So, I'm away for the summer on a gig, and am getting serious withdrawal symptoms, so i have done lots of Eagle designing, and am getting a lot of small runs of boards done.
So, on to the "Multi pedal of doom". I have this idea to put a load of pedals in one box, so that i can just take that to a gig, dump it on the floor, plug in the power, and away i go. Obviously it's not to replace either my big board, or my pedal train nano, but i think it'd be really useful!
So, i have 4 main questions..
A) What to put in a 'ready for most scenarios' multi..
This is what i am thinking so far
1) Boss TU 2, gutted - and the screen screwed down, I saw it on a thread here maybe?
2) Compressor (Afterlife)
3) Fatpants v2 (clean tone secret weapon)
4) Shoot the Moon Tremelo (I'm having some 1590A boards fabbed)
5) Nautilus (amazing pedal - I've done an SMD layout in eagle that fits easily in a 125b or maybe 1590b can't remember)
6) Klon Centaur (True Bypass)
7) Zen Drive (I'm having some 1590A boards fabbed)
8) Zero Point Micro/Cave Dweller (not sure on that one)
9) Boost - Maybe Thunderpuss
As you can see, a lot of the boards are quite small, ish..
B) What enclosure would i need, perhaps a looper type enclosure?
C) Is there an issue with having that many charge pumps running of one power supply?
D) Does anyone out there have any information on a True Bypass conversion for the TU 2
Any information would be massively appreciated, on either on what should or should not be in there, circuit order etc...
EDIT - I've not built the Zero point micro, so opinions on that circuit would be good as well. Also, does anyone know if a tap tempo is easily rigged up with the ZPM?
Thanks dudes
George
Here's a quick question. Are you a knob fiddler? Or do you set knobs and leave them?
If you're the former, I don't think my idea will work for you.
However, if you're the latter consider having no knobs, just trim pots. That way, you can have external switches, and use a 1590D enclosure. Eight switches is easy to get on there, you could prbably even go with 10. And, since you're not using knobs, it means you don't have lower costs too.
It would be a bit of a hassle to setup though, because in order to get your pedals sounding the way you'd like, you'd have to experiment, fiddle, and tweak for a while in an awkward way (back removed, flip it over, fiddle, turn it back over, play again, flip it over, etc.). It wouldn't be perfect, but then, when you get to the gig, you slap it down, plug in, and play.
Just a thought.
Jacob
Thanks Jacob,
unfortunately i'm a knob fiddler (man that sounds weird!). However, to save some space on the front the afterlife, fatpants, and thunderpuss could all be set with internal trimpots.
George
With that many effects and switches and knobs, I think you're going to have to go bigger than a 1590D/DD, which means I don't know if you'll be able to find a box easily. Or, you could go the route of using multiple enclosures. But that sort of defeats the purpose.
Jacob
My biggest recommendation is: Consider forgoing true bypass altogether in something this complicated. You need to make certain you don't have any impedance issues between various pedals, because it's going to be a pain to replace stuff if you need to.
There's a lot of redundancy here, even if it's not obvious. You could do some fun things like leaving out the dry path circuitry from the delays and just splicing the delay path into, say, the Fatpants or Klone. Also, do you really need a Thunderpus on a board with both the Fatpants and the Klone?
Multicomp G124MF
http://www.newark.com/multicomp/g124mf/box-diecast-222x146x55mm/dp/55T2820
Its got flanges either side so you can stick handles on them = cool!
Jon, Yes the Fatpants and thunderpuss are for different things. The Fatpants is a preamp, for the tasty active midrange that you get on the clean tone with a strat, the thunderpuss is just a boost to 'make me louder' for solos and lead work. The Fatpants could deffo get away with having a trimpot for the volume, and just have the 'Fat' on the front.
You bring up a good point about the delay signal, that warrants some thought. Are the other redundancies you are talking about with the two drives, i just like those two, and i need more than one drive on board, to be set at different gain settings.
The G124MF may work, but what do you guys think about using one of the 'looper' enclosures (cant remember the number), as it will be long enough for all the switches.
Personally, I'd dump the TU-2 to get a little more room. You can pick up the Planet Waves headstock tuners for cheap and they do the job, and unless you're like me and bring 6 guitars to an eight song set, you can get by with a couple per gig. Alternately, you could put a tuner bypass out on the front end, which would also serve to silence the unit if you wanted to.
As far as enclosures go, I've got two similar projects at the 80% completed (got shelved when I got sick a few months back, and haven't got back to them for no particular reason), you can stick about 5 3PDTs in a NS-1032 looper enclosure. The beauty of those is you can mount the two knobs you use the most on the horziontal face, and the less common ones on the vertical face, still allowing you to be a knob turner. You'd need a couple, but you could do it.
Stick a couple of fx loops between the fx (ie. two stereo jacks which have normally closed contacts when no cable is present). That gives you the ability to drop a few fx in strategic places later if you want to. When I build comp/boost combos, I always run a loop between the two, so I can stick an EQ/Filter/Wah/whatever if I want to.
I'd put a reverb in too, either a rub a dub, or a Tenebrion, either should work in those enclosures.
i have a DR Z Maz Reverb, and the reverb on it sounds great, so there would be no need for a reverb, i agree about the effects loop. i know what you mean about the tuner, but i like the idea of having a tuner built in to it. The headstock tuners aren't accurate enough for me, i had a custom made intonated nut fitted to my strat, so that the chords at the bottom of the neck are more in tune, perhaps i'll just put a loop in for a tuner, as i use a planet waves strobe tuner.
i think i will have the fatpants at the start, set with two internal trimmers, and always on, just as a preamp.
save some space on the front, and i never turn it off anyway!
Quote from: GermanCdn on July 17, 2013, 08:05:48 PM
Stick a couple of fx loops between the fx (ie. two stereo jacks which have normally closed contacts when no cable is present). That gives you the ability to drop a few fx in strategic places later if you want to. When I build comp/boost combos, I always run a loop between the two, so I can stick an EQ/Filter/Wah/whatever if I want to.
This. And with one dedicated for the TU-2, that would solve a bunch of problems, like fuzzes that don't like a buffer before them. Or just use a headstock tuner....
Paul
my planet waves tuner is true bypass, but i was toying with converting the tuner to true bypass too.
The only reason i was going to go with a TU2, is because you can just take it out of it's enclosure, cut a square hole and the 4 allen screws screw it down, it would look sweet.
What? No DIY tuner?
Careful having multiple effects in the same enclosure running charge pump. They can hetrodyne. It's been a proper pain in the arse on a couple of my builds.
Quote from: juansolo on July 18, 2013, 07:50:08 PM
Careful having multiple effects in the same enclosure running charge pump. They can hetrodyne. It's been a proper pain in the arse on a couple of my builds.
You know, he could just tap the Klone at the 18v out ...
Using the LT1054 with pin 1 bend out seems like the best call. You could almost run the whole shooting match at 18v with a single 1054.
Oh, you asked for opinions on the Zero Point: it's excellent, and the modulation is perfect with the depth reduced slightly.
Quote from: midwayfair on July 18, 2013, 08:17:05 PM
You know, he could just tap the Klone at the 18v out ...
Or run off the auxillary 18V out from the the Fatpants.
Quote from: GermanCdn on July 18, 2013, 09:29:12 PM
Quote from: midwayfair on July 18, 2013, 08:17:05 PM
You know, he could just tap the Klone at the 18v out ...
Or run off the auxillary 18V out from the the Fatpants.
Yeah, the fatpants puts out about 17v, that's got to be enough for the klon purposes, but what about the nautilus too, do you think that is too much strain on one charge pump?
I'm quite tired, as i did two lunch sets in 40 degree C heat, and two on the beach tonight, i can't quite get my brain in gear!
Quote from: midwayfair on July 18, 2013, 08:17:05 PM
Quote from: juansolo on July 18, 2013, 07:50:08 PM
Careful having multiple effects in the same enclosure running charge pump. They can hetrodyne. It's been a proper pain in the arse on a couple of my builds.
You know, he could just tap the Klone at the 18v out ...
Using the LT1054 with pin 1 bend out seems like the best call. You could almost run the whole shooting match at 18v with a single 1054.
Oh, you asked for opinions on the Zero Point: it's excellent, and the modulation is perfect with the depth reduced slightly.
Yeah my prob was a Aquapuss and a CE-2 both at 15v. Couldn't tap it as one pump couldn't run both due to current draw. Ended up running the AP at 9v :( The other one had a Klone and a Fatpants in. I just ran the FP at 9v there (9v straight to the 18v pad bypasses the pump). Could have tapped it, but by that point I was annoyed enough that I couldn't be bothered.
Since the idea is to run this as a board-in-a-box, you could get an appropriate output AC-AC wall wart transformer and then with a bridge rectifier a couple of regulators and a few caps you could setup all the voltage output levels you will need.
do you mean, use an 18v regulated power, ditch the pumps, and drop it down to 9v where necessary?
Basically do this http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_ps_rps_sc.pdf (http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_ps_rps_sc.pdf) for each voltage level you need. But you only need the one transformer and bridge rectifier and that can feed multiple voltage regulators. You'd probably only need one for 9V and one for whatever your high voltage was (18V). And then the individual effects could be chained off of there like the diagram shows.
The main difference though is that you can use an AC-AC wall wart transformer instead of an internal transformer and that will save a ton of space in the box. I'm building a bench power supply based off the same idea and I can put up a pdf of the schematic if you'd like.
I have one of these http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Triad-Magnetics/WAU12-1500/?qs=%2fha2pyFadui7nkAlehm3pXK75oG1ctRT1Ik1vprsTVM%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Triad-Magnetics/WAU12-1500/?qs=%2fha2pyFadui7nkAlehm3pXK75oG1ctRT1Ik1vprsTVM%3d). It's 12V AC output. and that'll get you to 18V DC, but that's not quite enough for putting an 18V regulator on. So, you'd probably need a little bit higher voltage output (about 15V AC) to do a regulated 18V out. I was only looking to get 15V or so for my bench supply.
The rectifier I'm using is one of these http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Semiconductors/W06G-E4-51/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtQ8nqTKtFS%2fMRt2%2f0z7BctX3ql6TMT0n0%3d (http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Semiconductors/W06G-E4-51/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtQ8nqTKtFS%2fMRt2%2f0z7BctX3ql6TMT0n0%3d)
Thanks Rob, really apreciate your help, a schematic would be awesome, as much as this is a practical tool, it's a learning tool. Nothing like biting off more than you can chew!
OK, here's the schematic, but first I've got to warn you that I've only bread boarded it so far. I hope to etch it and box it this weekend though because my old workstation power supply died. It does work on the breadboard though and the idea is simple enough.
Here's the link http://www.musicunfolding.com/graphics/PS_Bench.pdf (http://www.musicunfolding.com/graphics/PS_Bench.pdf)
This is going to be more complicated than you'll want. I wanted two outputs with variable voltage levels and that's what the two based on the LM317's are. You could just leave these off entirely. You'd just take the two fixed regulators and set them at the voltage that you need, 9V and 18V say. The regulators should have heatsinks on them and you need to get an AC transformer that gives you the right level to get to whatever your max voltage is that you want. That 18V designation on my diagram is an unloaded level and the regulator needs some headroom too. So, with the power supply I'm using, about 15V is a max.
This project from MFOS gives a bit of detail on what's going on. http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/index.php?MAINTAB=SYNTHDIY&PROJARG=WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPLY.php&VPW=1132&VPH=573 (http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/index.php?MAINTAB=SYNTHDIY&PROJARG=WALLWARTSUPPLY/WALLWARTSUPPLY.php&VPW=1132&VPH=573). It's for a bipolar supply and is aimed at synths, so it's a bit different, but the concepts are the same. The main difference is that since he's going for a bipolar supply from a wall wart, he can only do half wave rectification. So, he needs a lot more capacitance to filter the supply. When I was testing mine, the 1000µF paralleled with the 220µF seemed to be plenty clean for guitar effects.
Looks like i've got a bit of reading to do! Thanks dude!
Quote from: hammerheadmusicman on July 19, 2013, 11:30:25 AM
Looks like i've got a bit of reading to do! Thanks dude!
You're welcome. There's always more to learn, and that's the good part. Part of my wanting to do this was to start working with AC and I figured that it was better to start with 12 to 15 VAC than it would be with 120 or 240.
Less of a jolt when you touch the wrong bit ;)
So i've been messing around with a scale drawing, and seeing how it all fits together.
I definitely ditching the tuner, save space - more effects! ;) Going to have several effects loops along the way, tuner, wah, anything else..
I and toying with putting the 1776 Multiplex in, as i have a board kicking around at home, and it seems to be a really great delay, and versatile too - which is what this project is all about.
So, The list is looking like this so far..
1) Compressor (Afterlife)
2) Fatpants v2 (think i may just have this as an 'always on' preamp, set with trimmers)
3) Shoot the Moon Tremelo (I'm having some 1590A boards fabbed)
4) Nautilus (amazing pedal - I've done an SMD layout in eagle that fits easily in a 125b or maybe 1590b can't remember)
5) Klon Centaur (True Bypass)
6) Zen Drive (I'm having some 1590A boards fabbed)
7) MultiPlex
8 ) Boost - Maybe Thunderpuss
There is room for another one maybe two effects.. I was thinking of perhaps putting a heavier distortion in there for the real rock stuff, like a Riot! maybe, as i have one of the early Riot's and it just sounds amazing with humbuckers!
Anyone got any views on what else could go in there?
I'm missing some modulation, any room left for a Porkbarrel? Or, if space is an issue, a Smoothie or Grind's Tourbillon.
Paul
I was thinking about that this morning Paul, I really would like a chorus in there, i don't really tend to use one as much as i should though, at the minute on the gig i'm on, i could only bring my pedal train nano, and i've been using my lovepedal picklevibe instead.
I could be swayed for a smoothie quite easily, as it has a small footprint!
Think we may have a winner,
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=5395.0
Smoothie, with a vibe/phase switch.
Nice, Hammerhead! Think I'll give that mod a try on my Smoothie. That one is actually supposed to go in a 4-in-1 multi fx box (Boost-Thunderpuss, switchable between first in line or last, OD-Egghead, with switchable clipping, Distortion+ with switchable clipping, fx loop for adding stuff, and last the Smoothie, which has just gained a switch for itself...) I'm planning, in a 1590DD. Should fit.....
Paul
That should be fine in that enclosure, the way i'm doing these mammoth beast, is to have two looper boxes - 1032l, bolted together, but so that it is two rows, but the back is going to be raised up, perhaps with thick rubber feet on the base maybe? So that the back row is a higher tier of pedals. and then i an have all of the sockets on the back of the first tier (in, ou, FX loops, tuner etc), with the lead coming out from underneath the second tier at the back, if that makes any sense at all?
Do let me know when you try that smoothie mod, as i'm not going to be able to for a couple of months, that's why i'm meticulously planning all this while i'm away!
There's a 1590a cardinal layout on PedalGeeks. You could use it for trem, kinda phaser, and kinda vibe (the center off switch version). It's all 1/8w resistors, though, and it's not as phasery as a real phaser. But it could save some space.
By the way, the depth pot mod on the smoothie would also give you vibe sounds. It's a little more versatile than the cap switch IMO.
Thanks Jon! Will research that right away, as it is too hot to do any building. But then again, in the shade, cold beer within range, laptop in front of me (for said research) and a big BBQ in the near future isn't bad either!!
Paul
Quote from: midwayfair on July 21, 2013, 02:59:44 PM
There's a 1590a cardinal layout on PedalGeeks. You could use it for trem, kinda phaser, and kinda vibe (the center off switch version). It's all 1/8w resistors, though, and it's not as phasery as a real phaser. But it could save some space.
By the way, the depth pot mod on the smoothie would also give you vibe sounds. It's a little more versatile than the cap switch IMO.
Do you think it's worth having both mods, depth pot and cap switch? As i'ce not built the smoothie at all, i'm not sure.
EDIT: Also, where can i find info on the depth pot mod?
thanks
George
I actually have some phase 45's that I had fabbed that include the depth pot mod and PCB mounted pots. If you are interested in one I have some more that should be coming in this week. If you want to check out the board and a demo take a look at Jimilee's build report on the Galacticon...
PM incoming!