I'm having a dreadful run of bad luck here. I've built 7 pedals in the last few days and none of them are working! I think a couple of them may be due to my 3PDT board, but when I tried one without it, it still didn't work! One of the boards I know definitely works as I built one previously for a friend. All seem to have absolutely no signal through them, although the LED lights up.
I know my power pack was playing up when I took it to a friends house for him to try a few pedals, hope it's just that.
Also, it would happen when I've finally managed to do the neatest wiring I've ever done on a pedal......
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/24/ebyju8uv.jpg)
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7 in a few days? I'm still a newbie to building, but if I went that fast, I would surely have problems, too. Don't give up. Maybe just take a couple days break and when you come back to it, the problem will be more obvious. That happens to me a lot, not just with pedals.
You're showing a picture of a finished pedal. Have you verified that these work outside of the box without a switch?
The number one recommendation for trouble shooting is always "rock before you box" or, try the effect before you do the wiring. Doing that BEFORE you box up the effect helps you find the issue. If it's on the PCB, you find it before it's in the enclosure. If it's in your wiring, then you'll know because you verified the PCB works fine.
Jacob
With such little information, Im gonna give a WAG (Wild AZZ guess!!)
What is common in all 7 of the builds? If it is your 3PDT boards... I'd start there ;)
Also, are you at least getting bypass signal? If not.... DEFINITELY start with the boards.
How many of the have JFETs, and how many of those did you buy from (insert inexpensive supplier name here)? That's been the common denominator in most of my DOAs as of late, though I haven't bought new transistors to replace yet.
I have been very frustrated with builds before but having a simple test rig with to test things before I box them has earned its weight in gold. I have even played pedals for weeks with it sitting on my floor hooked up to the test rig just to make sure I want to box it up or to work out any bugs. Everyone has given you some great ideas as far as what to look for. All I can add is, don't give up. Its VERY rewarding to get a box up and running that has been a thorn in your side. A sense of "BOOM! I got ya". I have called circuits names that I would not even call my enemies.. Hope it works out for you.
Cody
Yeah... I don't think any of my circuits would work if I was using surface mount. Hang in there buddy. Take a break for a few days and comeback when you're ready. I think it happens to everyone once and a while.
Any chance you've got the workings of the 3DPT switch rotated 90 degrees?
Definitely don't quit man.....I had an English sustain pedal that I populated and wouldn't work...I got so pissed I was gonna chuck it, but then I stayed stubborn, left it for a whole year while I carried on with other builds, desoldered the whole board,checked all the traces for continuity, repopulated, plugged in to my testing rig and bang.....fired right up. It was a very rewarding feeling.
I have a few pigtail 9v battery cables that I soldered up center-negative (and labeled prominently as such) to test with.
I'm an SMD newb and can't visually tell if I soldered an 0805 component correctly, so I still use a meter to check for continuity, etc.
In any case, I agree--that is some neat wiring.
Yea that sucks man. I've been there. I went on a 3 in a row streak of not working boards and I was so frustrated I wanted to stab people with my soldering iron. I put the builds down for a few days, picked them up later and debugged them. Sometimes you just gotta take your time, some of the mistakes i found in my builds were so dumb i couldn't believe i missed them. Like a backward electrolytic or something stupid like that. So maybe take a little break and come back later, it helped me.
FWIW I've never made a CE-2 clone that's worked first time. That effect hates me.
Quote from: evildead222 on January 24, 2014, 06:28:14 AM
I was so frustrated I wanted to stab people with my soldering iron.
Look... I know next to nothing compared to some of the guys on this forum, but looking at your picture, next to where it says "AM Rad" it looks like you've got a couple of empty sockets for something (transistor? diodes?). Maybe if you populate that it'll work.
Steve have you done any audioprobing on the circuit? Does the signal get past the 3pdt and into the board at all?
Antknee - I may have to take a break soon if I can't get the buggers working this afternoon. I found that building the 7 in a few days wasn't too bad, it's just the wiring that takes a lot of time.
Jacob - I always box before I rock. I know I shouldn't, just a force of habit. I really do need to build up a testing rig soon though. I didn't mean to stick that picture in the post, not entirely sure why it's there. But it's a good example of the neat wiring in the pedal, took me ages to do that, normally they look like spaghetti!
Govmnt_Lacky - Yeah, all 7 of them used the 3PDT board. I removed one and wired it to the switch, and put on another board backwards, all the same result. They are all passing a bypass signal though.
GermanCdn - A few of the components on each board were from that supplier. 1-2 caps or resistors as I wasn't placing an order with my normal supplier for a while, but they all tested withing range. On my LofoMofo, the transistor and diode were from a certain cheap supplier, only because that's the only place I could find them cheap.
Selfdetroyer - Yeah, I definately need a testing rig. Normally when circuits don't work, they go into my box of fail, never to see the light of day again! Thing is, 3 of them are new boards and un-verified, so I'm not sure if it's the circuit or the wiring. But even boards that I know are verified are having the same problem.
Gjcamann - I've just discovered I really enjoy SMD, so I'm trying to make all my pedals SMD so been designing some older designs. With the 3PDT board, I've tried it normal and back to front still with the same results. I know I had a problem with it before and had to put it on back to front or something, not 100% sure, but all my pedals with the correct mounting for it my friends have, 1 is currently on holiday and the other is currently living in Spain until the end of the month, so I can't even check!
Danwelsh - I can't believe you desoldered the whole board! That's commitment! I bet you felt on top of the world when it worked!
Derevaun - Same here, I can't tell if a component is soldered in correctly or not. I'm planning on going through them later and checking each one. That's a good idea with the battery clips, I may need to do that one day!
Evildead222 - I know I've already put the M1 diodes in the wrong way as I tested them on the DMM. I've swapped them round and still no luck. I would love to leave them for a few days, but I was awake most of the night wondering what I've done wrong!
Juansolo - Maybe it's a sign you shouldn't build them haha!
Haveyouseenhim - Who is that guy in the video? I swear it's someone from the Sopranos.
Willybomb - Good spot there. I didn't realise it when I took the picture and proceeded to test the circuit, then I stuck the transistor in. When I was testing the pedals yesterday, I either forgot the transistor, for to switch the power pack on, forgot to switch the amp on, or forgot to plug a cable in somewhere. Sad thing is I keep making those mistakes!
Muddyfox - Absolutely no idea. I do need to build one ideally, but I'm planning on testing it with my DMM as much as I can later. Annoying this is it's 3 of the SMD boards that don't seem to work. I'm just hoping it's in the wiring somewhere though.
IT WAS JOE DIRT! JOE DIRT! JOE DIRT!
I'm not thinking straight at the moment as I was up stupidly early for work today. But I've tested my AM Radios (both of them) with the continuity tester on my DMM. Checked the joints with it and all the wires and everything was fine. Apart from when I tested the power and ground.
If the power supply is off, then there is no continuity, but when the power is switched on, there is continuity between the two. Now, am I being silly in my sleepy state, or would I be correct in saying there is a short somewhere on the boards? Or is it just the DMM making a complete circuit?
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Quote from: stevie1556 on January 25, 2014, 07:14:02 PM
If the power supply is off, then there is no continuity, but when the power is switched on, there is continuity between the two.
I'm sorry Steve, I'm not following. "Between the two"... two what?
Is your pedal wired as true bypass?
Quote from: muddyfox on January 25, 2014, 09:31:06 PM
I'm sorry Steve, I'm not following. "Between the two"... two what?
Is your pedal wired as true bypass?
Hey G,
I've just re-read what I wrote and it wasn't clear. I ment that when the power is switched off, there is no continuity between the positive and negative terminals. However, when the power is applied, with the pedal in either bypass or on, I get continuity between the + and - within the pedal. But, it's only if I put the positive probe of the DMM on ground, and the negative probe on any 9V connector.
Surely it should be the other way round. I'm pretty sure I've got the wiring right, unless I've messed up 7 wirings in a row.
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Errrr... so if I'm understanding you correctly, you are trying to test the continuity of the entire board?
It's been almost 20 years since I leant about these things last but here's what I (think I) remember.
Continuity testing is actually testing the resistance between your test points. If those two points are at a same electrical potential, there's no resistance between them and you consider them connected and your DMM beeps. When your battery isn't connected, you are measuring the resistance between 9V pad and a ground pad. Since there are components between those potentials, depending on what sort of components are there I'm guessing you could read anything between kOhms and MOhms on your DMM (and your DMM set for continuity wouldn't beep). Now, once you connect your 9V battery, everything changes. 9V battery has what, 1Ohm, 2Ohm internal resistance? On one side, your dmm sees a bunch of Ohms (your circuit) and on the other side it sees say 1Ohm and concludes that it's low enough and can be considered electrically connected and it beeps.
Again, it's been a while so I may be talking out of my arse but there's plenty of smart people who can set me straight if I misspoke.
Also, this in no way helps you troubleshoot your circuit. ::) As long as you have a dmm in hand, check continuity between your jacks and 3pdt, 3pdt and pcb and see if things change as they should when you press the switch (input gets connected to output on 3pdt etc).
Yesterday I was testing a relay switching board that I had fabbed to use instead of the wicked switches CMOS switching scheme, because the latter board had a weird attenuated signal happening. And then, the relay switching scheme had the same tone-suck attenuated signal. So, the only advice I can give after nearly tossing out another board is, are you sure your cables are working OK?
In any case, having a didn't-work-on-first-try box is a really good idea. I wish I hadn't thrown out a board or two.
Actually, I'm pretty sure you shouldn't ever be reading continuity between power and ground. Sounds like you've got a short somewhere.
First off, that wiring looks gorgeous. Don't quit, it would really be a shame to put those skills on a shelf.
I will say though, 7 pedals in such a short period is suspect. That's a lot of work in a short period of time. Consider the speed/quality/cost paradigm... You only get two.
You should rock before you box. It's really the best way to know your circuit works. No 3pdt, jacks, or wiring etc to cloud the issue.
To give you an idea, I just spent most of my weekend drilling and fitting four enclosures... Worked on the graphics made sure they fit too. Next weekend I hope to have time to envirotex them... And maybe get them all permanently wired. I probably took 2-3 months getting the boards stuffed and tested.
So what I'm saying is, take your time. Pick one up from the pile of fail, take it out of the enclosure. Get it working, box it back up, then move to the next.
You can get them all working... Just take your time... And maybe take a break before you dive back in.
Aballen - I know what you mean about taking your time with them. I have a fairly local place that drills them on CNC (it took me hours with marking out and using the drill press, and the holes still weren't accurately drilled). I'll then powder coat them and take them back down there to have the labels laser etched, so the box finishing doesn't take too long thankfully.
Lincolnic - That's what I thought but I think it's my tester is making the connection between the two.
Derevaun - I know a few of my cables are intermittent, but when I'm testing they seem to be ok. A box of fail is definitely a good idea, when I split with the ex last year I was in a rush to get out the house and threw away loads of non working circuits as I didn't have the space to pack them.
G - Cheers for sending the instructions on a audio probe!
Thanks to Muddyfox, I crudely constructed my first audio probe! One of these would have saved me so many hours on my previous box of fail! My AM Radios I found the problem, I didn't have a capacitor, so I stuck 2 together and they aren't working (the same technique has worked in another part of the circuit though). I now have sound coming out of them and the volume pot works, when the new caps come I'll swap them over and hopefully the gain pot will then be fully working. On the other one, I've somehow managed to swap the input and output jacks! It's basically a LofoMofo, and I must say, even with just the volume pot, it's great fun to play with!
Another pedal, after testing it again, it did seem to work, but with 'bop bop bop bop bop' coming through the speaker (really loudly). I found it was a bad IC, but when I was removing it I ripped up a pad. It's only a ground pad so I'll attempt to run a wire from it to ground. I'm just worried that all my ICs might be bad as they turned up in tin foil! FYI - desoldering a SMD chip is a PITA.
I'm on standby today, so if I'm not called out, I'll be designing a nice testing rig, with hopefully a few useful features. I've been very lucky to last this long without one though.
You may want to save yourself some time and wait for Jacob's testing rig that's (hopefully) about to make an appearance before long.
OTOH, any circuit design practice is good practice so you may want to do your own despite of it. 8)
Quote from: muddyfox on January 29, 2014, 12:41:26 PM
You may want to save yourself some time and wait for Jacob's testing rig that's (hopefully) about to make an appearance before long.
OTOH, any circuit design practice is good practice so you may want to do your own despite of it. 8)
I've been waiting with baited breath since it was announced! I've got the basics nearly laid out on paper, but if the testing rig if about to be released then I'll probably wait for that.
I want to say to everyone, a massive thank you for all the help and advice! Not only on this thread, but I used the search function recently to look some things up and the forum is truely a gigantic wealth of knowledge!
With my AM radios, they are now working! The new caps turned up, so I replaced the double cap solution that I did, and still no working gain pot. After scratching my head, I realised that I connected the gain pot after C1, not before. I scrapped the trace off the board, added a small wire, and now it works perfectly! Great little circuit, and great fun to play through! I've still got 8 boards left if anyone wants to try it out.
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