
My 'favourite' part - these two mosfets, which each came in their own plastic strip that would hold 20 or so mosfets, and then each in an anti-static bag of A4 size.
(http://www.graybloomfield.com/guitar/misc/arrow/pics/P2261838.jpg)
I have to admit, I was expecting excessive, but this is... yeah. Excessive.
This is a great summary of the Arrow experience.
Completely insane...
If youre canadian they charge you 25$ custom fee per boxe...
I'm still going to use them. I use Amazon prime too. It's a similar experience. Drone delivery is going to be even better!
Quote from: Leevibe on February 26, 2019, 11:33:49 PM
I'm still going to use them. I use Amazon prime too. It's a similar experience. Drone delivery is going to be even better!
That's going to be a lot of drones. I wonder if they'll play Ride of the Valkyries with every delivery.
Quote from: pickdropper on February 26, 2019, 11:42:49 PM
Quote from: Leevibe on February 26, 2019, 11:33:49 PM
I'm still going to use them. I use Amazon prime too. It's a similar experience. Drone delivery is going to be even better!
That's going to be a lot of drones. I wonder if they'll play Ride of the Valkyries with every delivery.
I think out where I live there could be a lot of this...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/QBBbzrUkv1a80/giphy.gif)
I once ordered 1 qty Analog Devices DSP chip for $10, it came in a whole JEDEC IC tray set and 2' x 2' x 3' box sent Next Day Air. It can't be profitable, and they have to be well aware of it. It will end one day...
(http://jedecictray.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/IMG-20170610-WA0001-825x510.jpg)
I went through a 3 year phase of building tons of stuff, it was much easier to buy 1-2 each and not have to keep inventory, especially when they had next day shipping from halfway across the country.
Quote from: Leevibe on February 26, 2019, 11:33:49 PM
I'm still going to use them. I use Amazon prime too. It's a similar experience. Drone delivery is going to be even better!
How about learning to plan further ahead than where your next meal comes from? Amazon daily deliveries, sure ::). People like you... Any sort of environmental or moral conscience is just 404. Murica first, me firster!
Quote from: TFZ on February 27, 2019, 12:36:31 AM
Quote from: Leevibe on February 26, 2019, 11:33:49 PM
I'm still going to use them. I use Amazon prime too. It's a similar experience. Drone delivery is going to be even better!
How about learning to plan further ahead than where your next meal comes from? Amazon daily deliveries, sure ::). People like you... Any sort of environmental or moral conscience is just 404. Murica first, me firster!
Wanna hear the most effed up part? We basically consider this a purely political issue here in the US.
I'm guilty... I needed one IC, and I needed it fast.
But rather than let Arrow Next-Day ship me a part that cost 54 cents I figured I'd go ahead and stock up on a couple hundred EEPROMs just to offset the shipping cost a bit.
Buuut, they shipped from different parts of the USA... One via FedEx, one via UPS.... so my attempt to save them money probably actually cost them more.
The irony? The EEPROMs arrived today. The specific item I needed was delayed with no ETA. ;D
Quote from: TFZ on February 27, 2019, 12:36:31 AM
Quote from: Leevibe on February 26, 2019, 11:33:49 PM
I'm still going to use them. I use Amazon prime too. It's a similar experience. Drone delivery is going to be even better!
How about learning to plan further ahead than where your next meal comes from? Amazon daily deliveries, sure ::). People like you... Any sort of environmental or moral conscience is just 404. Murica first, me firster!
While I agree that there should be attention paid to the environmental impact of our decisions, I'm not sure it's totally fair to lump Lee in with folks that don't care or ignore environmental impact. Unfortunately, there are many Americans that do think that way, but it's not everybody. Sadly, convenience too often is the final arbiter of successful products. I hope so see that change in our lifetimes.
Beyond that, I simply can't handle buying parts on a 1 in, 1 out basis. It's simply too time consuming to constantly generate small orders. Now, everybody is susceptible to a surprise shortage or part emergency (I see it all the time in engineering), but it's much less stressful to keep a stock of known used parts.
It is sickening to see that business models like this seem to work where the majority of 'stream lined' trade buffers the losses of stupidity like this. It is cheaper for Amazon to destroy lightly damaged or even just perfectly fine but customer returned products rather than sorting them, getting them fixed or re sold. Also that would undercut their profit margin of selling new products in the first place. The business model eats it's base and keeps the shareholders happy, for the moment.
Sickening. Just sickening.
If anyone tells me that it is a good idea to go to Mars and start a human colony to insure survival of mankind I think that person needs to think through how to solve these 'much simpler' problems first. Go on.
Going to Mars and leave our bad habits and a heap of trash behind. Great idea. I won't be on board, thanks a lot, and so won't be billions of ordinary people.
Like in the 'hitchhickers guide to galaxy' we should send all those hairdressers and phone sanitizers etc in the first ship of 'the fleet' and then get on with looking after ourselves and our planet.
Maybe it's all just a simulation. Sorry for the rant. It's all the sense I can make of it...
Quote from: TFZ on February 27, 2019, 12:36:31 AM
Quote from: Leevibe on February 26, 2019, 11:33:49 PM
I'm still going to use them. I use Amazon prime too. It's a similar experience. Drone delivery is going to be even better!
How about learning to plan further ahead than where your next meal comes from? Amazon daily deliveries, sure ::). People like you... Any sort of environmental or moral conscience is just 404. Murica first, me firster!
So, I feel like I've really offended some people here and for that I sincerely apologize. I got a little tongue-in-cheek and didn't realize I was touching on some deeply held convictions. Sorry guys.
Like Pickdropper said, I'm not sure I fit very well with the screw the environment crowd. I actually think stewardship of our planet is important. I have my own deeply held convictions, none of which include blind patriotism. I do feel blessed to be a US citizen and I try not to take the privilege for granted, but loyalty to the country I live in isn't my highest priority by a very large margin. Considering others as more important than myself is a bigger aspiration of mine, and I'm aware daily of my shortcomings in that area.
TFZ, sorry for upsetting you. I don't think you have characterized me very well at all but I can see how this post would lead to a quick stereotype.
As far as Arrow's business model, I think we can speculate but who knows why the really do what they do? I used to deliver steel and I remember how important it was to our company that we treated the little businesses with as much care as our big bread and butter customers. The idea was ultimately self serving in that we believed that they would remain loyal to us if they grew to be big companies. Maybe Arrow is seeing the tinkering community as the breeding ground for future loyal big customers. I don't know.
As to the ludicrous packaging and multiple shipments, who knows? The shipment part isn't surprising to me. I get that it seems to make more sense to get consolidated shipments, but if they are coming from different vendors or warehouse locations, whether they consolidate at their facility or at my doorstep doesn't really change the fact that stuff moves from lots of places.
So far, with the packaging materials I've received, I have recycled all of the outer cardboard boxes and paper packing material. It all broke down to almost nothing. The ESD bags went into the garbage and I've pretty much saved the other boxes because I think they will be handy. One of them has already been used to ship something across the country.
Again, sorry for starting something that is really upsetting to some of you guys. Didn't mean it that way.
Thanks Lee for typing this reasonable response. I'm actually a bit surprised myself I got upset by this topic, after all it's just the interwebz. Of course I am aware that there are many shades of environmental awareness and it's an uphill battle. Usually I try to educate and point out alternatives where I think somebody might go the wrong way. But somehow I expect better from the people I hang with, even if it's just on a forum (I might be new here, but I'm not in electronics DIY). Building electronics yourself does require more mental capacity than flipping burgers, so I'm disappointed by seeing somebody who I assume should know better blatantly and knowingly ignoring what to me is basic responsible behavior.
I saw the topic already days ago, but I felt like others had said already what had to be said concerning the environmental side of it, so I kept my mouth shut. I realize that half of what you said before was probably in jest, but when you mentioned Amazon en passant you hit a nerve. Closely related to the current environmental issues, it's this general spirit of consumerism that is really a red flag to me. The constant shopping of mostly useless crap, new phone every year, throwing good stuff out because it's not the latest model of xyz, so many bullshit products everywhere that serve no actual purpose. And particularly Amazon is the culprit that helped spawn this behavior. Not to mention the way their workers are treated and getting paid, bullying states or cities into tax cuts by one of the richest and most powerful companies, destroying returned items in masses instead of repairing or giving them away at a lower price or to welfare because that's cheaper, ... The list is really endless.
Sawing the branch we're all sitting on together without any regard for the people around you isn't a reasonable thing to do. But gladly things seem to be changing a lot in the US as well now for the last two or three years, the Donald seems to be the trigger for bringing up all sorts of important issues in protest to him. China is showing signs of trying to move in the right direction as well, so I am actually hopeful we as humans still can turn this ship away from the iceberg. I am also convinced that it is us, the engineers or technically minded people in general, who have to lead and will make the necessary progress to make it happen. But we have to do it in a way that everybody is able and willing to follow. You vote every couple of years for your government, but you vote every day with the money you spend, and every buck counts.
Quote from: TFZ on February 27, 2019, 09:38:09 AM
Sawing the branch we're all sitting on together without any regard for the people around you isn't a reasonable thing to do. But gladly things seem to be changing a lot in the US as well now for the last two or three years, the Donald seems to be the trigger for bringing up all sorts of important issues in protest to him. China is showing signs of trying to move in the right direction as well, so I am actually hopeful we as humans still can turn this ship away from the iceberg. I am also convinced that it is us, the engineers or technically minded people in general, who have to lead and will make the necessary progress to make it happen. But we have to do it in a way that everybody is able and willing to follow. You vote every couple of years for your government, but you vote every day with the money you spend, and every buck counts.
Well said.