madbeanpedals::forum

Projects => General Questions => Topic started by: evildead222 on December 02, 2013, 10:18:37 PM

Title: Potentiometer Question
Post by: evildead222 on December 02, 2013, 10:18:37 PM
How do I turn a 500k linear pot into a 250k linear.  Can i use a resistor.
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: Gledison on December 02, 2013, 10:51:52 PM
Just add. A 500k in parallel u get the 250k! 1/Rt=1/R1+1/R2
Add the resistor between lugs 1 and 3!
Cheers
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: evildead222 on December 02, 2013, 10:59:41 PM
i connect the outer lugs with a resistor?
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: Gledison on December 02, 2013, 11:00:31 PM
Yep! Sorry, ive just updated my answer
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: muddyfox on December 02, 2013, 11:11:29 PM
yes but will it still be a linear pot?
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: Gledison on December 03, 2013, 06:58:10 AM
Yes!
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: Gledison on December 03, 2013, 07:19:02 AM
I would sugest you to get the right pot , but if you cant, try it with the resistor and see how it goes! You can always change afterwards
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: evildead222 on December 03, 2013, 09:04:34 AM
yea it's just to test it out then i'll order the right pots
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: DutchMF on December 03, 2013, 11:52:42 AM
I hate to disagree with Gledison, but it's a bit more complicated than that. To start with, it depends on how the pot functions in the circuit, is it a voltage devider, variable resistance etc... This is some good reading: http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm (http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm)

Getting the right pot is always preferable, but to start: a linear pot with a resistor bootstrapped over it will never remain linear.

Paul
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: muddyfox on December 03, 2013, 11:56:35 AM
Quote from: DutchMF on December 03, 2013, 11:52:42 AM
a linear pot with a resistor bootstrapped over it will never remain linear.

Yeah I had a gut feeling about that when I asked... I really should take time and read "Life of pots"...  ::)
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: DutchMF on December 03, 2013, 12:02:10 PM
It's really difficult to get your head around stuff like this, if I say so myself. I made an Excel sheet once, with some graphs linked to all the data, to visualize what happens when you start messing with pots and resistors, but I lost that one......... If I get really bored, I will give it another go, because it worked fantastic!

Paul
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: Govmnt_Lacky on December 03, 2013, 12:40:33 PM
Quote from: DutchMF on December 03, 2013, 11:52:42 AM
Getting the right pot is always preferable, but to start: a linear pot with a resistor bootstrapped over it will never remain linear.

I agree Paul however, I would be pretty confident saying that it will get you where you want to be  ;D

It would be close enough to a linear taper that it would work. If you want perfection.... then get the 250KB pot. If you want it to work NOW, use the 500KB pot with a 500K (or 510K) resistor strapped between Lugs 1 and 3.

A small sacrifice for having it completed now.  8)
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: DutchMF on December 03, 2013, 12:46:39 PM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on December 03, 2013, 12:40:33 PM
Quote from: DutchMF on December 03, 2013, 11:52:42 AM
Getting the right pot is always preferable, but to start: a linear pot with a resistor bootstrapped over it will never remain linear.

I agree Paul however, I would be pretty confident saying that it will get you where you want to be  ;D

It would be close enough to a linear taper that it would work. If you want perfection.... then get the 250KB pot. If you want it to work NOW, use the 500KB pot with a 500K (or 510K) resistor strapped between Lugs 1 and 3.

A small sacrifice for having it completed now.  8)

Yeah, you can certainly do this to see everything works, but when the pot is used as a variable resistor, like the gain control in the Egodriver, this won't work......... Sorry for being an ass, I really only try to help.  :D

Paul
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: midwayfair on December 03, 2013, 01:40:50 PM
Quote from: DutchMF on December 03, 2013, 12:46:39 PM
Quote from: Govmnt_Lacky on December 03, 2013, 12:40:33 PM
Quote from: DutchMF on December 03, 2013, 11:52:42 AM
Getting the right pot is always preferable, but to start: a linear pot with a resistor bootstrapped over it will never remain linear.

I agree Paul however, I would be pretty confident saying that it will get you where you want to be  ;D

It would be close enough to a linear taper that it would work. If you want perfection.... then get the 250KB pot. If you want it to work NOW, use the 500KB pot with a 500K (or 510K) resistor strapped between Lugs 1 and 3.

A small sacrifice for having it completed now.  8)

Yeah, you can certainly do this to see everything works, but when the pot is used as a variable resistor, like the gain control in the Egodriver, this won't work......... Sorry for being an ass, I really only try to help.  :D

Paul

Why do you say that? Connect lugs 2 and 3 and it's two resistors of 500K = 250K.
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: DutchMF on December 03, 2013, 02:09:26 PM
If you have a variable resistor pot, putting a resistor across lugs 1 and 3 wont work, was what I meant........ Or am I completely mistaken? At work at the moment, so no time to double check. If I'm wrong about this, I'm sorry and will delete the mis-information.......

Paul
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: RobA on December 03, 2013, 02:22:04 PM
To see what it does, you have to know how it's going to be used in a circuit. Putting a resistor across 1 and 3 really depends on how you are going to use it. Connecting 1 and 3 with a resistor and using it as a variable resistor between 1 and 2 does one thing. Resistor across 1 and 3 with 3 and 2 connected as a variable resistor between 1 and 2 does another. Resistor across 1 and 3 with the arrangement used as a voltage divider does another (mostly useless) thing.
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: DutchMF on December 03, 2013, 02:24:45 PM
If you want to use the resistance between lugs 1 and 2, connecting a resistor between lugs 1 and 3 wouldn't do anything, right?

Paul
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: RobA on December 03, 2013, 03:19:47 PM
Quote from: DutchMF on December 03, 2013, 02:24:45 PM
If you want to use the resistance between lugs 1 and 2, connecting a resistor between lugs 1 and 3 wouldn't do anything, right?

Paul

What happens depends on if you connect pins 3 and 2 as well (in the way that is often done when using a pot as a variable resistor.

The pot has resistance V, the resistor is R, R' will be the total resistance between 1 and 2, x is the fraction of rotation ( x in [0, 1]).

If you don't connect pins 3 and 2:
The easiest way to visualize this is that the portion of the pot that is not between 1 and 2 wraps around and adds to the R to form the total resistance that is in parallel with the resistance between pins 1 and 2.

R' =  [1/xV + 1/((1 - x)V + R)]^-1 = xV[(1-x)V + R]/(V + R). So, if V = R

R' = (x - 0.5 * x^2) R

If you do connect pins 3 and 2: R' = [1/xV + 1/R]^-1. So, if R = V, R' = R x/(1 + x).

Note that it is way too early for me to be doing math, so I probably made a mistake somewhere. But, testing on a breadboard with the pot set to half seems to verify these calcs.
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: Gledison on December 03, 2013, 03:26:36 PM
Quote from: DutchMF on December 03, 2013, 11:52:42 AM
I hate to disagree with Gledison, but it's a bit more complicated than that. To start with, it depends on how the pot functions in the circuit, is it a voltage devider, variable resistance etc... This is some good reading: http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm (http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/potsecrets/potscret.htm)

Getting the right pot is always preferable, but to start: a linear pot with a resistor bootstrapped over it will never remain linear.

Paul
Hey Paul, no worries. im far away of being an expert and you are much more qualified to help here :) .
I just remembered to read about this problem, and ive read that by adding a resistor would solve the problem. I need to read your article as well...
thanks!!
Title: Re: Potentiometer Question
Post by: davent on December 03, 2013, 05:05:21 PM
Besides the Geofex pot discussion there's this one; http://sound.westhost.com/pots.htm.

Towards the end is the info on creative changing of the pot's "law".

dave