Man, what a trainwreck:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1387224
The first 12-13 pages were a couple months ago, and then day before yesterday it exploded with new drama.
TL;DR -- Some guy from England started up a "pie and mash" shop and allegedly ripped a bunch of people off, then went to Australia and started a "custom" guitar company (TMG Guitars). Got popular with the P&W scene and sold a lot of $5000+ tele/strat clones. Started selling $300 pedals. Took 3x the amount of time quoted to deliver most stuff (allegedly). Moved to California. Continued with not delivering on time (if at all), allegedly. Turns out a string of people on three continents claim to have been ripped off by this guy (paid, but did not get anything; or got sub-quality product). Then it comes out the that the fully custom guitars are actually partscasters, and they don't really do anything but assemble from cheap C&C bodies/necks and Chinese no-name pickups. And all under the guise of being a friend of Jesus.
Makes the Freekish Blues incident seem pretty small-scale. Allegedly. ;D
Crazy. With the market as it is, it's so saturated that it's hard for many people to get noticed...many people are doing different variations of this "pedal building", some doing mods, some using the same pcbs as other companies, some cloning circuits, some using unique parts and circuits--so it's a shame the scammer did get noticed.
I agree that some of the P&W crowd is pretty quick to jump on a bandwagon...I've worked with groups as a sound guy and they all seem to have aligned with JHS pretty quickly. I've said it before: Church is the biggest music business in the south and many places. But it is a shame that anyone got scammed. Research the company before sending them your money
DAMN YOU CJ! *shakes fist*
Do you know how long I've managed to avoid that place and it's shenanigans?!
Bah! It's the car crash threads that always draw me back...
;D
Wow. Days Of Our Lives, relic guitar edition.
But I really, really don't understand the concept of ordering a $3k partcaster (this from a guy who's flipped his entire collection 5 times in the last decade). I mean seriously. You could get a gorgeous Tom Anderson/Suhr for that price, with top quality tonewoods, killer finishes, and great electronics, they will definitely hold their resale (let's face it, if the stories about TMG are true and dude disappears/gets deported/arrested, resale on his guitars are going to be shit) due to both quality and supply. Hell, buy a MJT with a set of BKP's for under a grand if that's the way you want to go, couple hours of assembly and you've got a nice relic caster.
Quote from: juansolo on May 14, 2014, 06:10:13 PM
DAMN YOU CJ! *shakes fist*
(https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6615960832/h9F7625DD/)
$5000 strat and tele clones.
'nuff said.
This is why I have such a hard time plunking my bucks down for a new production just-about-anything these days: I can build it and have it be better quality, more customized, or just more along the exact, anal-retentive lines of what I want (be it a partscaster, pedal, amp, etc).
I still do want a Carvin California Carved top (single cut). Those look awesome and seem to be a great deal. Anyone charging more than that had better have a darn good reason for it (and there are good reasons, but not all people building guitars for big bucks have those good reasons ;) )
Quote from: neiloler on May 14, 2014, 08:52:01 PM
I still do want a Carvin California Carved top (single cut). Those look awesome and seem to be a great deal. Anyone charging more than that had better have a darn good reason for it (and there are good reasons, but not all people building guitars for big bucks have those good reasons ;) )
It's funny, cause I originally put "/(2) Carvins" after Suhr in my original post, but since they've only got one real Fender-ish offering, didn't think it was the right reference.
Building with Carvin is a lot of fun, and the CS series are great. A few pieces of advice:
1) If you're a strap lock guy, order it with the Dunlop strap locks installed. Their stock strap pins use a bigger screw than either the Dunlop or the Schaller units, and you'll either have to plug and fill it or drill new holes.
2) I think their C22 pickups are better suited to their active electronics (like in the DC400); they sounded a little dead in my CS6, but sound killer in my DC400 (my 400 is an all mahogany build as well). If you've got a preferred set of pickups in mind, don't upgrade the pups, just buy a new set with rings, as their pickup rings don't fit anyone elses with the four screw arrangement. You will have to plug and fill those holes, but their hidden under the rings and they're not load bearing, so it's not a big deal.
3) My experience - their flame tops are better than their quilt tops. Not to say that the quilt tops aren't great, it's just that they are less predictable than the flames. I have an orangeburst quilt and an aqua burst quilt. Both look great, but not exactly the way I wanted them to look (the aqua burst is much darker, and there wasn't as much fluidity to the orangeburst). That's the biggest risk/potential for disappointment with them.
4) If you like smooth playing necks, the tung oil neck finish is the way to go. I like it almost as much as the older EBMM gun oil and wax finish.
5) If you buy used, be prepared to give the pots and electronics a thorough cleaning. I've picked up four of them used, and three of them need serious DeOxIt time (i.e. the pots they used to use were pretty lousy).
To summarize
They look great.
They play great.
Stock pickups are OK, but put in your favourite set.
If you decide to go ahead and order one, feel free to PM me if you want some input.
For $1800 (i.e. lots of options) you're going to get pretty close to the equivalent of a 10 top PRS.
90 minutes later... P&W tele. keep us informed.
Haha. That thread is awesome
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I recently sold a partscaster on craigslist, I guess I should have asked A LOT more for it. It had a mint green pickguard after all $$$ :o
How surreal can this get??? I just got sucked I to reading this and I'm up to page 23. It a real train wreck were happening I'd have to ignore it to keep reading this saga.
Sweet read. People are dumb sometimes.
Reminds me of this quote:
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."
― George Carlin
The whole TGP P&W mega-gear thing always feels odd to me, chiefly because for decades, the music group at church consisted of Dad, his Yamaha acoustic, and one or two other singers. Now it's him, his old Yamaha, a Boss AD-5 (I think), singers, and a PA setup. And me, when I'm not on the sound desk.
Quote from: neiloler on May 14, 2014, 08:52:01 PM
This is why I have such a hard time plunking my bucks down for a new production just-about-anything these days: I can build it and have it be better quality, more customized, or just more along the exact, anal-retentive lines of what I want (be it a partscaster, pedal, amp, etc).
Same goes for amps and guitars. I know a few awesome guitar and amp builders. For the price of a custom shop LP I could have Jon at Feline make me a completely one off custom guitar to my specs that's even better. Likewise further down the price spectrum, WezV entertains all my damned silly ideas for guitars and turns out some awesome creations. I could have bought a Princeton RI off the shelf, but for a little more I preferred to have MJW build me a head. Better quality parts, better construction, essentially builds it how you want it.
The smaller outfits (essentially us) are where it's at! Support your local custom builders!
Quote from: juansolo on May 15, 2014, 07:31:10 AM
For the price of a custom shop LP I could have Jon at Feline make me a completely one off custom guitar to my specs that's even better.
I agree a lot of the larger brands are over-priced (especially new). The problem with the smaller guys is that if you ever need to sell that guitar/amp, 99% of the buying public doesn't understand the true value of the instrument.
For example, if you approached me with a sweet guitar mad by Jon at Feline, I'd say "Who is Jon and what is Feline?.... Oh, okay. Yeah, $3k is too much for a guitar I've never heard of that was built to your specific interests."
If you never sell gear, then going small-guy custom is the only way to fly. I hope one day to reach a point where I don't have to sell things occasionally to get new things. ;D
Totally understand that. Cleggy got my Feline on the understanding that if he ever sells it I get first refusal ;) But yeah, I got that 2nd hand from Jon for about half what it would cost to have it built. Which was a steal, and if I could justify throwing £3k at a guitar, he'd be the only port of call for me based on just how fapping awesome it was.
You'll be lucky :)
The original owner was Thorpy on the BYOC forum, I found out recently. Small world.
(http://marauder.dtdns.net/guitars/lion.jpg)
Quote from: culturejam on May 15, 2014, 11:56:45 AM
Quote from: juansolo on May 15, 2014, 07:31:10 AM
For the price of a custom shop LP I could have Jon at Feline make me a completely one off custom guitar to my specs that's even better.
I agree a lot of the larger brands are over-priced (especially new). The problem with the smaller guys is that if you ever need to sell that guitar/amp, 99% of the buying public doesn't understand the true value of the instrument.
For example, if you approached me with a sweet guitar mad by Jon at Feline, I'd say "Who is Jon and what is Feline?.... Oh, okay. Yeah, $3k is too much for a guitar I've never heard of that was built to your specific interests."
If you never sell gear, then going small-guy custom is the only way to fly. I hope one day to reach a point where I don't have to sell things occasionally to get new things. ;D
Yeah, without brand recognition and distribution support, it's definitely harder to move custom built instruments, but truth be told, there's a ceiling to resale on most instruments over about $2k. On my weekly visits to all my favourite guitar haunts, I routinely see most used instruments being sold at a much higher relative discounts if they're original selling price was over about $2400. I guess the logic would be if you're going to pay $3k new or $2700 used, you'll probably by new, so the higher end stuff gets discounted more. Sucks for the first owner, but usually works out for those of us who don't buy new, as usually the guy who shells out a pile of money in the first place is more likely to maintain the instrument/not put stickers on it/not try to home install a Floyd on it (I kid you not, I saw a LP Custom that some dude decided he was going to learn to route on, and the bridge and the posts were visibly out of square with the neck, never mind the extra damage he did to the body).
Quote from: GermanCdn on May 15, 2014, 01:15:35 PM
I kid you not, I saw a LP Custom that some dude decided he was going to learn to route on, and the bridge and the posts were visibly out of square with the neck, never mind the extra damage he did to the body.
Well... a fool and his money are easily parted... ::)
Unbelievable. How is it that the shady guys who overprice their product and take all payment in advance will consistently shoot to the top, over and over and over again, but so many of the good guys get overlooked? There have got to be 10 honest builders for every one of these types, but it always baffles me how much cash these types of guys run off with.
It's people who just want to make a buck as quickly as possible and don't give a shit about anyone else. Management in large companies are also fraught with people like this. It's the reason I quit. It is possible to make money and have some integrity also. You just don't make as much or make what you do as fast. Nicer place to be, nicer people to deal with.
Yeah, but like... the gullibility. The complete and utter gullibility of the buyers. You'd think that by now, the people on TGP would have a retching aversion to anyone who asks for full payment up-front. So many stories of them either not getting anything (Farndurk, TMG, T1M in a bad year, and many more) or else getting a product that turns out to be largely counterfeit and extremely overpriced (Freekish Blues, Tone Monk, and TMG with his Musikraft partscasters).
A fool and his money are soon parted, but man, imagine if you could tap into that market of fools and actually get them to buy a quality product. I guess they wouldn't be fools anymore though, so Catch-22 and all.
There are a LOT of gullible people out there. Not just on TGP, just generally.
I am so ghetto at my church with my G&L Legacy and silverface Fender Champ.
Quote from: atreidesheir on May 15, 2014, 09:48:30 PM
I am so ghetto at my church with my G&L Legacy and silverface Fender Champ.
I hear ya. I'd also like to point out that I've picked up most of my G&L collection (all US instruments) used for less than the price of a single Bro-caster. I feel like such a poseur.
Quote from: juansolo on May 15, 2014, 07:07:20 PM
It's people who just want to make a buck as quickly as possible and don't give a shit about anyone else. Management in large companies are also fraught with people like this. It's the reason I quit. It is possible to make money and have some integrity also. You just don't make as much or make what you do as fast. Nicer place to be, nicer people to deal with.
And in most cases, honest and fair business is more likely to be sustainable over a long time. Greed can make people short sighted. They make money quick, but it eventually burns down.
Quote from: atreidesheir on May 15, 2014, 09:48:30 PM
I am so ghetto at my church with my G&L Legacy and silverface Fender Champ.
Nope, that's the setup that's right.
If I hadn't traded for and built my own rig, I'd still be playing a less than $1000 setup Sundays. I actually think that's the way it should be!
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on May 15, 2014, 10:02:56 PM
Quote from: atreidesheir on May 15, 2014, 09:48:30 PM
I am so ghetto at my church with my G&L Legacy and silverface Fender Champ.
Nope, that's the setup that's right.
If I hadn't traded for and built my own rig, I'd still be playing a less than $1000 setup Sundays. I actually think that's the way it should be!
Jacob
I tend to agree with this. There definitely seems to be an unhealthy focus shift among some of these players. Just in terms of the music alone, there is a lot of very mediocre music being made on very esoteric (or at least outrageously expensive) gear.
Quote from: jkokura on May 15, 2014, 10:02:56 PM
If I hadn't traded for and built my own rig, I'd still be playing a less than $1000 setup Sundays. I actually think that's the way it should be!
I also agree. Kinda reminds me of that scene in The Last Crusade when Indy has to choose which of the cups is the Holy Grail. ;)
Quote from: atreidesheir on May 15, 2014, 09:48:30 PM
I am so ghetto at my church with my G&L Legacy and silverface Fender Champ.
I play a '79 silverface champ on Sundays with a partscaster tele ;)
Josh
'82 silverface champ and partscaster tele here 😉
Squier affinity tele w/'52 RI pickups and good pots/switch, or Agile AD2300 into home-built tweed deluxe
I want to hear you guys now.
Once upon a time I once told a girlfriend a bar band was going to be good when I saw them set up a Fender Rhodes. Sometimes you see a piece of gear and you know it is going to sound just right.
It's not the cheapest piece of gear, but I feel like I can throw just about anything at my '65 Vibrolux and it'll sound great.
Quote from: alanp on May 15, 2014, 06:51:33 AM
The whole TGP P&W mega-gear thing always feels odd to me [...]
The whole P&W crew seems to have become the cork sniffing hipster crowd. And they like to try and bargain down, since it's for their ministry. Least ways around here.
They have gear from builders you've never heard of... and they had it before it was cool to have gear from people you never heard of. Could you install/repair X for free since It'd be the right thing to do for your part in the ministry...
/rant
As someone else said... a fool and his money.
I'm sorry but the 'equipping the world for worship' banner rings alarm bells for me (ie. cheapening and using peoples faith as a marketing means/gimmick).
I get the impression there is a bit of naivety with the P+W guys on Gearpage that if someone is a devout christian, they must therefore be a good egg.
The two do not go hand to hand in my experience (ie. there are douchebag dicks in all walks and persausions of life).
Quote from: raulduke on May 16, 2014, 11:24:53 AM
I'm sorry but the 'equipping the world for worship' banner rings alarm bells for me (ie. cheapening and using peoples faith as a marketing means/gimmick).
I get the impression there is a bit of naivety with the P+W guys on Gearpage that if someone is a devout christian, they must therefore be a good egg.
The two do not go hand to hand in my experience (ie. there are douchebag dicks in all walks and persausions of life).
Yep... and wolves in sheep's clothing as well - people who see the $$$ to be made catering to the P&W crowd, and so they play that card. This TMG guy appears to be a serial scammer across 3 continents, only difference with this latest gig is that he drops the occasional "God bless" in his messages. He certainly knows the market.
Reminds me of the C.S. Lewis quote: "Of all bad men, religious bad men are the worst."
quotes, you say?!
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money
trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and
pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side."
The good Dr knew the score!
Quote from: Leevibethere is a lot of very mediocre music being made on very esoteric (or at least outrageously expensive) gear.
Perfectly describes my efforts as a musician ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: LaceSensor on May 16, 2014, 04:13:08 PM
Quote from: Leevibethere is a lot of very mediocre music being made on very esoteric (or at least outrageously expensive) gear.
Perfectly describes my efforts as a musician ;D ;D ;D
Haha! Hey, as long as the gear serves the music and the music serves a purpose. We're all aspiring to be better in our craft as builders and as musicians. Regarding P&W, the purpose is a high one IMO, and sometimes that purpose becomes obscured.
As with Jacob, most of my gear is either cheap, built by me, or I traded for it. Even with that, I feel like I'm growing into it more than out of it. I would like to move on from the Squier though. For that, I have my sites set on something built south of the US border. :)
I out of the loop up here in the GWN, P+W... Pagans + Wizards?
P&W = Praise and Worship, church music groups
Quote from: raulduke on May 16, 2014, 11:24:53 AM
I'm sorry but the 'equipping the world for worship' banner rings alarm bells for me (ie. cheapening and using peoples faith as a marketing means/gimmick).
I get the impression there is a bit of naivety with the P+W guys on Gearpage that if someone is a devout christian, they must therefore be a good egg.
The two do not go hand to hand in my experience (ie. there are douchebag dicks in all walks and persausions of life).
Not wanting to get into religion. But anyone claims to be a devout ANYTHING sends up warning bells to me... It infers an abandonment of logic and reason in exchange for belief in a concept that cannot in any way be quantified. Best steered way away from.
Quote from: davent on May 16, 2014, 04:27:31 PM
I out of the loop up here in the GWN, P+W... Pagans + Wizards?
Now that'd be far more interesting! ;D
Quote from: juansolo on May 16, 2014, 04:37:56 PM
Quote from: raulduke on May 16, 2014, 11:24:53 AM
I'm sorry but the 'equipping the world for worship' banner rings alarm bells for me (ie. cheapening and using peoples faith as a marketing means/gimmick).
I get the impression there is a bit of naivety with the P+W guys on Gearpage that if someone is a devout christian, they must therefore be a good egg.
The two do not go hand to hand in my experience (ie. there are douchebag dicks in all walks and persausions of life).
Not wanting to get into religion. But anyone claims to be a devout ANYTHING sends up warning bells to me... It infers an abandonment of logic and reason in exchange for belief in a concept that cannot in any way be quantified. Best steered way away from.
I don't want to open a can of worms... but I would disagree.
I'm not religious in any way, shape, or form. However, some of my relatives are
very religious and they are some of the nicest, most honest, people you could meet.
I think having faith, and abondoning logic and reason, do not go hand in hand. There are certainly guys on this forum that I am aware of that are very religious, and they seem pretty damn smart and reasonable to me.
I stand by my comment that there are nice guys and dicks in all walks, facets and persuasions of life...
I'm not saying that religionists can't be very nice people. They can. Very nice indeed. But they can also be hugely intolerant, which doesn't sit well with me. Regardless of which deity they worship.
I suppose it comes down to the 'people can be dicks' rule.
Quote from: raulduke on May 16, 2014, 04:46:12 PM
I think having faith, and abondoning logic and reason, do not go hand in hand. There are certainly guys on this forum that I am aware of that are very religious, and they seem pretty damn smart and reasonable to me.
I think this is very true. Having lived in the South now for half my life, I can attest to the fact that the loudest voices tend to be the least reasonable and frankly, quite stupid. I believe there are legions of religious folk who are quite open to a more progressive point of view when it comes to integrating their beliefs with contemporary society. As an atheist, most of my exposure to contemporary religious thought comes from the media and that proves to be one of the worst and most biased sources possible because it's mostly idiots being controversial for its own sake, ratings, or to win votes. Jesus
don't want you to be rich, discriminatory nor intolerant, as it were.
On topic, I'm also extremely wary of anyone who uses religion or faith as a marketing tool to sell anything. But, I also think many people of faith are keen to this even though others fall prey to it. Just my rare $.02 on the topic of religion.
I know this forum doesn't have written rules about discussing politics, religion, etc., but can we please try not do so? I come here to get away from stuff like that. And John, you can't just make a comment about a controversial topic and then expect no one else to reply.
EDIT: actually, I can just stop reading this thread, I think. Never mind. Carry on.
Apologies.
You don't need to see his identification...
He can go about his business...
Move along...
;)
Let's get back to the train wreck! First thread locked at 62 pages/923 posts. Thread part deux currently on it's second page. Not that I'm paying much attention. ;)
midwayfair has a made a good point. Let's just keep it on topic of TMG and TGP...after all that is far more entertaining and only slightly more productive than arguing about religion or politics.
The worst part about the TMG discussion is.......it's going to drive me to buy an MJT kit, which I've been fighting the urge to do for so long.
It doesn't help that I just scored a new set of BKP '55 Blackguard pickups, which are just sitting on my build desk saying "I need to be in a different guitar than what's currently in the arsenal."
When the tax return comes, I think a heavily relic'd butterscotch blackguard is in order.....
The real winner in all of this is going to be MJT, I think. They are getting a ton of eyeballs but zero negative sentiment in the wake of this epic intercontinental shitstorm.
I have a MJT strat body waiting for a neck... Maybe I should sell it for mad money 8)
It'll be interesting to see the interview they just recorded to address all of this.
It never hurts that MJT's product is well-done. He delivers the goods on body and neck finishes.
I am simply waiting for the announcement Taylor/Antonio has checked himself into Rehab. That is how most bad behavior is dealt when the media is involved these days.
Quote from: juansolo on May 16, 2014, 04:37:56 PM
Not wanting to get into religion. But anyone claims to be a devout ANYTHING sends up warning bells to me... It infers an abandonment of logic and reason in exchange for belief in a concept that cannot in any way be quantified. Best steered way away from.
I hate to argue with you John, as I tend not to be argumentative when I have to, but I think that's a fairly narrow view of the idea of being devout. After all, one could be a devout Vegetarian, which is a personal choice, not an abandonment of logic and reason. Being devout is following strictly, not blindly.
"I do no think that word means what you think it means"
Edit = I should have read the last page.
Jacob
I loved the post saying the interview video is not released because MJT has not finished it yet.
As a member of the P&W community this def makes me feel :-\
Quote from: jkokura on May 16, 2014, 09:31:13 PMone could be a devout Vegetarian, which is a personal choice, not an abandonment of logic and reason.
People who renounce steak & bacon have logic and reason?!
Madness I tell you!
;)
I'm a devout bacon and taco eater.
Quote from: juansolo on May 17, 2014, 07:58:02 AM
Quote from: jkokura on May 16, 2014, 09:31:13 PMone could be a devout Vegetarian, which is a personal choice, not an abandonment of logic and reason.
People who renounce steak & bacon have logic and reason?!
Madness I tell you!
;)
Quote from: rullywowr on May 17, 2014, 11:35:01 AM
I'm a devout bacon and taco eater.
Me, I can't I can't usually get them cause my
girlfriend wife is a vegetarian, which pretty much means I'm a vegetarian. I do love the taste of a good...
Quote from: Clayford on May 17, 2014, 12:55:56 PM
Quote from: juansolo on May 17, 2014, 07:58:02 AM
Quote from: jkokura on May 16, 2014, 09:31:13 PMone could be a devout Vegetarian, which is a personal choice, not an abandonment of logic and reason.
People who renounce steak & bacon have logic and reason?!
Madness I tell you!
;)
Quote from: rullywowr on May 17, 2014, 11:35:01 AM
I'm a devout bacon and taco eater.
Me, I can't I can't usually get them cause my girlfriend wife is a vegetarian, which pretty much means I'm a vegetarian. I do love the taste of a good...
Say what again! I double dare you..........
Quote from: pickdropper on May 17, 2014, 03:03:43 PM
Quote from: Clayford on May 17, 2014, 12:55:56 PM
Quote from: juansolo on May 17, 2014, 07:58:02 AM
Quote from: jkokura on May 16, 2014, 09:31:13 PMone could be a devout Vegetarian, which is a personal choice, not an abandonment of logic and reason.
People who renounce steak & bacon have logic and reason?!
Madness I tell you!
;)
Quote from: rullywowr on May 17, 2014, 11:35:01 AM
I'm a devout bacon and taco eater.
Me, I can't I can't usually get them cause my girlfriend wife is a vegetarian, which pretty much means I'm a vegetarian. I do love the taste of a good...
Say what again! I double dare you..........
Mmm, that's a tasty burger! :)
I love Mace Windu quotes.
So they say no publicity is bad publicity. I'm wondering if this video is going to be a 47 minute ad designed to capitalize on that concept. That assumes that there is a video. There's definitely publicity, but it's hard to imagine it will end well for TMG or their customers.
The video is up!
OK my comment on this.
EVEN IF the outcome is they:
1 - Communicate with everyone a timeline
2 - Complete the build to time
3 - Repair or replace all defective pedals
4 - Get 100% back on track
I cant imagine why ANYONE would buy ANY of their products.
Surely, this whole situation has massively devalued the products they (sporadically) put out...
If I was gonna buy a one off hand made thing, Id probably go
http://www.danocaster.com/danocaster/Home.html
a friend has one of their 52 style teles, it was $1800 and plays / looks / feels out of this world
Theres far too many choices to go with shysters like this guy. The video did not convince me of their true intentions.
This has all got a bit nutty hasn't it :-\
Next he'll be posting a video of him eating a nutella and nail polish sandwich... :)
I didn't watch the video but is there a card table in it?
I watched the full video last night and I do see how people can construe facts and how conversations like the one at TGP can become like wild fire. What it all comes down to in my mind is Taylor did not communicate. No communication was given to the people that have been waiting days, months & years for a product.
I would never pay $3000 for a guitar since 1) this is not a profession for me & 2) I do not have a large amount of money to lay down on a custom built guitar.
Cody
I can't imagine spending 43 minutes watching that douche talk. I got like 38 seconds in and was sick of that dummy.
In my mind it would've been more effective/efficient to not take 44 minutes to talk about... whatever.
Instead I would've just jumped on the orders that need to be filled, fill them, make them awesome, don't read anything online and just get the product in a good shape and get it out. That is if he's legit. I don't really care if he is either way cause I don't have money tied up in any of his stuff, personally I think that the whole thing smells of drama and it doesn't smell good.
Quote from: SalvageAudio on May 19, 2014, 09:08:49 PM
In my mind it would've been more effective/efficient to not take 44 minutes to talk about... whatever.
Instead I would've just jumped on the orders that need to be filled, fill them, make them awesome, don't read anything online and just get the product in a good shape and get it out. That is if he's legit. I don't really care if he is either way cause I don't have money tied up in any of his stuff, personally I think that the whole thing smells of drama and it doesn't smell good.
I disagree about not needing the video, a statement is the first step of the communication. Then he set a goal on record, lets just hope he sticks to it.
Cody
Those P&W folk will believe almost anything.
Quote from: Beedoola on May 24, 2014, 03:22:44 PM
Those P&W folk will believe almost anything.
/quickly registers JCFX ;)
OK.... What is P&W? :-[
Praise and worship, a community that seems to supply him with an endless army of sycophants.
Quote from: juansolo on May 24, 2014, 05:31:17 PM
Quote from: Beedoola on May 24, 2014, 03:22:44 PM
Those P&W folk will believe almost anything.
/quickly registers JCFX ;)
I'll follow soon with SOG Custom Guitars...... ;)
Paul
Im working on the Faith Booster right now. Good news is, if you order now you should have a youtube video explanation as to why 12 months have passed and I still haven't delivered.
Seriously though, if you need to make a 45 min video full of excuses something's wrong here...
Quote from: chromesphere on May 25, 2014, 11:33:50 AM
Im working on the Faith Booster right now. [...]
I see you you did there. ;D
Quote from: chromesphere on May 25, 2014, 11:33:50 AM
Im working on the Faith Booster right now.
Paul, just take my money now!!! haha!
Quote from: chromesphere on May 25, 2014, 11:33:50 AM
Im working on the Faith Booster right now.
This should actually be a thing. If not, I'm gonna use it for an upcoming booster project.
Looks like Taylor and crew have packed up and left the States, leaving everyone owed in the lurch, according to the latest speculation on TGP.
After looking over all this, if you have $3,000 to dump on any guitar, go with one you can hold in your hands and play first. It doesn't matter how custom or how expensive a guitar is, sometimes a cheap Squier or Epiphone will play better. One of the best-playing guitars I've ever had was a Sheraton II that I got for $350 with the hardshell case. It played just as nice as my friend's vintage Gibson ES-335 that was worth 10x my Epiphone.
Now that I think about it, why did I sell that guitar?.....
And now Rogue Guitar Shop has bought TMG.
And the CEOs mom signed up for TGP to tell all the haters that they are wrong (but not after a dozen posts where she pretended she was a satisfied TMG customer).
I can't make this stuff up. Best comment though was that they should hire Vertex Mason as marketting director. I put 4-1 odds on that happening, as this can only get weirder.
#mymomsaysimsuccesful
It really crossed over into surreal.
The interesting thing is how many fans they still seem to have. Even if they start running their business in a standard fashion, all of the parts can be purchased easily and made into a guitar for a lot less than $3500.
My brain is melted. You just can't stop clicking "next page"... over and over and over.
It is pretty amazing
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: pickdropper on September 19, 2014, 10:23:07 PM
Even if they start running their business in a standard fashion, all of the parts can be purchased easily and made into a guitar for a lot less than $3500.
Sure, but can you really put a value on labor? ;D
Quote from: culturejam on September 20, 2014, 12:47:48 AM
Quote from: pickdropper on September 19, 2014, 10:23:07 PM
Even if they start running their business in a standard fashion, all of the parts can be purchased easily and made into a guitar for a lot less than $3500.
Sure, but can you really put a value on labor? ;D
Yeah, I think the real catch there was even mentioned by a former associate of TGP's. If they are really paying $1500 in parts for each one, adding their labor and then leaving room for their dealers to make a profit, they are going to have a very difficult time being competitive in that market.
I can't imagine their competition (like Suhr or Tom Anderson) pays anywhere NEAR $1500 in parts for one of their guitars, mostly because they do it in house. Add to the fact that they are known parts that anybody can buy directly from the parts suppliers and you have a very difficult proposition there.
Nash does something similar, but I don't know if he has dealers. His prices are certainly more reasonable and he's very upfront about what they are and what he adds to the mix. I think he does his own aging as well, which TMG doesn't.
That idiot 'Headshok' needs to just keep his idiot thought to himself.
That is all! Haha
Dang. I just got to the end of the fourth thread in all of its weird glory only to find the link to the side thread that is 36 pages long. I can't not read it, but holy moly!
This has now clearly turned into a rubber necking extravanganza for me as I want to look away, but I just can't. And it just keeps getting weirder the further you go.
http://jeremyctalbot.blogspot.ca/2014/10/tmg-story-from-inside.html?m=1
I kinda hope this story is not legit, because if you traded a '56 Les Paul to a known fraudster, I have a hard time feeling sorry for you, but nonetheless, it would appear that it became part of the RGS purchase of TMG.
I'm waiting for the post when someone tracks him down IRL, gives him a hiding, and posts it. If I had an original '56, the only way anyone would get to measure it would be with me standing there with a sharp hunting knife, extremely suspicious.
Quote from: GermanCdn on October 07, 2014, 09:48:16 PM
I kinda hope this story is not legit, because if you traded a '56 Les Paul to a known fraudster, I have a hard time feeling sorry for you, but nonetheless, it would appear that it became part of the RGS purchase of TMG.
I can't believe the general grammar is so bad...and yet the guy correctly uses the oft-maligned and rarely understood semicolon. ;D
Quote from: culturejam on October 08, 2014, 03:40:16 AM
I can't believe the general grammar is so bad...and yet the guy correctly uses the oft-maligned and rarely understood semicolon. ;D
I believe I am one of the common perpetrators of that misuse ;)
I know I should feel sorry for the Les Paul guy'n'all.... but why would you TRADE a 1956 LP for ANY guitars?
If you desperately need cash fair enough. Sell it.
But trading it for a bunch of posh Fender clones that obviously have a far lower intrinsic value (he even helped assemble the f*ckin things). Why Lord Why?!?!
I imagine this Taylor character can sniff out someone ripe for the scamming like a shark can sniff out its prey in the ocean.
Also, these con artists/scam merchants seem to have an ability to charm and make people believe whatever they want them to believe.
This happened in the village I live in a number of years ago. You really couldn't make it up:
'A former bartender has been found guilty of kidnapping and theft in an elaborate spy con that lasted 10 years.
Robert Hendy-Freegard, 34, of Blyth, Nottinghamshire, conned his victims out of a potential £1m by persuading them they were being hunted by the IRA. '
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4114640.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4114640.stm)
I'm thinking that if he ever gets his "Ambrose" guitars he's going to be more stuck than ever. These are going to be the reminders of his grandfather? I do feel genuinely bad for him, but man. How many worst parts to a story can there be?
Quote from: Leevibe on October 08, 2014, 12:55:50 PM
I'm thinking that if he ever gets his "Ambrose" guitars he's going to be more stuck than ever. These are going to be the reminders of his grandfather? I do feel genuinely bad for him, but man. How many worst parts to a story can there be?
Hopefully there's something in the contract that prevents them from rebadging a Squire as "Ambrose".
Quote from: raulduke on October 08, 2014, 08:32:17 AM
Quote from: culturejam on October 08, 2014, 03:40:16 AM
I can't believe the general grammar is so bad...and yet the guy correctly uses the oft-maligned and rarely understood semicolon. ;D
I believe I am one of the common perpetrators of that misuse ;)
I know I should feel sorry for the Les Paul guy'n'all.... but why would you TRADE a 1956 LP for ANY guitars?
If you desperately need cash fair enough. Sell it.
But trading it for a bunch of posh Fender clones that obviously have a far lower intrinsic value (he even helped assemble the f*ckin things). Why Lord Why?!?!
I imagine this Taylor character can sniff out someone ripe for the scamming like a shark can sniff out its prey in the ocean.
This is the part I have hard time understanding. Granted, a good con can convince you of anything but if you already know that you have something worth about 35K, how can you possibly feel that swapping it for four guitars allegedly valued at 3-4K would be a fair trade? If you really needed the money, you sell that thing for cold hard cash. If you don't, you hold onto that sucker as long as you can.
Quote from: GermanCdn on May 14, 2014, 06:19:17 PM
Wow. Days Of Our Lives, relic guitar edition.
All that's left is for the real Antonio/Taylor to wake up from a coma and realize that his evil twin has stolen his identity.
Quote from: stellablue on October 08, 2014, 03:21:49 PM
All that's left is for the real Antonio/Taylor to wake up from a coma and realize that his evil twin has stolen his identity.
Wow, we've attracted stellablue to the forum. Nice. ;D
I did notice this thread is about the 5th listing when you google "TMG guitars". We're almost famous!
Also, why in the world would a Les Paul need to be destroyed in order to "clone" it? The general specs of the 1956 guitars are well known. What am I missing here? Or was that just part of the con?
Quote from: culturejam on October 08, 2014, 03:28:55 PM
Also, why in the world would a Les Paul need to be destroyed in order to "clone" it? The general specs of the 1956 guitars are well known. What am I missing here? Or was that just part of the con?
Part of the con. If the story is true, the guy from RGS got the guitar intact as part of the deal.
Quote from: culturejam on October 08, 2014, 03:27:02 PM
Quote from: stellablue on October 08, 2014, 03:21:49 PM
All that's left is for the real Antonio/Taylor to wake up from a coma and realize that his evil twin has stolen his identity.
Wow, we've attracted stellablue to the forum. Nice. ;D
I did notice this thread is about the 5th listing when you google "TMG guitars". We're almost famous!
I saw this thread as I was looking at mudbunny builds. You can't say shit on TGP without pissing off Ward Cleaver or one of the other mods. During my most recent 6 month suspension I started building some pedals. I started with Jack Orman's SOS. I have about 6 drive and fuzz pedals under my belt. I just received two mudbunny boards. The parts are out for delivery right now. In the past I've just used this site for reference material, but now I guess I'll jump in with both feet. I'll check back on TGP in a few months to see who makes the most accurate klone and find out which overdrive is most transparent.
Quote from: GermanCdn on October 08, 2014, 03:37:51 PM
Quote from: culturejam on October 08, 2014, 03:28:55 PM
Also, why in the world would a Les Paul need to be destroyed in order to "clone" it? The general specs of the 1956 guitars are well known. What am I missing here? Or was that just part of the con?
Part of the con. If the story is true, the guy from RGS got the guitar intact as part of the deal.
I'm really curious how this whole saga affects RGS, if at all. Lots of folks on TGP said they won't give Rogue any business because of the association, but once the coupon codes come out, people tend to buy the cheapest option they can.
A fool and his vintage guitar are soon parted... keep in mind, this guy first engaged with TMG AFTER all the controversy started. I'm glad he's the first to admit that he deserves what he got for being so naive, but still a sad story :(
Quote from: slacker775
This is the part I have hard time understanding. Granted, a good con can convince you of anything but if you already know that you have something worth about 35K, how can you possibly feel that swapping it for four guitars allegedly valued at 3-4K would be a fair trade?
If he was still enamored with Taylor's celebrity status at that point, he probably saw them naming a line of guitars after his grandfather as a better legacy than the guitar itself. Still sounds crazy, but that's the only thing that makes sense.
Quote from: stellablue on October 08, 2014, 03:43:47 PM
I just received two mudbunny boards. The parts are out for delivery right now. In the past I've just used this site for reference material, but now I guess I'll jump in with both feet. I'll check back on TGP in a few months to see who makes the most accurate klone and find out which overdrive is most transparent.
Welcome!
This is a very easygoing, friendly forum. There isn't an infraction system, and we've never needed one. Different kind of place altogether.
No need to by shy at all. Jump right in. ;D
My completely unsubstantiated theory on the whole RGS taking over TMG is this.
RGS was one of the larger TMG dealers. Probably had a pretty big backlog of orders. Scamboy doesn't deliver, RGS is fully exposed to the extent of deposits/payments received from clients and deposits/payments made to TMG. If TMG folds, RGS is out of a pile of money either way. RGS absorbs TMG (a goodwill/brand for debt trade) to try and limit their damage exposure. Doesn't shed the TMG name in order to try and resurrect the brand in the theory that they can get everything back on track and build the brand (probably a mistake, as the deeper the story goes, the worse of an idea it appears to be).
How will it affect RGS? Meh, probably not that much. If it weren't for the TGP threads, which probably represent a minute fraction of the guitar buying public, few people would know about this fiasco (so, in that case, TGP has actually done the gear world a favour) who weren't directly affected by it. And let's face it, the guitar addict who walks into a store and sees exactly what he wants will quickly forget about any opinion he had about the store prior to walking in the door. I know, I've done it before.
But I'd drop the TMG name and boot Antaylorio out. He's clearly destructive.
Quote from: aion on October 08, 2014, 04:15:50 PM
A fool and his vintage guitar are soon parted... keep in mind, this guy first engaged with TMG AFTER all the controversy started. I'm glad he's the first to admit that he deserves what he got for being so naive, but still a sad story :(
Quote from: slacker775
This is the part I have hard time understanding. Granted, a good con can convince you of anything but if you already know that you have something worth about 35K, how can you possibly feel that swapping it for four guitars allegedly valued at 3-4K would be a fair trade?
If he was still enamored with Taylor's celebrity status at that point, he probably saw them naming a line of guitars after his grandfather as a better legacy than the guitar itself. Still sounds crazy, but that's the only thing that makes sense.
Are you sure? I thought he got started with them back in Australia before the whole thing blew up. But the whole soap opera has so many interlocked parts that I am not totally sure what is what.
It seems absurd that he would trade a '56 Goldtop (even a refinned one), but there wouldn't be so many stories of successful con artists if there weren't so many easy targets out there.
Quote from: GermanCdn on October 08, 2014, 04:26:01 PM
My completely unsubstantiated theory on the whole RGS taking over TMG is this.
RGS was one of the larger TMG dealers. Probably had a pretty big backlog of orders. Scamboy doesn't deliver, RGS is fully exposed to the extent of deposits/payments received from clients and deposits/payments made to TMG. If TMG folds, RGS is out of a pile of money either way. RGS absorbs TMG (a goodwill/brand for debt trade) to try and limit their damage exposure. Doesn't shed the TMG name in order to try and resurrect the brand in the theory that they can get everything back on track and build the brand (probably a mistake, as the deeper the story goes, the worse of an idea it appears to be).
How will it affect RGS? Meh, probably not that much. If it weren't for the TGP threads, which probably represent a minute fraction of the guitar buying public, few people would know about this fiasco (so, in that case, TGP has actually done the gear world a favour) who weren't directly affected by it. And let's face it, the guitar addict who walks into a store and sees exactly what he wants will quickly forget about any opinion he had about the store prior to walking in the door. I know, I've done it before.
But I'd drop the TMG name and boot Antaylorio out. He's clearly destructive.
I actually wouldn't be surprised to see TMG survive. There seems to be an assumption that they will close their doors. But if the RGS dude actually gets them producing guitars, they may get some of the P&W crowd into their guitars again as they don't seem to have lost all of their endorsees and it appears that there are many out there already willing to forgive them and give them a second chance. Time will tell.
The P&W crowd can get pretty weird with their gear and extremely brand loyal. It even gets to a point to where if I see a random pedal board, I can usually tell if it belongs to a P&Wer because they all buy the same stuff. Many would balk at my homemade pedals and self-assembled Tele played through my late '80s Fender solid state Pro 185!
I think that the majority of players, P&W or otherwise, won't really care about (or know about) business drama as long as they have their cool-for-the-moment gear. The griping hasn't hurt JHS, from what I can tell, and if TMG keeps making their guitars with the same amount of hype, they will get by in some form.
Quote from: pickdropper on October 08, 2014, 04:27:17 PM
Quote from: aion on October 08, 2014, 04:15:50 PM
A fool and his vintage guitar are soon parted... keep in mind, this guy first engaged with TMG AFTER all the controversy started. I'm glad he's the first to admit that he deserves what he got for being so naive, but still a sad story :(
Quote from: slacker775
This is the part I have hard time understanding. Granted, a good con can convince you of anything but if you already know that you have something worth about 35K, how can you possibly feel that swapping it for four guitars allegedly valued at 3-4K would be a fair trade?
If he was still enamored with Taylor's celebrity status at that point, he probably saw them naming a line of guitars after his grandfather as a better legacy than the guitar itself. Still sounds crazy, but that's the only thing that makes sense.
Are you sure? I thought he got started with them back in Australia before the whole thing blew up. But the whole soap opera has so many interlocked parts that I am not totally sure what is what.
It seems absurd that he would trade a '56 Goldtop (even a refinned one), but there wouldn't be so many stories of successful con artists if there weren't so many easy targets out there.
In the fourth paragraph he says he first got the idea to email Taylor by watching the interview video... the one that was created as a hurried response to accusations that TMG were scammers. Kind of ironic that they could use an apology to perpetuate the thing they were apologizing for.
He does say that he didn't first come to TGP until after he was already working for them, so if he was only following their Instagram then he would have gotten a very different impression of the company—TMG was deleting every comment that was even remotely negative. But still.
Quote from: aion on October 08, 2014, 06:33:53 PM
Quote from: pickdropper on October 08, 2014, 04:27:17 PM
Quote from: aion on October 08, 2014, 04:15:50 PM
A fool and his vintage guitar are soon parted... keep in mind, this guy first engaged with TMG AFTER all the controversy started. I'm glad he's the first to admit that he deserves what he got for being so naive, but still a sad story :(
Quote from: slacker775
This is the part I have hard time understanding. Granted, a good con can convince you of anything but if you already know that you have something worth about 35K, how can you possibly feel that swapping it for four guitars allegedly valued at 3-4K would be a fair trade?
If he was still enamored with Taylor's celebrity status at that point, he probably saw them naming a line of guitars after his grandfather as a better legacy than the guitar itself. Still sounds crazy, but that's the only thing that makes sense.
Are you sure? I thought he got started with them back in Australia before the whole thing blew up. But the whole soap opera has so many interlocked parts that I am not totally sure what is what.
It seems absurd that he would trade a '56 Goldtop (even a refinned one), but there wouldn't be so many stories of successful con artists if there weren't so many easy targets out there.
In the fourth paragraph he says he first got the idea to email Taylor by watching the interview video... the one that was created as a hurried response to accusations that TMG were scammers. Kind of ironic that they could use an apology to perpetuate the thing they were apologizing for.
He does say that he didn't first come to TGP until after he was already working for them, so if he was only following their Instagram then he would have gotten a very different impression of the company—TMG was deleting every comment that was even remotely negative. But still.
Interesting. I thought they had already moved to the US by the time they released that video.
Yep - my impression was that Jeremy is based in the US and all of his dealings with them were while they were in California. He references Taylor and Shane going back to Australia and leaving him the keys to the place while they were away.
Ah, that would make sense.
It is better to just read over there.
I gave an opinion and was warned twice and suspended once in the TMG storyline over several months. I like people over there and the mods seem nice enough, but I was accused of flame-baiting. I pointed out the partscaster inflation guitar costs were a symptom of the general investment bubble in the usa at the moment (due to a lack of places to put cash) and compared it to the bubble in the vintage car market and gave an article link to clarify my point. I was a comic book hoarder in the 90's when that bubble popped. I know the signs. Gibson is trying to cash in on the trend before the cash dries up when prices drop.
flame-baiting. I know TGP is a business, but I did not mention religion or politics.
TGP and moderation... I've got two warnings ;) Though to be fair I've tried on occasion to get myself banned. Not tried hard enough however.
Ok I post this link with a warning. This is a very UK-centric forum. We swear, a lot, and use a lot of what others consider 'very bad words' in fairly normal conversation. We have a dry and sarcastic sense of humo(u)r (sometimes very black). As such, please don't read it if you are easily offended...
http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/24360/ive-been-banned-from-tgp-again-lol/p1
But the lad getting banned for being gay on TGP (literally) was eye opening.
^^ Gotta be signed in to read it.
Probably safer that way to be fair ;)
Though it's amusing to read that by the end of the thread they're (we're?) giving ourselves shit for being just as bad for generalising (re Americans) and realising we're no better than TGP in that regard. Which is interesting in itself.
A fascinating cross-continental glimpse into different nation's psyches.
Quote from: culturejam on October 08, 2014, 08:44:51 PM
^^ Gotta be signed in to read it.
Google it and read the cached copy.
Thanks for the Fretboard link. So refreshing to see other people as annoyed as I am with all the "giant sky fairy" and gun talk on TGP.
Tis a good UK site. The off topic room can get a bit lairy, but it's mostly good humour. That and BKP are about all that's left, and BKP has been getting a bit barren of late.
I stick with TGP for the music discussion and good deals on used gear.
TGP is ok, but it is a Ned Flanders style message board
Quote from: dont-tase-me-bro on October 09, 2014, 12:40:15 AM
TGP is ok, but it is a Ned Flanders style message board
Lol. TGPers don't shred. They noodly-doodly.
There's only so much wanking over photos of pedal boards I can take.
"Look at my amazing pedalboard, with clean wiring, and all the trendy gearz!"
There are only so many forums I can keep track of.
Madbean, BYOC and The Fretboard are about the only ones I frequent to be honest.
The 'anything goes' policy of The Fretboard is quite refreshing.
It is also, on the otherhand, a very British forum. By that read people pissing and moaning about everything under the sun (our national past time don't you know) ;)
Quote from: alanp on October 09, 2014, 03:41:16 AM
There's only so much wanking over photos of pedal boards I can take.
"Look at my amazing pedalboard, with clean wiring, and all the trendy gearz!"
/and I jizz in my pants