Further to this thread: https://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=30749.msg296563#msg296563
When populating a pcb, when do you snip your long component leads - before or after soldering?
Please reply with "Before" of "After".
After (but there exist some fancy snippers that cut and crimp the components, and if I had one, I would probably change my mind)
After
Usually After, but there have been some tight boards (with annoyingly tiny pads) where I've snipped bits Before to avoid accidental shorts and messes.
After
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Bend, snip, then solder
After. Lately, I populate all resistors w/ PCB clamped in vice, top solder, flip, bottom solder, then snip.
I think that NASA spec is snip before solder (and crimp the lead, so you can rattle the PCB before soldering, and the parts will all stay in place.)
I'm not NASA compliant :(
Quote from: alanp on February 24, 2020, 06:05:47 AM
I think that NASA spec is snip before solder (and crimp the lead, so you can rattle the PCB before soldering, and the parts will all stay in place.)
I'm not NASA compliant :(
Before is definitely safer as there is no risk of trauma to the solder joint when clipping it. Clipping after the fact isn't usually all that risky as long as it is clipped above the joint. The main mistake folks usually make after the fact is cutting through the solder joint.
Bend, solder, snip.
Load all resistors and diodes, snip.
Load all electrolytics, snip.
Load all film caps snip.
Load all transistors and sockets, whatever is left, snip.
Solder everything in one go.
Meh, it works for me.
Quote from: madbean on February 24, 2020, 01:38:28 PM
Load all resistors and diodes, snip.
Load all electrolytics, snip.
Load all film caps snip.
Load all transistors and sockets, whatever is left, snip.
Solder everything in one go.
Meh, it works for me.
How do you keep everything in place before turning it over to solder?
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Ok. I'm going to add one of these to my Amazon cart soon.
(https://www.piergiacomi.com/piergiacomi/images/prodotti_utensili/immagini/utensilispeciali/tagliapiega/tp-5000-15-tech.jpg)
They seem to be called cut-and-bend or cut-and-clinch tools. Anyone own one?
Quote from: Aentons on February 24, 2020, 03:41:22 AM
Bend, snip, then solder
Quote from: jimilee on February 24, 2020, 02:40:32 PM
Quote from: madbean on February 24, 2020, 01:38:28 PM
Load all resistors and diodes, snip.
Load all electrolytics, snip.
Load all film caps snip.
Load all transistors and sockets, whatever is left, snip.
Solder everything in one go.
Meh, it works for me.
How do you keep everything in place before turning it over to solder?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For me, it usually goes something like this..
After. Soldering is the Zen moment for me, so I like to go slow and methodically, one by one, and enjoy the process 8).
I populate a little, bend a little to hold, then flip and solder. I trim when the forest of leads gets too thick to get the soldering iron in.
I am intrigued by the cut and bend nippers. But part of me wonders if I would be able to change, I'm probably stuck in my ways ;D
Quote from: EBK on February 24, 2020, 02:55:58 PM
Ok. I'm going to add one of these to my Amazon cart soon.
(https://www.piergiacomi.com/piergiacomi/images/prodotti_utensili/immagini/utensilispeciali/tagliapiega/tp-5000-15-tech.jpg)
They seem to be called cut-and-bend or cut-and-clinch tools. Anyone own one?
Had never heard of this before. I just ordered one. It'll take a few weeks for me to get it but I'll report back.
The one I got was:
Hakko CHP TP-5000-15-D
Cost a little more than I'd hoped but if it works and I could populate everything the solder all at once it will be worth it.
My mind is blown that people snip then solder. I refuse to believe this isn't a dream.
Quote from: dan.schumaker on February 24, 2020, 03:30:52 PM
I populate a little, bend a little to hold, then flip and solder. I trim when the forest of leads gets too thick to get the soldering iron in.
Same here. Populate and bend until just before the leads get too 'dense'. Flip, solder, snip... repeat. 8)
Order of Operation:
- Resistors, IC sockets, and diodes
- Film caps
- Electro caps
- Transistors
- Other electronics (relays, transformers, etc.)
Mixed. Sockets in with blu tack, solder then snip. Bend and snip resistors and diodes, solder in one pass. Bend and snip film caps, solder all in one pass. Electros and transistors, usually place one or two, solder then snip.
After.
Quote from: HamSandwich on February 24, 2020, 04:00:43 PM
My mind is blown that people snip then solder. I refuse to believe this isn't a dream.
I don't understand how you would even be able to solder without the component falling out if you don't bend the leads
Quote from: jimilee on February 24, 2020, 02:40:32 PM
Quote from: madbean on February 24, 2020, 01:38:28 PM
Load all resistors and diodes, snip.
Load all electrolytics, snip.
Load all film caps snip.
Load all transistors and sockets, whatever is left, snip.
Solder everything in one go.
Meh, it works for me.
How do you keep everything in place before turning it over to solder?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I yell at them until they are too scared to move.
Thanks for the replies guys.
Quote from: Aentons on February 24, 2020, 08:49:56 PM
Quote from: HamSandwich on February 24, 2020, 04:00:43 PM
My mind is blown that people snip then solder. I refuse to believe this isn't a dream.
I don't understand how you would even be able to solder without the component falling out if you don't bend the leads
^This is fundamentally why I started the thread. .
Quote from: Philthy on February 24, 2020, 11:11:31 PM
Thanks for the replies guys.
Quote from: Aentons on February 24, 2020, 08:49:56 PM
Quote from: HamSandwich on February 24, 2020, 04:00:43 PM
My mind is blown that people snip then solder. I refuse to believe this isn't a dream.
I don't understand how you would even be able to solder without the component falling out if you don't bend the leads
^This is fundamentally why I started the thread. .
Well, I thought the question was about when to snip, and not when to bend? ??? Further, if you solder the components in order of increasing height, the table is your friend.
Quote from: Aentons on February 24, 2020, 08:49:56 PM
I don't understand how you would even be able to solder without the component falling out if you don't bend the leads
BlueTak!
(https://i.imgur.com/lMAhik3.png)
Quote from: Matmosphere on February 24, 2020, 03:46:04 PM
Quote from: EBK on February 24, 2020, 02:55:58 PM
Ok. I'm going to add one of these to my Amazon cart soon.
(https://www.piergiacomi.com/piergiacomi/images/prodotti_utensili/immagini/utensilispeciali/tagliapiega/tp-5000-15-tech.jpg)
They seem to be called cut-and-bend or cut-and-clinch tools. Anyone own one?
Had never heard of this before. I just ordered one. It'll take a few weeks for me to get it but I'll report back.
The one I got was:
Hakko CHP TP-5000-15-D
Cost a little more than I'd hoped but if it works and I could populate everything the solder all at once it will be worth it.
I'm really looking forward to your report. I have the same model sitting in my Amazon cart waiting for me to decide.
My life changing experiences in building:
1) Using a step drill bit for the first time
2) Switching from diagonal cutters to flush cutters
3) Discovering the joys of eutectic solder
4?) Changing to a snip-before-soldering workflow?
After, but... i've read you risk damaging the solder joint doing it this way so not recommended.
As to keeping parts from falling from the board, i load same height parts starting with lowest, flip it over so the components are resting/supported by the bench or flat riser then solder away. I do use one of the cheap crappy third hands to hold the pcb and stop it skating away while doing the soldering but the pcb and components are resting flat on the riser.
dave
Quote from: somnif on February 25, 2020, 11:53:01 AM
Quote from: Aentons on February 24, 2020, 08:49:56 PM
I don't understand how you would even be able to solder without the component falling out if you don't bend the leads
BlueTak!
Quote from: davent on February 25, 2020, 08:41:53 PM
As to keeping parts from falling from the board, i load same height parts starting with lowest, flip it over so the components are resting/supported by the bench or flat riser then solder away. I do use one of the cheap crappy third hands to hold the pcb and stop it skating away while doing the soldering but the pcb and components are resting flat on the riser.
dave
but..but..... why? ;D
Quote from: davent on February 25, 2020, 08:41:53 PM
After, but... i've read you risk damaging the solder joint doing it this way so not recommended.
As to keeping parts from falling from the board, i load same height parts starting with lowest, flip it over so the components are resting/supported by the bench or flat riser then solder away. I do use one of the cheap crappy third hands to hold the pcb and stop it skating away while doing the soldering but the pcb and components are resting flat on the riser.
dave
That's how I do it too. Just started it recently. It's waaaay faster than 1 at a time like I was doing for an entire year.
Quote from: Philthy on February 24, 2020, 11:11:31 PM
Thanks for the replies guys.
Quote from: Aentons on February 24, 2020, 08:49:56 PM
Quote from: HamSandwich on February 24, 2020, 04:00:43 PM
My mind is blown that people snip then solder. I refuse to believe this isn't a dream.
I don't understand how you would even be able to solder without the component falling out if you don't bend the leads
^This is fundamentally why I started the thread. .
We're talking sniping, not bending! Of course you have to bend, unless you use blue tak or similar.
I populate all components and trim the leads before soldering. I like being able to do one last check that all the right components are in the right spot before soldering. And there is something really gratifying about soldering everything all at once. If you bend the leads right before you snip nothing moves when its flipped over.
Quote from: EBK on February 24, 2020, 02:55:58 PM
Ok. I'm going to add one of these to my Amazon cart soon.
(https://www.piergiacomi.com/piergiacomi/images/prodotti_utensili/immagini/utensilispeciali/tagliapiega/tp-5000-15-tech.jpg)
They seem to be called cut-and-bend or cut-and-clinch tools. Anyone own one?
These are also known as PCB cutters. I've got a couple of the Erem versions. They are very useful, just make sure you buy the one that sets the height you are looking for. I recommend 0.8mm or 1.0mm (I have both). If I only had one, I'd got 1.0mm.
They feel a bit different as the cutting is more of a shearing action. Useful buggers, though.
These are also known as PCB cutters.
Quote from: pickdropper on February 27, 2020, 01:03:37 PM
These are also known as PCB cutters. I've got a couple of the Erem versions. They are very useful, just make sure you buy the one that sets the height you are looking for. I recommend 0.8mm or 1.0mm (I have both). If I only had one, I'd got 1.0mm.
Do you have a good source or link for these? The only one I can find is the one EBK linked to on Amazon.
Here's another option from Erem. 116$ of swiss engineering! https://www.amazon.com/Erem-530E10-040-Cutter-1-0mm/dp/B0012B6MVC
Or, 408$ of glorious American-made metal! https://www.amazon.com/Cut-Clinch-Pliers-Standoff-EX-530FE-US/dp/B01EKL5N9W
Quote from: somnif on February 28, 2020, 12:41:39 AM
Here's another option from Erem. 116$ of swiss engineering! https://www.amazon.com/Erem-530E10-040-Cutter-1-0mm/dp/B0012B6MVC
Or, 408$ of glorious American-made metal! https://www.amazon.com/Cut-Clinch-Pliers-Standoff-EX-530FE-US/dp/B01EKL5N9W
Those Erems are one of the ones I have. You can find them much cheaper than that. We bought 4 or 5 pairs for FFX off Amazon for a significantly less than that. You can also find used pairs on eBay for less as well.
Quote from: somnif on February 28, 2020, 12:41:39 AM
Here's another option from Erem. 116$ of swiss engineering! https://www.amazon.com/Erem-530E10-040-Cutter-1-0mm/dp/B0012B6MVC
Another $63 US to ship them to Canada... $228 cdn all told.
dave
Quote from: davent on February 28, 2020, 04:09:45 AM
Quote from: somnif on February 28, 2020, 12:41:39 AM
Here's another option from Erem. 116$ of swiss engineering! https://www.amazon.com/Erem-530E10-040-Cutter-1-0mm/dp/B0012B6MVC
Another $63 US to ship them to Canada... $228 cdn all told.
dave
That's way too much. Here's a used pair for $25. Not sure how much they'll charge to ship to Canada:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EREM-530E-Tip-Cutter-Through-hole-soldering-lead-trimming-tool-530E10-1-0mm/182700597310?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Dee7e86152f8148efa19661569b63100c%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D273997975321%26itm%3D182700597310%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A3abde067-59e0-11ea-b1bc-74dbd18019fc%7Cparentrq%3A89fce84b1700a4b77cefb990fff3b7e0%7Ciid%3A1
Quote from: pickdropper on February 28, 2020, 04:10:58 AM
Quote from: davent on February 28, 2020, 04:09:45 AM
Quote from: somnif on February 28, 2020, 12:41:39 AM
Here's another option from Erem. 116$ of swiss engineering! https://www.amazon.com/Erem-530E10-040-Cutter-1-0mm/dp/B0012B6MVC
Another $63 US to ship them to Canada... $228 cdn all told.
dave
That's way too much. Here's a used pair for $25. Not sure how much they'll charge to ship to Canada:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EREM-530E-Tip-Cutter-Through-hole-soldering-lead-trimming-tool-530E10-1-0mm/182700597310?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Dee7e86152f8148efa19661569b63100c%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D273997975321%26itm%3D182700597310%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A3abde067-59e0-11ea-b1bc-74dbd18019fc%7Cparentrq%3A89fce84b1700a4b77cefb990fff3b7e0%7Ciid%3A1
Would you believe $37.40 US for shipping to Canada, things have changed mightily in last few years. And it doesn't end there,
$37.40 USPS Priority Mail International | See details
International shipment of items may be subject to customs processing and additional charges.
Item location:
Deltona, Florida, United Statesdave
Quote from: davent on February 28, 2020, 04:14:45 AM
Quote from: pickdropper on February 28, 2020, 04:10:58 AM
Quote from: davent on February 28, 2020, 04:09:45 AM
Quote from: somnif on February 28, 2020, 12:41:39 AM
Here's another option from Erem. 116$ of swiss engineering! https://www.amazon.com/Erem-530E10-040-Cutter-1-0mm/dp/B0012B6MVC
Another $63 US to ship them to Canada... $228 cdn all told.
dave
That's way too much. Here's a used pair for $25. Not sure how much they'll charge to ship to Canada:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/EREM-530E-Tip-Cutter-Through-hole-soldering-lead-trimming-tool-530E10-1-0mm/182700597310?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20160908105057%26meid%3Dee7e86152f8148efa19661569b63100c%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D15%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D273997975321%26itm%3D182700597310%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380057&_trksid=p2380057.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%3A3abde067-59e0-11ea-b1bc-74dbd18019fc%7Cparentrq%3A89fce84b1700a4b77cefb990fff3b7e0%7Ciid%3A1
Would you believe $37.40 US for shipping to Canada, things have changed mightily in last few years. And it doesn't end there,
$37.40 USPS Priority Mail International | See details
International shipment of items may be subject to customs processing and additional charges.
Item location:
Deltona, Florida, United States
dave
Yikes, that's a bit steep.
Populate board with all of one component type
Cover the component side of the board with that blue tacky stuff from grade school
Snip (do not bend)
Solder
Remove blue tack
Quote from: HamSandwich on February 26, 2020, 02:33:35 AM
Quote from: Philthy on February 24, 2020, 11:11:31 PM
Thanks for the replies guys.
Quote from: Aentons on February 24, 2020, 08:49:56 PM
Quote from: HamSandwich on February 24, 2020, 04:00:43 PM
My mind is blown that people snip then solder. I refuse to believe this isn't a dream.
I don't understand how you would even be able to solder without the component falling out if you don't bend the leads
^This is fundamentally why I started the thread. .
We're talking sniping, not bending! Of course you have to bend, unless you use blue tak or similar.
I am sorry Aentons, I didn't mean to come off harsh here and it reads like an over reaction. Apologies.
Quote from: HamSandwich
I am sorry Aentons, I didn't mean to come off harsh hear and it reads like an over reaction. Apologies.
It's all good. i was just being goofy and assume same same from everyone else. ;D
Just got these today. Initial impression is positive but I'll see if I can try them out this week and report back.