Hey guys.
i was searching on the web for some tutorials about using epoxy resins for the clear coat but couldnt find anything really clear..well, the coats where clear :P
i've seen that some of you use the resin with great results.
Does someone have any tip or know any tutorial about using the epoxy resins?
im getting annoyed of several clear coats using acrylic spray.
i have open questions when using the epoxy resin such as : it can form little air bubbles during the mixing, how to avoid them? I've seen a guy using fire or a heat gun on the surface (i would like to avoid this procedure)
well, if you have any suggestion, tips, tutorials, pictures of your builds, would be great..
Thanks in advance
Gledison
Envirotex is really easy to use. As long as you mix the resin + hardener in equal parts (very important!) and mix thoroughly, you will have great results. It's really very easy and produces much better results quicker than any rattle can. I've only done 3 to date and all of them have been way better than any clear coat I have tried.
Don't worry about the bubbles and having to use a torch to get them out. In the instructions, they instruct you to blow (exhale) on the finish which helps remove the bubbles. It's not the heat which gets them out, its the CO2 in your breath which helps them come to the surface. It's actually pretty neat to see all these tiny bubbles move to the surface and pop like they do when looking at a soda in a glass (like Coca Cola or Sprite). A torch makes this easier but you can get great results just by exhaling on the surface.
Just ensure you put it in a level place to dry, and that you remove any waterslide covering the holes first before you apply envirotex. It helps to apply decal, let dry, cut out holes where pots/switches go, and then use a bit of masking tape from the backside to plug the hole. Apply envirotex with a popsicle stick, clean up any runs with a lint free towel and isopropyl alchohol. Once it's dry you can use a step bit to cut out the holes again. That's it.
Also, when you put it somewhere to dry...be sure to cover it with a clean box or container so you don't get any dust settling in your finish. Juan + Cleggy have a great tutorial on it. Don't be skeeerred. It's easy.
Here is a link to their tutorial: http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/finishing.html
Cleggy has discovered a new trick with 'tex that appears to do wonders for our finishes.
Heat the bottles up baby bottle stylie prior to mixing it. Basically stick them in a bowl of hotish water for 5-10 mins. The pours we've been getting since he's started doing that have been like glass.
I really need to update that with that snippet... done.
Quote from: rullywowr on January 29, 2014, 10:58:10 PM
Don't be skeeerred. It's easy.
There you have it. I was kind of hanging back like you were, but when you made the leap I knew I had to take off my pull ups and put on my big boy pants and get it done.
Hey guys, thanks a lot! That is a great tutorial and i will definatly try it.
Just one thing, how does it works with the enclosure's sides? Shall i pour it and let it run over the edges? Orits suppoaed to be only for the top part?
Thanks a lot!
We only do the tops, but some do full pours. Suck it and see which you prefer.
Quote from: juansolo on January 29, 2014, 11:24:15 PM
Cleggy has discovered a new trick with 'tex that appears to do wonders for our finishes.
Heat the bottles up baby bottle stylie prior to mixing it. Basically stick them in a bowl of hotish water for 5-10 mins. The pours we've been getting since he's started doing that have been like glass.
I really need to update that with that snippet... done.
This is interesting. As I won't be doing huge batches and will mix a bit at a time, do you think it could hurt the big 'tex bottles to be constantly reheated? could I just heat the mixing plastic cups' worth?
Also, does heating affect the amount of bubbles?
Quote from: rullywowr on January 29, 2014, 10:58:10 PM
As long as you mix the resin + hardener in equal parts (very important!)
I was thinking of maybe weighing the cups to get equal parts? Is it the weight that needs to be the same or the volume? Or is it not that crucial?
Quote from: rullywowr on January 29, 2014, 10:58:10 PM
Also, when you put it somewhere to dry...be sure to cover it with a clean box or container so you don't get any dust settling in your finish.
Would it help to prop the covering up a bit? Lack of air circulation can't be good for drying...?
Quote from: juansolo on January 30, 2014, 09:36:56 AM
We only do the tops, but some do full pours. Suck it and see which you prefer.
Suck it? i thought we need to blow it? :P
im already starting tests, lets see how it goes..
thanks man for the great tutorial
[/quote]
I was thinking of maybe weighing the cups to get equal parts? Is it the weight that needs to be the same or the volume? Or is it not that crucial?
[/quote]
Hey man. in the envirotex specs it says equal volumes. The density of the epoxy and the polyamine seems to be the same, so if you measure in weigh as well shouldn´t be a problem.
Thanks man!
Honestly, I didn't crack the box open yet so I don't know what the instructions say. I often don't RTFM anyways. ::)
Since I'm gonna be working with smaller batches, I'm guessing weighing may be more precise. Some testing is in order, that's for sure. ;)
Quote from: juansolo on January 29, 2014, 11:24:15 PM
Cleggy has discovered a new trick with 'tex that appears to do wonders for our finishes.
Heat the bottles up baby bottle stylie prior to mixing it. Basically stick them in a bowl of hotish water for 5-10 mins. The pours we've been getting since he's started doing that have been like glass.
I really need to update that with that snippet... done.
Interesting.
Heating the epoxy once mixed lowers the viscosity and speeds up the exothermic curing process. Mixing the two components when warm should do the same thing. It also should lower the viscosity level, but the overall cure time would be reduced.
Have you noticed it running down the sides a bit more with this process?
Dave, I dont get it running down the sides anymore, I can just about get the perfect amount everytime. If I realise theres a little too much i use the stirring stick and scoop off 1cm along the edge, so it never gets the chance to run down the sides.
The last 8 pours have been pretty much perfect, the best i've done.
The envirotex is noticably clearer when i've mixed it when warmed, and much less bubbles when applied.
Is it safe to heat and reheat the bottles or should I measure out a normal amount and heat it?
Quote from: marauder on January 30, 2014, 02:54:51 PM
Dave, I dont get it running down the sides anymore, I can just about get the perfect amount everytime. If I realise theres a little too much i use the stirring stick and scoop off 1cm along the edge, so it never gets the chance to run down the sides.
The last 8 pours have been pretty much perfect, the best i've done.
The envirotex is noticably clearer when i've mixed it when warmed, and much less bubbles when applied.
Very cool. I may give that a go on my next pour. I've oven cured epoxy a ton of times after mixing, but never preheated it. Thanks for the tip.
Does anyone know how to get Envirotex in Germany or similar product?
There is an epoxy resin by Toolcraft that could be similar to envirotex, i will give it a try on the weekend anyways, but would be better to start with the original envirotex...
Danke!!
This was my text tutorial. I wish I would have gone back and added pics but just never got around to it.
http://byocelectronics.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37541&hilit=envirotex+tutorial
This is the jig thread
http://byocelectronics.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=36406&hilit=envirotex+jig
Quote from: TNblueshawk on January 30, 2014, 07:17:12 PM
This was my text tutorial. I wish I would have gone back and added pics but just never got around to it.
http://byocelectronics.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37541&hilit=envirotex+tutorial
This is the jig thread
http://byocelectronics.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=36406&hilit=envirotex+jig
hey man! good idea with the jig. i have a reason now to buy a new pair of shoes..eheh
look, after reading your tutorial (great btw), im wondering if would not be easier to drill all the holes after the pouring. i could print the same decal with the drill holes points on a transparent slide and adjust on the enclosure... What do you thinkg? or is difficult to drill over the epoxy?
thanks for sharing mate!
It's not difficult to drill through the epoxy at at all but the issue is really drilling into the decal and into the metal and not pulling that decal with the drill bit. I've always just been to scared to do it I suppose. Before I did that I would drill the holes in the metal first, put the decal on and then use painters tape inside the enclosure and plug it up basically. Then if you drill after you are only drilling through the epoxy and that is it.
Since drill bits pull up debris as I got close to the edges of the hole I would reverse the drill just as a precaution. So say use a little smaller bit than the hold size, drill it out. Step up on the bit, reverse the drill and hope for the best.
Keep in mind I've not done this but this is how I would do it and thought about it many times.
Also, Parks Glaze is the same as Envirotex. Not sure if they might have that where you are at.
just to put my 2 cents in
since going to envirotex and juansolo tutorial, im much happier with my build wife is happy to (she hate the rattle can fumes even in the garage )
Quote from: Gledison on January 30, 2014, 08:48:38 PM
Quote from: TNblueshawk on January 30, 2014, 07:17:12 PM
This was my text tutorial. I wish I would have gone back and added pics but just never got around to it.
http://byocelectronics.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37541&hilit=envirotex+tutorial
This is the jig thread
http://byocelectronics.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=36406&hilit=envirotex+jig
hey man! good idea with the jig. i have a reason now to buy a new pair of shoes..eheh
look, after reading your tutorial (great btw), im wondering if would not be easier to drill all the holes after the pouring. i could print the same decal with the drill holes points on a transparent slide and adjust on the enclosure... What do you thinkg? or is difficult to drill over the epoxy?
thanks for sharing mate!
I don't have to much experience, but I did learn something from the first box I did. I'm in the process of putting together a Lavache, I drilled the box and painted it, then put a waterslide decal on and finally the Envirotex. I cut the waterslide where the holes in the box were and taped it on the inside, after letting it cure for 4 days I drilled out the Enviro. The bigger holes I was able to use a step bit and it didn't lift the Enviro at all. There was one small hole for the 3mm LED and where I had to use a regular bit and that did lift the Enviro. I think this might be one of the reasons Juan and Cleggy hide the LEDS under the decals, the holes are to small for a step bit. So there doesn't seem to be a problem, just make sure you use the right tool.
In the Envirotex website, there is a "flood coat calculator" : http://eti-usa.com/Calculator.html
Adding the full dimensions of a (e.g) 1590b it gives ca. 22 mL of resin.
Do you guys that coat all enclosure could confirm this?
Thanks
Quote from: billstein on January 30, 2014, 10:15:06 PM
I don't have to much experience, but I did learn something from the first box I did. I'm in the process of putting together a Lavache, I drilled the box and painted it, then put a waterslide decal on and finally the Envirotex. I cut the waterslide where the holes in the box were and taped it on the inside, after letting it cure for 4 days I drilled out the Enviro. The bigger holes I was able to use a step bit and it didn't lift the Enviro at all. There was one small hole for the 3mm LED and where I had to use a regular bit and that did lift the Enviro. I think this might be one of the reasons Juan and Cleggy hide the LEDS under the decals, the holes are to small for a step bit. So there doesn't seem to be a problem, just make sure you use the right tool.
Absolutely right, that's why we started hiding them. You can't reliably use a proper drill bit through Envirotex as it'll always try and lift it by design. A stepper bit is the only way and if it's anything like ours, they start at 4mm. We don't hide 5mm LEDs when we use them, they get popped through with the stepper.
Gledison, you're thinking too hard brother ;) just give it a go. I use throw away shot glasses, I measure using the directions on each bottle as an indicator, they are the same. In the shot glasses I mentioned it is about 10mm in depth, when mixed together, more than enough to coat the top of a pedal. Don't pour it all on, tease it to the edges, if you need more, put a little more on. It makes sense what juansolo said about heating the product, as it has been hot as hell in Aussie lately, and my last 2 pours had hardly any bubbles at all while curing and came out perfect. Good luck mate :)
Quote from: hoodoo on January 31, 2014, 12:31:32 PM
Gledison, you're thinking too hard brother ;) just give it a go. I use throw away shot glasses, I measure using the directions on each bottle as an indicator, they are the same. In the shot glasses I mentioned it is about 10mm in depth, when mixed together, more than enough to coat the top of a pedal. Don't pour it all on, tease it to the edges, if you need more, put a little more on. It makes sense what juansolo said about heating the product, as it has been hot as hell in Aussie lately, and my last 2 pours had hardly any bubbles at all while curing and came out perfect. Good luck mate :)
hehehe, thinking is the only think i still can do properly :P
naaa, i just want to get the right technique before doing. Im still strugling in getting a similar product in germany. there are so many options for 2k epoxy resins that im getting even more confused... :(
Quote from: juansolo on January 31, 2014, 09:47:41 AM
Quote from: billstein on January 30, 2014, 10:15:06 PM
I don't have to much experience, but I did learn something from the first box I did. I'm in the process of putting together a Lavache, I drilled the box and painted it, then put a waterslide decal on and finally the Envirotex. I cut the waterslide where the holes in the box were and taped it on the inside, after letting it cure for 4 days I drilled out the Enviro. The bigger holes I was able to use a step bit and it didn't lift the Enviro at all. There was one small hole for the 3mm LED and where I had to use a regular bit and that did lift the Enviro. I think this might be one of the reasons Juan and Cleggy hide the LEDS under the decals, the holes are to small for a step bit. So there doesn't seem to be a problem, just make sure you use the right tool.
Absolutely right, that's why we started hiding them. You can't reliably use a proper drill bit through Envirotex as it'll always try and lift it by design. A stepper bit is the only way and if it's anything like ours, they start at 4mm. We don't hide 5mm LEDs when we use them, they get popped through with the stepper.
Sorry, guys, dont think i understood properly :P
so, with the 3mm LED hole, shall i leave the decal intact? after pouring the resin, how do you drill than the 3mm with a regular bit?
Cheers
Quote from: juansolo on January 31, 2014, 09:47:41 AM
Absolutely right, that's why we started hiding them. You can't reliably use a proper drill bit through Envirotex as it'll always try and lift it by design. A stepper bit is the only way and if it's anything like ours, they start at 4mm. We don't hide 5mm LEDs when we use them, they get popped through with the stepper.
Would you be able to drill it out from the back of the box? I don't know what you could rest the box on that would not damage the surface (maybe be careful and buff it out?), but if I'm understanding this right, then the bit would be trying to lift the aluminium, and it can do that as much as it likes.
Nope if you go through from the back you have to put pressure on that'd lift it.
We've tried everything and unless your stepper starts at 3mm, you're boned.
We leave the decal intact and pour. Then we do nothing except locat the LED in the hole behind the decal. Usually leaving a little bit of a gap so it doesn't press up against it.
Quote from: juansolo on January 31, 2014, 07:24:34 PM
Nope if you go through from the back you have to put pressure on that'd lift it.
We've tried everything and unless your stepper starts at 3mm, you're boned.
We leave the decal intact and pour. Then we do nothing except locat the LED in the hole behind the decal. Usually leaving a little bit of a gap so it doesn't press up against it.
Do you usually leave a clear spot in your decal where the LED will be, or do you let it shine through the colors of the design?
Quote from: juansolo on January 31, 2014, 07:24:34 PM
Nope if you go through from the back you have to put pressure on that'd lift it.
We've tried everything and unless your stepper starts at 3mm, you're boned.
We leave the decal intact and pour. Then we do nothing except locat the LED in the hole behind the decal. Usually leaving a little bit of a gap so it doesn't press up against it.
Geeeee juansolo!
now i understand what you mean with "hidding the LED" :P
do you have any pic showing how it looks like under the envirotex?
Mate, thanks a lot for your Tutorial. im ordering a local epoxy resin and lets see how will be....
cheers
A stepless bit or reamer will work well for getting the led holes cleared out. Many "T-handle" types go below 3mm.
(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_16077.jpg)
(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_16323.jpg)
Quote from: Gledison on January 31, 2014, 08:55:29 PM
Quote from: juansolo on January 31, 2014, 07:24:34 PM
Nope if you go through from the back you have to put pressure on that'd lift it.
We've tried everything and unless your stepper starts at 3mm, you're boned.
We leave the decal intact and pour. Then we do nothing except locat the LED in the hole behind the decal. Usually leaving a little bit of a gap so it doesn't press up against it.
Geeeee juansolo!
now i understand what you mean with "hidding the LED" :P
do you have any pic showing how it looks like under the envirotex?
Mate, thanks a lot for your Tutorial. im ordering a local epoxy resin and lets see how will be....
cheers
(http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/images/fin-16.jpg)
You can't really see it, but the LED hole isn't cut out. All the others are, then tape is applied to the back of the box so you can fill those holes with Envirotex.
Hidden LEDs are cool. Forgot to mention that we use flat ended LEDs also. We used to sand them down until we realised they existed...
Quote from: Gledison on January 31, 2014, 03:03:35 PM
Quote from: juansolo on January 31, 2014, 09:47:41 AM
Quote from: billstein on January 30, 2014, 10:15:06 PM
I don't have to much experience, but I did learn something from the first box I did. I'm in the process of putting together a Lavache, I drilled the box and painted it, then put a waterslide decal on and finally the Envirotex. I cut the waterslide where the holes in the box were and taped it on the inside, after letting it cure for 4 days I drilled out the Enviro. The bigger holes I was able to use a step bit and it didn't lift the Enviro at all. There was one small hole for the 3mm LED and where I had to use a regular bit and that did lift the Enviro. I think this might be one of the reasons Juan and Cleggy hide the LEDS under the decals, the holes are to small for a step bit. So there doesn't seem to be a problem, just make sure you use the right tool.
Absolutely right, that's why we started hiding them. You can't reliably use a proper drill bit through Envirotex as it'll always try and lift it by design. A stepper bit is the only way and if it's anything like ours, they start at 4mm. We don't hide 5mm LEDs when we use them, they get popped through with the stepper.
Sorry, guys, dont think i understood properly :P
so, with the 3mm LED hole, shall i leave the decal intact? after pouring the resin, how do you drill than the 3mm with a regular bit?
Cheers
I'll be the different one here:
1). For most holes (pots, switches, etc) I drill first. Then I put on the label but don't cut out the holes. The sticker keeps the epoxy from dripping through. After 24 hours, I cut out the holes with an exacto. Pretty easy.
2). For 3mm LEDs, I don't do anything until the box has cured for 48 hours or so. Then I hand drill through the epoxy and the aluminum with a standard 3mm drill bit. Because it is done slowly by hand, it doesn't pull up the epoxy and looks nice and clean. It is slow, so I only do the 3mm hole that way.
Quote from: juansolo on January 31, 2014, 09:17:22 PM
Quote from: Gledison on January 31, 2014, 08:55:29 PM
Quote from: juansolo on January 31, 2014, 07:24:34 PM
Nope if you go through from the back you have to put pressure on that'd lift it.
We've tried everything and unless your stepper starts at 3mm, you're boned.
We leave the decal intact and pour. Then we do nothing except locat the LED in the hole behind the decal. Usually leaving a little bit of a gap so it doesn't press up against it.
Geeeee juansolo!
now i understand what you mean with "hidding the LED" :P
do you have any pic showing how it looks like under the envirotex?
Mate, thanks a lot for your Tutorial. im ordering a local epoxy resin and lets see how will be....
cheers
You can't really see it, but the LED hole isn't cut out. All the others are, then tape is applied to the back of the box so you can fill those holes with Envirotex.
Hidden LEDs are cool. Forgot to mention that we use flat ended LEDs also. We used to sand them down until we realised they existed...
And how do you keep the led in possition? Silicone?
It's usually soldered to an optotron, but otherwise I'll try and secure at least one of the legs to a stomp to anchor it. As a last resort I'll superglue it in place.
Optotron and superglue methods used here:
(http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/images/klonpressor2-i.jpg)
Gled I'm a planner myself so I get it. It only matters on the mixing in that you need to make sure the mix is 50/50 and very important is to mix very well with the double cup method. I use those plastic drink cups, the red and blue ones. The ridges inside the cup allows me to get it perfect. I have not mixed it well enough and you end up with a forever sticky spot(s).
Finally you will mess something up, it will happen. Its called " your" learning curve. In other words you will develop your technique and learn to live with what you like and don't like as you go.
Dive in man and give it a shot. You are as prepared as you can be.
Quote from: Gledison on January 31, 2014, 08:55:29 PM
im ordering a local epoxy resin and lets see how will be....
Please let us know how that works out and also which exact product you used. Pictures or it didn't happen! ;D
Quote from: muddyfox on February 02, 2014, 12:42:10 PM
Quote from: Gledison on January 31, 2014, 08:55:29 PM
im ordering a local epoxy resin and lets see how will be....
Please let us know how that works out and also which exact product you used. Pictures or it didn't happen! ;D
Ive just ordered and soon will try! Will let u know how it goes!
Thanks!
Right now I ordered 'tex from UK and the price was reasonable but if I can buy something locally all the better! ;)
If something is available say in Bauhaus in Germany I can usually find it locally...