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General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: chromesphere on August 16, 2013, 01:42:55 AM

Title: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: chromesphere on August 16, 2013, 01:42:55 AM
Oh yeah, with a subject title like that im sure this threads going to be derailed with innuendo in no time :D

I just finished building pickdroppers compact big muff, (which is an oxymoron lol), last night.  Search for his mini muffin boards if your interested in that. Good board by the way if your looking for some compact and quite flexible.  I say flexible because (in case you havent seen it) you can populate it with different values to get different versions of the muff.

I'm no muff expert (<- here we go again with the muff jokes) but my mate brought around he's violet rams head a while ago and we compared it to my tonepad 'stock' muff.  They sounded TOTALLY different, his having more of a mid scoop.  I built the violet rams head on the pickdroppers PCB, and it reminded me of my mates muff.  mid scooped and quite gritty.

Now my curosity has been sparked.  There is a world of muff out there (  :o ) that i didnt know about.

Whats your favourite muff?  Extra points for those that respond in the usual most crass muff thread manner possible ;-)

Paul
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: icecycle66 on August 16, 2013, 02:14:42 AM
What?! I would have never guessed you didn't know about Muff!

My favorite is the Green Muff.  I like my tone to be thick and muddy and cruncherific.
The green muff gives me that.  Even if I bump the tone knob over to the treble side a little bit it still holds a darker grind sound than the Ram's Head. 
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: pryde on August 16, 2013, 02:32:37 AM
Oh man I loves me some muff  ;)

OK that's over, now I still search for the perfect muff variant but I still have a decent love affair with my most recent build, the Pharoah (Black arts toneworks). Cortexurizer introduced his build on here and I really dug it.

That being said, my search is ongoing because I know there is a better muff out there for me. I will be following this post.

Title: Re: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: ch1naski on August 16, 2013, 03:05:05 AM
I've only built /played thru one muff. So I'm biased. The Pharaoh.

Super heavy meaty dark loud doom fuzz.
And that's on it's lighter settings.;)

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Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: chromesphere on August 16, 2013, 03:11:27 AM
Another vote for the pharoah!?  Hmm might have to check that one out.

I would definitely say that my tonepad muff is better suited for darker, smashing pumpkins (wall of fuzz, thick...you get the idea) sort of fuzz.

This violet rams head is more gritty and scooped (as i said above).

They really are chalk and cheese!

Paul
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: haveyouseenhim on August 16, 2013, 03:19:10 AM
I just finished the THCustoms 1590A mini muff pi, and it sounds really great.

I've always said a muff that small should be illegal.  :-X

I'm going to hell
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: midwayfair on August 16, 2013, 03:39:15 AM
I breadboarded all the classic ones and in the end the one I decoded to build and boz up was the green Russian.

A big part of the difference between various muffs is the tone stack values and what they do to that final transistor (which is easily overdriven). Since the tone stack comes last, it is still able to have a big effect on what you hear, as opposed to tone shaping that happens early, which is mostly obliterated by gain.

The other major thing is biasing. It's worth noting that some versions have much lower gain transistors than off-the-wall stock NYC muffs. Lower gain transistors here get grittier and change the balance between diode soft clipping and transistor distortion.

It is really neat though just how different small changes make in a circuit with so many components. You could easily spend a year making different variations.

Edit: something something dirty comment something.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: jimilee on August 16, 2013, 03:42:26 AM
Im all a out the green Russian muff for sure. Sounds awesome on bass.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: Haberdasher on August 16, 2013, 04:09:15 AM
mayo.
i wouldn't mind building a pharoah and p-19 though.  sounds like i need to check out a green russian too.  dang.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: alanp on August 16, 2013, 04:49:15 AM
Of the ones I've heard so far, the Skreddy ?Lady (my copy built to Juansolo's specs) is head-and-shoulders above the rest. Awesome, awesome little box.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: jkokura on August 16, 2013, 04:56:14 AM
Op Amp is great. I haven't built many of the transistor units, but the sounds I hear or have heard of the other ones are pretty great, but the Op Amp is different in a good way.

Some don't like it, compared to the transistor units, but I do.

Jacob
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: chromesphere on August 16, 2013, 05:14:34 AM
Quote from: midwayfair on August 16, 2013, 03:39:15 AM
Edit: something something dirty comment something.

Jon i think you won :D

Funny you say that about the gain of the transistors, i used 2n5088's which i would have thought are pretty high gain, but this thing sounds very gritty. 

Hey would darlingtons work in a big muff?  lol

Paul
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: hammerheadmusicman on August 16, 2013, 09:29:06 AM
I built a vintage spec Green Russian for a bass player friend of mine, and i have to say, i really didn't want to part with it when it was done, sounded awesome! Even though i'm not usually a fuzz kinda guy, but that thing ruled!

I'm having a run of my own 1590A MiniBigMuff Boards done, when i am able to build again, i will try and build several of the variants on Juansolo's muff chart (man, that sentence ended strangely!). I'm really interested to see how they all sound. As i've only heard a few.

George
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: ThePastRecedes on August 16, 2013, 01:35:29 PM
I'm going to say rams head! I would modify the tone stack no matter what muff you have. I love the sound of a mid scoop when I'm playing in the living room but in a band context I like to have a flat/humped mids. I defiantly recommend the amz presence knob!
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: Jean-Rock on August 16, 2013, 02:42:08 PM
Actually, I'm not the big fan of the Muffs.....except for the one tuned by GGG....it's like half way between the big muff Pi and a Tonebender......meaning more definition when I play chords with extension notes.

Here's the project : https://www.generalguitargadgets.com/projects/17-distortion/108-big-muff-pi (https://www.generalguitargadgets.com/projects/17-distortion/108-big-muff-pi)

Enjoye !!
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: DutchMF on August 16, 2013, 03:12:15 PM
I sampled a whole lot of Muffs in my days, and I must say I liked something about all of them.... ;D
Now the requisite Muff joke is out of the way, I can tell you it's actually quite true. I have a Mudbunny board with nothing but sockets, and I've tried all the different versions from Brians buid doc, plus a lot of experimentation with transistors and diodes. Can't decide which I liked best.... Second Mudbunny built to VRH specs is on my board at the moment, and I like that a lot, but can't remember what trannies or diodes are in that one. I'll be ordering a board from OSH Park soon that allows me to easily build all versions from Juan's spreadsheet, and the first two on my list are the Ultrastoner and P19. I'm also quite interested in the Pharaoh, so if anyone has a schematic, I might be able to incorporate that in the board... And once confirmed working I'll share it with all you Muff-lovers out there!

MuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuffMuff
;D

Paul
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: TNblueshawk on August 16, 2013, 03:21:30 PM
Well just in case my wife jumps on here I like my wife's the best. After many years of playing I know where to set the tone knobs, she has two, and the drive knob in order to get the volume I need. This is not the tranny version by the way.

Ok, I only jumped in here for the jokes. Can't add much else. Carry on  ;D

Ok...one more...I like the Triangle Muff  :o
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: DutchMF on August 16, 2013, 03:31:14 PM
Quote from: TNblueshawk on August 16, 2013, 03:21:30 PM
Well just in case my wife jumps on here I like my wife's the best. After many years of playing I know where to set the tone knobs, she has two, and the drive knob in order to get the volume I need. This is not the tranny version by the way.

Ok, I only jumped in here for the jokes. Can't add much else. Carry on  ;D

Ok...one more...I like the Triangle Muff  :o
You just won my vote for best Muff joke in this thread!! One thing: I thought the Triangle Muff went out of style at the end of the '80's??

Paul
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: midwayfair on August 16, 2013, 03:41:49 PM
Quote from: chromesphere on August 16, 2013, 05:14:34 AM
Hey would darlingtons work in a big muff?  lol

Actually: They don't. At least, I wasn't able to get it to work even with rebiasing to 6v (an MPSA14 biased to like 8v with stock values! that won't work ...) until I pulled out the diodes. Check out the Whisker Biscuit for a Big Muff-y implementation that uses a Darlington. I should say that I prefer a Biscuit with some tweaks in the tone stack to a real BMP. Add a gain control and frankly there are a lot of settings that are identical, but there's just something more explosive about the distortion in the Biscuit.

Oh, we haven't even discussed the fun that can be had by completely reworking the tone stack. AMZ has some cool tone stack variations.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: TNblueshawk on August 16, 2013, 08:18:59 PM
Quote from: DutchMF on August 16, 2013, 03:31:14 PM
Quote from: TNblueshawk on August 16, 2013, 03:21:30 PM
Well just in case my wife jumps on here I like my wife's the best. After many years of playing I know where to set the tone knobs, she has two, and the drive knob in order to get the volume I need. This is not the tranny version by the way.

Ok, I only jumped in here for the jokes. Can't add much else. Carry on  ;D

Ok...one more...I like the Triangle Muff  :o
You just won my vote for best Muff joke in this thread!! One thing: I thought the Triangle Muff went out of style at the end of the '80's??

Paul

Like they say Paul, it all comes back around if you wait long enough!
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: juansolo on August 16, 2013, 09:39:01 PM
Ultra Stoner. A sort of Skreddy ?Lady with a mid pot.

or

The '71 Triangle... Depends on the day of the week.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: GhostofJohnToad on August 16, 2013, 09:44:57 PM
Different muffs for different stuffs.  Ya know what I'm saying?  When the muff matches the drapes it's a very nice thing ;). unless of course you are a fan of hardwood floors.  I don't discriminate!

I'm torn between my recent mudbunny pharaoh, civil war, and mayo builds.  But I think I have to give the nod to the pharaoh for versatility.
Title: Re: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: ch1naski on August 17, 2013, 06:00:18 AM
I'm personally looking for a happy medium between the super dark doom of the Pharaoh, and something open, with a bit of mids, and articulate.
Preferably in the same enclosure, switchable.


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Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: kothoma on August 17, 2013, 06:26:27 AM
Quote from: DutchMF on August 16, 2013, 03:12:15 PM
I'm also quite interested in the Pharaoh, so if anyone has a schematic, I might be able to incorporate that in the board...

http://www.bigmuffpage.com/images/schematics/Pharaoh%20Big%20Muff%20Clone%20Schematic.jpg
(from http://www.bigmuffpage.com/Big_Muff_Pi_versions_schematics_part3.html)
Title: Re: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: ch1naski on August 17, 2013, 06:46:38 AM
There's also a PCB layout over at diysb, verified (I built it)

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Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: BuGG on August 17, 2013, 03:44:45 PM
My vote is for the v4 opamp version, hands down my favorite Muff to date.

Just built one yesterday and put it in a stock EHX enclosure.

Build thread here (with sound clip):  http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/pedals/266721-npb-big-muff-pi-v4-op-amp.html (http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/pedals/266721-npb-big-muff-pi-v4-op-amp.html)
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: Haberdasher on August 24, 2013, 09:54:42 PM
Quote from: ch1naski on August 17, 2013, 06:46:38 AM
There's also a PCB layout over at diysb, verified (I built it)
i couldn't find it just now.  which thread?

edit:  never mind found it on fsb
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: ch1naski on August 25, 2013, 04:21:35 AM
Quote from: Haberdasher on August 24, 2013, 09:54:42 PM
Quote from: ch1naski on August 17, 2013, 06:46:38 AM
There's also a PCB layout over at diysb, verified (I built it)
i couldn't find it just now.  which thread?

edit:  never mind found it on fsb
I stand corrected. fsb, not diysb. Sorry about that..???

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Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: Haberdasher on August 25, 2013, 02:16:55 PM
Quote from: ch1naski on August 25, 2013, 04:21:35 AM
Quote from: Haberdasher on August 24, 2013, 09:54:42 PM
Quote from: ch1naski on August 17, 2013, 06:46:38 AM
There's also a PCB layout over at diysb, verified (I built it)
i couldn't find it just now.  which thread?

edit:  never mind found it on fsb
I stand corrected. fsb, not diysb. Sorry about that..???
no worries, man; i'm wagging no fingers.  i get those 2 sites jumbled up in my noggin all the time.  :)
thanks for the heads up on this, it'll be interesting to take a look at the layout and parts.
do you like it?  seems like i saw you mentioned it wasn't as 'sabbath' as you hoped.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: ch1naski on August 25, 2013, 04:31:50 PM
Well, maybe because I play in standard tuning.....my kid is into sabbath and he LOVES that pedal. ;) it is a bit dark for my tastes.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: Tremster on August 25, 2013, 09:26:37 PM
Quote from: Haberdasher on August 16, 2013, 04:09:15 AM
mayo.

Mayo it is.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: culturejam on August 26, 2013, 01:26:01 AM
My favorite is usually whichever one I just finished building.  :)
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: lars on August 26, 2013, 04:38:05 AM
My favorite Big Muff sound isn't from a Big Muff at all. The Electro Harmonix Micro Synth is like a Big Muff on steroids. It gives you the same heavy fuzz sound but with the added octave controls and sweep options. Most people think they are hearing a Big Muff on Smashing Pumpkins recordings, but the Micro Synth was used much more; and still part of their regular pedal board setup. It would be an interesting pedal to try to clone...
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: ch1naski on September 04, 2013, 03:56:03 PM
I used to use a vintage bass micro synth, and it was a huge sound, altho a bit gated. I loved it.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: Willybomb on December 09, 2016, 10:11:52 AM
I'm first to admit that I haven't played with enough muffs.

Got a rabbithole here though, think I might build it to PI specs, or something.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: stringsthings on December 09, 2016, 10:39:00 AM
One of the first pedals that I ever bought way back around 1980 was a Big Muff Deluxe.  I didn't know the differences between op amps
and transistors then, but I really liked the sound of the Deluxe.   ( for some reason, when you turned the compressor on, it was in parallel
with the fuzz ... not my cup of tea )  So my favorite is the op amp  version.

OT:   I would really like to build a clone of the compressor.  By itself, it had a over-the-top kind of squish effect that I liked.  Totally
not transparent.  I've read it was a soul preacher, and I've breadboarded one of those and it didn't have that sound.  If anyone knows
of a working soul preacher circuit, I'd be very interested.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: thesmokingman on December 09, 2016, 01:52:34 PM
"Where's Carl?"
all zombie thread jokes aside ...
my first pedals were an op amp big muff and early v1 small stone I paid a whole $20 for at a yard sale ...
the "ram's head 73 #18" on kitrae is the sound I think of when I think of "the big muff sound" ...
I can also admit to buying into the hype of sovtek amps and pedals because that was what was in magazines and catalogues when I was a teen.
now if I were to pick just one out of that, I guess it would be the op amp big muff
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: jimilee on December 09, 2016, 05:56:11 PM
I must say, I haven't played with nearly enough muffs either. I do like the green Russian tremendously.


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Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: Muadzin on December 09, 2016, 10:29:44 PM
I've built almost every of the EHX Muff variants on Kitrae's site. Of them I like the all ceramic Triangle and the Violet Ram the most. Many Muffs are way too boomy and muddy for my taste but these have the right balance. The op-amp is also very good in its own way. Of the Russian Muffs I never liked the Green Russian, to muddy for my taste, but I can understand why bass players love them. The Civil War was more to my taste.

The best Muffs though are the Skreddy Muffs. They're all good in their own way with my favorites being the Mayonaise III and the P19. The latter you can actually use with a mid boost switch. Which is something that is mandatory for basically all Muffs. The scoop may sound great in the bedroom, but in a band setting it will murder your sound faster then an AK-47. I've installed the Skreddy mids switch in all my Muffs and just flicking it to the flat setting is basically all you need to reappear in a mix again.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: stringsthings on December 10, 2016, 04:06:18 AM
Quote from: Muadzin on December 09, 2016, 10:29:44 PM
The latter you can actually use with a mid boost switch. Which is something that is mandatory for basically all Muffs. The scoop may sound great in the bedroom, but in a band setting it will murder your sound faster then an AK-47. I've installed the Skreddy mids switch in all my Muffs and just flicking it to the flat setting is basically all you need to reappear in a mix again.

Very true.   When I was a teenager, I didn't know much about EQ in general, so I always wondered why my guitar would sound buried in a band sound.
But I always loved that distorted, fuzzy sound.   Since it was my first experience with distortion, it made a huge impression on me.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: JC103 on December 10, 2016, 07:55:59 PM
Here is clip from a dude on the Gilmour forum, it should suffice for the dirty mind in the gutter muff rhetoric required by the OP:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf-uctPysAs&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf-uctPysAs&feature=youtu.be)

I've got about 6 muff builds kicking around. Triangle, Violet Ram x2, Civil War x2, and the Duplex Drive G2. They all sound different, it really is amazing what component type n' tolerances do to the circuit. Wima vs. generic box caps, ceramic vs. mica, or even tropical fish. Then there are the trannies which add another dimension to the texture of the distortion. You could spend years trying to find the right one. Looking forward to trying out the ?Lady and the Mayo. So far NOS trannies, tight tolerance ceramics, and fish caps seem to be the most pleasing to my ear.

Try adding a the Cornish buffer inline before the muff, you may find you do not need a mid switch after all. Just add volume and you'll cut through! (100w EL34 powered amps are a prerequisite lol)

Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: darrenw6000 on December 10, 2016, 10:47:53 PM
i did see a diy pedal somewhere where someone had a rotary switch where they could select the various muff's, i thought that was a cool idea.

Only sampled 2, the triangle and rams head, definitely preferred the triangle. I would love to sample some more variety of muff.
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: jimilee on December 11, 2016, 03:17:08 AM
Nice fuzz pedal


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Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: jimilee on December 11, 2016, 03:17:39 AM
Nice fuzz pedal


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Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: dont-tase-me-bro on December 11, 2016, 03:51:29 AM
having all the different versions on a rotary switch is a cool idea
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: neve1272 on December 11, 2016, 12:37:17 PM
i have to vote for the darkside brians G2...my wife likes her green Russian ..i also made a mudbunny board with sockets from advice on this board .i leaned a crap ton   from doing that
Title: Re: Your Favorite Muff?
Post by: Muadzin on December 11, 2016, 01:07:29 PM
As for those rotary switched Muffs, it doesn't really work in my opinion. There is no one Triangle Muff, there is no one Ram's Head Muff. It was just box art. What was inside was sometimes as radically different from one Triangle or Ram's Head to another as the so called other versions.