Here's a set of 4 Aion Refractors (klones). These were part of my first batch of Envirotex. Really like how these turned out. I'll be using that finishing technique for the foreseeable future, as it produces great results.
These sound great. I used 1N695's with Fv that measured around .260-.270, matched as close as possible.
(https://v4s2.yimg.com/so/7407/12891660653_9da90b08a4_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathanpayne/12891660653/)
4 Horsemen (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathanpayne/12891660653/) by Jonathan Payne (http://www.flickr.com/people/jonathanpayne/), on Flickr
(https://v4s2.yimg.com/so/7334/12891997454_22827e1af8_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathanpayne/12891997454/)
4 Horsemen (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathanpayne/12891997454/) by Jonathan Payne (http://www.flickr.com/people/jonathanpayne/), on Flickr
(https://v4s2.yimg.com/so/7300/12891574145_1c63da339c_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathanpayne/12891574145/)
4 Horsemen (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathanpayne/12891574145/) by Jonathan Payne (http://www.flickr.com/people/jonathanpayne/), on Flickr
Those look great! Color, knobs, decal, Envirotex it's all working.
These are really fantastic. Great work!
blown away
Nicely executed. Those look great.
Nicely done! Love those earthy colours too.
How are you managing the sides?
dave
Awesome! Great Work!
very handsome lot there
Quote from: davent on March 03, 2014, 12:38:17 AM
Nicely done! Love those earthy colours too.
How are you managing the sides?
dave
Thanks all.
Dave: I'm not letting the ET run down the sides. I'm babysitting it and wiping any runs. I did seven enclosures at once so I get it knocked out. Too much effort for one or two at a time IMHO.
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Those look great. I just finished a Refractor build. It is the best sounding Klone I have built so far. I used Tayda 1N270's and 8N2 for the tone cap in place of 3N9. Getting ready to build a Refractor Afterlife combo.
Yeah I didn't have any 8n2's so I went with 4n7's for tone cap. A little closer anyway.
And to be fair, GrindCustom's Chimaera is the exact same schematic, just without PCB mount pots.
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Looks like you figured out envirotex pretty quickly if that's your first batch. They really came out great.
Those knobs are great. Where did you get them from?
Awesome, nice work!
Simply WOW !!!!..One question though - Why Stereo Jack if no Battery ?
Quote from: marmaliser on March 03, 2014, 12:21:45 PM
Simply WOW !!!!..One question though - Why Stereo Jack if no Battery ?
The short answer is that I had several left over from an order and not enough Mono jacks. Just reordered a bunch of mono's though.
Quote from: billstein on March 03, 2014, 06:00:14 AM
Those knobs are great. Where did you get them from?
Hey Bill, these are from Smallbear: Black Vintage (http://www.smallbearelec.com/servlet/Detail?no=778)
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Man I love those. Fantastic work. You are going to have some thrilled people who take delivery of those beauties :)
Really nice execution, now seeing what you had planned, you definitly choose the right layout for you need ;)
Quote from: Jabulani Jonny on March 03, 2014, 01:40:14 AM
Yeah I didn't have any 8n2's so I went with 4n7's for tone cap. A little closer anyway.
And to be fair, GrindCustom's Chimaera is the exact same schematic, just without PCB mount pots.
Quote from: mjcyates on March 03, 2014, 01:11:28 AM
Those look great. I just finished a Refractor build. It is the best sounding Klone I have built so far. I used Tayda 1N270's and 8N2 for the tone cap in place of 3N9. Getting ready to build a Refractor Afterlife combo.
I don't want to start any war or «cold comments» here.... but that's an aspect about kloning that struck me a nerve....
Everytime i see someone a DIYer or a Commercial Kloner like AF, Stud.. name it! Stating that they have the best sounding klone out there i just get laughing really hard and find it miserable....(sorry)
ALL of the klone layouts are made from the SAME reversed engineered schematic....
The only single thing that can make a difference between two layouts is the tolerance of the component used once piled up and the quality of the components you use.... let say that you use Tayda TL072.. yes they work, but they are B-stock... so slightly off-spec...
I just don't understand why we see that statement pop in DIY environement.. with the amount of these builts that have been posted with time... and people with greater notoriety than me that have commented the same thing that i've just said.
Sorry for this rant, but i thought that the DIY community could be spared of this with time...
Rej
Agreed and amen. Though there are some that are more Klon'ish and not exactly straight replicas of the same schematic, based on my extremely limited knowledge of some of the ones out there.
Quote from: Jabulani Jonny on March 03, 2014, 06:59:53 PM
Agreed and amen. Though there are some that are more Klon'ish and not exactly straight replicas of the same schematic, based on my extremely limited knowledge of some of the ones out there.
True, but those are'nt Klones... they are klonish OD.. like the Kalamazoo, KingSlayer, etc...
But when comparing apples to apples, they're all the same. To me there's nothing more factual than a schematic, there's no «grey zone», just the interaction between physical elements.
Quote from: GrindCustoms on March 03, 2014, 06:39:15 PM
Really nice execution, now seeing what you had planned, you definitly choose the right layout for you need ;)
Quote from: Jabulani Jonny on March 03, 2014, 01:40:14 AM
Yeah I didn't have any 8n2's so I went with 4n7's for tone cap. A little closer anyway.
And to be fair, GrindCustom's Chimaera is the exact same schematic, just without PCB mount pots.
Quote from: mjcyates on March 03, 2014, 01:11:28 AM
Those look great. I just finished a Refractor build. It is the best sounding Klone I have built so far. I used Tayda 1N270's and 8N2 for the tone cap in place of 3N9. Getting ready to build a Refractor Afterlife combo.
I don't want to start any war or «cold comments» here.... but that's an aspect about kloning that struck me a nerve....
Everytime i see someone a DIYer or a Commercial Kloner like AF, Stud.. name it! Stating that they have the best sounding klone out there i just get laughing really hard and find it miserable....(sorry)
ALL of the klone layouts are made from the SAME reversed engineered schematic....
The only single thing that can make a difference between two layouts is the tolerance of the component used once piled up and the quality of the components you use.... let say that you use Tayda TL072.. yes they work, but they are B-stock... so slightly off-spec...
I just don't understand why we see that statement pop in DIY environement.. with the amount of these builts that have been posted with time... and people with greater notoriety than me that have commented the same thing that i've just said.
Sorry for this rant, but i thought that the DIY community could be spared of this with time...
Rej
It's funnier when they compare Klones that are built on the same board. :-)
Board layout can certainly make a difference if it isn't done well, but I suspect that isn't what is going on here. Component choice and tolerances are probably more likely at play. Hell, the original Klons didn't all sound the same, either.
Quote from: GrindCustoms on March 03, 2014, 06:39:15 PM
Quote from: mjcyates on March 03, 2014, 01:11:28 AM
Those look great. I just finished a Refractor build. It is the best sounding Klone I have built so far. I used Tayda 1N270's and 8N2 for the tone cap in place of 3N9. Getting ready to build a Refractor Afterlife combo.
I don't want to start any war or «cold comments» here.... but that's an aspect about kloning that struck me a nerve....
Everytime i see someone a DIYer or a Commercial Kloner like AF, Stud.. name it! Stating that they have the best sounding klone out there i just get laughing really hard and find it miserable....(sorry)
ALL of the klone layouts are made from the SAME reversed engineered schematic....
The only single thing that can make a difference between two layouts is the tolerance of the component used once piled up and the quality of the components you use.... let say that you use Tayda TL072.. yes they work, but they are B-stock... so slightly off-spec...
I just don't understand why we see that statement pop in DIY environement.. with the amount of these builts that have been posted with time... and people with greater notoriety than me that have commented the same thing that i've just said.
Sorry for this rant, but i thought that the DIY community could be spared of this with time...
Rej
Fully agree - but we might have misunderstood Marvin, in that he was just comparing this build against his other Centaur builds, as opposed to saying the Refractor sounds better than other DIY Centaur projects from other people. It could have just been a matter of using different diodes or different types of capacitors (i.e. film instead of ceramic for the weird pF values) or something.
Quote from: aion on March 03, 2014, 10:11:24 PM
Quote from: GrindCustoms on March 03, 2014, 06:39:15 PM
Quote from: mjcyates on March 03, 2014, 01:11:28 AM
Those look great. I just finished a Refractor build. It is the best sounding Klone I have built so far. I used Tayda 1N270's and 8N2 for the tone cap in place of 3N9. Getting ready to build a Refractor Afterlife combo.
I don't want to start any war or «cold comments» here.... but that's an aspect about kloning that struck me a nerve....
Everytime i see someone a DIYer or a Commercial Kloner like AF, Stud.. name it! Stating that they have the best sounding klone out there i just get laughing really hard and find it miserable....(sorry)
ALL of the klone layouts are made from the SAME reversed engineered schematic....
The only single thing that can make a difference between two layouts is the tolerance of the component used once piled up and the quality of the components you use.... let say that you use Tayda TL072.. yes they work, but they are B-stock... so slightly off-spec...
I just don't understand why we see that statement pop in DIY environement.. with the amount of these builts that have been posted with time... and people with greater notoriety than me that have commented the same thing that i've just said.
Sorry for this rant, but i thought that the DIY community could be spared of this with time...
Rej
Fully agree - but we might have misunderstood Marvin, in that he was just comparing this build against his other Centaur builds, as opposed to saying the Refractor sounds better than other DIY Centaur projects from other people. It could have just been a matter of using different diodes or different types of capacitors (i.e. film instead of ceramic for the weird pF values) or something.
Yep, particularly since he referred to using 1n270s and an 8n2 cap for the tone cap (which JuanSolo and Cleggy have talked about for a while now).
QuoteFully agree - but we might have misunderstood Marvin, in that he was just comparing this build against his other Centaur builds, as opposed to saying the Refractor sounds better than other DIY Centaur projects from other people. It could have just been a matter of using different diodes or different types of capacitors (i.e. film instead of ceramic for the weird pF values) or something.
Yes I wasn't intending to say that the Refractor board was in anyway superior to any other Klone board. Just saying that of the ones that I have built (Sunking, Minitaur, Chimaera TB, etc.) for whatever reason, this one was the best sounding of the bunch for me. All obviously very similar but this one is on my board where as all the others were sold. Sorry for stirring up a little bit of a hornets nest. Discussion of this circuit always seems to create controversy.
I actually think it's an interesting discussion. I don't think there is anything wrong with you bringing it up at all.
Those look slick!!
My rant was'nt pointing anyone in particular, all my excuses if it looked like i was adressing this message to Marvin, it's not the case.
If an individual changes some of the values to fine tune the circuit to what he thinks makes it closer to the original, that's part of the interpretation and the individual perception of what he hears. Just like components, we as human also have our tolerance that piles up and gives our opinion about a said subject. None of us hear the same.
These circuits being low voltage, low current, we would need to have an intense awkward layout if based on the same schematic to make a real measurable difference in sound... ...other than the component tolerance piling up.
I probably posted this rant in the wrong forum, this was'nt the place to discuss about that because it could go on and on.
Still is, that i'm curious and that i like to be proven wrong simply because you acquire new knowledge after. Once Brian releases is new Sunking layout, i'm willing to send one of my Chimaera pcb, purchase a Refraktor and SunkingII with 3 complete set of component with all equal measured pots and diodes and send that whole package to someone who has the equipement to compare and measure the 3 layouts.
That way, science will speak by itself.
Rej
Quote from: mjcyates on March 03, 2014, 11:24:02 PM
QuoteFully agree - but we might have misunderstood Marvin, in that he was just comparing this build against his other Centaur builds, as opposed to saying the Refractor sounds better than other DIY Centaur projects from other people. It could have just been a matter of using different diodes or different types of capacitors (i.e. film instead of ceramic for the weird pF values) or something.
Yes I wasn't intending to say that the Refractor board was in anyway superior to any other Klone board. Just saying that of the ones that I have built (Sunking, Minitaur, Chimaera TB, etc.) for whatever reason, this one was the best sounding of the bunch for me. All obviously very similar but this one is on my board where as all the others were sold. Sorry for stirring up a little bit of a hornets nest. Discussion of this circuit always seems to create controversy.
I have'nt perceive anything as an offense, it's simply a subject that i find sketchy and i started to rant about it...
I've built a shitons of klones and yes it have happened to me that i was like..HOLY SHIT!! this one sounds so good, just had a little something more even if built with all the same stuff i've used before, main reason why i'm again bragging about tolerance piling up....
Hope it's all cool.
Rej
Definitely cool! :)
Absolutely cool and a great discussion. BTW, did you guys see those badass overdrives at the start of this thread?! I mean...yeah baby! ;D ;D ::)
Quote from: GrindCustoms on March 03, 2014, 11:47:45 PM
My rant was'nt pointing anyone in particular, all my excuses if it looked like i was adressing this message to Marvin, it's not the case.
If an individual changes some of the values to fine tune the circuit to what he thinks makes it closer to the original, that's part of the interpretation and the individual perception of what he hears. Just like components, we as human also have our tolerance that piles up and gives our opinion about a said subject. None of us hear the same.
These circuits being low voltage, low current, we would need to have an intense awkward layout if based on the same schematic to make a real measurable difference in sound... ...other than the component tolerance piling up.
I probably posted this rant in the wrong forum, this was'nt the place to discuss about that because it could go on and on.
Still is, that i'm curious and that i like to be proven wrong simply because you acquire new knowledge after. Once Brian releases is new Sunking layout, i'm willing to send one of my Chimaera pcb, purchase a Refraktor and SunkingII with 3 complete set of component with all equal measured pots and diodes and send that whole package to someone who has the equipement to compare and measure the 3 layouts.
That way, science will speak by itself.
Rej
If you really want to get funky, every component on each board would be socketed and then you could swap the same parts from one board to another and remove that variable from the equation.
You know, for science.
Quote from: Jabulani Jonny on March 04, 2014, 12:54:44 AM
Absolutely cool and a great discussion. BTW, did you guys see those badass overdrives at the start of this thread?! I mean...yeah baby! ;D ;D ::)
Indeed, beautiful builts, reason why i think i started this discussion in the wrong thread... ::)
Quote from: pickdropper on March 04, 2014, 12:56:32 AM
Quote from: GrindCustoms on March 03, 2014, 11:47:45 PM
My rant was'nt pointing anyone in particular, all my excuses if it looked like i was adressing this message to Marvin, it's not the case.
If an individual changes some of the values to fine tune the circuit to what he thinks makes it closer to the original, that's part of the interpretation and the individual perception of what he hears. Just like components, we as human also have our tolerance that piles up and gives our opinion about a said subject. None of us hear the same.
These circuits being low voltage, low current, we would need to have an intense awkward layout if based on the same schematic to make a real measurable difference in sound... ...other than the component tolerance piling up.
I probably posted this rant in the wrong forum, this was'nt the place to discuss about that because it could go on and on.
Still is, that i'm curious and that i like to be proven wrong simply because you acquire new knowledge after. Once Brian releases is new Sunking layout, i'm willing to send one of my Chimaera pcb, purchase a Refraktor and SunkingII with 3 complete set of component with all equal measured pots and diodes and send that whole package to someone who has the equipement to compare and measure the 3 layouts.
That way, science will speak by itself.
Rej
If you really want to get funky, every component on each board would be socketed and then you could swap the same parts from one board to another and remove that variable from the equation.
You know, for science.
+1
That would indeed be the ultimate. ;D
Quote from: Jabulani Jonny on March 04, 2014, 12:54:44 AM
Absolutely cool and a great discussion. BTW, did you guys see those badass overdrives at the start of this thread?! I mean...yeah baby! ;D ;D ::)
Well played my friend... Well played indeed. :)
Quote from: Jabulani JonnyI'm not letting the ET run down the sides. I'm babysitting it and wiping any runs.
Forgive my ignorance as I have yet to muster the courage to try Envirotex.
So you are in essence only Envirotexing the tops of the enclosures? If so, how are you keeping the edges so neat when you wipe the runs from the sides?
I ask because those look stunning and appear to have Envirotex on the sides as well....
Quote from: hylandren on March 04, 2014, 06:52:26 PM
Quote from: Jabulani JonnyI'm not letting the ET run down the sides. I'm babysitting it and wiping any runs.
Forgive my ignorance as I have yet to muster the courage to try Envirotex.
So you are in essence only Envirotexing the tops of the enclosures? If so, how are you keeping the edges so neat when you wipe the runs from the sides?
I ask because those look stunning and appear to have Envirotex on the sides as well....
I followed Juansolo's great Envirotex tutorial here: http://juansolo.demon.co.uk/stompage/finishing.html
I bought the enclosures from Pedal Parts Plus, applied a waterslide decal, then topped with just enough ET to cover the top. I used a wooden popsicle stick to get it to the edges of the enclosure and cover the decal edge. At that point I took a paper towel with some Goof Off or Oops, some kind of solvent, to continue to wipe around the edges if there were any runs. That's the hard part. You have to babysit those runs for about an hour. Going back and looking at each enclosure and wiping up any runs. After that the ET thickens up enough and doesn't run any more. Then you just set them to the side for 3-4 days while you populate the PCB, etc.
Since I used high gloss enclosures for these builds it really looks like the ET just blends in to the enclosure. I used some anodized enclosures for three previous builds and they looked cool too. Give it a shot. I love how the finish ends up and the tops are just about indestructible.