https://www.facebook.com/TrueEffectsPedals?hc_location=timeline
I saw this delay pedal and...it even has a ghost switch, keep in mind it's just a prototype...weird
99.9% that is indeed the SDX.
Too many coincidences in the control layouts.
Remind me, Beaners, is it kosher to make commercial runs of pedals with the pcbs? I seem to recall policies being revised at some point.
100% SDX. The mode switch is even offset exactly like the SDX. Plus, he has a Nautilus build on his page too so he obviously uses Madbean PCB's. Not that big of a deal if he didn't refer to his delay as a "prototype!" IMO bad form...
I believe, offhand, small runs for sale have been given the green light, but commercial runs that are blatant rips with no mention of madbean is wrong and probably forbidden.
I'm trying to sell a couple of builds, and I make sure to mention they are built on a 'bean pcb.
In fact, I would consider that a sign of quality.
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Brian actually states that you do not need to credit him for small runs, but if it were me I would not use the word prototype. It may not be his intention, but it is misleading to call it a prototype. It is in the sense that he will probably use the same enclosure, bezel, 3pdt's, etc., but it is not a prototype as far as the circuit design goes.
Stomptown has nailed it, for me.
Plus calling it your prototype implies that you developed it, which is decidedly Uncool. Especially when Brian worked so hard on it.
What a joker
At least there are a couple comments on there where people are calling his bullshit.
The whole: "look at the prototype we cooked up" kinda erks me.
I asked for a gut shot.....hold my breath.:-X
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Hah...he admitted it.
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Quote from: ch1naski on June 08, 2013, 05:18:18 AM
Hah...he admitted it.
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he also removed it from his page which confirms his deception. ::) This reminds me of an acquaintance of mine who recently posted a song that we co-wrote and left me off of the credits and removed my comment after I called him on it. He later posted something that gave me credit, but he was obviously more concerned with his image than anything else. I basically took his lyrics and turned it into a song and he was telling everyone it was his "first song that he wrote and finished!" Maybe my expectations are high but I just don't understand how people can sleep at night knowing that they are full of s*&t! ;D
Ten to one the Rodeo Clown is a ZP micro and a Bacon bits. Sad.
The comment by "ian Lovetone" is me by the way.. ;)
called it like I saw it.
I think its bs. He claims mods, but I doubt that. Only "mod" I see is the plexiglass layer in the case.
I have no horse in this race but... I pulled two quotes from here: http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=8020.0
"Any PCB that is currently listed on the projects page can be used for your own commercial endeavors. This means PCBs purchased from the store, AND/OR made from the etching artwork in the documents (if available) can be used in your own pedals you make specifically for the purpose of selling. So, if you want to build some Big Muffs for sale and use the Mudbunny PCB (whether you buy them from me or etch your own from the artwork) that is totally okay. You do not need to credit me, or offer any compensation for this....EVEN WHEN USING THE ETCHABLE ARTWORK. Same with the Zero Points, Low Riders, fuzzes, etc. You know what I mean"
"Lastly, if you are using the MBP PCB's to sell your own pedals, it is a good idea (and my preference) that you do not use the same project name. For example, if you want to sell some Kingslayer builds, use a different name. The only reason for this is brand distinction....so that your customers don't think it is something I built (probably more applicable on re-sale or used, but you get the idea)."
Here is wikipedia's definition of a prototype:
"A prototype is an early sample or model built to test a concept or process or to act as a thing to be replicated or learned from. It is a term used in a variety of contexts, including semantics, design, electronics, and software programming. A prototype is designed to test and trial a new design to enhance precision by system analysts and users. Prototyping serves to provide specifications for a real, working system rather than a theoretical one."
Quote from: gtr2 on June 08, 2013, 09:56:44 AM
I have no horse in this race but... I pulled two quotes from here: http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=8020.0
"Any PCB that is currently listed on the projects page can be used for your own commercial endeavors. This means PCBs purchased from the store, AND/OR made from the etching artwork in the documents (if available) can be used in your own pedals you make specifically for the purpose of selling. So, if you want to build some Big Muffs for sale and use the Mudbunny PCB (whether you buy them from me or etch your own from the artwork) that is totally okay. You do not need to credit me, or offer any compensation for this....EVEN WHEN USING THE ETCHABLE ARTWORK. Same with the Zero Points, Low Riders, fuzzes, etc. You know what I mean"
"Lastly, if you are using the MBP PCB's to sell your own pedals, it is a good idea (and my preference) that you do not use the same project name. For example, if you want to sell some Kingslayer builds, use a different name. The only reason for this is brand distinction....so that your customers don't think it is something I built (probably more applicable on re-sale or used, but you get the idea)."
Here is wikipedia's definition of a prototype:
"A prototype is an early sample or model built to test a concept or process or to act as a thing to be replicated or learned from. It is a term used in a variety of contexts, including semantics, design, electronics, and software programming. A prototype is designed to test and trial a new design to enhance precision by system analysts and users. Prototyping serves to provide specifications for a real, working system rather than a theoretical one."
Yeah, reading the build docs would have made everyone calm down.
I think the problem was the use of the word prototype was stretching the connotation a bit thin in this setting. It came across as marketing obfuscation. With all the pedals out there that are just rebranding of stock models from China with a bunch of nonsense marketing and others that are just knock-offs with overhyped marketing, people are a bit sensitive to the situation. That combined with the loyalty Madbean has built up through being honest and helpful is going to add up to some volatility in reaction. It's probably best to err to the side of clarity when marketing these types of things.
Bean spelled out the new policy pretty clearly, and the guy is not woefully in the wrong per se. They way he is marketing his stuff errs on the side of taking credit for everything and never showing gutshots which will rub most DIYers the wrong way.
I prefer a more transparent method of marketing because I am very grateful to the guys who produce the PCB's. I almost only do custom orders now, I haven't really had to post much on eBay or FS sections of forums for a while, though occasionally I will. I always credit the PCB's designer/vendor and often link the build doc. If I have a mod that I preform I'll specifically say what it is and how it is implemented. When people buy a pedal from me I am selling the way I assemble it, as many of the things I have sold could be put together by a noob. So it is lead dress, enclosure design/finishes, and control layout as well as components (mojo, high quality, etc.), really the finesse or style of the way I like to build a pedal. I really prefer custom work because the buyer can look at all the different projects from different places and decide what will work best for them. Then they can choose to help with graphics, naming of the effect, funny names for the controls, knob choice and overall theme.
According to the updated policy on using the boards for commercial purposes, he's not doing anything wrong. (I personally think Brian is giving too much leeway, but that's my opinion).
The reason it's bugging people is ethics. The same reason it bothers people to see a 300 dollar "original boutique design" ......and it's a tube screamer in a fancy enclosure.
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So first lwt mw say I wasnt trying to make trouble. Second, it was the use of the word "prototype" that bugged me. It's just ethically wrong to take some one's designe and blatantly rip it off and call it your own. Bean works hard and deserves credit where credit is due. If feel like he tries hard not to rip off other pedals, but put his spin on the designs.
So that was my intent.:P
There's no problem with him (or anyone) using the ZPDSX to build some commercial pedals. That is clearly spelled out in the new licensing policy started this year. And, credit is not necessary in the sale or marketing of such a thing (it's appreciated but not expected). The only problem I would have is if someone tried to take credit for the actual design and present it as their own. Obviously, that would be disingenuous. I don't think that is the intent here but it's hard to make a judgement just on one small Facebook blurb. So, let's not.
Frankly, I don't know why someone would want to build the SDX as a commercial pedal. It sounds great, of course, but it's so labor intensive that I can't see how it would be profitable for anyone in a price margin that will compete with other commercial delay pedals.