I got bypass and a normal guitar signal when engaged...what do?
I took some pics, but somehow they came out darker than expected. Should I take new ones, or read voltages first?
Thanks!
Build quality is sloppy...sorry
Edit: Holy shit, that camera brings out the worst in my soldering skills!
Voltages could help. Have you seen the 'rules for debugging' thread?
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on March 31, 2014, 07:08:04 PM
Voltages could help. Have you seen the 'rules for debugging' thread?
Jacob
I have, but it's been a while. Let me check...
Oh, and I wasn't to sure about the orientation about that one IC without the cutout
oh and Q2 needs to be flipped 180°, but the build document says it works either way, so I di not try that yet.
IC1: CA3080
Quote from: fixxe on March 31, 2014, 07:19:01 PM
Oh, and I wasn't to sure about the orientation about that one IC without the cutout
The IC is correct now. If you put it in there backwards the first time, it may be fried.
Quote from: jimilee on March 31, 2014, 08:37:52 PM
Quote from: fixxe on March 31, 2014, 07:19:01 PM
Oh, and I wasn't to sure about the orientation about that one IC without the cutout
The IC is correct now. If you put it in there backwards the first time, it may be fried.
Yes, that's how I put it in the first time
Pin 1 of IC 1 shouldn't have 0 voltage check for bridges and or a bad socket. Also, is there anything between that pot and the pcb?
So NC doesn't mean Not Connected or No Current?
NC would stand for 'Normally Connected'
NO stands for 'Normally Open'
Jacob
In the case of what the OP is asking....
The "NC" on pins 1 and 8 of the CA3080 mean NOT CONNECTED.
NC means Normally Connected when you are referring to SWITCHES.
DOH!
Yes, context is everything, and I didn't double check.
Jacob
So 0 Volts is fine?
Does anyone have the voltages for the transistors?
When you say that you don't have Kwak happening, do you still heard some filtering happening?
In this circuit, the control that affects most of the effect is the Range pot, definitly the one that makes it kwak, if you hear that the signal is getting filtered, that means it's making it's way through.
I would verify if the Range pot is not DOA.
I'll take the voltage of both IC and Trannies in a couple.
Edit: Range pot it is!
Voltages:
DC Jack: 8.64
IC1 CA3080
1: 0
2: 4.57
3: 4.62
4: 0
5: 0.61
6: 8.66
7: 4.57
8: 0
IC2 LM1458
1: 4.3
2: 4.62
3: 4.62
4: 0
5: 4.62
6: 2.03
7: 4.56
8: 8.65
Q1
E: 3.97
B: 4.18
C: 8.61
Q2
E: 0.61
B: 4.43
C: 4.62
Q3
E: 4.64
B: 5.12
C: 8.67
Quote from: GrindCustoms on April 02, 2014, 12:45:34 AM
Voltages:
DC Jack: 8.64
IC1 CA3080
1: 0
2: 4.57
3: 4.62
4: 0
5: 0.61
6: 8.66
7: 4.57
8: 0
IC2 LM1458
1: 4.3
2: 4.62
3: 4.62
4: 0
5: 4.62
6: 2.03
7: 4.56
8: 8.65
Q1
E: 3.97
B: 4.18
C: 8.61
Q2
E: 0.61
B: 4.43
C: 4.62
Q3
E: 4.64
B: 5.12
C: 8.67
Thanks! Greatly appreciated. :)
So on IC1 your 6 is higher but that could be due to the hi/lo position your pedal is in. And my 7 is somehow higher than yours...
And on IC2 your 6 is lower. The transister orientation I don't know, but the voltages seem to be right.
The filter seems to do one sweep when I touch certain areas of the board with my finger. I think it was the ICs and somewhere else. I need to check that again.
Or did you somehow confirm now that my Range pot is broken?
The voltage can indeed vary with the postion of the switch but also with the component in their path and their tolerances, but if your voltage are similar to mine, you should be good.
I will not confirm that your range pot is broken, i don't have your circuit in front of me.
But i would check if he works correctly for sure.
Should't the 7 on your IC1 have 8,6V too? Since it seems to be V+
Is there anything you can see where the fault (IC1 pin 6 and 7, IC2 pin6) could be by a quick overlook at the schematic, I'm not really good at reading those.
Here are the pins of IC2: http://circuits.datasheetdir.com/37/LM1458-pinout.jpg
Anyone?
I forgot to say the hi/lo switch works.
Y'all got sunshine over the weekend or what? ;D
Did you pushed your trouble shooting of this a bit further?
I did'nt really knew what i could do more to help you with it.
Thanks, that's nice to ask of you. I tried a different CA3080 with the same results. I think I'm going to do a thorough audioprobing the next days to see if i get any further.
The hi/lo switch works, but the pots do nothing, maybe that gives you another idea?
Not sure because picture of your pcb top is not clear, but C8 look like you might have installed it the opposite way.
C8 is right.
I did some further probing and I'm getting very quiet crackling on R9. Also R2 is silent, I don't know whats up with that.
When you audio probe, the idea is to follow the audio signal from it's starts until it stops or starts acting weird meaning there's an issue (duh)
R2 is in parrallel with C2 that are connected to VB than to the audio signal, this (someone might correct me if i'm wrong) set the input impedance of the audio signal so it's normal to me that you don't get any audio trace from it.
From my interpretation of the schem you should get audio from both ends of R9, got to mention that i'm still not understanding envellope filters concept that much yet, just tyring to help out using some basic logic.
Some more experienced member might need to chime in at this point, i've pretty much reach the limit of the help i can provide you about this matter. :-\
It's more of a ticking on R9, or I dont know. But it has a certain frequency. I drew the way I probed so far.
Thanks for your input so far :)
You hear audio signal on the pos and neg side of C10? But soon as you probe the signal input side of R9 it does'nt do much?
Have you re-flowed your solder joints? And i'd like to know what you get on both lead of the C10.
I guess i'll find out how this thing works as we «fixxe» this ;)
;D Haha, yes I reflowed them. C10 has signal, and I think the input of R9, as far as I remember. The other side of R9 gives me this ticking/crackling though.
Quote from: fixxe on April 16, 2014, 09:23:56 PM
;D Haha, yes I reflowed them. C10 has signal, and I think the input of R9, as far as I remember. The other side of R9 gives me this ticking/crackling though.
Try another resistor, that is the input to the «control» section of the envellope.
For the sake of science and B-Stock awareness, where do you source your resistors?
This makes sense to me, that this resistor is defective, you have signal going from the input of the pedal to the output..., the hi/lo switch network works, because it's not directly tied to the «control/filter» section.
pulled R9 out, socketed it and put in a 10K since I dont have another 15K...no difference.
funny thing though, pulling out R9 makes no difference in the signal.
so I guess I do further probing then?
R9 is merely a limiting resistor to partially set the threshold of the envelope. The only way it's part of the problem is if it's not actually connected to the op amp. It could be a jumper.
You're going into an inverting op amp stage after that; I think you won't hear audio signal there (someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember that being a thing). You would hear something on pin 1 or on the range pot, though, I think; it should have crossover distortion (it's rectified).
Set your multimeter to 2v. Strum and measure at the attack pot 1. Do you see a voltage change? If not, you need to work backwards. Chances are your op amp is fine, because you have clean signal and half of the op amp is used for that. Check D1 and D2; they create the rectified signal. Make sure they're still working, not shorted, and not facing the wrong way. If you are getting a voltage at the attack pot, then your problem exists after it. Keep following the schematic.
Ah! Good to know about the envellope section, i knew that R9 was just a limiting resistor, but i did'nt knew if audio signal should be expected to be heard.
Like i've said earlier in this thread my knowledge of Filter and envellop followers is limited, simply an effect that i really dig and the Kraken is really a good one.
Thanks for chiming in Jon, i was out of ressources. ;)
Thanks! I got my Multi on 20V and measured 4.8V and a 0.5V change when strumming. So the problem is after that? Where I marked it?
So I got around to probe again. I wrote what I got in the picture. Now I don't know if my diode is gone, or if it's supposed to be this way.
Input appreciated :)
anyone?
You're not going to hear anything on that side of R9. It's the inverting input of the op amp.
Have you gone through with your multimeter on continuity and checked all the connections? Have you measured components? I can't remember, have you changed the IC? Did you verify that your diodes aren't bad and that they're facing the right way?
wtf? now I'm getting 12,9V at my 9V-connection. How can this be???
It's the same power supply and I checked with another one, too.
Now it's even up to 14V. I marked the positions with higher voltage and zero voltage. The rest is around 7V.
Could anyone look this over and see if there's maybe voltage where none should be, or the other way around?
Edit: of course R3 and Out are 0v too
I guess I'll try changing the diodes then
Good news everyone! (insert Farnsworth)
I pulled the diodes -in a barbarian way, leaving a huge mess- put sockets there, put new ones in, and now it's working! Thanks everyone, your help is really appreciated! :)
Awesome! It's a really nice envellope filter, glad that you can enjoy it now :)
Bad parts are the worst, but glad you stuck with it and got it working!
Quote from: midwayfair on May 13, 2014, 02:58:06 AM
Bad parts are the worst, but glad you stuck with it and got it working!
Agreed, biggest bummer for me when trouble shooting is needed.
Thanks Jon for chiming in to help out, at some point i was really above my knowledge of filter effects, learned a bit more ;)
Cheers!
Thanks again guys, you were such great help and really patient with me :-[
This is really a great community!
I guess in the future I start with checking the diodes or even better, order the double amount needed ;D