madbeanpedals::forum

Projects => General Questions => Topic started by: Vallhagen on July 30, 2013, 09:29:12 PM

Title: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Vallhagen on July 30, 2013, 09:29:12 PM
Hi.

I just unwrapped my last parcel from Banzai Music, a bunch of our common jacks, pots, caps... and... wrong legged trimmers :o ??? :'( ...

This gets me nuts. I order most of my parts from Banzaimusic, and almost Always i buy a few trimmers. And - this is my Point - i ALWAYS order a model with wrong leg spacing configuration. Too long distance between the 1-3 bassline and pin 2. (Here, to me the "right" leg configuration is the standard size mostly used on the madbean pcb-s)

So... can someone Point me to the right trimmer on Banzai's page? I would be truly thankful. Link:
http://www.banzaimusic.com/Trimpots/ (http://www.banzaimusic.com/Trimpots/)
... this time i orderred "Piher PT10". Wrong again ;D

Thanx in advance!

Edit: Subject change!
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: croquet hoop on July 30, 2013, 09:51:03 PM
When you say "the right spacing", you mean the same as these ones ? http://www.taydaelectronics.com/potentiometer-variable-resistors/cermet-potentiometers/3362p.html (which have the right footprint for the cupcake pcb (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/Cupcake/docs/Cupcake.pdf), for reference)

Looks like all trimpots from banzai have the same leg configuration. They don't show the underside of some of them, but as they look similar to the Piher PT10 you ordered (except for the size) I think they're a no-go as well.
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: GermanCdn on July 30, 2013, 10:00:03 PM
If memory serves from when I had the same order issues from Banzai, I think you want the Piher PT6.

But FWIW, you might as well order the ones from Tayda and bend the single lug back a bit to fit.  It works as well (the $0.06 trimmer, not the $0.19).
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Vallhagen on July 30, 2013, 11:41:03 PM
Quote from: croquet hoop on July 30, 2013, 09:51:03 PM
..(which have the right footprint for the cupcake pcb (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/Cupcake/docs/Cupcake.pdf), for reference)
..

Correct reference, exactly what i mean.
Quote from: GermanCdn on July 30, 2013, 10:00:03 PM
If memory serves from when I had the same order issues from Banzai, I think you want the Piher PT6.

But FWIW, you might as well order the ones from Tayda and bend the single lug back a bit to fit.  It works as well (the $0.06 trimmer, not the $0.19).

hmm. but they don't really fit either. Yes it works to bend the leg back a bit, thats what i do now, but it is unnecessary tricky just for a cheap Component.

But hey, tayda was cheap on those. It must be exactly the same model that banzai sells for 0.31EURO. I never have orderred from tayda, i should try them out.

Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: RobA on July 31, 2013, 12:25:57 AM
I've got some of those Banzai trimpots. I can't use 'em in anything. I've got some other trimmers that I ordered from Rapid and the leg spacing is perfect, but the pin size is so huge I have to file them down to fit in anything. They are useless too.

These are the guys that Tayda has that work well.
http://www.taydaelectronics.com/potentiometer-variable-resistors/cermet-potentiometers/3362p.html (http://www.taydaelectronics.com/potentiometer-variable-resistors/cermet-potentiometers/3362p.html)

As was mentioned above, they fit the Cupcake perfectly (as well as most other PCB's) and they work really well. Tayda's price on these are dead cheap and the quality is good.

It's really hard to beat Tayda's pricing on Alpha pots. That alone keeps me ordering stuff from them. I always toss in a few of the trimmers from them with every order. 

Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Vallhagen on July 31, 2013, 07:25:52 AM
Thanx RobA for sharing your experience too. it seems quite clear that Tayda is the way to go on trimmers.

I just have to look up shipping costs to sweden.

Cheers:)
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: twin1965 on July 31, 2013, 07:27:56 PM
There's a few other places in Germany that do these. Maybe not such a large selection but if they have the values then you should get them on the post fairly quickly.

http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?cPath=62_84_330&osCsid=d78b8427419f1746db1c377a389ad49c

http://www.musikding.de/Trimm-Pots-1-4

I've only just discovered these guys here in the UK. Haven't ordered anything from them yet.

http://spiratronics.com/resistors-and-potentiometers/variable-resistors/preset-potentiometers/in-single-turn-horizontal-cermet-potentiometers.html#1

I too have ordered the wrong trimmers on more than a few occasions!
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Vallhagen on July 31, 2013, 08:11:04 PM
Quote from: twin1965 on July 31, 2013, 07:27:56 PM
...
I too have ordered the wrong trimmers on more than a few occasions!

...obviously we are more than youst me!  ;D

Actually i remember a clever thing from my very first build, the OD2 from BYOC; they have 5 solder pads for the trimmers (two pads for pin 1 and 3 respectively), which then accepted different trimmer designs.

Thanx for the links as well. I know of Musikding since earlier, but not the others:)

Cheers
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: RobA on July 31, 2013, 10:05:52 PM
I built a universal trimmer part for my library. It'll fit pretty much any trimmer in it -- except those giant things from Banzai.
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Vallhagen on August 01, 2013, 11:18:42 AM
Quote from: RobA on July 31, 2013, 10:05:52 PM
I built a universal trimmer part for my library. It'll fit pretty much any trimmer in it -- except those giant things from Banzai.

...care to share:) ? ... It wont solve my problem this second, but indeed good for future projects.
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Cortexturizer on August 01, 2013, 11:22:41 AM
I've seen this "Moron" in the thread name one too many times, and it wasn't even remotely a moronic question!
I vote for it to be removed from the thread that our good Swede has created!
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: RobA on August 01, 2013, 11:32:08 AM
Quote from: Vallhagen on August 01, 2013, 11:18:42 AM
Quote from: RobA on July 31, 2013, 10:05:52 PM
I built a universal trimmer part for my library. It'll fit pretty much any trimmer in it -- except those giant things from Banzai.

...care to share:) ? ... It wont solve my problem this second, but indeed good for future projects.
I'd be happy to share, but I don't think it would do anyone any good because I think I'm the only one here not using Eagle. I do need to get my library cleaned up and presentable in case anyone might want to use it though.
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: kothoma on August 01, 2013, 11:33:57 AM
Quote from: RobA on August 01, 2013, 11:32:08 AM
Quote from: Vallhagen on August 01, 2013, 11:18:42 AM
Quote from: RobA on July 31, 2013, 10:05:52 PM
I built a universal trimmer part for my library. It'll fit pretty much any trimmer in it -- except those giant things from Banzai.

...care to share:) ? ... It wont solve my problem this second, but indeed good for future projects.
I'd be happy to share, but I don't think it would do anyone any good because I think I'm the only one here not using Eagle. I do need to get my library cleaned up and presentable in case anyone might want to use it though.

Is it something like this?

o-o
o-o-o
o-o
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Vallhagen on August 01, 2013, 11:47:14 AM
Quote from: Cortexturizer on August 01, 2013, 11:22:41 AM
I've seen this "Moron" in the thread name one too many times, and it wasn't even remotely a moronic question!
I vote for it to be removed from the thread that our good Swede has created!

All respect! For a second i thought about changing it to möron, but i changed my mind;)

RobA...Ah ok, you are not in EAGLE... then maybe i should give it a try myself, it will cause me to learn even more abt EAGLE...

kothoma: Yea, something like that. Or a little mor simplified, like this:

o-o
     o
o-o
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: kothoma on August 01, 2013, 11:52:27 AM
Quote from: Vallhagen on August 01, 2013, 11:47:14 AM
Yea, something like that. Or a little mor simplified, like this:

o-o
     o
o-o

Right, I always thought this should be enough, but then I saw this 7 hole version on some board a short while ago.
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Vallhagen on August 01, 2013, 01:00:27 PM
Quote from: kothoma on August 01, 2013, 11:52:27 AM
Quote from: Vallhagen on August 01, 2013, 11:47:14 AM
Yea, something like that. Or a little mor simplified, like this:

o-o
     o
o-o

Right, I always thought this should be enough, but then I saw this 7 hole version on some board a short while ago.

Actually, that 7-hole version also covers for "one-line" trimmers, which gives one advantage;
o
o
o
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: kothoma on August 01, 2013, 01:46:33 PM
Quote from: Vallhagen on August 01, 2013, 01:00:27 PM
Quote from: kothoma on August 01, 2013, 11:52:27 AM
Quote from: Vallhagen on August 01, 2013, 11:47:14 AM
Yea, something like that. Or a little mor simplified, like this:

o-o
    o
o-o

Right, I always thought this should be enough, but then I saw this 7 hole version on some board a short while ago.

Actually, that 7-hole version also covers for "one-line" trimmers, which gives one advantage;
o
o
o

Yes, these would be covered in two places, and now that I think about it, you also have two options  (three actually...) to place the 5x2.5mm ones. Don't know if this is useful.
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: RobA on August 01, 2013, 02:01:24 PM
7 holes!? I'm missing something. There must be some trimmer that mine won't work with. Mine has six and it goes like this,

 2  
1 2 3
1    3

Putting the middle 2 in covers the all in a line multi-turn trim pots.  

Edit:
I'd missed that this discussion had gone on to a new page and you guys had already covered all this. I shall now adopt the moron moniker for myself ;D.

Actually, möron is a good name for a metal-punk band.
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: kothoma on August 01, 2013, 02:04:15 PM
Quote from: RobA on August 01, 2013, 02:01:24 PM
7 holes!? I'm missing something. There must be some trimmer that mine won't work with. Mine has six and it goes like this,

 2  
1 2 3
1    3

Putting the middle 2 in covers the all in a line multi-turn trim pots.  

I'd say that's good enough for rock (or jazz). (Or metal-punk).
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: RobA on August 01, 2013, 02:08:58 PM
Quote from: kothoma on August 01, 2013, 02:04:15 PM
Quote from: RobA on August 01, 2013, 02:01:24 PM
7 holes!? I'm missing something. There must be some trimmer that mine won't work with. Mine has six and it goes like this,

 2  
1 2 3
1    3

Putting the middle 2 in covers the all in a line multi-turn trim pots.  

I'd say that's good enough for rock (or jazz). (Or metal-punk).

Hmm- I think it'll only work for waltzes. (That's a pun. I think?)
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: kothoma on August 01, 2013, 02:14:06 PM
Quote from: RobA on August 01, 2013, 02:08:58 PM
Quote from: kothoma on August 01, 2013, 02:04:15 PM
Quote from: RobA on August 01, 2013, 02:01:24 PM
7 holes!? I'm missing something. There must be some trimmer that mine won't work with. Mine has six and it goes like this,

 2  
1 2 3
1    3

Putting the middle 2 in covers the all in a line multi-turn trim pots.  

I'd say that's good enough for rock (or jazz). (Or metal-punk).

Hmm- I think it'll only work for waltzes. (That's a pun. I think?)

In that case I opt for 9 holes. Just to be save. ;)
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Vallhagen on August 01, 2013, 02:41:37 PM
I now promise to produce the song
the sixlegged möron trimmer waltz.

Any week.

Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: kothoma on August 01, 2013, 02:47:45 PM
Quote from: Vallhagen on August 01, 2013, 02:41:37 PM
I now promise to produce the song
the sixlegged möron trimmer waltz.

Any week.

:) Almost fell off my chair! :) Hope to hear it soon!

A propos, does Tayda carry these sixlegged möron trimmers?
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Vallhagen on August 01, 2013, 06:58:08 PM
Quote from: kothoma on August 01, 2013, 02:47:45 PM

A propos, does Tayda carry these sixlegged möron trimmers?

I dunnow. I also called Lëmmy, that old Morönhead bassplayer you know, and he didnt know either ;D.

***

On the serious side; thanx guys. I just placed my first-ever-order at tayda, and in about a week or so i will have enuff trrrrrrrimmmeeerrrrrsssss to cover my needs for the rest of my Life, and it feels like it cost me nothing, or there about:)
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: RobA on August 01, 2013, 07:39:16 PM
Quote from: Vallhagen on August 01, 2013, 06:58:08 PM
...
I dunnow. I also called Lëmmy, that old Morönhead bassplayer you know, and he didnt know either ;D.
...

;D. Now I nearly feel of my chair.

[Motörhead was my son's favorite band when he was 5.]
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: m-Kresol on October 09, 2013, 07:45:23 PM
Hey guys.
sorry to reopen this old topic, but from what I read we haven't really found a solution to the problem at hand by now. As I just ordered the LowRider and ZeroPoint SDX PCBs, I'm putting my BOM together and now I've been wondering if there's one kind of "universal trim pot" that is used in the madbean projects, like 5mm, 10mm, 15mm or 1/4'' (these are the kind that musikding.de offers, which is where I'll order the parts).
Does anyone know which trimmers fit?

Also, i was wandering if the pin spacing of the capacitors is always 5mm. I guess, the smaller the bigger since you can just bend the pins if the spacing is bigger...
Since I already started asking, i've got one more: For the zeropoint SDX there's a suggestion MLCC capacitor. In what way are the different from regular film capacitors?
Thanks
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Vallhagen on October 09, 2013, 08:38:13 PM
Quote from: m-Kresol on October 09, 2013, 07:45:23 PM
Hey guys.
sorry to reopen this old topic, but from what I read we haven't really found a solution to the problem at hand by now. As I just ordered the LowRider and ZeroPoint SDX PCBs, I'm putting my BOM together and now I've been wondering if there's one kind of "universal trim pot" that is used in the madbean projects, like 5mm, 10mm, 15mm or 1/4'' (these are the kind that musikding.de offers, which is where I'll order the parts).
Does anyone know which trimmers fit?

Also, i was wandering if the pin spacing of the capacitors is always 5mm. I guess, the smaller the bigger since you can just bend the pins if the spacing is bigger...
Since I already started asking, i've got one more: For the zeropoint SDX there's a suggestion MLCC capacitor. In what way are the different from regular film capacitors?
Thanks

Nothing wrong with bumping a good old thread;) ...

Yes, it looks like there is some kind of "universal" size for MB projects. I myself "gave up" and ordered a serious bunch of trimmers from Tayda. they are cheap and good. And correct! Links above.

It looks like musikdings 1/4" trimmers are correct: http://www.musikding.de/Trimm-pot-1-4-10k (http://www.musikding.de/Trimm-pot-1-4-10k) ... But don't take me for granted... I have ordered wrongsized trimmers more than once... ::)

Caps: As long as we talk box/film caps, range 1 nF to 1uF, yes 5mm leg spacing is "de facto" standard. Smaller ceramics can be 2.5mm or 5mm, but it really doesn't matter, you can bend the ceramic 2.5mm cap legs to fit 5mm hole spacing and vice versa.

Cheers:)
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: m-Kresol on October 09, 2013, 08:42:49 PM
Thanks a lot for your fast response!
I guess, I'll try the 1/4'' trim poti and if it doesn't fit, I'll either make it fit or go whining to our electrician at work, he might have the correct one in stock just for safety ;)
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Vallhagen on October 09, 2013, 08:58:03 PM
Sounds like you have a good backüpplan;)

Keep up the good work:)

Cheers
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Diamond on October 10, 2013, 06:43:33 AM
What the hell are you guys complaining about? I always use the small piher trimpots in Madbean projects (Lowrider, Colosalus, etc). You just have to bend the legs back a little and they fit perfectly!

I also used one of these for the first time in my Stage Fright: http://www.banzaimusic.com/Other-Trimpots/ Fits beautifully, but again, you have to bend the legs back a little.

These precision trimpots fit instantly: http://www.banzaimusic.com/Vishay-Trimpots/ but I don't really like them, because you can't 'see' what your setting is on them.
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Stomptown on October 10, 2013, 07:12:29 AM
Quote from: m-Kresol on October 09, 2013, 07:45:23 PM
For the zeropoint SDX there's a suggestion MLCC capacitor. In what way are the different from regular film capacitors?
Thanks

Usually, Madbean uses MLCC's in place of 1uF box caps. The 1uF box caps are much larger (wider and taller) than the other commonly used box caps and this causes issues when:

1) trying to make a PCB as small as possible so it will fit in a specific enclosure size. This is the issue with the ZP SDX. He has made the layout as tight as possible just to make the PCB small enough to fit in the 1590BB.  In this case, the width of the 1uF box cap is the issue.

-or-

2) when designing for a small enclosure (i.e. 1590A). In this case, the 1uF box cap is simply too tall to fit in the enclosure.

In the end you need 1uF MLCC's because standard 1uF box caps will not fit between neighboring components on the pcb. You want to find 1uF MLCC's with 5mm lead spacing. They can be found at many of the usual suppliers:

http://www.taydaelectronics.com/1uf-50v-multilayer-ceramic-capacitor.html
http://www.mammothelectronics.com/328-VCT41H-Capacitors-p/328-vct41h.htm

I'm guessing mouser carries them too but I'm too tired to search for them  ;)

Hope this helps.

Jon W
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: Tremster on October 10, 2013, 08:36:38 AM
Quote from: m-Kresol on October 09, 2013, 07:45:23 PM
Hey guys.
sorry to reopen this old topic, but from what I read we haven't really found a solution to the problem at hand by now. As I just ordered the LowRider and ZeroPoint SDX PCBs, I'm putting my BOM together and now I've been wondering if there's one kind of "universal trim pot" that is used in the madbean projects, like 5mm, 10mm, 15mm or 1/4'' (these are the kind that musikding.de offers, which is where I'll order the parts).
Does anyone know which trimmers fit?

Also, i was wandering if the pin spacing of the capacitors is always 5mm. I guess, the smaller the bigger since you can just bend the pins if the spacing is bigger...
Since I already started asking, i've got one more: For the zeropoint SDX there's a suggestion MLCC capacitor. In what way are the different from regular film capacitors?
Thanks
Quote from: twin1965 on July 31, 2013, 07:27:56 PM
There's a few other places in Germany that do these. Maybe not such a large selection but if they have the values then you should get them on the post fairly quickly.

http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?cPath=62_84_330&osCsid=d78b8427419f1746db1c377a389ad49c

I had the exact same problem with Banzai and have lots of unusable trimmers here. But as Twin1965 say, UK is the way to go, these and these:
http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?cPath=62_84_330&osCsid=d78b8427419f1746db1c377a389ad49c (http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?cPath=62_84_330&osCsid=d78b8427419f1746db1c377a389ad49c)
http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?cPath=62_84_329&osCsid=d78b8427419f1746db1c377a389ad49c (http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?cPath=62_84_329&osCsid=d78b8427419f1746db1c377a389ad49c)
A grid of 5x2,5mm is the right spacing for all of Madbean's and most other PCBs I've built so far.
TH Custom PCBs, at least those I've built, use 5x5 mm trimmers, so it's handy to have ordered wrong ones before.
Title: Re: Moron question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: kothoma on October 10, 2013, 11:05:42 AM
Quote from: Tremster on October 10, 2013, 08:36:38 AM
http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?cPath=62_84_330&osCsid=d78b8427419f1746db1c377a389ad49c (http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?cPath=62_84_330&osCsid=d78b8427419f1746db1c377a389ad49c)
http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?cPath=62_84_329&osCsid=d78b8427419f1746db1c377a389ad49c (http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/index.php?cPath=62_84_329&osCsid=d78b8427419f1746db1c377a389ad49c)
A grid of 5x2,5mm is the right spacing for all of Madbean's and most other PCBs I've built so far.

Yeah, most of the time I use exactly these.
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: croquet hoop on October 10, 2013, 12:55:03 PM
Quote from: Stomptown on October 10, 2013, 07:12:29 AMI'm guessing mouser carries them too but I'm too tired to search for them  ;)

Here you go. 1 uF MLCC, 50V, 10% tolerance, 5mm spacing, X7R dielectric.

http://fr.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Ceramic-Capacitors/Multilayer-Ceramic-Capacitors-MLCC-Leaded/_/N-4gzxj?P=1z0wrj5Z1z0x6d8Z1z0x83kZ1z0z7l5Z1yzt489Z1z0vn48Z1z0vn3c&Ns=Pricing|0
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: kothoma on October 10, 2013, 01:01:57 PM
Quote from: croquet hoop on October 10, 2013, 12:55:03 PM
Quote from: Stomptown on October 10, 2013, 07:12:29 AMI'm guessing mouser carries them too but I'm too tired to search for them  ;)

Here you go. 1 uF MLCC, 50V, 10% tolerance, 5mm spacing, X7R dielectric.

http://fr.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Ceramic-Capacitors/Multilayer-Ceramic-Capacitors-MLCC-Leaded/_/N-4gzxj?P=1z0wrj5Z1z0x6d8Z1z0x83kZ1z0z7l5Z1yzt489Z1z0vn48Z1z0vn3c&Ns=Pricing|0

You don't need 5mm ones, the legs can easily be bent.
Last time I used these:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/100pcs-Monolithic-Ceramic-Chip-Capacitor-1uF-105-50V-/110947966904?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19d5039fb8 (100 pcs for US$3.22 including shipping)
Title: Re: The most important question of the day! ...about trimmers
Post by: m-Kresol on October 26, 2013, 04:20:50 PM
Thanks a lot!
I already found all the components I need, hopefully they arrive early next week. Unfortunately, the 1uF MLCCs are not as easy to source as regular film capacitors, but I managed to find some, even if they are rather expensive. I guess they will be worth the money :)