Maybe I am doing something wrong but given my repetitive nature, repetitive nature I am inclined to think I'm doing something wrong. I'll go through the process of print decal, clear coat decal, apply decal and it will work perfectly. Next time, same process and the decal won't come off the backing right, will tear, will get bubbly, or a variety of other reasons. I hate the process! Is there a better way! I like that a well applied decal gives, but the screw ups are getting pricey.
Sorry more of a rant than anything. Maybe if I could just get the decals off the backing more consistently I'd be set. Is there an ideal water temp, clear coat, or other I should consider?
Soak it in Luke warm water a little bit longer.
A strange thing that I noticed is that it is much easier to apply if you trim the decal to size after clear coat. When I did it the other way round it didn't want to come off. I assume its from sealing the sides.
Quote from: ThePastRecedes on July 31, 2013, 12:25:00 AM
A strange thing that I noticed is that it is much easier to apply if you trim the decal to size after clear coat. When I did it the other way round it didn't want to come off. I assume its from sealing the sides.
yep, that's what I do too
Who's Luke and what so special about his water? :D
Really, cutting after clear. huh. So maybe trimming it seals the edges like you say. So how do you trim after? Doesn't it leave a mark? I assume you are using an exacto knife.
Nope, just regular old scissors, I'm not sure what kind of marks to which you refer. I do 3 coats of clear. let it dry, apply to the enclosure and let it sit over night. When I don't let it sit over night, it gets all f'd up.
Luke is the god of water in bowl meant for waterslide decal removal. Not really Greek mythology, more polish mythology, probably why you've never heard of him. ::)
Oh wait I think I misunderstood. I thought you guys meant you are cutting the decal down to size after it was applied to the enclosure.
Yeah - currently I print, clear, dry, cut, then apply. Well when it works anyway.
One thing I know is the only consistently good WS decal paper I have ever used has been from PPP. I have tried several others but always go back to what PPP sells. It doesn't stretch when removing from liner and always seams to come off clean and easy. Probably done ~75 pedals or so with it having good results.
What decal paper are you using?
I think chromsphere has a video tutorial on the subject
I've been using the testors paper that I have found locally. And yes it does stretch significantly.
Here is what I have been buying....http://www.ebay.com/itm/160845963632?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Done lots with no problems also.
Keep the clear coat fairly thin. This will make the decal a little less stretchy (I know that sounds backwards) and the BEST tip that's often overlooked is to add a drop (don't overdo it) of dishwashing liquid to the water. It makes everything slide better and gives you a bunch more time to move the decal if needed.
Quote from: GhostofJohnToad on July 31, 2013, 01:25:06 AM
I've been using the testors paper that I have found locally.
This would be the problem, IMHO.
I used Testors for a long time, and the adhesive on that stuff is just plain awful. Sometimes it sticks fine, sometimes it doesn't stick AT ALL. I tried tweaking the process several different ways, but it's just plain inconsistent. I switched to Papillo stock and never looked back. It actually feels thicker/beefier and sticks considerably better.. haven't had to do a reapplication since.
fwiw, i never clearcoat Before i apply the decal.
Quote from: Vallhagen on July 31, 2013, 07:30:07 AM
fwiw, i never clearcoat Before i apply the decal.
Ditto. I use laser decals now, but even before I got my laser I never clearcoated first.
Quote from: bcalla on July 31, 2013, 12:43:31 PM
Quote from: Vallhagen on July 31, 2013, 07:30:07 AM
fwiw, i never clearcoat Before i apply the decal.
Ditto. I use laser decals now, but even before I got my laser I never clearcoated first.
this works with inkjet also, but the colors aren't nearly as vivid.;-)
Well I'm going to get some different paper, I think testors quality control may be the issue. Early on I had no issues, but it seems like this new pack just sucks.
Im using lazer print decal and does not require the first clear coat process! I dont know if i was lucky ( im not a lucky guy) but it work great and u can grab ur finger to adjust it iver the substrate with no problem! Have u tried the lazer print ones?
Has anybody tried the sheets Smallbear sells?
I have not tried laser. I don't have access to one. Stuck with ink jet for the moment. Curious about the smallbear paper as well.
I've used the clear waterslide from Small Bear. It's good quality--any goofs were due strictly to me.
Quote from: GhostofJohnToad on July 31, 2013, 04:57:29 PM
I have not tried laser. I don't have access to one. Stuck with ink jet for the moment. Curious about the smallbear paper as well.
Get a graphic and I'll get one lasered for you.
I've had issues where the edges would curl up as it slid off the backing paper....unless the edges had ink printing on them. So now I always print a border and cut at the edges of the border.
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Quote from: GhostofJohnToad on July 31, 2013, 04:57:29 PM
I have not tried laser. I don't have access to one. Stuck with ink jet for the moment. Curious about the smallbear paper as well.
I tried the Smallbear stuff and honestly it was very stretchy compared to PPP stuff. I could not get along with it very well. But YMMV, never know till you give it a try
I use Micro-Mark decal paper (lazer), I've had very good success with it. I've done some very large 1590DD enclosures without stretching issues.
Josh
Any problems I had with Testors was usually due to rushing the process
I have some laser decal paper from decalpaper.com, and I'm not very happy with it. The decals are extremely fragile.
However, I recently picked up a 10-sheet pack of bake-on laser decal paper from papilio.com, and I'm very impressed. The decal plastic seems *much* sturdier. I also bought a little squirt bottle of "decal mounting fluid", which is a somewhat goopy substance that makes it way easy to arrange the decal after placement. Even after most of the decal mounting goop dries, it's still possible to work bubbles out from under the decal. Baking the decal on seems to seal it very securely; even a test decal on which I did an absolutely terrible job baked on quite firmly even though it has huge bubbles in it.
I also ordered a cheap printmaking roller ("brayer") for bubble removal, as that's a pain in the neck.
I ordered papillo paper like Pointy. I get it from ebay. It's just great and it never failed....exept when I apply a very tiny logo on the front.....but it's my fault....maybe I should try the stuff mentioned in the previous reply...
Smallbear sheets seem good, but I still have a bad experience with it.....probably because I just ordered 2 sheets and it's been damage in the shipping >:(
You can safely buy from this link : http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10-Sheets-Waterslide-Decal-Paper-You-Choose-White-or-Clear-Inkjet-or-Laser-/110908378050?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item19d2a78bc2 (http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10-Sheets-Waterslide-Decal-Paper-You-Choose-White-or-Clear-Inkjet-or-Laser-/110908378050?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item19d2a78bc2)
They take care when they ship the merch and they give good service !
Cheers !
Quote from: jonnyrockgear on August 06, 2013, 03:20:51 PM
They take care when they ship the merch and they give good service !
Cheers !
And most of all....they're not 2$ each sheet !! That's a point ! ;)
Hey Toad, you might already know all this, maybe your problems are the brand of paper your using, or something like that. Just thought i would put it in for you / anyone else having trouble with waterslides.
Dont get me wrong, im not a pro at it. I still have the odd ??? moment. But i have gotten much better at it with practice. Hope it helps!
Paul
Quote from: jonnyrockgear on August 06, 2013, 03:20:51 PM
You can safely buy from this link : ...
I don't want to discourage ordering from that ebay seller, but I do want to make it clear that there's a difference between the plain water-slide laser decal paper, and the
bake-on water-slide laser decal paper. I don't know what happens if you try to bake the ordinary stuff, but I bet it wouldn't be a pretty sight.
The bake-on paper from Papilio explicitly says that on the packaging.
That bake-on stuff is for ceramics. I never used it on a pedal. Its usually a little bit hazy till you bake it and it comes out super vivid and nice demention
Well it definitely works on pedals, though it's probably prudent to bake the bottom lid of the pedal first if it's a painted surface, just to see if the paint will melt or ignite :)
Iv'e had pretty good results with the decalpaper.com stuff. It seems to hold up pretty well although you have to be careful with it. I am using a color laser printer which I picked up of of Craigslist for $50.
A good trick is to let is soak for a while then slip about 1/4" of the decal backing down. I like to then put the overhanging decal on the enclosure and carefully hold it while slipping the backing off. If you soaked it enough, it shouldn't stretch much.
I also like the "Micro Sol" and "Micro Set" fluids which you can find for a few bucks. The Micro Sol softens the decal and really makes it melt into the enclosure nicely.
The toughest thing I have encountered lately is trying to bake the clear powdercoat over the decal. Sometimes it works great and other times it browns. Lately, I have been powdercoating my own enclosures, applying decal, then just clear coating with a rattle can to avoid any issues.
Quote from: rullywowr on August 07, 2013, 03:26:49 PM
I also like the "Micro Sol" and "Micro Set" fluids which you can find for a few bucks. The Micro Sol softens the decal and really makes it melt into the enclosure nicely.
Where do get these Micro Sol and Micro Set fluids?
I gave up on them very quickly. I find they either browned in the oven with a powder coat clear, or cracked under the clear. I used the laser ones in the hope they would withstand the heat but still no luck.
Thankfully I've found a place that does laser engraving, and after a lot of teething problems, my boxes finally look good!
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Quote from: aeroemi on January 21, 2014, 08:42:16 AM
Where do get these Micro Sol and Micro Set fluids?
Not sure where to get these 2 products, but check with hobby suppliers (plastic model ships, cars, airplanes, etc.). I worked in a hobby shop in high school & college & we carried them. I use a similar product called Solvaset which is available from Walthers model railroad catalog.
I have generally had good luck with water slides. I had one time when it just plain wouldn't stick to the enclosure.
One trick that I learned (I think it was from someone on fsb), when you have the decal applied, I put a soft cloth over the decal and then put the enclosure base on top on it to make sure there is a little bit of pressure on it as it dries.
One of the things that scares me about trying water slides (or stickers, come to that) is learning how to use the Gimp beyond just resize, rotate, crop, and MS-paint style wiring diagrams. That's part of why impressive graphics impress me so much :)
i stopped using Gimp/Photoshop and learned how to use InkScape, which is a free version of Illustrator. It's much more suited to doing pedal layouts IMHO.
as an aside, you can download an older version of photoshop (3.0 i think) from adobe for free now. It's great for doing simple graphics and then you can import them into inkscape for the layouts.
There are also pedal hardware vector packs that are floating around that have accurate representations of different types and colours of knobs, switches, etc.
I know there is a vector pack out there for the Hammond enclosures, but i've only found a pdf file of it, not the .svg.
Quote from: zilla on January 23, 2014, 02:47:11 PM
I know there is a vector pack out there for the Hammond enclosures, but i've only found a pdf file of it, not the .svg.
The Pedal Vectorpack pdf file that's floating around has 5 Hammond sizes:
1590A/1090NS
1590B
125B
1590BB
1790NS
Even though it is a pdf, you can import the page with the enclosure you need into Inkscape & ungroup to get a useable object.
cool! i'll give it a shot.