Hey guys, I just finished adding a massive lot of resistors to my store and I started to wonder what you all thought about resistors. This comes up every now and then and I see some people say "use whatever" and others say "strong leads are better". Or more experienced builders actually persuading new builders not to bother with say xicons and just use whatever!? Personally I'm going with 'for' strong leads / robust construction and as such that's the type that I'm selling on the store (the "general use" type on the store). The reasons for me personally to want to spend more on a resistor, is to get these benefits:
- Color code is easier to read
- Colors are easier to differentiate (brown black red for example), with this particular brand.
- Leads are stronger.
Sure, you cut the leads off so who cares? Well a few reasons I like stronger leads are for when I need one offboard (and tag/turret/eyelet board etc), soldering and de-soldering (less gap between the pad and the lead) and breadboarding. Breadboarding with tayda resistors is a lot of fun! Blowtorching my fingernails off is a lot of fun!
So that's my pitch for quality / strong leaded resistors and its probably a minority but hey, that sums up my life.
What's your opinion?
Paul
I like beefy leads. They look and feel like quality for starters. It's probably nit picky but I think there's a bit better mechanical connection when there is more lead diameter to contact through hole plating. I also trust them more for flying leads on LEDs. I love the resistors I get for smallbear. Are those Xicons?
I like xicons, they are a good size. Mine are probably...well, VERY SLIGHTLY thicker then xicons. Anything around that size is good. I had a bag of 100 x 100k xicons in my parts box, the rest where flimsies from tayda. every time I'd get a 10k xicon out I would be like "oh yeah baby!". Sad but true story. So I decided its time to move on from these crappy resistors. A recent agonising breadboard experience with Tayda resistors was the last straw.
I prefer "flimsy" resistors. Robust ones are more work to deal with, plus the one time I did get some (emergency, I-only-need-these to finish one of the early Doppelganger 1.4s), I couldn't get the damn things to sit flat on the board, so they stuck up, slightly, like a 1/4W resistor in a 1/8W footprint.
Plus it's not like you're going to tie a rope to them and attach a tyre at the other end for the kids to swing on.
I too prefer flimsy ones. While snipoffs from the thicker ones do come handy (mostly as jumpers on vero builds), I'm now almost exclusively using fabbed boards so that's a non-issue anymore. For the few veros I build, I can always snip off some 1n4001 leads.
Flimsy ones are a godsend when wiring up the led as you can easily bend it everywhichway, without it pulling on the wire or trying to unglue the led if I'm not using a socket.
I agree about the "oh yeah" sentiment as I have that too, but as soon as I try actually using them I start wishing they weren't all that butch. ::)
Interesting points guys. I've never had an issue fitting a 'robust' 1/4w resistor into a pcb before. I'm sure there are oversized 'robust' 1/4w resistors out there though.
I find stronger resistors easier to use on led's then flimsy. They tend to snap easier, even though you would think it would be the other way around.
The biggest problem with flimsy for me is breadboard. They are useless and don't fit the board sockets tightly.
Quote from: chromesphere on February 27, 2014, 05:14:18 AM
What's your opinion?
Paul
I simply agree with you all the way. I have a bunch of cheap resistors with thin legs for backup and experimenting (good to have for sure when i miss a value, and they definately do the job), but for the final thing i prefer the real thick leg thing. I have no clue what brand i use though, but the ones Banzaimusic carries are good stuff.
Another thing: When i play with the breadboard i do prefer brown 5% resistors, because I find them easier to read (three rings are simpler than four), and readability are of certain importance during experiments :)
Quote from: chromesphere on February 27, 2014, 07:45:51 AM
I find stronger resistors easier to use on led's then flimsy. They tend to snap easier, even though you would think it would be the other way around.
Interesting. I've never ever had a clr resistor break on me. Or any resistor for that matter. I guess that's why I never considered flimsy ones to be a problem at all.
Quote from: chromesphere on February 27, 2014, 07:45:51 AM
The biggest problem with flimsy for me is breadboard. They are useless and don't fit the board sockets tightly.
This one I do agree on. Flimsy ones are impossible to breadboard with. But as I have my plate full with all the fabbed projects floating around here, the good ole breadboard hasn't seen the light of day in years. ::)
I prefer the beefy leads. They bend more precisely, the stay put when bent, and they are generally easier for me to insert in a board because they don't move at all. The flimsy ones work the same electronically, but I find my builds are not nearly as neat because they move around in the through-holes while I'm flipping the board over to solder.
And, usually the thinner leads are attached to cheap resistors, which usually look like crap (finish-wise). Has no effect on sound, of course.
A further concern is that there have been cheap metal film resistors sold that are actually carbon film painted blue with the added color band. Again, not that it makes much difference in sound, but if I want carbon film I'll buy them.
It doesn't make a difference to me at all. I use both, and both work just fine.
What's more important to me is value tolerance and performance. I've never met a Metal Film I didn't like.
Jacob
Yeah , I prefer the beefy resistors as well. The thin lead ones function just fine, but the better ones aren't very expensive so I get those.
To Forrest's point, I have measured some the cheap ones and some clearly aren't within the 1% rating. I have no idea if they are painted carbon films or just out of spec metal films.
Sorry if this is a little OT, but since we are talking about resistors, how do you guys store your resistors? I don't want to dedicate a 100+ small pull shelves for all the values and right now I have them in small, labeled ziplocks that I have to shift through which is a PITA.
Anybody have any great solutions?
I fall firmly into the camp of "It doesn't matter". I use the thinner ones regularly without issue. I measure every single resistor that I put into circuit (and cap above 1 nF, as my DMM has an inherent capacitance of 140 pF which skews all readings less than that), and the largest variance I've ever found was 1.8%, and that wasn't in a batch I bought from Tayda, it was in a batch of 1000 10k resistors I bought for something like $0.004 per resistor. I've only had one bag of resistors test unacceptably out of spec from Tayda, and that was a bunch of carbon film 220k which all tested consistently at 200k, which would lead me to believe they were probably mislabelled at the factory label, as the colour code indicated 220k.
Quote from: peAk on February 27, 2014, 05:19:52 PM
Sorry if this is a little OT, but since we are talking about resistors, how do you guys store your resistors? I don't want to dedicate a 100+ small pull shelves for all the values and right now I have them in small, labeled ziplocks that I have to shift through which is a PITA.
Anybody have any great solutions?
Use envelopes and a box. You can easily organize them this way, and where the baggies are flimsy and will not always stand up to the abuse, using paper envelopes is usually more durable to this sort of use. You can stand them on end, and use a marker to clearly indicate the values inside each envelope.
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on February 27, 2014, 05:39:49 PM
Quote from: peAk on February 27, 2014, 05:19:52 PM
Sorry if this is a little OT, but since we are talking about resistors, how do you guys store your resistors? I don't want to dedicate a 100+ small pull shelves for all the values and right now I have them in small, labeled ziplocks that I have to shift through which is a PITA.
Anybody have any great solutions?
Use envelopes and a box. You can easily organize them this way, and where the baggies are flimsy and will not always stand up to the abuse, using paper envelopes is usually more durable to this sort of use. You can stand them on end, and use a marker to clearly indicate the values inside each envelope.
Jacob
Sounds good. The plastic ziplock is a PITA to pull resistors out of. Maybe the paper envelope will fix this issue.
Thanks
back on topic, I prefer the beefier leads but it's not a big deal either way for me.
I use both but prefer the beefier leads.
Quote from: culturejam on February 27, 2014, 03:38:28 PM
I prefer the beefy leads. They bend more precisely, the stay put when bent, and they are generally easier for me to insert in a board because they don't move at all. The flimsy ones work the same electronically, but I find my builds are not nearly as neat because they move around in the through-holes while I'm flipping the board over to solder.
I've been using the resistors from Tayda because ordering from them is so easy. The frustrating part is they are loose and it is hard to get everything lined up. I've decided not to be so ocd about this but it still bothers me a bit.
It's more than just the diameter of the leads. The Xicon resistors aren't exactly massive. They are pretty wimpy compared to every other brand I have, but they take solder fine, work well, and are within spec. Whatever the resistors I've had from Tayda are, they don't take solder well and they aren't always in spec. I don't trust the composition of the metal in them nor the plating on the leads. Add in the fact that I can't get them to stick in a breadboard, and they are pretty much useless to me. Buying other brands of resistors in quantity brings them near to the same price, so I can't see any reason to buy the resistors from Tayda.
Quote from: jkokura on February 27, 2014, 05:39:49 PMUse envelopes and a box. You can easily organize them this way, and where the baggies are flimsy and will not always stand up to the abuse, using paper envelopes is usually more durable to this sort of use. You can stand them on end, and use a marker to clearly indicate the values inside each envelope.
Jacob
This is
EXACTLY what I've been doing for over a decade! I use a very sturdy shoe box (I'm on my second one, a Converse® :)) ) in which the envelopes fit perfectly: resistors in front (ascending), followed by caps (ceramic and mica, then film, then electros), diodes, LEDs, and transistors. Bagged projects to do bring up the rear, followed by empty envelopes needing refilling/disposing.
Regarding resistor brand selection: does anyone have any experience with the Vishay/Dale 1/4 Watters? I've seen some on Mouser that are cheaper than Xicons, and some that are more expensive... IIRC.
the wimpy leads are pretty terrible for breadboarding use, but otherwise i don't care much if i'm just building for myself.
if someone is buying a pedal from me, i'm using thicker leads though.
There seem to be several different types of the Vishay/Dale resistors at Mouser, but I have some of the CMF55 and they are nice resistors. I haven't seen them cheaper than the Xicons in quantity though. They are a pain in one regard and that's that the value is printed on instead of color coded bands. So, you either have to be very careful about putting them on the board or just not care that you won't be able to read the value after they are on.
Quote from: RobA on February 27, 2014, 08:34:56 PM
or just not care that you won't be able to read the value after they are on.
Or you can bend the leads so the value is facing up. ;)
Quote from: culturejam on February 27, 2014, 08:38:17 PM
Quote from: RobA on February 27, 2014, 08:34:56 PM
or just not care that you won't be able to read the value after they are on.
Or you can bend the leads so the value is facing up. ;)
That's what I meant by being careful when you put them on the board. From the point of view of making sure you are putting the right value in the board at construction, it's actually easier because you just read the value and there's no conversion step.
Quote from: RobA on February 27, 2014, 08:43:05 PM
That's what I meant by being careful when you put them on the board. From the point of view of making sure you are putting the right value in the board at construction, it's actually easier because you just read the value and there's no conversion step.
Ah, I thought you meant that you had to take care to get the right value on the board the first time because the number might not be visible later. My bad. :)
Quote from: culturejam on February 27, 2014, 08:48:12 PM
Quote from: RobA on February 27, 2014, 08:43:05 PM
That's what I meant by being careful when you put them on the board. From the point of view of making sure you are putting the right value in the board at construction, it's actually easier because you just read the value and there's no conversion step.
Ah, I thought you meant that you had to take care to get the right value on the board the first time because the number might not be visible later. My bad. :)
No, my bad really. I wasn't very clear. When I reread what I said, I read it the same way you did.
(that's called an interweb hug-it-out session) #bromance
Jacob
I'm going to switch over to thicker leads (currently have a zillion Tayda resistors). As mentioned they are terrible for bread boarding and I too have snapped a couple when using them for CLRs. It just makes more sense to use a thicker lead to me. That said, I don't think the thin leads are really that bad either and there are some applications where they are better, such as squeezing a 1/4 watt into an 1/8 watt space on a pcb as mentioned earlier. I do like to have the thin lead 1N4001s (Tayda) on hand for 5mm pad spacing. The thicker leads just don't fit well for 5mm spacing and I always cringe when I squeeze them in. (sorry for the derail)
Edit: This is my 1000th post! Hooooray!
Quote from: jkokura on February 27, 2014, 08:53:17 PM
(that's called an interweb hug-it-out session) #bromance
Jacob
Yep. As soon as I opened this thread I could feel the love. It's a beautiful thing.
I like thin leads.
I don't solder one component at a time. I'll have eight or ten resistors in the board before I flip it and solder.
With the thinner leads I can just wisp along soldering each one. I hardly have to hesitate to bring it to temp.
However, I really like the way those little sausage looking resistors...eh, look.
So I might switch to those after I get rid of the gallon of Tayda thin leads I have.
Quote from: billstein on February 27, 2014, 09:06:41 PM
Quote from: jkokura on February 27, 2014, 08:53:17 PM
(that's called an interweb hug-it-out session) #bromance
Jacob
Yep. As soon as I opened this thread I could feel the love. It's a beautiful thing.
Hmmm. (It's really just the tone of the whole forum. Everyone is nice, friendly, and helpful, even when they do really disagree. That's a pretty rare thing on the web.)
Quote from: icecycle66 on February 27, 2014, 09:17:10 PM
However, I really like the way those little sausage looking resistors...eh, look.
What resistors are you refering to?
Quote from: icecycle66 on February 27, 2014, 09:17:10 PM
I like thin leads.
I don't solder one component at a time. I'll have eight or ten resistors in the board before I flip it and solder.
With the thinner leads I can just wisp along soldering each one. I hardly have to hesitate to bring it to temp.
However, I really like the way those little sausage looking resistors...eh, look.
So I might switch to those after I get rid of the gallon of Tayda thin leads I have.
I do the resistor populating the same way. You are right that they come up to temp really fast. The issue I have with them when soldering is that the solder doesn't wick up them as well as other resistors and so the hole doesn't fill as well or as quickly for me. It could just be my technique too. I rejected them pretty quickly and didn't try to develop soldering with them.
Vishay-Dale.
(Unless there are some similar ones for cheaper)
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=13805.msg129733#msg129733
Quote from: peAk on February 27, 2014, 09:21:26 PM
Quote from: icecycle66 on February 27, 2014, 09:17:10 PM
However, I really like the way those little sausage looking resistors...eh, look.
What resistors are you refering to?
Probably the Vishay/Dale type mentioned earlier. They do look like little sausages. And they do look good. They give the board a really clean look, less colorful, more high tech.
Quote from: icecycle66 on February 27, 2014, 09:25:36 PM
Vishay-Dale.
(Unless there are some similar ones for cheaper)
http://www.madbeanpedals.com/forum/index.php?topic=13805.msg129733#msg129733
(We crossed in posting.) They do look nice.
If i'd had flaccid resistors when i first tried breadboarding i would have packed it in then and there... beef it is!
Note for those buying Vishay/Dale: they under spec them. Their 1/8W resistors are the same size as most 1/4W resistors. If you buy a pile of 1/4W from them, they might not fit.
I can't remember if all of their lines are like that, but the ones I've bought in the past definitely are. Checking the datasheet is recommended.
For some reason after reading this thread this morning I was singing this on my way to work:
"I like big leads and I can not lie"
interesting!
I do think I prefer the color band look over the sausage look. I had to eat too many Vienna sausages in a can when I was a kid, nasty stuff and those resistors look too much like them.
that being said, I would love having the value on them over color bands any day!
I've never tried tayda's, but I like the ones I have (no-name from RS components). greenish blue with colour code. Never had any problems with specs or snapping of the legs.
Other question kinda related: Which size of solder pads do you prefer? I really dig the bit bigger ones Brian is using, since they are easy to solder without needing a tiny tip. I have to admit, I was struggling yesterday with culturejam's duovibe, when I had to desolder/resolder the LED, because it was too big with the socket I installed to try different LEDs in case the one I've got doesn't sound good. (this is not a complaint by any means, it's a great circuit, board and design, I just prefer the pads a little bigger!)
Re: Vishay Dale resistors...be aware that many of the 1/4 w ones are oversized also. I have a bunch of really big ones I ordered by mistake that I try to squeeze in when I can. The key is the 55 in the part #, rather than 60 (avoid RN60s!). Check the data sheet. I started using them building hifi gear, as they have a reputation for being very low noise, and they're really rugged. Maybe overkill for pedal use, but they do look cool. I generally figure parts (especially resistors) are cheap, and my time is not.
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Tapatalk
Thanks for that pertinent info.
Quote from: miter53 on February 28, 2014, 02:11:46 AMThe key is the 55 in the part #, rather than 60 (avoid RN60s!).
Thanks for the pertinent info, miter53.
OT,
Man, chromesphere, just connected the dots and realized who you were.
I had watched a ton of your videos before I started posting on here. You have got some great videos!
Just wanted to give you some props.
Thanks Peak! This is my 2nd home :D
Paul