These may be interesting :)
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2013/10/leaked-moog-minifooger-stompboxes-139-199-uninformed-analysis/ (http://createdigitalmusic.com/2013/10/leaked-moog-minifooger-stompboxes-139-199-uninformed-analysis/)
Interesting! They are using an OTA for overdrive in the drive? That kinda doesn't make sense. The way it reads it sounds more like they are using the OTA to move the ladder filter. But, the Boost does directly say they are using the OTA as a VCA and clipping.
In this paper (http://synth.stromeko.net/diy/OTA.pdf) on page 4 you find:
Quote
The limiting action is comparably smooth, so overdriving an OTA from the input can be musically quite useful.
Never heard that before.
Me either, in fact whenever I overdrive an LM13700 it sounds like something is going to die and sometimes something has, the 13700. I'm going to have to read that paper now.
Hope those prices are legit. Looks awesome.
I think my brain was stuck in what I've been working with lately. But that paper jarred it free. (Nice paper by the way. I'll have to keep that one around.) This is Moog we are talking about. It may not be the old Moog, but it is still Moog. There's a good chance they are doing discrete OTA circuits. If that's case, these could be really interesting.
So, if my quick read through is getting this right, the distortion is a hyperbolic tangent based distortion? That's really interesting considering our digital distortion discussion since a tanh is used in DSP to generate some overdrive characteristics.
Oh yes! Can't wait for these, gotta get the Ring as soon as it gets out :D
Not interested until they put a Murf in a box that size :)
Quote from: juansolo on October 02, 2013, 07:53:46 PM
Not interested until they put a Murf in a box that size :)
That would be a slick trick.
Quote from: RobA on October 02, 2013, 06:21:01 PM
[...] There's a good chance they are doing discrete OTA circuits. [...]
Yeah, that could be possible. These pedals could be SMD-style anyway. But I still find it unlikely, because of component count and matching transitor pairs.
Quote
[...] the distortion is a hyperbolic tangent based distortion? [...]
That's the way I read it too. Tanh is one of several transfer functions for nonlinearities used in dsp and a nice one in that.
From the initial photos they look a bit meh to me. A bit boring and bland.
Moog is all about the wooden panels, bomb proof build quality, oversized controls, and extensive control option IMO.
On the other hand, if they have put their ladder filter in a stomp box that can work well at line level for around £150 then I am definitely interested.
What's a ladder filter?
I could have just googled that, but I'm anti-establishment so I didn't :D :P
Quote from: Cortexturizer on October 03, 2013, 11:31:00 AM
What's a ladder filter?
I could have just googled that, but I'm anti-establishment so I didn't :D :P
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=moog+ladder+filter (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=moog+ladder+filter)
;) :) ;D
Quote from: Cortexturizer on October 03, 2013, 11:31:00 AM
What's a ladder filter?
Short: the Moog filter, US Patent 3,475,623.
A cascade of four single pole filters with a feedback loop.
The filter sections are based on the emitter resistance of balanced pairs of transistors.
Quote from: raulduke on October 03, 2013, 11:19:42 AM
Moog is all about the wooden panels, bomb proof build quality, oversized controls, and extensive control option IMO.
Rebox them any way you want...
Quote from: Cortexturizer on October 02, 2013, 06:52:37 PM
Oh yes! Can't wait for these, gotta get the Ring as soon as it gets out :D
The MF Ring seems very stripped down. Need to see the full specs.
Quote from: raulduke on October 03, 2013, 11:41:48 AM
Quote from: Cortexturizer on October 03, 2013, 11:31:00 AM
What's a ladder filter?
I could have just googled that, but I'm anti-establishment so I didn't :D :P
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=moog+ladder+filter (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=moog+ladder+filter)
;) :) ;D
Cute! Gotta bookmark this.
I'm having a hard time reading it clearly, does the trem say it's a trem, chorus, phaser?
I'd love a small FreqBox.
Quote from: RobA on October 03, 2013, 12:39:25 PM
I'm having a hard time reading it clearly, does the trem say it's a trem, chorus, phaser?
"The MF Trem covers the gamut from classic opto tremolo effects to full-on phase and chorus. With its interactive [?] Tone and Mix controls you can craft sweet swells, percussive rhythms, and more."
Hm.
Quote from: kothoma on October 03, 2013, 12:53:21 PM
Quote from: RobA on October 03, 2013, 12:39:25 PM
I'm having a hard time reading it clearly, does the trem say it's a trem, chorus, phaser?
"The MF Trem covers the gamut from classic opto tremolo effects to full-on phase and chorus. With its interactive [?] Tone and Mix controls you can craft sweet swells, percussive rhythms, and more."
Hm.
Digital?
Edit: Well, no since the very first line in the ad is all analog. I wonder what they are doing for the chorus part.
Quote from: RobA on October 03, 2013, 12:58:08 PM
Quote from: kothoma on October 03, 2013, 12:53:21 PM
Quote from: RobA on October 03, 2013, 12:39:25 PM
I'm having a hard time reading it clearly, does the trem say it's a trem, chorus, phaser?
"The MF Trem covers the gamut from classic opto tremolo effects to full-on phase and chorus. With its interactive [?] Tone and Mix controls you can craft sweet swells, percussive rhythms, and more."
Hm.
Digital?
It also says "Awesome All-analog Effects Pedals" in the title.
Quote from: kothoma on October 03, 2013, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: RobA on October 03, 2013, 12:58:08 PM
[..]
Digital?
It also says "Awesome All-analog Effects Pedals" in the title.
Yeah, I just noticed that too. MAkes it more interesting, I wonder about what they are doing for the chorus. Maybe it's a chorus in the phase shifter chorus sense.
Quote from: RobA on October 03, 2013, 01:05:44 PM
Quote from: kothoma on October 03, 2013, 01:02:53 PM
Quote from: RobA on October 03, 2013, 12:58:08 PM
[..]
Digital?
It also says "Awesome All-analog Effects Pedals" in the title.
Yeah, I just noticed that too. MAkes it more interesting, I wonder about what they are doing for the chorus. Maybe it's a chorus in the phase shifter chorus sense.
If it was a phaser wouldn't they market it as such? Where's that mini 12-stage phaser anyway?
Edit: and what's "Tremolo pedal with sub"?
Quote from: raulduke on October 03, 2013, 11:19:42 AM
On the other hand, if they have put their ladder filter in a stomp box that can work well at line level for around £150 then I am definitely interested.
"Drive, $169: pairs an operational transconductance amplifier (for overdrive) with the Moog Ladder Filter."
You'd have to live with that overdrive, and probably guitar levels. And in the picture I read $189.
Quote from: kothoma on October 03, 2013, 01:12:51 PM
Quote from: raulduke on October 03, 2013, 11:19:42 AM
On the other hand, if they have put their ladder filter in a stomp box that can work well at line level for around £150 then I am definitely interested.
"Drive, $169: pairs an operational transconductance amplifier (for overdrive) with the Moog Ladder Filter."
You'd have to live with that overdrive, and probably guitar levels. And in the picture I read $189.
Yep usually stuff is a bit less in UK £ than $ listing once its in the shops over here.
I would imagine Moog have catered for the Synth market/line levels with these pedals. There is certainly more of a demand for Moog stuff in those circles.
I just want an analog ring modulator with an expression input, if it says Moog on it, and the price is right, why not buy it. I doubt that they will strip it down too much. It will be much more easy to sell afterwards, being Moog and all.
That being said, I don't like when firms that are targeting the high-end market only start showing on the medium to cheap search. Just takes from the brand a little.
But okay, everybody is doing it I guess, just wait and see, iPhone 6SE is just around the corner...
Quote from: Cortexturizer on October 03, 2013, 01:38:16 PM
I just want an analog ring modulator with an expression input, if it says Moog on it, and the price is right, why not buy it. I doubt that they will strip it down too much. It will be much more easy to sell afterwards, being Moog and all.
That being said, I don't like when firms that are targeting the high-end market only start showing on the medium to cheap search. Just takes from the brand a little.
But okay, everybody is doing it I guess, just wait and see, iPhone 6SE is just around the corner...
I agree with that. Moog was considered one of the 'luxury' audio brands.
They might risk devaluing their brand with stuff like this (and the ghastly iphone apps).
Quote from: kothoma on October 03, 2013, 01:11:16 PM
If it was a phaser wouldn't they market it as such? Where's that mini 12-stage phaser anyway?
Edit: and what's "Tremolo pedal with sub"?
Maybe they plan on bringing the 12-stage out later and don't want to confuse that by calling the trem pedal a phaser. I guess it depends on how they've implemented the trem. It would help to be able to see the labels on the knobs.
I've no idea what a trem with sub is, but I don't see that in the marketing blurb either, just the in the article.
Edit: On the Synthtopia site, they are saying it is with a sub audio VCO. I'm guessing that just means a voltage controlled LFO.
Quote from: RobA on October 03, 2013, 01:44:22 PM
Maybe they plan on bringing the 12-stage out later and don't want to confuse that by calling the trem pedal a phaser.
Quite possible.
Quote
I guess it depends on how they've implemented the trem. It would help to be able to see the labels on the knobs.
I still have no idea. Perhaps a faux-phaser (one variable notch filter). Well, but what with chorus? Hm.
Quote
I've no idea what a trem with sub is, but I don't see that in the marketing blurb either, just the in the article.
Edit: On the Synthtopia site, they are saying it is with a sub audio VCO. I'm guessing that just means a voltage controlled LFO.
LFO, OK.
Well, here's a bit more: http://www.gearjunkies.com/news_info.php?news_id=8706
Quote
Moog Minifooger - Delay ($199.00)
A Bucket Brigade based 100% analog delay that delivers over 650ms of rich, blooming repeats. Adding an expression pedal to the MF Delay allows you to control feedback swells dynamically or adjust the delay time completely hands free.
Moog Minifooger - Tremolo ($179.00)
A lush, transformative, and unique wide-range tremolo pedal that employs a balanced modulator circuit and Sub Audio VCO.. Add an expression pedal for beautiful, hands-free swells.
Moog Minifooger - Boost ($139.00)
A tone enhancing, twin topology boost pedal that allows you to select between transparent VCA or clipped OTA signal paths. When paired with an expression pedal, the MF Boost can also be used as a volume pedal or sweepable-gain boost pedal.
Moog Minifooger - Drive ($169.00)
A unique, filter-based overdrive pedal that employs a classic OTA and Moog Ladder Filter in its drive section for completely customizable sounds from creamy overdrive to cranked tube amplifier. Plug in an expression pedal to add a dimension of tonal and performance possibilities not found elsewhere.
Moog Minifooger - Ring ($149.00)
A balanced Ring Modulator based on the best selling Ring Mod in the world, the Moogerfooger MF-102. Add an expression pedal and the MF Ring creates hands free sound sweeps and octave style jamming, to robotic and whammy effects.
Quote from: kothoma on October 03, 2013, 03:29:58 PM
Quote from: RobA on October 03, 2013, 01:44:22 PM
I guess it depends on how they've implemented the trem. It would help to be able to see the labels on the knobs.
I still have no idea. Perhaps a faux-phaser (one variable notch filter). Well, but what with chorus? Hm.
Quote
Moog Minifooger - Tremolo ($179.00)
A lush, transformative, and unique wide-range tremolo pedal that employs a balanced modulator circuit and Sub Audio VCO.. Add an expression pedal for beautiful, hands-free swells.
No mention of phaser or chorus here. Sound like a conventional tremolo, maybe going a bit into ring modulation territory if the vco is not only sub audio ("unique wide-range").
Edit: Also http://forum.moogmusic.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20029&start=45
Quote
Just rec'd my Sweetwater catalog so was able to read the details on the Minifoogers.
Except, the copy is poorly written; one thought runs into the next and from what I see, the Trem does not have a Tone AND Mix control as the catalog suggests (only MF Delay as a Mix) .
[...]
For those of you that are not on Sweetwater's mailing and/or have bad eyes (like I do), here is the text:
"Moog's Minifooger series kicks off five incredible stompboxes. Based on Moog's super-popular MF-102 ring modular, the MF Ring provides you with a unique tone control that lets you create cool and creative effects that are refreshingly playable.
Add an expression pedal, and you can conjure up crazy sweeps and intense pitch effects. The MF Trem covers the gamut from classic opto tremolo effects to full-on phase and chorus. With its interactive Tone and Mix controls, you can craft sweet swells, percussive rhythms, and more. A genuine bucket brigade circuit bolstered by a vintage compander at the heart of the MF Delay delivers up to 650ms of repeats that bloom naturally and decay organically into an almost reverb-like trail. Swell up feedback or manipulate delay times with the addition of an expression pedal. The MF Boost offers you two fantastic signal paths: a clean VCA and a delightfully clipped OTA, and the OTA-based MF Drive serves up a sweepable Moog Ladder Filter for creamy overdrive with amazing pick definition."
Quote from: kothoma on October 03, 2013, 03:55:46 PM
...
No mention of phaser or chorus here. Sound like a conventional tremolo, maybe going a bit into ring modulation territory if the vco is not only sub audio ("unique wide-range").
Yeah, but it is in the text of the Sweetwater ad that I'm assuming was approved by Moog. My guess is that it's a trem, that has characteristics that border on Uni-Vibe like "chorus." Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
Meanwhile, I'm going to go and overdrive some OTA's :D.
Quote from: RobA on October 03, 2013, 04:26:29 PM
Meanwhile, I'm going to go and overdrive some OTA's :D.
Great idea! I don't have my breadboard and stuff around to still my curiosity about this myself, for now.
Any guesses on what chips are in the delay?
I'd guess BL3208s, but it would be easy to be wrong.
Jacob
Well, that was surprisingly underwhelming. Maybe I was expecting too much?
I'm not too impressed, they did not Live up to my expectations at all. That drive sounded nasty, especially in the high gain setting.
George
Underwhelming demos, for sure.
I did like the Drive when Troy played it.
But I find the Circuit Salad ring modulator like way better than this thing. [gotta build one]
I didn't watch troys vid, just watched it, it sounds a bit better, but it sounded really raspy on higher gain settings.
So where are the times when the name Moog stood for innovation?
When Bob Moog was alive and at the helm?
Yeah, I dunno how much of that was a bad demoer, or that the pedals aren't that great.
I'd like to see one focused on the delay, and I'd like to know what chips are in it.
Jacob
I was really excited about them, until I heard them :/
Better demo, sound-wise, but still average pedal performance. Really not interested in the delay.
The Moog website has the manuals for these up now http://www.moogmusic.com/downloads (http://www.moogmusic.com/downloads). They give a few more hints about what they are doing. The description of the term pedal makes it sound as if the Depth knob does something with routing portions of the signal through the tone control and/or trem portion and the remixing stage then gets the phase cancellation from the phase shift of the tone controls. That appears to be where they get the phase/chorus stuff from.
Yup. Thanks for pointing this out.