Hi guys! Long time, no see! There's been a lot of time since I posted a new thread.
To begin with, I've been reading a lot about alternate solution for switching (for example, uC - Relays, Millenium Bypass). The uC - Relay solution with a momentary stomp switch seems like the most trusty, because you won't expect it to break like ever. That's really good. But the cost of uC and relay is a little high, don't you think?
So, we want something cheaper and more available. And I thought: "Why not using logic gates to drive the relay?". You know, logic NOTs, Flip - Flops, etc.
In my Google quest of searching for a circuit like this, I found this article by The Tone God about electronic switches: http://www.thetonegod.com/tech/switches/switches.html (http://www.thetonegod.com/tech/switches/switches.html).
And I am "Holy Cow! That's it!". For me, it seems perfect!
But then again, I have never seen a switch like this in a DIY pedal.
So, the question is why don't we use them more often. They're cheap (The two ICs needed: CD40106 & CD4066 cost something like $0.70), and a daughterboard for this can be made extremely small with the use of SMD ICs.
Start sharing your opinion! ;D
Hector
I have been using them. I like them, but they do take up space. I have not been successful in getting a better layout yet. I would love to someday get a nice tight layout that would fit better and make the connections less spaghetti-like. That could be my own ineptness, though.
There was some discussion of this on another thread: http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=9733.0 (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=9733.0)
Chad
Oh s**t! I missed too many things all this time I was away! So pissed off!
But now I have a lead on this. Thank you, Chad!
So, you do like them. Do they work fine, stable? Did you have any problems?
I don't think PCB size is an issue. At least for me. I'll go ahead and try a single-sided etchable layout using SMD. I expect the size will drop down to at least 2.5cm x 2.5cm. I already did a layout using through-hole parts which is approximately 3cm x 3.7cm. I'll make a new topic for it in the Member Projects forum, when I think it's good enough to publish.
Finally, I think it's the cheapest solution around for silent and durable switching. I'll see what others think about.
Thanks again,Chad!
Hector
I am also about to attempt three of these in a single pedal...I will let you know the outcome :)
Quote from: Cortexturizer on August 03, 2013, 10:59:56 PM
I am also about to attempt three of these in a single pedal...I will let you know the outcome :)
3 of these?? I'm really interested! Really interested for the PCB you used and its size. I'm really struggling to drop my single-sided TH layout below 3cm x 3.7cm! I need to get this smaller, so it can be DIYable! ;)
Hector
Do you think double-sided boards (fabbed by OSH Park for instance) could help reduce the size even more ? I'd have a go at it with Eagle, but I'm not sure I'm reading the schematics correctly. Anyway, I'm quite interested in this solution as well.
Quote from: croquet hoop on August 03, 2013, 11:24:59 PM
Do you think double-sided boards (fabbed by OSH Park for instance) could help reduce the size even more ? I'd have a go at it with Eagle, but I'm not sure I'm reading the schematics correctly. Anyway, I'm quite interested in this solution as well.
Sure, with double sided and SMD, this will be like 2cm x 2cm, I believe. Supposing you lay it out correctly! ;)
I just insist on the single-sided, because I want it to be DIYable. Then again, who is etching PCBs now? Everybody's fabbing their own. But I would like to keep the DIY spirit alive here! ;)
So guys, I managed to shrink a single-sided TH layout to 3cm x 3.4cm. I don't think it's getting smaller. What do you think? Is it small enough?
Hector
Have you seen this? It may interest you.
(http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/ltchrly.gif)
http://www.fredric.co.uk/blog/134-Using-a-latching-relay-driver-for-true-bypass (http://www.fredric.co.uk/blog/134-Using-a-latching-relay-driver-for-true-bypass)
If a board could be laid out with similar dimensions to Plesur's daughterboard in his feta complis (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=8081.0 (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=8081.0)), I'd be interesting in getting half a dozen. Maybe with audio jacks mounted on it (height is not dependant on the 3pdt any more, remember) as well.
This would be a nice setup for top mounted jacks--ostensibly it could shorten wire runs in that situation. I don't have much confidence in my understanding of what's what on the schematic either, but I figure to take a crack at it in Eagle if seeing the actual parts in the schematic editor clears it up.
Quote from: alanp on August 04, 2013, 02:31:01 AM
If a board could be laid out with similar dimensions to Plesur's daughterboard in his feta complis (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=8081.0 (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=8081.0)), I'd be interesting in getting half a dozen. Maybe with audio jacks mounted on it (height is not dependant on the 3pdt any more, remember) as well.
In my opinion, the way to go is this one like Plesur's. A daugtherboard. Not with audio and DC jacks mounted, because you lose the freedom of drilling the enclosure wherever you want. It's more "modular" this way.
I think it can be done this small with fabbed, double-sided TH layout. But it would be even smaller if you used SMD ICs mounted on each side of the board. This would be awesome. I try and layout a couple versions on Eagle, and I'll make a new topic in the Member Projects forum to share them with you. ;)
Hector
Quote from: ThePastRecedes on August 04, 2013, 02:24:08 AM
Have you seen this? It may interest you.
(http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/ltchrly.gif)
http://www.fredric.co.uk/blog/134-Using-a-latching-relay-driver-for-true-bypass (http://www.fredric.co.uk/blog/134-Using-a-latching-relay-driver-for-true-bypass)
It may interest me, but no. I'm not that interested in relays. They seem to be really expensive, from what I've seen. :(
So, it's a no go. Thanks anyway!
Hector
Quote from: Ettore_M on August 04, 2013, 12:01:27 AMSure, with double sided and SMD, this will be like 2cm x 2cm, I believe. Supposing you lay it out correctly! ;)
I just insist on the single-sided, because I want it to be DIYable. Then again, who is etching PCBs now? Everybody's fabbing their own. But I would like to keep the DIY spirit alive here! ;)
Yes, I was suggesting double-sided to reduce size to a minimum (and OSH Park's prices would be interesting for non-etchers given the size of the board), but only as an alternative to the etchable thru-hole layout, not as the best possible choice.
Quote from: Ettore_M on August 04, 2013, 12:01:27 AMSo guys, I managed to shrink a single-sided TH layout to 3cm x 3.4cm. I don't think it's getting smaller. What do you think? Is it small enough?
It should be perfect for most enclosures (except 1590A's). I'll be adding the necessary IC's to my next order, can't wait to try it!
Quote from: croquet hoop on August 04, 2013, 01:21:15 PM
Quote from: Ettore_M on August 04, 2013, 12:01:27 AMSure, with double sided and SMD, this will be like 2cm x 2cm, I believe. Supposing you lay it out correctly! ;)
I just insist on the single-sided, because I want it to be DIYable. Then again, who is etching PCBs now? Everybody's fabbing their own. But I would like to keep the DIY spirit alive here! ;)
Yes, I was suggesting double-sided to reduce size to a minimum (and OSH Park's prices would be interesting for non-etchers given the size of the board), but only as an alternative to the etchable thru-hole layout, not as the best possible choice.
Sorry if I said that wrong. I don't even think that etching is the best solution, only that I think this is the DIY way.
But I'm in for a double-sided layout. In fact, I'm already working on it. I'll go the Plesur's way, a little daughterboard, mounted beside the momentary stomp. Not on the momentary.
So, guys, the question now is if you're in for a SMD challenge. This will get the board even smaller. It may be small enough for a 1590A. Are you in? I'll maybe do 3 layouts either way: a etchable TH single-sided, a double-sided TH, and a double-sided SMD.
Hector
Ill take the SMD challenge!
George
Quote from: DutchMF on August 04, 2013, 05:05:57 PM
Quote from: hammerheadmusicman on August 04, 2013, 03:29:58 PM
Ill take the SMD challenge!
George
Brave man.....
Paul
Hey, Paul! Really. Soldering SMD ICs on a fabbed board is really easy. Couldn't be easier. Just tin all the pads with just a little solder before you start soldering the IC down. It's really simple! :)
If you think that's hard, try a TL074 on a etched board. Been there, done that! ;)
Hector
Thanks for the encouragement Hector, but my hands and eyes can barely handle the through-hole as it is! I remember getting in my first boards and parts and thinking "Crap!! That is waaaayyyy smaller than I thought!!"
Maybe I'll try it some time, but for now, I'm happy that I can build working pedals!
Paul
Quote from: DutchMF on August 04, 2013, 05:43:59 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Hector, but my hands and eyes can barely handle the through-hole as it is! I remember getting in my first boards and parts and thinking "Crap!! That is waaaayyyy smaller than I thought!!"
Maybe I'll try it some time, but for now, I'm happy that I can build working pedals!
Paul
Haha!! You are welcome! :)
You know I said that same thing first time I saw SMD. Maybe it was because I was already used to handle TH parts from lessons in college.
However, you know better. When you feel like taking the next step, I am here for any questions! ;)
Hector
Thanks Hector, you are a cool dude!
Paul
Quote from: DutchMF on August 04, 2013, 07:33:42 PM
Thanks Hector, you are a cool dude!
Paul
Thanks! I'm just trying to give something back to the DIY community. I learned so much throughout the years and I got so much help from people, so I try to offer something in return. ;)
Hector
So guys, I finished the single-sided layout. Its size is 26mm x 42mm. I believe it fits standing on the side below the stomp switch on a 1590B. I just don't have one in front of me to check (I'm on vacation at the moment! ;D ). What do you think? Could somebody check this for me?
I'll post it tomorrow on the Member Projects area.
Hector
I can't wait to see what comes of all this. I would be curious to see how it looks with smd. Itmight be just the thing to get me on the smd path.
I still etch. But if a group order was put together, I might be convinced to join in.
I have used these successfully. I did do one without ic sockets that didn't work, but it may have been my hack skills at soldering.
Chad
I'm up for SMD as it will push my lazy duff into doing one. Is there a downside to this? Popping or any tone suck issues?
So these momentary illuminated switches http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=10916.0 (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=10916.0) would work with this setup, huh?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Quote from: ch1naski on August 05, 2013, 04:13:44 AM
So these momentary illuminated switches http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=10916.0 (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=10916.0) would work with this setup, huh?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
Damn, really cool switches! ;D
Yes, they'll surely work if they are momentary normally open switches.
Hector
Quote from: crashguitar on August 04, 2013, 11:30:02 PM
I can't wait to see what comes of all this. I would be curious to see how it looks with smd. Itmight be just the thing to get me on the smd path.
I still etch. But if a group order was put together, I might be convinced to join in.
I have used these successfully. I did do one without ic sockets that didn't work, but it may have been my hack skills at soldering.
Chad
Hey, Chad! If you are an etcher, will you do me a favour, if you can of course, to verify the single-sided layout, until I finish the SMD layout? Or do I ask for too much? I won't be home for another two weeks, at least.
Hector
I'd love to see the single sided layout. I could etch it up, and give it a test run, by Saturday, if that was cool!
I could do a test. Did you post a layout that I missed?
Chad
No.. :-\
I just sat on the laptop to do just that! I'll post .sch and .brd files too.
Hector
Here it is, guys and gals! Enjoy!
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=10922.0 (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=10922.0)
Hector
Thanks. It will take me a cpule days to get to it. I bet someone will beat me to it, but that is all right.
Chad
Quote from: crashguitar on August 05, 2013, 07:20:02 PM
Thanks. It will take me a cpule days to get to it. I bet someone will beat me to it, but that is all right.
Chad
That's no problem! My problem is if it's actually working.. :D
Hector
Final vero layout from the other thread.
Thanks, LaceSensor! ;D
Hector