madbeanpedals::forum

Projects => General Questions => Topic started by: avidgrim on November 02, 2013, 08:59:07 PM

Title: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 02, 2013, 08:59:07 PM
I just finished the mangler build I've been working on and I plugged a battery in but am not getting a reading when I try to bias the pedal or when I try to play through it. The signal goes through but no sound comes out when it is switch on. Only thing that is happening is the battery gets hot.

I used the standard MB wiring diagram. Only thing I haven't hooked up yet is the led.
I can send pictures by email if anyone can help out. I'm on a phone so I can't upload to the forum.

Thanks
Dave
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: murdog47 on November 02, 2013, 09:00:42 PM
Did you set it up as a negative or positive ground...check the mangler build docs
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 02, 2013, 09:33:15 PM
Ah thats it. Did i fry the board?
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 02, 2013, 09:45:37 PM
I've got a 9v jack too so I can power with a voodoo labs PP2 as well. That is why I went by the standard wiring diagram. Are there any changes to the way that is wired?
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 03, 2013, 02:50:04 PM
So I got it working with a 9v. Haven't tried the DC jack yet, not super concerned with that right now. I'm wondering about 2 things.

It's pretty noisy, not horrible but considerably noisier than any other pedals I have.

When I biased the circuit I couldn't get it to -4.5v like the mangler docs specified. I can get 4.5 but the lowest it will go is 0.5.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: Rockhorst on November 03, 2013, 05:40:04 PM
Sounds like you're using reverse polarity?
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: Gledison on November 03, 2013, 06:33:13 PM
Quote from: Rockhorst on November 03, 2013, 05:40:04 PM
Sounds like you're using reverse polarity?
+1
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 03, 2013, 07:28:51 PM
Can anyone point me in the right direction on how to fix this?
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 03, 2013, 08:42:57 PM
I have the electrolytic capacitors in the correct orientation I believe. Circle pads are neg, square are positive correct?
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 03, 2013, 09:28:58 PM
Mad Bean, any chance you could create a complete wiring diagram with a dc jack and led for the mangler? I'm piecing things together and I'm doing something very wrong.

Thanks if possible.
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: catfud on November 04, 2013, 12:09:05 AM
Are you including a voltage inverter for -9v supply? I put the road rage in-between the DC jack and the board to invert the voltage for my mangler.
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: murdog47 on November 04, 2013, 12:49:20 AM
Can you attach a picture?
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 04, 2013, 12:49:57 AM
Haven't tried the dc jack yet. Planned on running it with a voodoo pp2 when I get around to buying one.
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 04, 2013, 12:51:17 AM
I will post a few pictures this evening. Thanks to everyone trying to lend a hand.
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 04, 2013, 02:00:13 AM
Pics
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8qayegaskqcwtpj/2013-11-02%2016.24.17.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ixaarpkp6j6cl89/2013-11-02%2016.24.12.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lbbu1k7oyivm0gk/2013-11-02%2016.23.41.jpg

I have made 1 modification from the pics. I have the wire that is connected to the tip of the in jack connected to bottom right lug on the switch. Was connected to the top middle lug.
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: Rockhorst on November 04, 2013, 08:35:15 PM
Avidgrim, to get to your problems real fast (at least in the future) include as much information and as many details as you can about your build in the first post. Right now, I just keep coming up with additional questions before I can really help. Like: which transistors are you using?

Additionally, it might be wise to use a more colorful palette for your wiring, at least in the beginning. Really makes it easier. I use:
Red and Black for power
Yellow and Green for input/output signals
White and Purple for LED wiring and additional wiring.

So, what transistor :) Also (because of the wiring) it is very hard to check your wiring on the dc jack. I can't quite make out if you did it correctly or not. Use black for ground from here on.
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 04, 2013, 08:58:31 PM
Thanks for the tips rockhorst. I only had red and yellow wire, ill keep your suggestion in mind for the future. I'm using NKT275 trannies.
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 05, 2013, 08:43:12 PM
Anyone have a chance to look at the pictures I uploaded to offer some help?
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: Gledison on November 05, 2013, 09:07:42 PM
Quote from: avidgrim on November 05, 2013, 08:43:12 PM
Anyone have a chance to look at the pictures I uploaded to offer some help?
Hey man.
Look, I know that some people already said that , but I didn't see your answer. Did you inverted the battery snap that goes to the PCB. normally you will connect the red wire to the +9V and the black wire to the negative pad (negative ground). In this build you are supposed to connect the black wire from the battery to the -9V pad. Did you do that?
cheers
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 06, 2013, 02:29:36 AM
Hey Gledison. I have the black wire of the snap connected to the ring of the input jack and the red connected to the dc jack.

The 3rd picture that I uploaded shows a pretty good angle. My finger is holding the snap outside of the case.

Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: Gledison on November 06, 2013, 08:37:51 AM
Quote from: avidgrim on November 06, 2013, 02:29:36 AM
Hey Gledison. I have the black wire of the snap connected to the ring of the input jack and the red connected to the dc jack.

The 3rd picture that I uploaded shows a pretty good angle. My finger is holding the snap outside of the case.

Thanks for the help.
Hey mate! In the Mangler docs you will see that the black wire from the battery snap connects to the -9V in the PCB! The red wire goes to the ring of the Stereo input jack!
Try changing that!
Cheers
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: Rockhorst on November 06, 2013, 11:26:10 AM
Avidgrim, try the suggestion made by Gledison just above (reverse polarity). This has, in fact, been pointed out a few times in this topic now, but you might not have spotted it. If ever you see an explanation or suggestion you don't understand, don't brush over it but ask about it, just in case. I tried to check it by your photos, but the lack of color coding just made that impossible.
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 06, 2013, 04:29:03 PM
I did see that suggestion mad several times but I am including a DC jack in the build. The dc jack is connected to the -9V in the PCB. I really want to use a dc jack and I've already drilled the enclosure to include this. Really what I need is a diagram like the general wiring doc that MadBean provides that is suited to this build. Can anyone help with that?
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: Gledison on November 06, 2013, 05:50:04 PM
Quote from: avidgrim on November 06, 2013, 04:29:03 PM
I did see that suggestion mad several times but I am including a DC jack in the build. The dc jack is connected to the -9V in the PCB. I really want to use a dc jack and I've already drilled the enclosure to include this. Really what I need is a diagram like the general wiring doc that MadBean provides that is suited to this build. Can anyone help with that?
Hey mate! i attached the wiring diagram for positive ground. This wiring is for negative tip adaptor (standard ones). I got that from GGG site. Please take a good look, and as the experts here to confirm if its what you need. im also a noob and just trying to help...
good luck
Update: just found the nice and understandable madbean wiring diagram for a positive ground
Gledison
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: Gledison on November 06, 2013, 06:08:42 PM
here we go..
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 06, 2013, 06:40:26 PM
That second diagram is exactly what I need except it doesn't include the dc jack. Can anyone explain how to wire the dc jack into that diagram?
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: jkokura on November 06, 2013, 06:51:30 PM
Part of the issue you're experiencing is that the Mangler is a -9V effect, not a typical +9V effect. Because of that, using a DC jack isn't recommended UNLESS you're using a voltage inverting cable or a -9V power supply. Basically, there is no standard wiring diagram including a DC jack because there is no standard power supply for this type of pedal.

Can you tell us how you're going to be powering your pedal more specifically?

Jacob
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: Bret608 on November 06, 2013, 08:09:52 PM
I think everyone is moving you on the right track here. I'll just add a couple of things:

1) The wiring diagram for positive-ground effects that Gledison posted is correct--the black wire of your battery clip should be connected to your dc jack; the red lead should be connected to your input jack ring. From there your dc jack is wired to the -9v pad on the PCB.

2) The only way a dc jack will work with this build is if you have a special one made for positive ground effects, such as the one Fulltone sells for their germanium fuzzes. Also, if you do get a Voodoo Lab PP2, you would have to special-order a dc plug from them that will work for positive ground. In other words, as Jacob mentions, these aren't really a standard item.

At this point, you may have damaged the polarity protection diode on your Mangler PCB. If you get the polarity for your wiring corrected, I am not sure if you need to change that diode out or not for it work. But the good news is that your caps and transistors should be okay!  :)
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 06, 2013, 09:25:24 PM
Sounds like should just lose the dc jack and just use a battery from what your saying. Problem is I already have a big 1/2 hole on the side of my enclosure.

Do I really need a special positive dc jack. I've been searching a lot online and this is the first I've heard that. Also I can't find a single source to purchase one.

:-\
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: Gledison on November 06, 2013, 09:29:39 PM
Quote from: avidgrim on November 06, 2013, 09:25:24 PM
Sounds like should just lose the dc jack and just use a battery from what your saying. Problem is I already have a big 1/2 hole on the side of my enclosure.

Do I really need a special positive dc jack. I've been searching a lot online and this is the first I've heard that. Also I can't find a single source to purchase one.

:-\
You can use a voltage inverter board like the road rage (i never did! but everybody say is a good choice),and you can build yourself. Take a look at the projects
cheers
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: GermanCdn on November 06, 2013, 09:39:30 PM
Yeah, the road rage is your best option at this point, it'll be cheaper than buying a dedicated power supply for the mangler and make less of a mess on your board.  ALternately, just fill the hole with the DC jack and don't connect it to the board and just run off battery.  Fixes your aesthitics issue.
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: Bret608 on November 07, 2013, 05:12:05 PM
Quote from: avidgrim on November 06, 2013, 09:25:24 PM
Sounds like should just lose the dc jack and just use a battery from what your saying. Problem is I already have a big 1/2 hole on the side of my enclosure.

Do I really need a special positive dc jack. I've been searching a lot online and this is the first I've heard that. Also I can't find a single source to purchase one.

:-\

Sorry not to be clear on that; I meant the ac adaptor you would use, not the dc jack itself. See the FPS-2 on the following link:

http://www.fulltone.com/products/ac-adapters

You could just wire the dc jack and battery as we advised, and order one of these when you have a chance. But I think the suggestion about the Road Rage is really good too. Then you could just use the common 9v adaptors that we usually use.

I hope this helps!  :)
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 08, 2013, 11:49:11 PM
So how are both the dc jack and battery snap wired? Everyone has only explain one or the other I believe. Maybe I missed something, but it seems like everyone is saying it can be done but not explaining exactly how.
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: avidgrim on November 08, 2013, 11:52:50 PM
I do see that the ggg diagram that Gledison gratiously supplied has both included but the switch wiring is different that the mangler doc and there are 4 extra grounds on the board in their diagram. Is any of that needed?
Title: Re: Noob problems - mangler build finished pedal doesn't work
Post by: Gledison on November 09, 2013, 09:48:21 AM
Quote from: avidgrim on November 08, 2013, 11:52:50 PM
I do see that the ggg diagram that Gledison gratiously supplied has both included but the switch wiring is different that the mangler doc and there are 4 extra grounds on the board in their diagram. Is any of that needed?
Hey mate. That was an example!
As far as i understood, all the grounds have to be connected to each other or in different ground points. In that example the design of the pcb show 4 ground points, so you could wire all the grounds in one point or distribute them.
with a 3PDT you connect the grounds on the switch and from the switch to the board!
Hope it helps!