I'm in my first year of college, and I'm trying to figure out what I want to major in.
I've always wanted to learn music, so I'm thinking I'll minor in music, and major in something else.
I'm thinking about electrical engineering because I love designing and making things with my own two hands. I've noodled around with electronics in middle school, but quit for a little bit, until I discovered that you can make your own pedals. So I've been playing around with this, and I really like it. I'm only still working on debugging my first two boards, but I plan to make a lot more.
Anyone with experience with an Electrical Engineering major? What was the major like, and what do you do now? What type of jobs are out there for an electrical engineer?
Everything you need to know for pedal design could be satisfied with one or two introductory courses in EE, most likely.
If you pursue EE, that's pretty much all you are going to do for the next four to five years. The first year or so is the toughest because they try to weed out a lot of students. At least, that was the case at UT Austin. My dorm was exclusively science/engineering guys and let me tell you: the engineering students worked harder and studied more than anyone. Plus, you'll end up taking nearly as much math as a Math major, so make sure you like lots of math like Calculus, Linear Algebra, Probability, and so on. And computer programming.
Anyway, I don't have an EE degree, although I would probably get one if I did college all over. Or, not go to college at all and spent that money starting my own business. I'm not trying to discourage you in any way. If you want to build pedals for a living, then you should build pedals. If you want a career that might not involve pedal making, then EE is solid. Or, it could serve as a incredible foundation for designing audio electronics. It's just a lot different now for students than 15-20 years ago. Unless you are well off, or have scholarships, then you are looking at starting your working life with $40k or more in debt when you graduate. It's so out of control.
I will say this: nothing in my life has challenged me as much as my Bachelors (Math, Astronomy minor). There were a lot of intellectual highs and lows. Sometimes I would leave class with my brain just BUZZING....like an endorphin kick or something. That brain training has paid me back tenfold of the course of my life.
Astronomy Brian!? Do you have a scope? I have an nexstar 8se which gathers dust because I'm always too busy building pedals. It pains me to see it neglected.
I notice people that have gone through these studies tend to have an easier time grasping concepts, particularly when they are mathematics related. I have absolutely no hope with maths which makes my love affair with pedal modding or "designing" a slow and difficult task.
That's ok I'm a medical student with a degree in biology and a minor in math and I have a hard time with electrical concepts, although I haven't honestly read up on them much. I will say my old roommate was an EE major but burned out and switched majors to mechanical because of being overworked but to each their own.
I have a bachelors in mechanical engineering and am a licensed professional in multiple jurisdictions. The positives - I have travelled the world on someone else's dime and the money can be very good, depending on where you are. But it is an insane amnount of work in school, you are only looking at a 40% completion ratio, and unless you are willing to relocate or take some big career risks, you can get stuck in a dead end job pretty quick. It's also a highly volatile industry, I've worked for companies who have doubled in size over a year, then cut 70% of their staff in a month when a project got shelved.
That being said, it was the right choice for me and I like what I do. I, like you, figured I would use my schooling towards instrument development. I now have designed minig equipment for 15 years.....
As far as a major and minor, forget it, you won't have the time or the energy and will end up dropping one or both. You probably did pretty good in high school, but that is no indicator when it comes to engineering - I took the grade 12 Canadian Acturial Math exam in tenth grade and finished in the top 11% in the country. And I nearly flunked out in first year.
As a discipline goes, electrical isn't a bad choice. If I were to do it again I'd probably go civil structural, as it is the widest ranging discipline.
Anyway, if you need more input PM me and I'll do my best to advise.
Quote from: chromesphere on January 17, 2014, 01:31:55 AM
Astronomy Brian!? Do you have a scope?
It would go to waste where I live (too much light pollution). Sadly, I've only ever seen the Milky Way in its full glory 3 or 4 times. Mostly I was interested in physics and cosmology. I really wanted to become a professor and research large scale galactic structures or do something interdisciplinary, but not nearly as much as I wanted to be a professional musician, haha.
i'm a physicist, about 6months away from my PhD. You get a lot of experience with electronics working in experimental physics.
Thanks for the reply guys!
I'm not thinking about building pedals for a living. Actually like Brian, I'd love to be able to make music full time. I love recording songs in my bedroom.
I'm just exploring different things, electronics really interest me, wanted to do mechanical for a little bit, but these two majors scare me with the amount of work you have to put in and it's difficulty.
I also thought about audio engineering and music ministry. Don't know what I would do with audio engineering, though.
I'm trying to think about my college education as EDUCATION, and not what job my education will get me, but it's really hard to avoid the fact that money will always be scarce and I need to support my parents and my future family.
That's a lot to take on Brandon. I will oversimplify the complexities of life by saying 'do what you love the most'.
Trust me, if you can make a full time wage from a hobby you love, you will hate it in no time at all :D
Quote from: madbean on January 17, 2014, 01:50:50 AM
Quote from: chromesphere on January 17, 2014, 01:31:55 AM
Astronomy Brian!? Do you have a scope?
It would go to waste where I live (too much light pollution). Sadly, I've only ever seen the Milky Way in its full glory 3 or 4 times. Mostly I was interested in physics and cosmology. I really wanted to become a professor and research large scale galactic structures or do something interdisciplinary, but not nearly as much as I wanted to be a professional musician, haha.
Light pollution didn't stop our mutual buddy Dave, who just spent a metric truckload on the STAND for his latest telescope.
The stand is just as important as the OTA, especially at high mag. sorry for the hijack. Please continue :)
Quote from: chromesphere on January 17, 2014, 04:44:56 AM
The stand is just as important as the OTA, especially at high mag. sorry for the hijack. Please continue :)
He got this one:
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/mounts/900gto/900gto
/ end of thread jack
/ maybe
Quote from: chromesphere on January 17, 2014, 03:18:55 AM
That's a lot to take on Brandon. I will oversimplify the complexities of life by saying 'do what you love the most'.
Trust me, if you can make a full time wage from a hobby you love, you will hate it in no time at all :D
Agree! To oversimplify even more, do the thing you would do even if you had to do it all day for free.
I did 2 years of mech eng studies, made it through the weed out courses and finally realized it wasn't at all what I wanted to do for the next 40 years.
If there's something you're really interested in, see if you can spend some time with someone who's been doing that job for at least 4-5 years. You'll learn a lot in no time.
Quote from: pickdropper on January 17, 2014, 05:02:09 AM
Quote from: chromesphere on January 17, 2014, 04:44:56 AM
The stand is just as important as the OTA, especially at high mag. sorry for the hijack. Please continue :)
He got this one:
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/mounts/900gto/900gto
/ end of thread jack
/ maybe
/ restarting hi jack
Holy mother of telescope stands...what the hell size OTA is he using with that beast?
Quote from: chromesphere on January 17, 2014, 05:08:22 AM
Quote from: pickdropper on January 17, 2014, 05:02:09 AM
Quote from: chromesphere on January 17, 2014, 04:44:56 AM
The stand is just as important as the OTA, especially at high mag. sorry for the hijack. Please continue :)
He got this one:
http://www.astro-physics.com/index.htm?products/mounts/900gto/900gto
/ end of thread jack
/ maybe
/ restarting hi jack
Holy mother of telescope stands...what the hell size OTA is he using with that beast?
I think it's an ED152. It's not heavy at all, really. Carbon fiber, 20 lbs or so. There's also a CCD, but I don't think that weighs much either.
hm... astronomy... interesting...
Quote from: wgc on January 17, 2014, 05:05:43 AM
Quote from: chromesphere on January 17, 2014, 03:18:55 AM
That's a lot to take on Brandon. I will oversimplify the complexities of life by saying 'do what you love the most'.
Trust me, if you can make a full time wage from a hobby you love, you will hate it in no time at all :D
Agree! To oversimplify even more, do the thing you would do even if you had to do it all day for free.
I did 2 years of mech eng studies, made it through the weed out courses and finally realized it wasn't at all what I wanted to do for the next 40 years.
If there's something you're really interested in, see if you can spend some time with someone who's been doing that job for at least 4-5 years. You'll learn a lot in no time.
Thanks for saying that, guys. The biggest things I want to learn are all in music. Music theory, singing, songwriting, audio engineering and recording, all that fun stuff. I feel like I'm just scared to jump into all that. I've just had so many people pushing me away from that and politely hinting that it isn't easy to get good jobs in those fields (them being polite about it just pisses me off, like why can't you be real with me? Don't pretend that you support what I do if you're trying to tell me not to do it >:() My youth pastor and one of my old counselors are two of the handful of people in my life who encourage me to do music. Finding your calling is so hard...
Awesome scope, would love to see the stars through that set up, amazing! Luckily in Australia its not QUITE so hard to get clear skies. My light pollution is 'average'.
/end of hi jack
Brandon, I don't do my passion as a day job. I do office work. I wish I COULD do my passion as my day job. It would be a lot more fulfilling. Maybe one day who knows. Its tough to work out. You could hedge both bets, learn a trade you know you'll get work with and keep your passion in part time (like I do). A friend of mine works in an office environment, LOVES audio engineering. He records bands part time. That sort of thing.
Quote from: chromesphere on January 17, 2014, 07:35:12 AM
Awesome scope, would love to see the stars through that set up, amazing! Luckily in Australia its not QUITE so hard to get clear skies. My light pollution is 'average'.
/end of hi jack
Brandon, I don't do my passion as a day job. I do office work. I wish I COULD do my passion as my day job. It would be a lot more fulfilling. Maybe one day who knows. Its tough to work out. You could hedge both bets, learn a trade you know you'll get work with and keep your passion in part time (like I do). A friend of mine works in an office environment, LOVES audio engineering. He records bands part time. That sort of thing.
That would be pretty nice, as long as I don't hate my day job. If I do that, I'd feel like a rebel musician ;)
I don't 'hate' my day job as such, I'm just not enthusiastic about it like I am with other things. That's probably the compromised approach I suppose.
I'm about to finish my Telecommunications degree here in Spain, which is nearly the same as an EE degree.
I've learn quite a lot about protocols, signal treatment and radiofreq and the basic about opamps and discrete electronics, but everything else that has some relationship with pedals has been learnt in the forums or self-taught.
Seriously man you HAVE to do what you love to do. I learned the hard way as many others have. I spent 60K in college and have a masters in Occupational Therapy. I did/do find OT to be a great job BUT was it my "passion"? No.
After dealing with some personal health issues and getting a severe reality check, I came to realize that indeed life is short and a truly a gift. I pursued by own small business repairing and building guitars and amps and have not looked back, this is my passion and I love it.
I made ALOT more money in healthcare but have never been richer than I am now 8)
Quote from: pryde on January 17, 2014, 01:55:44 PM
Seriously man you HAVE to do what you love to do. I learned the hard way as many others have. I spent 60K in college and have a masters in Occupational Therapy. I did/do find OT to be a great job BUT was it my "passion"? No.
After dealing with some personal health issues and getting a severe reality check, I came to realize that indeed life is short and a truly a gift. I pursued by own small business repairing and building guitars and amps and have not looked back, this is my passion and I love it.
I made ALOT more money in healthcare but have never been richer than I am now 8)
Even if you do major in what you love --- the day will come when you won't find it rewarding. Particularly after you get married and have your first child (if you ever see yourself as the family man). I'm an EE and have no regrets, although if I didn't goto college I think I would probably have my own landscaping business by now and be equally satisfied. As I see it, you need to break your balls for a few years - you can do that in college or trying to start a business of some sort - either way the hard work will pay off.
My degree is in English (with enough credits for a minor in Russian, but Towson didn't have a Russian or foreign languages program, so no dice), with a focus in research and critical analysis. So I can't give an opinion about getting an EE degree. But I might have something useful for you to take away.
Here are the things I'm most interested in now: Music, electronics, astronomy, politics, books, and food. Here are the jobs I've held for any length of time since I turned 18: Russian linguist, elementary/secondary substitute teacher (and no, I didn't just babysit ... I actually taught the lessons), science editor (for PNAS), music writer/editor (this was volunteer for Driftwood Magazine, but it was basically a second full-time job), and paralegal.
I'm essentially self-taught in everything I do. Despite having a degree in English, the only job I've ever held "in my field," science editing, required far more expertise than my degree trained me for.
What I DID learn is how to learn -- as much as possible, quickly.
I'm not exactly successful in life, and I'm not the best at anything I do. But I muddle along. I have the free time to pursue things I'm interested in. I don't think I'd be a more successful musician if I'd studied music. I don't think I coulda been a rocket scientist. I would have hated being a cook. I originally wanted to go to college for Archaeology, but obviously I couldn't be further from that.
So I would say: Study what you really love, but get everything you can out of learning now. That's the real skill you'll learn from college.
Unless you want to get paid. In which case, learn a science. :)
Wow Jon, that's quite a testimony. It's Awesome that you still have free time for your hobbies. That's one of my fears because I love to record cover songs for YouTube and record my own music, but I barely had time for that this year and my last 2 years in high school. I have a bad habit of doing too much at the same time. I Probably have more hobbies than I can handle right now, but I Don't want to forsake any of them. There's so much to learn on the interwebs!
John's story is kind of like mine - except that I was an english/poli-sci major and went to law school. There are a two basic paths in life - the set path careers (doctor, lawyer, teacher, accountant, etc) and the people that just do those things which are steady, can be kind of boring, then there's the jump around path - start off doing one career, switch to another, move for opportunities, etc.
How much instability do you enjoy? Do you want to have a family? Was your life growing up stable? All of those things will influence what you want to do. I don't like instability, so I have taken a pretty stable path in my career/life. One of my best friends and roomates has done all sorts of things, is always jumping from company to company, doing business development and all sorts of weird voodoo, but enjoys the churn.
Good luck!
I have an EE degree from a Canadian university. It _was_ hard. I went because I got interested in musical electronics, but it was a toss-up for me between university for a bachelor's or college for a technician's certification. I had the grades to get into a pretty good school close to me so I opted for university, but in some ways I think a college degree may have been a better fit as the curriculum is more practical.
I recommend the university experience to almost everyone (it was pretty fun and a learning experience in itself), but you should be aware that very little of what you'll learn is directly applicable in musical electronics, especially in the first year. Very often, what you learn is so theoretical that it requires several layers of abstraction before it can really be used. I often felt that I was learning stuff just so I could pass the test about the stuff that I was supposed to learn. When I first entered the program, I was very keen on specializing in electronics, but after the introductory course in that area, all the courses mostly focus on the design of integrated circuits (which aren't very much like discrete electronics much at all). After I realized this, I decided on to focus on power systems which was the most practical sub-discipline offered by my school (software engineering, aka coding, is also fairly practical, but I'm not so good at programming).
Electrical engineering is pretty brutal when it comes to math. If you're dedicated, you can get by, but the degree becomes much easier if you like and/or are talented with math. I always struggled with courses that where very mathy.
I recently got my first job as a junior engineer. Jobs that involve the technical side of music are few and far between, so I work as a power systems/communications engineer in rail infrastructure. By 3rd and 4th year, I was actually able to apply some of the stuff I studied to effects pedals and such, but it's unlikely that I'll ever do it professionally. Overall, I think engineering is a pretty good career choice, but I wouldn't recommend starting this degree unless you are open to the idea of working in an industry other than music. An engineering degree opens up a lot of doors, but it is by far from a sure thing, no matter what you want to do.
There's a good part of me that wishes I had gone, not to get an EE degree, but rather an electrical technicians diploma at a college. I think they're applicable to this field.
I would love to have gone and gotten something like that, and then taken some sort of Luthier training. Spent my life as a pedal and amp tech, and building/repairing guitars.
That said, I love what I do, and I'm grateful for the 'hobby' of electronics and building pedals. I think I have a good balance going.
Jacob
Quote from: midwayfair on January 17, 2014, 04:05:59 PM
What I DID learn is how to learn -- as much as possible, quickly.
This might be difficult to explain, but I hear this all the time from people that have been to university. What does it mean?
Quote from: chromesphere on January 18, 2014, 02:09:10 AM
Quote from: midwayfair on January 17, 2014, 04:05:59 PM
What I DID learn is how to learn -- as much as possible, quickly.
This might be difficult to explain, but I hear this all the time from people that have been to university. What does it mean?
It's probably a bit different for everybody, but school is about having to digest information in a reasonably timely manner and learning how to do that is one of the best skills you can pickup. Basically, learning how to break down information to its more basic components and build it back up into things that are more complex.
It doesn't mean learning everything is easy (I struggle with certain things), but understanding the process makes it easier.
After some thought, I'll expand on engineering as a profession as a whole to maybe give you a better idea of the potential it may or may not hold for you as a career choice, as it applies to whatever discipline you elect to pursue.
While it is it's own dedicated professional, it is far less directional than most others. If you're going to be a doctor, you will be working in a health care facility of some sort, if you're a teacher, you'll be instructing in a learning facility, if you're a lawyer, you'll be practicing law in either a firm or integrated as a part of a legal team within a larger company (I am drastically oversimplifying things, I know, but I am trying to contrast the structure of other professions, so bear with me).
Engineering is not structured like that. You might go into research and development within a manufacturing firm, you might be a maintenance/reliability within an operating plant, you might end up working as a consulting engineer within a much larger firm, you might end up as a sales/applications engineer for firms with developed product line, etc, so it's not like you can say "I'm going to school for five years, then I'm going to work for ACME Engineering." The technical part of your career, for the most part, will be limited to the first 10 years after you graduate, most guys with upward mobility at that point move into project management or sales after that and mentor the younger engineers. Of course, this is not absolute, but it is the industry trend.
What you will learn in school will have very little bearing on what you use once you graduate. Point in case, for the field I specialize, there is not a dedicated program of study for in North America; there's one at the University of Hanover, and a couple in Australia, that's it. But as previously stated, it will teach you how to break down problems quickly and get to a solution.
I take a different approach to the "doing what you love" philosophy. I do not love my job, most days I like it, and when I don't, I change companies. BUt I do love the lifestyle it affords me and my wife, and as such I can survive anything it throws at me.
Anyway, don't know if any of that helps, but it gives a little bit of perspective.
Quote from: chromesphere on January 18, 2014, 02:09:10 AM
Quote from: midwayfair on January 17, 2014, 04:05:59 PM
What I DID learn is how to learn -- as much as possible, quickly.
This might be difficult to explain, but I hear this all the time from people that have been to university. What does it mean?
It
is kind of difficult to explain, and not everyone gets the same thing out of college for sure. And by no means does anyone need to go to college to be driven to do independent research, self-teach, be interested in learning, etc. My grandmother had an 8th grade education, worked as a waitress all her life, and is the only person in my family besides me who has actually read
The Name of the Rose cover to cover.
But I think the reason so many people get that out of higher education has to do with being surrounded by more people who, at all levels, like school enough to pay for the privilege of continuing beyond what is legal required of them, want to do well at something they're interested in, and thus foster a culture of learning. Some people certainly get that earlier than college (I knew high school students who were like this), but I think in college you're more likely to be exposed to an attitude that considers learning for its own sake a good thing.
Quote from: chromesphere on January 18, 2014, 02:09:10 AM
Quote from: midwayfair on January 17, 2014, 04:05:59 PM
What I DID learn is how to learn -- as much as possible, quickly.
This might be difficult to explain, but I hear this all the time from people that have been to university. What does it mean?
I think a simple way of stating it is: "In High School I learned how to repeat back information. In University, I learned how to acquire useful knowledge."
Jacob
Quote from: chromesphere on January 18, 2014, 02:09:10 AM
Quote from: midwayfair on January 17, 2014, 04:05:59 PM
What I DID learn is how to learn -- as much as possible, quickly.
This might be difficult to explain, but I hear this all the time from people that have been to university. What does it mean?
Lots of "cramming". After 4 years of this you become pretty adept at quickly skimming information to extract what's
really important. You have to apply this skill during class time also. Often times professors will assemble their exams from lectures only. Frequently those are the profs who enjoy hearing themselves talk :D
I'll chip in from the perspective of someone who didn't go to college and instead chased a career in music. I played extensively in bands in high school and wanted to go after that dream. I came home one day my senior year, told my dad not too worry about helping me pay for college cause I was gonna be a rockstar :D After a slow start I finally hooked up with a great band that had a hard working leader I learned how to hustle from. I spent the next six to eight years living on the road for the most part until I felt I could read the writing on the wall which was that the odds of making a decent living playing your original music are slim. It's one of the most crowded fields out there and I'm sure you know why. I eventually got off the road and started a landscape biz. which I do enjoy for the most part. I also started a small farm and still play and write music.
I am now interested in music electronics and the curriculum looks daunting at my age/responsibility level. Not to mention I have no interest in working for someone else so the degree itself isn't a big benefit. I am learning what I want to know for pedal/amp/guitar building and repair via the DIY community, books and hands on. I hope to make at least a part time biz. of it at some point. It's easy for me to think 'what if' when it comes to going to college but I probably would have majored in English or History since that was what interested me at that time outside of rawk.
My advice is to major in something practical that will likely get you a job should you need it. You are paying a lot for school so make it count. While you are there also take advantage and indulge your passions and interests. You may find a marriage of the practical and passion at some point. As Jon said, learn to learn. Every new venture has a steep learning curve and developing the discipline to meet it is invaluable. Good Luck!
3 months away from getting my EE degree
As mentioned already, an EE degree will not help you design pedals. It will however allow you to better understand, designs, critique them while giving you a totally different mindset than most professions will give you.
Being a EE is a great career choice though. Opens up many doors for you.
Thanks for the explanation guys! I was brought up in a family that focuses, probably more on 'charisma' then learning (although I am without a doubt the nerd of the family and the least charismatic for sure). I used really dislike learning. Being taught. I disliked being bombarded with information and expected to remember "useless information". That changed somewhere, early 20's maybe, when I started to self-teach and learn at my own pace and will. Having a problem, or a goal. Finding the information I need to solve / achieve it is quite rewarding! I guess this is similar to what you guys are saying, but just at a much slower pace.