Posted this last night on my channel. I find it an interesting topic and am wondering what you guys think.
Do you have a (internal) time limit for how long you will try to fault diagnose a problem effect before you will move on? 6 hours? 2 days?
Whats been your worst build, ever? "the nemensis" build.
The small stones I mentioned in the video was a absolute nightmare....i was pretty inexperienced when I built them. I spent an entire long weekend trying to get them working and cursing in the study at it the whole time. I actually stopped building for about 6 months after building those 2.
stopped for 6 months is what happened to me when I built an mkc from gpcb and couldn't get it going...I tried and tried, desoldered, checked, and triple checked everything but still couldn't get it goin....got pissed off and just stopped....hindsight my cheapie iron was the problem.....every joint was cold.
WOW, you are fast with your hands! ;) More seriously, um, the um's get a bit, um, annoying. Minor quibble.
I've got a icecream container with failed stuff. Currently it's just a tap tempo delay. I mostly do not box before I rock (except for 1590A's and stuff where I'll need to solder wires to the right length), so I've never struck the problem of a boxed pedal that doesn't bloody work. The MN3008 Dirtbag sat in the box of fail for about 6 months (to clear my head, and so I didn't drive a screwdriver through it in frustration.)
Good point overall, though. Learn when to step back and evaluate, unemotionally.
I 'um' less then I used to, but there will always be 'um's' I think that's just how I talk...But they have improved. Watch my etching video. Seriously, even I cant watch that one without getting frustrated with the um's.
I agree, my dirtbag is STILL in the making. It was a nemesis (with v3205's which sounded horrible). I couldn't help but think "all that effort for this...?". But I recently wacked in a couple of mn3008's and now it sounds amazing. It's a really nice delay.
the um's don't bother me Paul....its gives my brain a chance to register what you said before the um :)
Me too :D I try to get my thoughts straight before hitting the record button. presenting really is a skill. I think im improving :o
The retrograde is my nemesis! I built 1 successfully. I have since attempted 2 more. I melted 1 down, sold the other. I think the issues were the diodes. I am prepared to try again! I had a paramix I trashed but unknown why it wasn't working. I have a headphone amp I trashed but I got it working and trashed it trying to get it into a 1590a. I will usually lay it down for a while days weeks months before I pick it back up and try to fix it. I know I will just melt it down if I don't.
Paul, while randomly youtubing one day, i came across your video about etching a circuit board. I've always been a pedal addict, so, I thought that i'd give it a go, which i did and was immediately hooked on this great hobby. The point being, i'm sure there are others that have been drawn to this hobby by your fine videos, so " UM " away mate and keep up the good work. On circuit fails, i've been lucky to some extent, and soldering, early on was usually my nemesis, that caused me to throw away in disgust, several vero builds and a rubadub reverb, along with the brick, as i destroyed the thing in the end :'( So nothing in the box of fail, but more than several in the bin ;)
"We will never give up, never surrender, whatever the cost may be."
Jacob
I'm not the type of guy who will troubleshoot for hours, days.. weeks..
I throw it in the Box O Fail and do another one....
I can usually figure what went wrong pretty fast but I literally had to enlarge my box of fail today. Usually I figure out what I did wrong and slap myself for the dumb mistake. It's a learning process but each one gets easier and faster. It's undeniable the box of fail will get filled up again and I will need to make it larger.
Quote from: rullywowr on February 02, 2014, 02:54:15 AM
I can usually figure what went wrong pretty fast but I literally had to enlarge my box of fail today. Usually I figure out what I did wrong and slap myself for the dumb mistake. It's a learning process but each one gets easier and faster. It's undeniable the box of fail will get filled up again and I will need to make it larger.
Definitely, and less frequent!
I've found and to step away from the build for a while. There have been a few times when I've left it, gone home, had a shit, and had an epiphany just looking at the schematic/layout. Otherwise, it's handy to have a Cleggy, who is a ninja at fault finding. When you've been staring at the circuit so long, a fresh set of eyes is not to be underestimated. We've both seen where we've each had a diode in backwards for example. When it comes to the nitty gritty of tracing and fault finding. With a DMM and audio probe we can usually get a problem narrowed down reasonably quickly.
My own personal nemesis is the Pork Barrel. I've made three of the bastards and not one of them worked first time (for different reasons each time). After two you think it's bad luck, three just let's you know that it's out to get you.
We still do have a box of shame though. It's happily not got very much in there at the moment.
Quote from: juansolo on February 02, 2014, 10:41:51 AM
I've found and to step away from the build for a while. There have been a few times when I've left it, gone home, had a shit, and had an epiphany just looking at the schematic/layout. Otherwise, it's handy to have a Cleggy, who is a ninja at fault finding. When you've been staring at the circuit so long, a fresh set of eyes is not to be underestimated. We've both seen where we've each had a diode in backwards for example. When it comes to the nitty gritty of tracing and fault finding. With a DMM and audio probe we can usually get a problem narrowed down reasonably quickly.
My own personal nemesis is the Pork Barrel. I've made three of the bastards and not one of them worked first time (for different reasons each time). After two you think it's bad luck, three just let's you know that it's out to get you.
We still do have a box of shame though. It's happily not got very much in there at the moment.
You know, if I had a box of....pride...or whatever you would call it, the Pork Barrel would be in it. I had a victorious moment with that build. Finished it off, hooked it up for testing. Was thinking to myself "alright you bastard, show me what I did wrong". Worked first go...I couldn't believe it! its not exactly a simple pedal...I thought I would have ATLEAST ONE solder bridge. :o
For me there is always some issue. "Im a man of constant sorrow, i've seen trouble all my day"
And looking forward for the next trouble!😜
Quote from: jkokura on February 02, 2014, 02:00:36 AM
"We will never give up, never surrender, whatever the cost may be."
Jacob
"By Grabthar's hammer, the box of fail shall be avenged!"
I don't really give up on debugging a build. But, I don't get frustrated doing it either. It's pretty close to the same mindset when debugging a program and I've done years worth of that, so I'm pretty much used to it. I save all my frustration for how awful my paint jobs are on the boxes. I gave up trying to label the knobs and switches after my second attempt because it looked so bad.
The only complete fail I've had is a CE-2. I first did it as an etched board and it was noisy and thunky and I could never figure out why. That's actually the reason I'm here. When I found the Pork Barrel, I ordered it, ripped the BBD of the failed build and built the Pork Barrel and was instantly happy.
I'm close to adding another fail though today. I etched a PNP Fuzz Face with a normal +9V rail as an experiment and the thing motorboats with about 2/3rds of the transistors I put in it and I can't figure out why. I've been fooling with it for two days now and it's getting senseless.
Quote from: RobA on February 02, 2014, 08:31:26 PM
I've been fooling with it for two days now and it's getting senseless.
KILL IT!! :D
one things comes to mind: will it blend? ;D
Quote from: chromesphere on February 02, 2014, 10:16:21 PM
Quote from: RobA on February 02, 2014, 08:31:26 PM
I've been fooling with it for two days now and it's getting senseless.
KILL IT!! :D
Yeah, that would be the smart thing to do.
Quote from: micromegas on February 02, 2014, 10:17:33 PM
one things comes to mind: will it blend? ;D
Only after I take out the transistors, but I don't have one of those industrial strength blenders either.
My personal nemesis has been the Colorsound Overdriver. Tried it 3 times I think, it worked every time but it just won't work well, that's not how it's supposed to sound...once I came close but the tone control wouldn't work no matter what I tried, and it's just a handful of components for crying out loud...
Then, these days I am trying out a DAM Meathead Deluxe, really surprised this doesn't get built more, it's awesome.
Or at least it was uber awesome until yesterday. I was trying some new stuff on the board and suddenly, it has seven times less gain than it had. Tried everything for hours, literally 5 or 6 hours of trying. No change, everything is as it should be, connections, voltages, orientation of the caps, everything. The funny thing is, I love it like it currently is :D It's really low gain but has very nice sustain and polished sound, kinda like Santana, cleans up incredibly. I might box it like this.
That's another thing - sometimes I accept the build for what it came out to be, and just go with it. Hell I played concerts with bastard builds like that...
Interesting thing with the Overdriver, now the Meathead, and the Axis Wah. I hated the sound of all of those builds, never thought they were correctly built and sounded good, and in all of them I used some old Russian PIO caps JUST FOR THE LOOKS OF THEM. Now I am pretty certain that those caps are non-working caps. Damnit.
I have a little "fail bin" but I will probably never resurrect those circuits because I end up picking them over for parts before I get back to them. In that boneyard is a splitter blend and an optical compressor.
Generally, if it doesn't fire up within five minutes of troubleshooting after a build, I put it in the "fix later box" and move onto another circuit. Whether it ever makes it out of the box is a question of complexity. I had a Low Rider that I couldn't get to work for the life of me, bought another board, fired up first time. Hours of non frustration is worth far more than a new board.
Quote from: GermanCdn on February 06, 2014, 06:14:53 PM
Generally, if it doesn't fire up within five minutes of troubleshooting after a build, I put it in the "fix later box" and move onto another circuit.
I usually unplug it and then insert the ICs and or trannies. Usually works after that! :-D
Quote from: GermanCdn on February 06, 2014, 06:14:53 PM
Hours of non frustration is worth far more than a new board.
A man after my own heart! ;D
I only do troubleshooting if it's something that I feel like it might be an easy fix if I could only find the problem. If I have a pedal that "sorta works" or works but sounds nothing like what it should, that one goes in the box of fail and most of those never see the light of day again. I have way too many unpopulated boards to worry about as it is! ::)
Don't talk to me about this.
I desoldered an entire green bean board and repopulated it because it was the first thing I ever built, and i didn't want it to remain a failure.
I don't give up easily! I really hate when things don't work first time. I can spend hours or days trying to find the problem. Most of the time it's just very stupid mistakes. I get a form of masochistic pleasure out of troubleshooting! Fail bin has only one circuit: a Pep Box Rush. It sounded good on breadboard but crap on vero :-\
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2
Quote from: jimilee on February 06, 2014, 06:18:10 PM
Quote from: GermanCdn on February 06, 2014, 06:14:53 PM
Generally, if it doesn't fire up within five minutes of troubleshooting after a build, I put it in the "fix later box" and move onto another circuit.
I usually unplug it and then insert the ICs and or trannies. Usually works after that! :-D
Word
Quote from: billstein on February 06, 2014, 11:50:54 PM
Quote from: jimilee on February 06, 2014, 06:18:10 PM
Quote from: GermanCdn on February 06, 2014, 06:14:53 PM
Generally, if it doesn't fire up within five minutes of troubleshooting after a build, I put it in the "fix later box" and move onto another circuit.
I usually unplug it and then insert the ICs and or trannies. Usually works after that! :-D
Word
Yup - did this on a Klone buffer I popped into my board i/o box. Boxed it up and took it to practice sans ic. Rather than drive 25 min home - I went to Radio Shack up the street and paid $2.50 for a TL082. thank god I socket.
Quote from: Cortexturizer on February 06, 2014, 09:54:31 AMThen, these days I am trying out a DAM Meathead Deluxe, really surprised this doesn't get built more, it's awesome.
I can answer that.
Back in the day there was a big thing with DAM and fans over on their forum going mental about people cloning his pedals and selling them on ebay. Got to add that this wasn't Dave to be fair, just some really overenthusiastic fans. Aaaaanyhow, we found it amusing and all built a shitload of Meatheads just to wind them up. Long story short; everyone built a original one knob Meathead and it was a bit shit in all honesty. So no one really bothered about making the deluxe which adds the control that the Meathead needs to be able to dial it in and sound really good.
Hah, that was an interesting development for sure :)
Yeah I'm diggin' the Deluxe, as I said some gremlins are in it now and it's uber liquid low gain as opposed to how it was but I like it :D Still, remembering how it sounded when it was wild makes me wanna build it again, but then again, I have 3-4 dirts waiting, including the Cherry Bomb on a madbean board and my attempt number 4 on that circuit :)
Pshycopathic Paul?
Thanks for sharing made me giggle mate.