Anyone have the scoop on this circuit from Black Arts Toneworks? At heart it is a Colorsound Overdriver but not sure what mods were done. Searching around on the interwebs doesn't reveal much about it.
I know there is a 6-way input cap switch but not sure what else is going on. Wouldn't mind building one up.
Well by the number of knobs I'd say it's an overdriver + volume pot + input cap rotary switch.
Any gutshots anywhere on the interweb?
Quote from: Cortexturizer on February 18, 2014, 01:33:28 PM
Well by the number of knobs I'd say it's an overdriver + volume pot + input cap rotary switch.
Any gutshots anywhere on the interweb?
Here is one of a prototype it appears
looks like bc109, which is a common tranny for the overdriver. so that pretty much settles it for me, there's three of them trannies, the number of resistors, caps, electros, all look veeeeeeeeeeery similar to the overdriver. someone will reveal more, someone that's not colorblind and has a soft spot for the overdriver maybe?
I'm sure Black Arts are the guys Culture Jam does PCB layouts for.
He may (or may not) be allowed to drop you some hints ;)
Hm, that's an interesting development ;D
I've been curious about this one too - but looking at the PCB, there seems to be too few caps. The standard CSOD has about 6 film caps. There are less than that on the Black Arts proto board and that's not even accounting for the different input caps. Is there something else going on here?
Yes I think the Cherrybomb with a couple caps on an input switch would be good and close but would like to know if there was anything else major done to the circuit that could be modded on the cherrybomber.
I happen to have an original.
Shall I take pictures for you guys?
Quote from: Tremster on February 18, 2014, 05:23:08 PM
I happen to have an original.
Shall I take pictures for you guys?
Don't want to overstep any boundaries but as long as others are cool with that sure.
Also, what do you think of it? Have you played it against a cherrybomb or other CSO pedal?
I love it! Got it used for a got deal on ebay and it's been on the board ever since.
I like it a lot more than the Cherrybomb I built, that was one of the early builds for me.
I was suprised at how little gain it has by itself, it needs a dirt pedal after (that's how I use mine) or an overdriven amp. That way it can add massive crunch but retain a certain clarity at that, if that makes sense. Also, it can be dialed in to have a lot more low and/or high end. And at the very end of the gain taper, at max, it suddenly adds way more sweet treble, almost like a treble booster.
Will take pictures later and post them here.
Opened the pedal up and - nice - all the values of the components are printed on the PCB. I can't read the numbers of any of the resistors though, except two, and not all the capacitors.
Here's what I can read:
Gain B10K
Bass B100K
Treb B100K (?)
Vol A100K
D1 4001
Q1-Q3 BC109
C1A "2A822KT" (Greenie)
C1B 10nF
C1C 22nF
C1D 47nF
C1E 220nF
C1F 470nF
C2 10uF
C3 470pF
C4 4u7
C6 10nF
C8 10nF
C9 4u7
C10 (?) 220nF
C11 22uF
two remaining electrolytics (can't read the numbers): 22uF and 100uF
one remaining film cap: 100nF
R11 4k7
R16 4k7
(http://gain%20b10k(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Erdnuessemitchili/IMG_7965_zps06cff384.jpg)
(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Erdnuessemitchili/IMG_7966_zps85f63d21.jpg)
(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Erdnuessemitchili/IMG_7967_zpsb2964967.jpg)
(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Erdnuessemitchili/IMG_7968_zps7ff8a387.jpg)
(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Erdnuessemitchili/IMG_7969_zps14092037.jpg)
(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Erdnuessemitchili/IMG_7970_zps14d82382.jpg)
(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Erdnuessemitchili/IMG_7971_zps151ef379.jpg)
(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Erdnuessemitchili/IMG_7962_zpsa5583f72.jpg)
If anyone will make a PCB: I'll take one.
Interesting...it does look like you could just take a Cherrybomb PCB and change the gain pot to a 10KB and wire the different input caps on a rotary switch. It might not even be worth making up a PCB for since it's so close to the original Coloursound.
Can someone make a detailed explanation for that?
And can this fit in a 1590B? .......
Interesting. I didn't know the boards were coming out with the values on them. Mark must have done that after I finished with the layout. Should be pretty simple to just turn on the TValues layer.
I don't recall the exact details as it was quite some time ago that I worked on it, but the main differentiator is the rotary switch for the input caps.
I'll try...
From the Cherry Bomb schematic, replace C4 with a 470pf cap, use BC109s for the transistors, and change the gain pot to a 10KB.
For the input cap, omit C1 from the board and instead do this:
(http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/switches/tonestack.gif)
Use 8.2n, 10n, 22n 47n, 220n (Coloursound stock value), and 470nf for the switch.
Ta-da! I think the rotary switch will make it too big for a 1590B, but there are tinier ones available at Smallbear and on Ebay so it might be do-able with some cramming.
So they don't clean their boards either... ;D
Alright, thanks.
Might mod my Cherrybomb some time.
Cool
I will breadboard it and see what I think. I think the 6-way rotary would be overkill for me. I might try like a 10n, 22n, and 470n on a DPDT on/off/on and see how that might work out
Good stuff. Looks like its similar to the standard overdriver then.
The colorsound overdriver is something I keep meaning to try out.
Quote from: raulduke on February 18, 2014, 11:42:40 PM
Good stuff. Looks like its similar to the standard overdriver then.
The colorsound overdriver is something I keep meaning to try out.
Yes me too. Such a classic circuit that I have never played or built :(
Looks like resistor wise they omitted the 33k to ground before q3 (R11 on the Cherrybomb, as long as I'm not blind. The prototype has it, though), and added an 1M pulldown and the CLR on board.
C5 & C7 are 4u7 from 10uf, and One of the 100n caps seems to be missing, I think the one across the bass pot.
Did you breadboard this, Pryde or anyone? What are the opinions?
RESURRECTED
Just wondering if anyone came up with something that sounded pretty close to the original. I was asked about this pedal by a buddie and remembered this thread.
Cody
Quote from: Tremster on March 11, 2014, 10:40:19 AM
Did you breadboard this, Pryde or anyone? What are the opinions?
I have not had a chance unfortunately. Still interested though but its pretty busy at the moment
Weird that this comes up now because just this weekend I got an email asking about verification of some cap values on the pedal, I came up with this:
(http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu259/Erdnuessemitchili/BlackForestCaps_zps6d5fb1d5.jpg)
And my answer:
Some prints on the PCB are really hard to read because they are printed above and into each other, but I'm fairly sure that everything is right now.
C7 says "104J"
C5 is also hard to read, but it's probably C5. That one is 22uF.
The electrolytic with the "?" is 100uF. It must be C12, but I really can't read it.
For resistors, I still can't read them.
It would be cool if this could be made into a BOM so that people can build a Black Forest on a CherryBomb board.
2A822KT decoded means:
2A = 100V
822 8n2 Cap with a 10% tolerance
KT = strange... K = +/- 10% T = -10%/+50%
I think it's possible to use guitarfxlayout vero and change few things:
- All the resistors are the same
- All the film cap are the same
- Change the cermic cap for 470pF.
- Change the input cap (220nF on the left) for the "switch capacitor"
- Change transistors for BC109
- Change 25uF for 22uF
- The only thing I don't know, it's what capacitors has to be change to the 100uF of the Black Forest. If someone can help us. (seems to be a 25uF on the layout but it's possible that is an other value, I can't see exactly where the copper line go).
- Next step, buy Black Arts Toneworks effects, because this pedals kicks ass, greats graphics and solid construction.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-k9jd7lIqcJo/UIamR54m3NI/AAAAAAAADKM/9KAarzVr2Is/s1600/ColorSound+Overdriver.png)
Here is what I came up with last night.
(http://music.codydeschenes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/BABFLayout.png)
I am working with another Colorsound Overdriver layout since I wanted to use 5mm caps. I will post the details after I test it out.
Mark probably use the 100uf value as is standard for the power filtering section, explaining the 25uf swap.
It should'nt change nothing to the actual tone of the pedal.
pretty dumb that they have a slot on the board for a mounting standoff and instead they hot glue the board to the case...
eugh.
Tagboardeffects added a vero layout today:
http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.de/2014/04/black-arts-toneworks-black-forest.html (http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.de/2014/04/black-arts-toneworks-black-forest.html)