I'm a noob... and I love it. ;D
Its not always easy being inexperienced, but this board has proven uniquely welcoming and helpful to those of us who are in the beginning stages of learning. This is particularly great given how much experience many of you are bringing to the table. If you experienced folk are willing, I thought it might be cool to create a thread dedicated to the following question:
"What is one thing that you wish you would have known when you were getting started building pedals?"
Thanks for anything you all are willing to share!
That it's better to spend the money and get the right tool the first time, rather than botch the job and then end up wasting time and money using inferior tools.
Jacob
I wish I woulda understood sooner that I learn more if it doesn't work first time and I've got to debug it; to not to be a little bitch and quit too soon. A circuit firing up first time is great but if I hadn't have screwed up as much as I have and needed to learn, I'd know precisely dick at this point.
That a drilling template made by someone else may not be the optimal way of placing components.
When I was somewhat new, I built a tube screamer clone that had a mod requiring an extra toggle switch. The instructions I was following said that it would be impossible to install the toggle switch on the face of the enclosure with the other controls because there was not enough room. I blindly accepted that and mounted the toggle on the side of the enclosure. After gaining more experience, I realized that it would have been, in fact, simple to adjust the drilling template to accommodate the toggle without overcrowding anything. The pedal sounded good, but it is nonetheless on my to-be-rebuilt heap to reposition the controls.
Sometimes it's the silly little tricks like using Blu-tac to hold parts in place that can make a ton of difference.
There are no stupid questions.
dave
Quote from: jkokura on May 22, 2018, 07:31:36 PM
That it's better to spend the money and get the right tool the first time, rather than botch the job and then end up wasting time and money using inferior tools.
Amen.
"Buy right and cry once."
When you get frustrated, put it down for a day instead of eventually melting it down.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Step drill bit
the hard part about actually building pedals is the enclosures and offboard wiring.
bonus: laser printed clear waterslide decal with clear coat is the easiest way to get crisp looking enclosures.
Quote from: EBK on May 23, 2018, 12:50:26 AM
Step drill bit
This ^
I always read good things but resisted for ever.
Harbor Frieght has one for five bucks that has held up to my past ~20 builds.
Quote from: Matmosphere on May 23, 2018, 01:11:27 AM
I always read good things but resisted for ever.
Harbor Frieght has one for five bucks that has held up to my past ~20 builds.
The HF ones (and also those you get at auto parts places) aren't bad. But the Irwin Unibit (not cheap) lasted me more than 100 pedals, and then I just filed the edges a bit and got another 20-ish pedals before it wore out. I bought another one and still have it.
Quote from: culturejam on May 23, 2018, 01:23:31 AM
The HF ones (and also those you get at auto parts places) aren't bad. But the Irwin Unibit (not cheap) lasted me more than 100 pedals, and then I just filed the edges a bit and got another 20-ish pedals before it wore out. I bought another one and still have it.
To badly quote Adam Savage of Mythbusters fame: When starting out, buy cheap tools. If you use it often enough for it to wear out, go and buy the best quality one you can afford, because that is something you will actually get use out of.
(Obviously don't buy something so cheap that its dangerous, but don't go and buy a Snap-On Drill Press when you aren't sure if you're going to make more than 1 or 2 pedals.)
Cheap tools can function really poorly turning an easy task into something arduous and frustrating discouraging someone new to an activity from carrying.
dave
- Pedal 9v connectors are centre negative, unlike most other appliances. (I had to resolder the connectors on my first 5 or so pedals once I found that out)
- cheap transistors on eBay that are 100x the price elsewhere are probably fake.
- plastic enclosures not so good for stomping on.
That i would have to become a dealer to support my habit 😒.
Quote from: somnif on May 23, 2018, 01:51:04 AM
To badly quote Adam Savage of Mythbusters fame: When starting out, buy cheap tools. If you use it often enough for it to wear out, go and buy the best quality one you can afford, because that is something you will actually get use out of.
I totally agree.
The only reason I bought a Unibit to start is because I couldn't find a cheaper alternative. If I could have paid $10 instead of $45, I definitely would have. ;)
Get some of the Barry's Best wire from guitarpcb.
Try out some 63/37 solder unless you really have to use lead free. Always wash your hands after you use it.
If your iron ever slips out of your hand while soldering, ignore that innate reflex that tells you you're quick enough to catch it before it hits the floor.
Hmmm...
BUY A WIRE STRIPPER.
Stop trying to half-ass it, stripping the ends of wires with your side-cutters. Uncrack your wallet, Alan, let the moths out, and buy some goddamn strippers.
+ Clean the board with isopropyl alcohol and a toothbrush before soldering! I got lazy for a stretch and ended up with a string of pedals with cold solder joints, including a Lovetone Meatball clone that cost $40 in parts and remains in the do-not-resuscitate bin. This goes double for stripboard. And don't touch the board afterward! The oils can (again) cause cold joints.
+ Invest in one of those nifty Chinese eBay Mega328 parts testers. There are obviously better testers out there - the Peak DCA75 comes to mind - but if you just want to make sure your cheapie Tayda parts are in spec (or just working at all), the eBay tester covers a lot of ground. I test every single part before it hits my PCB, and I've gone from a 1 out of 3 first-time fail rate to something like a 1 out of 12 fail rate. The last project I messed up was an Aquaboy, and then only because that thing's a legitimate beast.
+ Wiring 3PDTs is a pointless hassle unless there's some special way they're supposed to be wired (as in a... buffered pedal, I guess?). If the project's standard true bypass, just use Rullywow's space-saving 3PDT board or similar. They're so cheap and reliable that I buy them in bulk.
+ Things I second: Barry's Best wire is great, wire strippers are great, step bits are great, and wiring (in general, not just for 3PDTs) sucks. I make about 95% of my mistakes during the wiring stage - cold joints, odd grounding issues, etc.
+ Socket your transistors and ICs. Everyone says it, but they're right: it will save you a world of annoyance.
+ Build a testing rig/Beavis Board and, as they say, "rock it before you box it." Nothing can make your head swim quite like repeatedly removing a build from an enclosure in order to troubleshoot it (and it's not exactly heaven for your connections either).
+ Speaking of troubleshooting: read the schematic when you troubleshoot! In my experience, it's surprisingly easy to brick your voltmeter by hitting a power connection instead of signal pad.
+ A spritz of hot glue will lock down a loose LED. Actually, hot glue is useful for all sorts of things.
+ If a knob has absolutely no metal parts, it's a piece of garbage and will almost certainly become loose at some point. Also, 1/4" knurled pots + 1/4" knobs made for knurled pots = the easiest possible knob job for a pedal.
+ The pedal market is very, very saturated - and with very talented people (go check out ZVex's Candela Vibrophase and goggle, if you like) - so don't go into this thinking "hey, maybe I'll start selling these at some point." Unless you're already an engineering guru or you've been at this for a few years, think of this as a hobby where you will learn some new skills, not a possible career. If you take to it, get down with some Craig Anderton and R.G. Keen, start to learn the E.E. fundamentals, and maybe try your hand at more ambitious projects (a mic, preamp, amp, or DIYRE-/TH Customs-style utility thing).
When I first started out, decades ago (!), I underestimated the difficulty of making good solder joints.
I was too excited to build this complex project as my first build and ended up screwing things up royally with some of the worst
solder joints known to man.
Lesson learned. Bought a quality Weller iron ( still going strong ) and started out much simpler.
Bought a simple breadboard and transferred the working circuit to one of those breadboard pcbs.
To this day, I still get a lot of satisfaction in making a good shiny solder joint.
Quote from: vizcities on May 23, 2018, 05:29:07 AM
+ The pedal market is very, very saturated - and with very talented people (go check out ZVex's Candela Vibrophase and goggle, if you like) - so don't go into this thinking "hey, maybe I'll start selling these at some point." Unless you're already an engineering guru or you've been at this for a few years, think of this as a hobby where you will learn some new skills, not a possible career.
Also along these economic lines...
A quality clone of a popular pedal can cost $50-$100 to build. The same pedal can be purchased from Joyo for $30. Building your own pedals is neither going to earn you money nor save you money. But, it is fun, and what you
can do eventually, perhaps, is design/build something unique. If you ever do that, it can be far more rewarding to share it freely than try to market it.
Buy some prebond wire. Twisting and tinning is for chumps. I always have four colors, and always use them the same way: black is negative, red positive, green is in, yellow is out.
Bonus: get a wire stripper that measures, cuts, and removes the insulation all in one squeezing motion, like the tool pictured below. I would quit building pedals if I couldn’t use this tool. Really.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180523/a3ef955c4a8112d0c8cd31caf1559bf9.jpg)
Don't assume anything is right on a build that doesn't fire up the first time.
Buy two of everything.
Double everything in your first parts orders (so you have backups and can build random pedals without waiting later on).
Rock it before you box it. Then you know that it's your offboard wiring that killed the pedal. I've grounded the output on accident in the enclosure enough times to learn that.
Get a step bit and wire strippers. Stripping wire sucks and changing bits is annoying.
Make an audio probe with an extra input jack, 100nF capacitor, and some alligator clips for debugging.
Socket transistors, diodes and caps/resistors in filtering sections to play around with interesting parts of the circuit.
When you add SIP sockets, break off the amount you need and then stick them back on the remaining stick of sockets to space them out and make it easier to solder them in place. Once you get a couple of sockets in place, continue putting the individual sockets on the strip and then steady that strip by inserting part of it into the sockets you previously soldered to the board in order to steady it. This is a confusing thing to put in words, but there's a picture showing it in the build process article on my blog. http://prentisseffects.blogspot.com/2017/06/getting-started-build-procedure.html (http://prentisseffects.blogspot.com/2017/06/getting-started-build-procedure.html)
Also, plug one end of your wire into a socket when you're doing your offboard wiring to hold it in place while you solder.
When your pedal doesn't work, your first debugging steps should be: 1) make sure your power source is plugged in, 2) make sure your guitar is actually plugged into the pedal input, and 3) make sure the amp is actually plugged into the pedal output.
I've seen lots of combinations/variations of those simple things going wrong and wasting time.
Breadboard is essential
Germanium is pointless
Quote from: sjaustin on May 23, 2018, 11:30:28 AM
black is negative, red positive, green blue is in, yellow is out.
Holy cow this really took off! I have loved reading everything so far and have learned a ton. Thanks to everyone who has shared so far. I look forward to hearing even more from y'all!
Quote from: sjaustin on May 23, 2018, 11:30:28 AM
Buy some prebond wire. Twisting and tinning is for chumps. I always have four colors, and always use them the same way: black is negative, red positive, green is in, yellow is out.
Huh, when I do colourcode wires, it's usually -- black ground, red 9V, yellow for dry signal (In), blue for wet signal (Out).
Quote from: alanp on May 23, 2018, 04:32:38 PM
Quote from: sjaustin on May 23, 2018, 11:30:28 AM
Buy some prebond wire. Twisting and tinning is for chumps. I always have four colors, and always use them the same way: black is negative, red positive, green is in, yellow is out.
Huh, when I do colourcode wires, it's usually -- black ground, red 9V, yellow for dry signal (In), blue for wet signal (Out).
I used white wire for clean signal (in) and brown wire for dirty signal (out).
unfortunately I couldn't distill this down to a singular thing so I will share the whole of what I wish I would have known.
I wish I would have known that it would ultimately be more important that I know WHY instead of HOW. It is much easier to know how to buy parts and solder them together than it is to know why things are done a certain way or work a certain way. I guess if I were to expound on that, I would have spent more time reading and less time doing.
I wish I started out spending more money on tools than toys. I'm not a gigging musician so this is all a hobby, the fruits of which are toys for me to play with and enjoy and of course the satisfaction of doing it myself. I'd much rather have started with a better set of tools to build better toys with rather than struggling in the doing it myself phase. the shame is that I knew I needed better but couldn't (at the time) justify the investment vs the gratification of having the next pedal or amp or guitar.
I wish I walked away more. I've broken the marathon build/troubleshoot habit and I don't miss it. so what if you circle back to it in a day/week/month/year? it would probably be better than powering through and making mistakes, reworking, getting frustrated, stressed out, or abjectly angry. I've solved more problems in the shower or on the drive in to work than I have at the workbench.
I wish I hadn't tried to turn a hobby into a business, even a limited one. I'm just not able to enjoy work. I've always considered work that thing I do for money and a hobby that thing I do for fun. It took me over a year to pick up a soldering iron again for any reason and I didn't even have one of those sad failed business stories. It just literally killed my enjoyment of the hobby.
Quote from: EBK on May 23, 2018, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: alanp on May 23, 2018, 04:32:38 PM
Quote from: sjaustin on May 23, 2018, 11:30:28 AM
Buy some prebond wire. Twisting and tinning is for chumps. I always have four colors, and always use them the same way: black is negative, red positive, green is in, yellow is out.
Huh, when I do colourcode wires, it's usually -- black ground, red 9V, yellow for dry signal (In), blue for wet signal (Out).
I used white wire for clean signal (in) and brown wire for dirty signal (out).
Interesting! In my case, I was only able to source those four colors from my preferred wire vendor (and it's the best stuff in the world!!!), so I just stuck with black and red in their standard uses and figured greeN and iN both have Ns, while yellOw and Out both have Os. Ha.
Quote from: EBK on May 23, 2018, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: alanp on May 23, 2018, 04:32:38 PM
Quote from: sjaustin on May 23, 2018, 11:30:28 AM
Buy some prebond wire. Twisting and tinning is for chumps. I always have four colors, and always use them the same way: black is negative, red positive, green is in, yellow is out.
Huh, when I do colourcode wires, it's usually -- black ground, red 9V, yellow for dry signal (In), blue for wet signal (Out).
I used white wire for clean signal (in) and brown wire for dirty signal (out).
I do white for in, black for out, green for ground and red for power (I've done it other ways, but the tone is wayyyyy better this way ;) )
Quote from: dan.schumaker on May 23, 2018, 06:05:01 PM
Quote from: EBK on May 23, 2018, 04:41:00 PM
Quote from: alanp on May 23, 2018, 04:32:38 PM
Quote from: sjaustin on May 23, 2018, 11:30:28 AM
Buy some prebond wire. Twisting and tinning is for chumps. I always have four colors, and always use them the same way: black is negative, red positive, green is in, yellow is out.
Huh, when I do colourcode wires, it's usually -- black ground, red 9V, yellow for dry signal (In), blue for wet signal (Out).
I used white wire for clean signal (in) and brown wire for dirty signal (out).
I do white for in, black for out, green for ground and red for power (I've done it other ways, but the tone is wayyyyy better this way ;) )
QFT. Red is powwa. Green is earthy. White is clean and black is the dirty signal.
All the advice so far is stellar.
Mine is SLOW DOWN. Enjoy the process and don't rush just to hear what it sounds like. Clean. Double check. Triple check. Measure components. Quadruple check. Buy quality components from reliable suppliers and don't waste your time trying to save a few pennies - not remotely worth it.
Quote from: Haberdasher on May 23, 2018, 04:04:23 AM
Get some of the Barry's Best wire from guitarpcb.
Try out some 63/37 solder unless you really have to use lead free. Always wash your hands after you use it.
If your iron ever slips out of your hand while soldering, ignore that innate reflex that tells you you're quick enough to catch it before it hits the floor.
On the other hand, if the iron is heading towards your crotch while wearing thin shorts by all means burn those fingers and catch it.
Quote from: EBK on May 23, 2018, 01:14:11 PM
When your pedal doesn't work, your first debugging steps should be: 1) make sure your power source is plugged in, 2) make sure your guitar is actually plugged into the pedal input, and 3) make sure the amp is actually plugged into the pedal output.
I've seen lots of combinations/variations of those simple things going wrong and wasting time.
4) when done with first 3 make sure the volume knob on the guitar is rolled open ::)
Quote from: TNblueshawk on May 23, 2018, 06:43:08 PM
Quote from: Haberdasher on May 23, 2018, 04:04:23 AM
Get some of the Barry's Best wire from guitarpcb.
Try out some 63/37 solder unless you really have to use lead free. Always wash your hands after you use it.
If your iron ever slips out of your hand while soldering, ignore that innate reflex that tells you you're quick enough to catch it before it hits the floor.
On the other hand, if the iron is heading towards your crotch while wearing thin shorts by all means burn those fingers and catch it.
Right! That's why I always wear jeans or at least sweats when I solder now :o
Never solder naked. There's a good tip.
Quote from: Haberdasher on May 23, 2018, 07:13:44 PM
Quote from: TNblueshawk on May 23, 2018, 06:43:08 PM
Quote from: Haberdasher on May 23, 2018, 04:04:23 AM
Get some of the Barry's Best wire from guitarpcb.
Try out some 63/37 solder unless you really have to use lead free. Always wash your hands after you use it.
If your iron ever slips out of your hand while soldering, ignore that innate reflex that tells you you're quick enough to catch it before it hits the floor.
On the other hand, if the iron is heading towards your crotch while wearing thin shorts by all means burn those fingers and catch it.
Right! That's why I always wear jeans or at least sweats when I solder now :o
Never solder naked. There's a good tip.
Never shall the two tips meet :o
Quote from: alanp on May 23, 2018, 04:22:30 AM
Hmmm...
BUY A WIRE STRIPPER.
Stop trying to half-ass it, stripping the ends of wires with your side-cutters. Uncrack your wallet, Alan, let the moths out, and buy some goddamn strippers.
Can't stress this one enough, i use electrician ones as they're the only kind i have. Stripping wires with side cutters can be a pain as you may score into the wire accidentally which makes it break easily when your routing the wires
Quote from: sonnyboy27 on May 23, 2018, 12:37:00 PM
When you add SIP sockets, break off the amount you need and then stick them back on the remaining stick of sockets to space them out and make it easier to solder them in place. Once you get a couple of sockets in place, continue putting the individual sockets on the strip and then steady that strip by inserting part of it into the sockets you previously soldered to the board in order to steady it. This is a confusing thing to put in words, but there's a picture showing it in the build process article on my blog. http://prentisseffects.blogspot.com/2017/06/getting-started-build-procedure.html (http://prentisseffects.blogspot.com/2017/06/getting-started-build-procedure.html)
That's a clever little hack. Kudos. Thanks for sharing it--I'm definitely going to try that one out. Maybe I won't have to howl profanities while trying to seat a single SIL socket in place again.
Was cool to see the Barry's wire tip come up a few times. I LOVE the stuff. I suppose we could (or likely have) figured out where he gets it but it's nice to give back to the food chain whenever possible.
The cheap little parts tester is a front line to my work flow. Every part gets tested before it gets stuffed into the board. My build accuracy has improved to near perfection and hinges pretty much on my own dumb mistakes, which I'm pretty much at ninja level of goof ups. One of my recents was trying to get the effect working with a non working cable.
A rock-it board is next up. Just a terminal strip on a piece of wood with an aluminum "L" bracket to hold a pair of jacks, a power connector, an LED and a bypass switch. It's easy and has lots of space. If it fails here it goes to my fancy-schmancy test rig with tone generator etc...
Luckily my soldering iron mishaps have been rare. I once grabbed the wrong end (I ALWAYS use a stand now), and once dipped the iron in a glass of beer instead of the cleaning sponge. Still drank it...
For me, the most difficult / trying part of building is holding things in place. I mean holding components when you flip the board over to solder, holding pots, jacks, switches and wires while you try to solder one thing to another, oh and holding enclosure and drill when you drill. So the more thought you put into making simple jigs to hold your PCB, pots, wires, etc - the less frustration you will have, the more your parts will hold in place, and therefore the less your parts will move around and cause cold solder joints. Which are a major cause of build failures and problems in the field.
Take your time when building and use a schematic and thought process ("follow the signal and the current") when debugging. Most of my simple builds that don't fire up right away are something like a missed joint: a short pin that barely sticks through the board that I forgot to solder, etc.
If you can, read a book (I recommend Horowitz and Hill's "The Art of Electronics" - a cheap older edition will be fine) or websites on how basic passive, transistor, and op-amp circuits work. Understanding and troubleshooting will become much easier.
Don't push down on a conductor to move it with your finger while holding a soldering iron on the other side of the PCB.
Don't use metal DC sockets.
You're not as good at soldering as you think you are.
Don't spend 10 hours straight stuffing and soldering a PCB and expect it to work.
Don't put a movie on with subtitles while your working on a pedal
With respect to sockets for transistors I'm all over the place. I first used sockets for all of them thinking I might come back and change them out to change the sound. About 20 pedals in, who am I kidding. I'm not opening up the pedal to do that. Never have actually. So I began to solder them all in. The upside is they never come loose or I get a bad connection on a leg. Then I decided why not solder just the middle leg. This is enough to hold the other 2 in, yet if for some oddball reason I did decide to change one out it would be super easy to just desolder the one leg and replace. I've pretty much just stayed with that last philosophy.
I know this, if I gigged there is no way I wouldn't at least have one leg soldered for fear of one coming loose.
Invaluable tools for the trade:
1) GOOD soldering station (I recommend the Weller WESD51)
2) Unibit!!
3) SOLDER SUCKER (Didn't see this one mentioned)
Tips from my years:
1) ALWAYS.. ALWAYS double check component values, orientation, and voltages just before installing. I do this religiously and I haven't had a build issue (due to parts) in years!
2) You MUST do a few PnP layouts. Although fabbed PCBs are much easier, in my opinion... you are not a true DIY'er unless you have done a few PnP transfers.
3) Sharpen your soldering skills. It WILL save you money! A lot of people like to push 3PDT boards. If you can solder properly, it is actually LESS work to just solder directly to the switch. This also applies to stopping cold solder joints, loose connections, etc.
4) DO NOT TURN IT INTO A BUSINESS! Unless you are willing to eat money and take losses constantly, just do what most everyone else does. Sell the occasional build to fund your habit.
5) Ebay is the LAST place to get what you need. Cough up the extra few pennies and buy from a reputable distributor/manufacturer. Ebay should be the last resort!
6) Lastly.... CHALLENGE YOURSELF. Don't get stuck in the rut of building your 355th Fuzz pedal. Expand out. Look for new projects. Don't be afraid to try different projects. Do some BBD-based projects. Explore the bigger circuits. Doing this will keep things fresh and interesting. If you run into problems... SOMEONE has done it already. Post up the required info and ask questions. THAT'S WHAT WE ARE HERE FOR!! ;)
Oh yeah.... Definitely try Brian's projects as well as some of the others on here. If not for Brian.. we all wouldn't be here! Support the cause 8)
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on May 24, 2018, 03:57:13 PM
3) Sharpen your soldering skills. It WILL save you money! A lot of people like to push 3PDT boards. If you can solder properly, it is actually LESS work to just solder directly to the switch. This also applies to stopping cold solder joints, loose connections, etc.
Agreed on this -- I find that 3PDT mini-pcbs make more work.
And to get anywhere with this hobby, your soldering skills will need to be up to scratch, in the same way that you need to be able to ride a bicycle for people to let you loose on a velodrome :)
Quote from: alanp on May 24, 2018, 06:29:52 PM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on May 24, 2018, 03:57:13 PM
3) Sharpen your soldering skills. It WILL save you money! A lot of people like to push 3PDT boards. If you can solder properly, it is actually LESS work to just solder directly to the switch. This also applies to stopping cold solder joints, loose connections, etc.
Agreed on this -- I find that 3PDT mini-pcbs make more work.
Hmm. I'd love to hear more about this. I am a competent solderer, but I still find them helpful, particularly if you take advantage of the board mounted LED option that most of them have. How do you find it makes more work?
Quote from: sjaustin on May 24, 2018, 06:45:03 PM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on May 24, 2018, 03:57:13 PM
3) Sharpen your soldering skills. It WILL save you money! A lot of people like to push 3PDT boards. If you can solder properly, it is actually LESS work to just solder directly to the switch. This also applies to stopping cold solder joints, loose connections, etc.
Hmm. I'd love to hear more about this. I am a competent solderer, but I still find them helpful, particularly if you take advantage of the board mounted LED option that most of them have. How do you find it makes more work?
Well, if you are soldering the wiring to just the 3PDT, you have 9 solder points max.
If you use an adapter, now you have to still solder those 9 points PLUS the wire connections to the adapter board.
More work ;)
I think the allure of the adapter board is more for esthetics than functionality. People think they "look nicer."