madbeanpedals::forum

General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: junkemail86 on June 10, 2013, 02:07:22 AM

Title: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: junkemail86 on June 10, 2013, 02:07:22 AM
I'm sure this exists in some form, but I thought it would be nice for us to post some basic things that would have been helpful when we were making our first few pedals.  Here are a few things that have made life easier for me:

- Use thinner solder to make things neater
- Purchase a fabricated PCB for the first few pedals.  There are several people at this forum that will etch a PCB for you if Madbean doesn't offer a project you are interested in
- Consider multiple conductor wire for pots (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062656), or better yet use PCB-mount pots
- Use smaller pot sizes! I started out using 24 mm pots and they are just too large for most purposes.  I personally like 16 mm, but some prefer 9 mm pots
- Futurlec value packs are a great way to build your resistor and capacitor stash:  http://futurlec.com/ValuePacks.shtml
- Try building your own instrument cables (consider these plugs  http://www.speakerrepair.com/page/product/PandJ-allplugs/32-232x20.html   and   http://www.redco.com  for bulk cable)
- If you hate drilling enclosures as much as I do, consider a tool like this  http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_16698_16698


Links:

Pre-made PCBs:
madbeanpedals.com
guitarpcb.com

Vero layouts:
http://www.sabrotone.com
http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com

Knowledge:
freestompboxes.org
diystompboxes.com
madbeanpedals.com
http://www.geofex.com
muzique.com

Part suppliers:
http://www.taydaelectronics.com
http://www.futurlec.com
http://www.mammothelectronics.com
http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/StoreFront
http://www.digikey.com
http://www.mouser.com
http://www.pedalpartsplus.com


Feel free to add your own tips!
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: gordo on June 10, 2013, 02:59:41 AM
Shhhhh, yer letting out all the secrets...

Nicely done, it's taken years of this (more than I'd care to admit) to compile such a list on my own.  A wealth of knowledge and suppliers to make it happen in that single post.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: RobA on June 10, 2013, 03:19:04 AM
Add Allied and Avnet to the suppliers list.

http://www.alliedelec.com

https://avnetexpress.avnet.com

Allied usually has the best prices on solder supplies and vactrols. Avnet almost always has better prices on anything from TI, Atmel, ST, and Microchip, particularly TI.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: billstein on June 10, 2013, 03:59:27 AM
1.  The thing that really helped me was taking some time to go through the build reports and really study how the craftsman on this board did things. I learned so much about internal wiring.

2.  Get a decent soldering iron.

3.  Be curious. Ask questions. Read through the posts when others are troubleshooting problems. Today I was able to get two pedals working (a Multiplex jr and a Small clone) using tips I learned by reading the recommendations given to others for completely different pedals.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: jimilee on June 10, 2013, 04:42:42 AM
I bet I read troubleshooting threads for a month before I built my first pedal. I still read them to learn.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: jkokura on June 10, 2013, 05:23:55 AM
1. You don't have to box every circuit you build. In fact, don't plan to box anything till after it's been tested.

2. Be careful buying from too many sources. Just cause it's cheaper per part doesn't mean you've saved anything in shipping.

3. Use a drill press and use a step bit unless you're already a hand drill pro.

4. Plan. Carefully, plan everything out BEFORE you buy parts, AGAIN BEFORE you build anything, AGAIN BEFORE you assemble anything. It sucks to spend money on stuff only to have to throw it out because you didn't plan right.

5. It's ok to buy lots of PCBs. Great places to get PCBs include: Madbean (obviously), JMK PCBs (obviously), 1776 Effects (obviously), and some other places too.

Jacob
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: juansolo on June 10, 2013, 06:53:21 AM
Buy PCBs when they're available (all PCBs not just Bean) if you're thinking you might want to build them at some point. There's no telling how long they'll be in stock, whether or not another run will be done, whether they'll be withdrawn, etc, etc.

I have a tub of something like 40 PCBs... Some I know will be surplus now, but they're always good for trades or multi-effects.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: alanp on June 10, 2013, 06:57:30 AM
Blu-tack. It's even better than masking tape.

Learn to hold the roll of solder in the palm of your hand while you solder with it, don't cut off lengths. You just wind up with a million 5mm lengths of solder, which is a waste. A 250gram roll fits in my palm nicely.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: drezdn on June 10, 2013, 01:05:24 PM
Build and use a testing rig (http://beavisaudio.com/bboard/images/io_diy.jpg)*. Once you have one built, it'll save tons of time troubleshooting.

Secondly, don't let mistakes get you down. I've been building for four years now, and I still make foolish mistakes from time to time. It seems like I learn more from when things don't work then when they do.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: Cortexturizer on June 10, 2013, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: drezdn on June 10, 2013, 01:05:24 PM
Build and use a testing rig (http://beavisaudio.com/bboard/images/io_diy.jpg)*.
I am SO...SO building this.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: croquet hoop on June 10, 2013, 01:26:06 PM
You can add http://www.musikding.de/ and http://www.banzaimusic.com/home.php in the parts suppliers list, they are interesting alternatives to smallbear for European builders.

Read, read, read, use and abuse the search function.

I think JMK PCBs and 1776 Effects have been named, they have lots of interesting projects. And many others can be found in the Buy/Sell/Trade & Member Projects sections of the forum.

Also, when you start, it can be helpful to list in a spreadsheet all the parts you need for the first handful of pedals you're planning to build. It's not necessary for three pedals, but when you're planning on getting stuff for 10-15 builds, it really helps, especially for caps and resistors, (here (http://monimag.eu/upload/1209/ssheet.png)'s an example, just a part of my current spreadsheet). Then when you find another build you want to try, just add the components. Before ordering, delete the columns listing parts for the pedals you've already built or don't want to now, and look up the total for each part on the right-hand side.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: midwayfair on June 10, 2013, 01:39:38 PM
Breadboard.

Noun and verb.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on June 10, 2013, 01:55:50 PM
Just to add in the "WOW... my build worked the first time" area....

1) If you etch your own PCBs... make sure to check 2x for trace bridges BEFORE dipping the PCB in the etchant. You can use an xacto knife to scratch off unwanted bridges in the resist before etching.
2) ALWAYS verify each component's value and placement 2x as you are installing it into the board. Check resistor color codes, capacitor value markings, diode bands, zener part numbers, IC orientation. If you have ANY questions... refer to the appropriate data sheets.
3) Double check your offboard wiring. Make sure that you have the correct wires going to the correct pot lugs, In/Out jack lugs, and make sure you have power and ground going to the correct places.
4) Once you finish soldering your PCB, ALWAYS look it over closely for self-made solder bridges.

I use these 4 easy steps with every build. To this day, I have only had 2 builds that did not work (not saying that they didnt need tweaking  ;)) and one of those was because my PCB layout was screwed up  :-\

Good Luck  ;D
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: Tremster on June 10, 2013, 01:56:37 PM
Quote from: croquet hoop on June 10, 2013, 01:26:06 PM
You can add http://www.musikding.de/ and http://www.banzaimusic.com/home.php in the parts suppliers list, they are interesting alternatives to smallbear for European builders.

And MEK/UK: http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?language=en (http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?language=en)
For quite a few things they're cheaper than the other two.

And maybe Reichelt for some things: http://www.reichelt.de/ (http://www.reichelt.de/)
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: gtr2 on June 10, 2013, 01:57:47 PM
Learn to properly desolder sooner rather than later  ;D

Josh
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: drezdn on June 10, 2013, 02:03:15 PM
If you don't have right angle pots, you can make them using component leads.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: Liustucru on June 10, 2013, 02:04:38 PM
Quote from: Cortexturizer on June 10, 2013, 01:11:33 PM
Quote from: drezdn on June 10, 2013, 01:05:24 PM
Build and use a testing rig (http://beavisaudio.com/bboard/images/io_diy.jpg)*.
I am SO...SO building this.

Consider to include a road rage into your test rig for even more flexibility.
Mine is based on Beavis' one too:
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=3837.0

I just use it for all my builds with no exception.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: billstein on June 10, 2013, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: gtr2 on June 10, 2013, 01:57:47 PM
Learn to properly desolder sooner rather than later  ;D

Josh

Any tips on desoldering pcb mount pots? One of my least favorite things in the world.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: drezdn on June 10, 2013, 03:16:40 PM
Quote from: billstein on June 10, 2013, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: gtr2 on June 10, 2013, 01:57:47 PM
Learn to properly desolder sooner rather than later  ;D

Josh

Any tips on desoldering pcb mount pots? One of my least favorite things in the world.

I'm a big fan of using a desoldering iron. (http://www.amazon.com/ECG-J-045-DS-Watt-Desoldering-Iron/dp/B00068IJSG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370877342&sr=8-1&keywords=desoldering+iron)
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on June 10, 2013, 03:21:59 PM
Quote from: billstein on June 10, 2013, 03:10:57 PM
Any tips on desoldering pcb mount pots? One of my least favorite things in the world.

Desolder pump is one of the most effective tools in the DIY arsenal! And you can find them cheap too!
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: gtr2 on June 10, 2013, 04:09:42 PM
Quote from: drezdn on June 10, 2013, 03:16:40 PM
Quote from: billstein on June 10, 2013, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: gtr2 on June 10, 2013, 01:57:47 PM
Learn to properly desolder sooner rather than later  ;D

Josh

Any tips on desoldering pcb mount pots? One of my least favorite things in the world.

I'm a big fan of using a desoldering iron. (http://www.amazon.com/ECG-J-045-DS-Watt-Desoldering-Iron/dp/B00068IJSG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370877342&sr=8-1&keywords=desoldering+iron)

I've used one of these for the last year or two but it was the radioshack one.

But I caved and finally bought a Hakko 808 desoldering gun  :)

Josh
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: Droogie on June 10, 2013, 04:54:59 PM
Remember that troubleshooting involves one of three possibilities on fabbed boards:
1) Soldering error—cold joint, solder bridge, forgot a pad, etc.
2) Part error—placement, orientation of polarized caps/ICs/diodes, wrong value
3) Part malfunction—bad pot, bad IC

I always assume 1 or 2 before I look at 3 (infrequent over 50 builds or so)

Other than "did I plug everything in and turn the volume up?" did I leave anything out?
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: pickdropper on June 10, 2013, 05:19:36 PM
Quote from: gtr2 on June 10, 2013, 04:09:42 PM
Quote from: drezdn on June 10, 2013, 03:16:40 PM
Quote from: billstein on June 10, 2013, 03:10:57 PM
Quote from: gtr2 on June 10, 2013, 01:57:47 PM
Learn to properly desolder sooner rather than later  ;D

Josh

Any tips on desoldering pcb mount pots? One of my least favorite things in the world.

I'm a big fan of using a desoldering iron. (http://www.amazon.com/ECG-J-045-DS-Watt-Desoldering-Iron/dp/B00068IJSG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1370877342&sr=8-1&keywords=desoldering+iron)

I've used one of these for the last year or two but it was the radioshack one.

But I caved and finally bought a Hakko 808 desoldering gun  :)

Josh


I've been tempted to get a desoldering gun, and I will at some point.  I did pick up a really nice set of desoldering tweezers.  With the blade attachments, I can desolder a through-hole IC.  The other day, I used it to take off an HDMI cable.  All 19 pins simultaneously: it was wonderful.  :-)

As far as desoldering pumps go, I wished I had learned earlier how much better a good one is.  I used one of the Radio Shack ones for years.  I finally bought a Solda-Pult for $12-13 and it was considerably better. 
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: gtr2 on June 10, 2013, 05:33:36 PM
Yeah, I resisted until last week.  The desoldering gun is expensive for occasional use but I'll save money just desoldering all the PCB mount pots on unused prototype and never to be boxed builds...
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: davent on June 10, 2013, 05:38:08 PM
Quote from: alanp on June 10, 2013, 06:57:30 AM
Blu-tack. It's even better than masking tape.

Learn to hold the roll of solder in the palm of your hand while you solder with it, don't cut off lengths. You just wind up with a million 5mm lengths of solder, which is a waste. A 250gram roll fits in my palm nicely.

For a solder holder i simply stand the 1lb. roll of soder on a small lazy-susan bearing and it easily unspools as it gets used. Put a piece of non-slip drawer liner atop the bearing before setting the solder spool on it so it won't slide off. We'll see how much solder i have to use up before the spool weighs too little for this to be effective.

dave
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: pickdropper on June 10, 2013, 05:48:30 PM
A couple other comments:

BluTack - I completely agree.  I think many engineering departments would shut down if they stopped making that.

Another tool that I wish I knew about in the beginning is a hole deburring tool.  Those things are really useful.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: drezdn on June 10, 2013, 05:54:57 PM
What do you use to debur holes? I've used countersink bits, or bigger drill bits to debur holes, but I would love to hear a better way.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: davent on June 10, 2013, 07:21:14 PM
Quote from: drezdn on June 10, 2013, 05:54:57 PM
What do you use to debur holes? I've used countersink bits, or bigger drill bits to debur holes, but I would love to hear a better way.

Little tool in bottom left corner, can do 1/8" holes on up, works great. Other necessary tools, forceps, callipers, dental pick a myriad of uses. The third hand as-is, is garbage but can be modified to at least make useful.

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_1233.jpg) (http://s216.photobucket.com/user/davent/media/IMG_1233.jpg.html)

Dental mirror comes in handy as well and lots of magnitying tools, jewelers loupes, magnifying glasses, headband magnifiers...
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_1205.jpg) (http://s216.photobucket.com/user/davent/media/IMG_1205.jpg.html)
dave
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: pryde on June 10, 2013, 07:49:36 PM
T-Handle Reamer. $5 at HF tools.

Use it all the time to open up enclosure holes for tighter fit of LEDs and 9v jacks, etc

Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: aballen on June 11, 2013, 02:07:20 AM
I use this desoldering iron.  It takes a few minutes to heat up, but it's works really well and the price is great too.

http://m.radioshack.com/radioshack/product/detail.do?itemId=2062731&op=%22http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062731%22
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: selfdestroyer on June 11, 2013, 03:13:02 AM
Quote from: pryde on June 10, 2013, 07:49:36 PM
T-Handle Reamer. $5 at HF tools.

Use it all the time to open up enclosure holes for tighter fit of LEDs and 9v jacks, etc




Exactly what I use also. Works great.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: TNblueshawk on June 11, 2013, 02:43:59 PM
I would have gotten an electronics degree in college...
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: GermanCdn on June 11, 2013, 02:59:20 PM
1.  Build a kick ass testing/debugging rig.  Just finished one with some of Jacob's pcbs, will post a build report shortly.
2. If you think you're going to like a circuit even before you build it, buy two pcbs.  Build one stock and experiment with the second.  If you build it up and don't like it, you can always sell the second pcb.  And some of the disappear from production quicker than you'd think.
3.  Plan your orders carefully to minimize shipping costs and get familiar with a number of vendors.  I still order a lot of stuff from Europe even though I don't live there anymore, because the shipping rates to Canada are better than Smallbear and Mammoth.
4.  Scotchbrite pads - make great work surfaces when you're trying to hold components in, and can be used to buff up vero and etched boards.
5.  Invest in a good quality step bit, soldering iron, and diagonal cutter, they will make your life a lot easier.
6.  Accept the fact you won't love every circuit you build.
7. Buy an IC leg straightener.
8. Always wear glasses/safety glasses
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: Jederino on June 11, 2013, 03:31:31 PM
What, my brilliant plan to solder all those 5mm lengths I have left could have been avoided!?  LOL

- socket transistors, IC's, and anything the build report might suggest could be changed.

- when building you can get very familiar with the parts, so read through the scheme and you will learn so much more.

- get a DMM and learn how to use it.  There are tons of videos on YouTube.

-  start small, but something cool, so you have accomplishment you can hear.  No offense to the people who suggest a looper switch . . ahem, but a booster is just as easy.  Ha ha!

- don't throw that non working board against the wall
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: drezdn on June 11, 2013, 03:33:59 PM
Download build docs when you buy a board. Otherwise, you might have trouble in a few years when you get around to building something.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: snz728 on June 12, 2013, 02:17:22 AM
1uf multilayer ceramic capacitors make it easier than those big  box capacitors to close the lid of your 1590b box.
DMM with continuity tester and test for continuity again and again, it can find lots of problems.
Title: Re: Re: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: jimilee on June 12, 2013, 02:27:52 AM
Quote from: snz728 on June 12, 2013, 02:17:22 AM
1uf multilayer ceramic transistors make it easier than those big  box transistors to close the lid of your 1590b box.
DMM with continuity tester and test for continuity again and again, it can find lots of problems.
I dont even know what a 1uf multilayer transistor is.is it a film cap a ceramic an electro or a tranny?
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: snz728 on June 12, 2013, 02:43:51 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Pcs-1uF-Through-Hole-Multilayer-Ceramic-Capacitors-/321062768781?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac0d5108d (http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Pcs-1uF-Through-Hole-Multilayer-Ceramic-Capacitors-/321062768781?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac0d5108d)
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: Haberdasher on June 12, 2013, 02:45:27 AM
never fry bacon naked.
that's all i got for now.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: pickdropper on June 12, 2013, 02:50:34 AM
Quote from: Haberdasher on June 12, 2013, 02:45:27 AM
never fry bacon naked.
that's all i got for now.

Seems like a good place to start.

You may want to add soldering to your list.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: jkokura on June 12, 2013, 02:51:59 AM
Don't pee on electric fences.

Jacob
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: billstein on June 12, 2013, 02:58:31 AM
Quote from: pickdropper on June 12, 2013, 02:50:34 AM
Quote from: Haberdasher on June 12, 2013, 02:45:27 AM
never fry bacon naked.
that's all i got for now.

Seems like a good place to start.

You may want to add soldering to your list.

I think I see what you're saying. Haberdasher's list is a good starting place but maybe a little incomplete.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: jimilee on June 12, 2013, 03:23:14 AM
Quote from: snz728 on June 12, 2013, 02:43:51 AM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Pcs-1uF-Through-Hole-Multilayer-Ceramic-Capacitors-/321062768781?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac0d5108d (http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Pcs-1uF-Through-Hole-Multilayer-Ceramic-Capacitors-/321062768781?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac0d5108d)
Sonofabitch! There you go. Now I HAVE seen everything. :P
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: Haberdasher on June 12, 2013, 03:29:13 AM
Quote from: pickdropper on June 12, 2013, 02:50:34 AM
Quote from: Haberdasher on June 12, 2013, 02:45:27 AM
never fry bacon naked.
that's all i got for now.

Seems like a good place to start.

You may want to add soldering to your list.

Fair enough.  I may give up naked soldering for lent next year; i'll have to think about it.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: drezdn on June 12, 2013, 12:40:12 PM
I need to put something on my testing rig like "are all the socket-ed components in? Did you check? Really? Check again. Are they all in?"
Title: Re:
Post by: ch1naski on June 12, 2013, 06:15:46 PM
SIP sockets. Even today I sometimes forget to use them on components that may need tinkering.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: billstein on June 12, 2013, 08:25:40 PM
Quote from: drezdn on June 12, 2013, 12:40:12 PM
I need to put something on my testing rig like "are all the socket-ed components in? Did you check? Really? Check again. Are they all in?"

Then line 2: Is the cable plugged into the effect AND the guitar? Is the guitars volume up? Is the cable from the guitar plugged into the out jack of the effect?

I swear, almost every build I do something so stupid. I'm wasting a lot of panic over nothing.
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: jkokura on June 12, 2013, 09:36:35 PM
I totally did that with a build last week. One of the recently released designs didn't fire up with my 'rock before box' rig. So I hook it up to my debugging rig, and I begin to go through the circuit with my audio probe. I spent maybe 20 minutes tracing the signal, stopping at this transistor. Again and again.

Flip the board over and look... no tranny in the socket.

Jacob
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: gtr2 on June 12, 2013, 11:26:06 PM
yup, I still do the empty socket thing after a lot of building too...  :D
Title: Re: Re: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: jimilee on June 13, 2013, 12:19:17 AM
Quote from: gtr2 on June 12, 2013, 11:26:06 PM
yup, I still do the empty socket thing after a lot of building too...  :D
I was feeling pretty cocky tonight because I remembered the ic's, and forgot to hookup my guitar. Dammit!
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: alanp on June 13, 2013, 08:38:24 AM
I did that with the No Name Flange.

Now THERE is a build where you think "Thank Gawd that THAT was the problem, and not ANYTHING else..."
Title: Re: I wish I knew this when I was first starting...
Post by: mysticaxe on June 13, 2013, 05:04:59 PM
Did I wire the jacks right?  I've done that a couple times - wire the input jack to the stomp switch output and vice versa...