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Projects => General Questions => Topic started by: davidnlsw on January 18, 2014, 03:15:48 AM

Title: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: davidnlsw on January 18, 2014, 03:15:48 AM
Hello all,

I've been doing research over the last week or two on putting together a "Yellow Shark" from the Haberdasher PCB. I've built a few BYOC kits but never done anything more complex or involved than that.

I've been searching around trying to find all the pieces I will need and here comes the first stupid question:

I'm looking at the parts list here (http://www.madbeanpedals.com/projects/YellowShark/docs/YellowShark.pdf) and I can't for the life of me figure out what C1 is. I'm a noob. What does a "47n" cap mean?

I'm looking to order the majority of pieces from small bear so if someone could lend a helping hand, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: GermanCdn on January 18, 2014, 03:30:00 AM
Welcome.

47n is 47 nanofarads, or 47nF in most places you will be buying from.  Likewise, 100p is 100 picofarads (100pF), and 2u2 is 2.2 microfarads (2.2uF).  One microfarad = 1000 nanofarads = 1 000 000 picofarads.  Sometimes you will see a variant in the listing, as in 47 nF listed as 0.047 uF; it's the same thing, just described a different way.

While we're at it, resistors are like this

100R - 100 ohms
100k - 100 kilo-ohms
1M - 1 Megaohm

1 M = 1000 k = 1000000 R.

Any other questions, ask away, and enjoy your build.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: GermanCdn on January 18, 2014, 03:31:54 AM
And while I'm at it

picofarad caps are generally ceramic disc

nanofarad caps are generally polyfilm (box) from 1nf to 1 uF

microfarad caps are generally electrolytic and are polarized.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: das234 on January 18, 2014, 03:32:10 AM
47n cap means 47 nano farad, sometimes abbreviated nf.  It's a standard measure, usually for film capacitors.  You'll see them when you go "shopping" at the electronics suppliers.  There is a lot of info for beginners on here and other forums so look around and don't be afraid to ask.  Guitarpcb.com has a crash course in pedal building that has some good starter info.  It's great fun learning and building so, enjoy!
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: das234 on January 18, 2014, 03:33:27 AM
Holy crap, Curtis, you're a fast replier. Got two in before I finished one.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: davidnlsw on January 18, 2014, 04:27:42 AM
Quote from: GermanCdn on January 18, 2014, 03:30:00 AM
Welcome.

47n is 47 nanofarads, or 47nF in most places you will be buying from.  Likewise, 100p is 100 picofarads (100pF), and 2u2 is 2.2 microfarads (2.2uF).  One microfarad = 1000 nanofarads = 1 000 000 picofarads.  Sometimes you will see a variant in the listing, as in 47 nF listed as 0.047 uF; it's the same thing, just described a different way.

While we're at it, resistors are like this

100R - 100 ohms
100k - 100 kilo-ohms
1M - 1 Megaohm

1 M = 1000 k = 1000000 R.

Any other questions, ask away, and enjoy your build.

After another couple hours of digging around I finally started to figure out the conversions you described. For whatever ever reason Small Bear seems to list all of their caps as either pF or uF. I finally found what I was looking for. Thank you so much for the quick response and the really great attitude.
Quote from: das234 on January 18, 2014, 03:32:10 AM
47n cap means 47 nano farad, sometimes abbreviated nf.  It's a standard measure, usually for film capacitors.  You'll see them when you go "shopping" at the electronics suppliers.  There is a lot of info for beginners on here and other forums so look around and don't be afraid to ask.  Guitarpcb.com has a crash course in pedal building that has some good starter info.  It's great fun learning and building so, enjoy!

Thanks a lot for your help. I appreciate it very much.

-David

PS: Never have I had such a fantastic very first experience with an online forum. You guys are great.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: gordo on January 18, 2014, 04:40:03 AM
You may as well get used to this level of help around here, it's just phenomenal.  The downside is that you'll need to keep this in mind as you gaze at pedals that only wizards could have built.  I try not to complain too much, but some nights I just cry myself to sleep knowing that my case etches look more like a shotgun blast than artwork  :D

Welcome aboard!
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: Vallhagen on January 18, 2014, 07:47:53 AM
Generally, learn the prefixes:

G= Giga = 10^9
M= Mega = 10^6
k (or sometimes capital K, though lowercase k is more correct) = Kilo = 10^3
m = milli = 10^-3
u (more properly the greek letter my, but we dont have that one on our keyboards) = micro =  10^-6
n = nano = 10^-9
p = pico = 10^-12

...from this, its obvious that 1000p=1n, 2u2 = 2200n etc.

... speaking about "2u2", note that it is the decimal point that is replaced by the "u" here. Just because it saves space; "2u2" is only three symbols while "2.2u" is four, right:).

... hope these few words added something. Welcome to the forum!

Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: alanp on January 18, 2014, 08:02:07 AM
Quote from: Vallhagen on January 18, 2014, 07:47:53 AM
... speaking about "2u2", note that it is the decimal point that is replaced by the "u" here. Just because it saves space; "2u2" is only three symbols while "2.2u" is four, right:).

Slightly wrong, here -- 2u2 saves you from bad photocopiers or bad eyesight -- you can miss a tiny little full stop . but you find it harder to miss a k or u.

2.2k or 2k2, one can be mistaken as 22k.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: Gledison on January 18, 2014, 02:43:54 PM
Hey mate.
Welcome to the addiction!!
the guys already answered your question. you might get also some app that converts units. ive got a couple of them and can be quite handy!sometimes things are in 6000pF, and u might lost a zero somewhere and that wont be good!
cheers
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: danwelsh on January 18, 2014, 03:17:45 PM
Quote from: Gledison on January 18, 2014, 02:43:54 PM
Hey mate.
Welcome to the addiction!!
the guys already answered your question. you might get also some app that converts units. ive got a couple of them and can be quite handy!sometimes things are in 6000pF, and u might lost a zero somewhere and that wont be good!
cheers

I use electrodroid....awesome app. its got voltage calculators, resistor ratio and color codes, smd codes, cap codes, pinouts...and a boatload lot more
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: davidnlsw on January 18, 2014, 03:47:26 PM
Thanks for all of the info guys, keep it coming if you like. I'm taking notes as well as digging through build threads here trying to learn more.

So where do you Bean masters buy your parts from? I'm familiar with Small Bear and mouser. Are there other great shops I should know about?
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: danwelsh on January 18, 2014, 03:53:44 PM
Quote from: davidnlsw on January 18, 2014, 03:47:26 PM
Thanks for all of the info guys, keep it coming if you like. I'm taking notes as well as digging through build threads here trying to learn more.

So where do you Bean masters buy your parts from? I'm familiar with Small Bear and mouser. Are there other great shops I should know about?

tayda is really good....link at top
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: rullywowr on January 18, 2014, 04:48:53 PM
On a related topic: I'm thinking we need a "parts sourcing sticky" thread as this question comes up almost daily. Mods? 
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: pryde on January 18, 2014, 06:04:14 PM
Here you go mang, for future reference a capacitor conversion chart to print out and hang on your wall  ;)

http://www.justradios.com/uFnFpF.html

Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: davidnlsw on January 18, 2014, 06:10:07 PM
Quote from: danwelsh on January 18, 2014, 03:53:44 PM
tayda is really good....link at top
Wow, tayda is great. I've been going through their stock and they have pretty much everything I need for this build.

For simplicity's sake I would like to order as much as possible from only 1 or 2 places. Tayda doesn't seem to have a "5v1 Zener Diode" (which is D7 in the build I'm working on).

Would it be okay to substitute that diode for a 1N4728 zener or something like that?
*edit* realized the 1N4728 couldn't handle the wattage, I think? So perhaps a 1N4746A zener?
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: pickdropper on January 18, 2014, 06:52:02 PM
If you are familiar with Mouser and Mouser, those are great places to buy parts.

Tayda has better pricing for some things, but the quality is somewhat hit or miss.  I recommend testing the parts from there before using them (whenever possible, of course).
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: das234 on January 18, 2014, 10:48:02 PM
Quote from: gordo on January 18, 2014, 04:40:03 AM
You may as well get used to this level of help around here, it's just phenomenal.  The downside is that you'll need to keep this in mind as you gaze at pedals that only wizards could have built.  I try not to complain too much, but some nights I just cry myself to sleep knowing that my case etches look more like a shotgun blast than artwork  :D

Welcome aboard!

Or in haveyouseenhim's case, the artwork might actually BE a shotgun blast.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: das234 on January 18, 2014, 10:54:59 PM
2 more things.

Check tayda again for that 5.1v Zener diode, I'm sure they have them.

Also, for what it's worth, when I get a giant baggie of components I make sure to label the capacitors uniformly for simplicity's sake.  If they aren't already labeled this way, I write the value in pf on the ceramic disk caps, nf on the film caps and uf on the electrolytics.  That's how I organize them on my inventory spreadsheet too.  It's just easier for me to keep them straight.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: brucer on January 19, 2014, 02:25:07 AM
Hi David.

I'm new to this too. Coincidentally, I've also just collected all the parts for a Yellow Shark build on one of Haberdasher's boards.  Since I'm new to electronics and pedal building I may not be the best reference, but a couple of things I'd add to the discussion so far:

- Before ordering parts, I make notes on what types of capacitors I need to get.  The first clue is the capacitor value.  As was mentioned earlier, pF usually means ceramic caps, nF usually means box/film caps and uF are typically electrolytic caps.  However, also have a look at the layout diagram.  Especially at Madbean, the electrolytic caps are illustrated with a "+" sign on the positive solder pad, box caps are rectangular and ceramic caps are elliptical.
- Small Bear uses "mF" instead of "uF", but they're the same thing.
- If you browse websites by the type of cap, the units might not be what you're expecting, so keep a conversion chart handy (I use the same one noted earlier http://www.justradios.com/uFnFpF.html).
- always check your resistor vales with a multimeter (they don't always come labelled.
- always socket your IC chips and transistors (so you don't fry them when soldering and maybe for swapping different ones in).

For what it's worth, based on chat in this forum and elsewhere, I been sourcing parts as follows:

Bitches Love My Switches:
3PDT switches
toggle switches
Neutrik, 1/4" and DC jacks

Smallbear Electronics:
Specialized parts:
electrolytic caps
trannies
IC's
diodes
pots (sometimes)

Mammoth Electronics:
pots (if name brand)
powdercoated, drilled boxes

Mouser:
parts I can't find elsewhere (I'm in Canada and shipping seems expensive.  Otherwise I might buy more here)

Tayda:
resistors
non-electrolytic caps
trannies (if name brand)
IC's (if name brand)
diodes
knobs
sockets
pots (if name brand)

Hope that helps.  Good luck with your build.

Bruce.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: davidnlsw on January 19, 2014, 02:43:49 AM
Quote from: das234 on January 18, 2014, 10:54:59 PM
2 more things.

Check tayda again for that 5.1v Zener diode, I'm sure they have them.

Also, for what it's worth, when I get a giant baggie of components I make sure to label the capacitors uniformly for simplicity's sake.  If they aren't already labeled this way, I write the value in pf on the ceramic disk caps, nf on the film caps and uf on the electrolytics.  That's how I organize them on my inventory spreadsheet too.  It's just easier for me to keep them straight.

Would this (http://www.taydaelectronics.com/diodes/zener/1n4733-zener-diode-1w-5-1v.html) be the zener diode I'm looking for? I was paying attention to the numbers at the beginning, not the voltage rating of the diode, I realized.

Do you just use a fine point sharpie to label your caps?
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: davidnlsw on January 19, 2014, 02:44:45 AM
Quote from: brucer on January 19, 2014, 02:25:07 AM
...
Hope that helps.  Good luck with your build.

Bruce.
Thanks for all the useful info, Bruce. Hope to see a successful build thread for your Yellow Shark soon!
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: AntKnee on January 19, 2014, 04:11:38 AM
I am in nearly the same situation, except I'm building a Low Rider. I have built a few byoc kits and am embarking on my first adventure sourcing all the parts for the build. I went through the same confusioon with the caps. Everything else was fairly easy to figure out and locate. I have found some of the information in this thread helpful, so I also thank everyone for their willingness to help. Don't be surprised to find some more noob questions from me in another thread.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: das234 on January 19, 2014, 04:26:20 AM


Would this (http://www.taydaelectronics.com/diodes/zener/1n4733-zener-diode-1w-5-1v.html) be the zener diode I'm looking for? I was paying attention to the numbers at the beginning, not the voltage rating of the diode, I realized.

Do you just use a fine point sharpie to label your caps?
[/quote]
That's the one I was thinking of.  I've used them before.

I keep the parts in the little baggies and I just write on the baggies under the original labeling.  Then I store my stuff in Plano style tackle box trays to keep it organized.  There's at least one thread out there on how to store your parts if you're interested.  It won't be long before you have a mountain of them.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: davidnlsw on January 19, 2014, 04:42:00 AM
Quote from: das234 on January 19, 2014, 04:26:20 AM
That's the one I was thinking of.  I've used them before.

I keep the parts in the little baggies and I just write on the baggies under the original labeling.  Then I store my stuff in Plano style tackle box trays to keep it organized.  There's at least one thread out there on how to store your parts if you're interested.  It won't be long before you have a mountain of them.

So with diodes, you only need to pay attention to the voltage, not the numbers at the beginning? That's just a part number or something?

I'm planning my run to the store to look at tackle boxes, etc even now :)
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: das234 on January 19, 2014, 05:52:02 PM
The part numbers are not as important as the voltage.  The different part numbers account for things like different tolerances and maximum wattage.  Tayda's are 1w max, 5% tolerance and, as far as I know ought to work with any of the projects on here.  Someone more knowledgeable can feel free to weigh in on that.

The boxes I use are the Plano model 3600 or 3700 (whichever is bigger) trays with the little movable dividers.  I keep resistors in one box, capacitors in another, ICs in another, etc.  It works great for me.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: davidnlsw on January 21, 2014, 03:24:12 AM
Well I just placed an order through Taydo for all the pieces I will need to put this build together! I already ordered the PCB and I am waiting to hear back from Pedalpartsplus regarding the enclosure.

I have a BYOC Bluesbreaker on my board now, so I'd like to build the Honey Bee in a 125B with top mounted jacks so they can sit right next to each other.

Once all the parts arrive, I'll start a build thread. Thank you so much for all the help everyone!

-David
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: davidnlsw on January 27, 2014, 04:52:19 PM
Alright, I got my haberdasher etched PCB and all the parts from Tayda in today. I'm ready to start building!

Here comes a stupid question:

Which side of the etched board should I mount the parts on?
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: GermanCdn on January 27, 2014, 05:07:46 PM
You solder the components to the side with the copper trace, so the components get mounted on the bare side (no trace).
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: davidnlsw on January 27, 2014, 05:15:14 PM
Thanks, sir.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: davidnlsw on January 27, 2014, 07:16:17 PM
About 1/3rd of the way through assembly. No disasters so far!

I can't tell you all how much I appreciate your help.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: davidnlsw on January 27, 2014, 08:06:11 PM
Here's another question:

I've got a few cap values I ordered in that are electrolytic, but the PCB seems to plan on those values being box caps. Does it matter which way I orient those pieces?
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: AntKnee on January 27, 2014, 09:47:10 PM
Yes, it does, and you don't want to put them in backwards or it will fry the electrolytic cap. I recommend ordering the box caps that you need to do it right. Went through this myself recently.
Title: Re: First DIY project. Probably some really silly questions to follow:
Post by: davidnlsw on January 27, 2014, 09:57:53 PM
Quote from: AntKnee on January 27, 2014, 09:47:10 PM
Yes, it does, and you don't want to put them in backwards or it will fry the electrolytic cap. I recommend ordering the box caps that you need to do it right. Went through this myself recently.
I figured that would be the answer :/

Ah well, my enclosure isn't here yet anyway.