Hey all
I bought some tagboard a while back but never got round to building anything on it. I'm going to try a simple SHO for my first attempt but have quick question.
On the tagboardeffects layout below the wire in the top right corner of the board goes to lug 1 and 2 of the gain/volume pot. How do I do this? Is it a simple case of connecting the wire to lug 1 then adding a jumper across to lug 2?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/12/qu2ema5y.jpg)
Apologies if I'm being thick I've just not come across this before when building from PCBs.
Thanks
Quote from: Guybrush on May 12, 2014, 01:50:35 PM
Is it a simple case of connecting the wire to lug 1 then adding a jumper across to lug 2?
Right.
One thing to remember when using IVIark's layouts, always orient the transistor as per the pinout indicated, not per the transistor pictorial, as they don't always match (this comment isn't necessarily aimed at the SHO layout you're doing, just in using the layouts in general).
Quote from: GermanCdn on May 12, 2014, 02:37:41 PM
One thing to remember when using IVIark's layouts, always orient the transistor as per the pinout indicated, not per the transistor pictorial, as they don't always match (this comment isn't necessarily aimed at the SHO layout you're doing, just in using the layouts in general).
I've used a few of his layouts and you are totally correct! Also pay attention to the ele caps. they are easy to reverse.
Or, you could just ignore lug 1 and only solder the wire to lug 2. The only reason I've seen for connection lug 1 in a case like this is some sort of backup if the wire to lug 2 fails, but that makes very little sense to me as the pedal still won't really work correctly if lug 2 fails and lug 1 is wired in place.
If I'm looking at the picture right and remembering the SHO the right way around, then the connection to lug 2 (and 1) is a connection straight to ground, so you could just wire lug 2 to ground and not back to the board.
Cheers guys. Really appreciate the advice.
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Just a couple more comments since I didn't see anyone make them. You might know all of this already, but better safe than a couple hours of wasted time and head banging(the wrong kind)
One of the images on Vero/Strip(this isn't tagboard.) layouts needs to be a mirror image, and the other isn't exactly what you're looking at. It's better(IMHO) to assume the components pic is the TOP and know you don't see the copper traces. Mirror image the bottom for your cuts, like so, and your cuts will be in the correct place when looking at the top side of the board:
(http://i.imgur.com/BUw0Uwal.png) (http://imgur.com/BUw0Uwa).
I find a sharp 1/8" drill bit in the hand with a few twists is perfect to break the trace. Just don't drill with it, it's .125" and your holes are only .1" apart. Other folks prefer a hobby knife to cut traces. Regardless, check your cuts with your DMM.
Here's a completed SHO on Vero that is ridiculously close to Mark's layout. (Having noticed that, a comment Mark made to me a couple months back makes complete sense, I owe him an apology.)
Differences are:
1W 100K resistor (1/4W is perfectly fine and was an ordering mistake on my part adds Mojo! )
3K CLR doesn't exist in Mark's layout. ignore that column
I brought the GND for the DC jack right into the board at the top row because it was convenient.
(http://i.imgur.com/S2JCJdwl.jpg) (http://imgur.com/S2JCJdw)
The reason to connect Lugs 1&2 together is engineering insurance. If the wiper(lug2) ever fails, you'll get wide open instead of nothing. Good for volumes.
(There's a cut to isolate the CLR on my pedal that you can't see. If you want the layout I'll happily share)
Thanks for the advice. I luckily figured out just before I started soldering that I had to reverse everything. I unfortunately don't have a 5Kc photo hook up so have had to order one in. I've populated the board and this is what it looks like. Can anyone confirm that it looks correct or spot any glaring errors?
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/14/6ybe6u5a.jpg)
Thanks
Looks good Sir!
Dont be shy, flip that bad boy over and post it too. That's where 90% of vero errors show up. Tiny bridge, bad cut etc.
Best practice:
After soldering Vero, take a hobby knife and run it through the tracks between copper strips.
Also you've picked the perfect starter for Vero. It's simple and easy and the flipping issue is easy to work around. Could you have imagined on the MXR Noise Gate or a BMP...
Again, Great Job!
Quote from: Clayford on May 14, 2014, 11:13:52 AM
Best practice:
After soldering Vero, take a hobby knife and run it through the tracks between copper strips.
Yes! Knife those gaps!
That's like 90% of all errors solved right there. Even if you can't see the solderbridges, it's amazing how little stray solder it takes...
Quote from: muddyfox on May 14, 2014, 12:00:49 PM
Quote from: Clayford on May 14, 2014, 11:13:52 AM
Best practice:
After soldering Vero, take a hobby knife and run it through the tracks between copper strips.
Yes! Knife those gaps!
That's like 90% of all errors solved right there. Even if you can't see the solderbridges, it's amazing how little stray solder it takes...
I swear vero + flux = superconductor material
To add to the tips and suggestions, here are mine.
-As stressed before KNIFE THOSE GAPS. I run my iron tip along the gap first then a knife.
-Save the leads you cut off. I use them as jumpers instead of wire. Wire is bulky and will not fit under an IC socket and can jam up your board if there are a lot of them.
-I solder the first resistor and then make all my cuts. Its a lot of counting and flipping but it works for me. I tried the mirror method but I ended up making a ton of mistakes.
Great job on the board! Looks good to me, and like Clayford said flip er over and take a "classy" pic of er. A functioning vero is a sexy thing!
Quote from: flanagan0718 on May 14, 2014, 12:39:43 PM
To add to the tips and suggestions, here are mine.
-As stressed before KNIFE THOSE GAPS. I run my iron tip along the gap first then a knife.
-Save the leads you cut off. I use them as jumpers instead of wire. Wire is bulky and will not fit under an IC socket and can jam up your board if there are a lot of them.
-I solder the first resistor and then make all my cuts. Its a lot of counting and flipping but it works for me. I tried the mirror method but I ended up making a ton of mistakes.
Great job on the board! Looks good to me, and like Clayford said flip er over and take a "classy" pic of er. A functioning vero is a sexy thing!
Good call on the snipped-off leads. I have a matchbox ful of diode and elcap leads...
I use flimsy Tayda resistors so those are crap. ::)
Good thread
I have been wanting to try this and have been putting it off. There is already a lot of great advice in this thread.
+1 for the pic of the other side.
Just dive right in there... vero is very rewarding because things get done right away. No etching, fabhouses, drilling, fr4 dust... yes, pot wiring can get messy but that's also a good way to practice your lead dress skillz.
I'm all about smd these days because I find it fun but some of my vero builds were much more satisfying.
I'm a little anal but I flip the strip side image in Photoshop and print it. I then label columns (A-whatever) and my rows (1-whatever). You could even then label your stripboard the same with a marker before making you cuts. I struggle with a little dyslexia and this gives me confidence when there is a lot of cuts.
Thanks for all the good advice! Really appreciated.
Unfortunately it's not working properly. I've connected the pot and hooked it up to my test rig and I'm getting a horrible mosquito like whine along with the guitar signal that increases in volume as I turn the knob. I've run a craft knife between the gaps and checked for unwanted solder joins with my DMM and everything seems fine? Does anyone have any ideas what the issue might be?
Here are a few more photos that might help:
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/2yve4a7y.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/qy2amubu.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/ava9umu7.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/15/rypanete.jpg)
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Looks like your cuts are in the wrong places to me. You should have marked them out on the non copper side as they appear in the layout diagram, and you've marked them on the copper side. Have a look at the components that they are located under and you'll see what i mean. Just reconnect those traces and cut the holes in the correct spots and see how you go, good luck, Matt.
Thank you but I've tripple checked the cuts and I'm certain they are right.
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They would be right if the picture was indicating the copper side, it is not. You need to mark these cuts from the non copper, component side of the vero, then turn the board over and cut the traces where these are. Go to tag board effects and read their tutorial. Mark the holes with a marker, drill a hole slightly larger than the hole that's already there, and then you will see on the copper side which one to cut. Or, I have been doing it all wrong. ;)
I believe that he realized his mistake and mirrored the entire circuit, holes and all.
Quote from: muddyfox on May 15, 2014, 09:02:20 AM
I believe that he realized his mistake and mirrored the entire circuit, holes and all.
This is correct.
Before I started making holes or soldering I realised that I had to mirror the circuit.
In the photo of the underside of the board the transistor and pot 3 connection are on the bottom right corner.
I'm sure the holes are in the right place :-/
I'd try two obvious things first:
- try a different transistor - easy since you socketed
- reflow all solder - maybe there's a bad joint someplace
So looking at you're board vs the layout the cuts are in the correct places. I would try reversing that BS170. This is one of the layouts where IvIark had the diagram correctly labeled. I would also run the tip of your iron between the 9v and ground traces. It looks like you might have a bridge there. I would also swap out that ceramic cap for a Film (not that it makes a difference but just personal preference). When you were cutting for unwanted bridges it looks like you went a little onto the copper traces. This is why I use the iron tip instead. Its a "just in case" factor, that way I don't damage any ground runs. Hope this helps.
-Mike-
OK thanks. I have already tried a different transistor and inserted it both ways around but it didn't help.
I've tested between the ground and 9vt joints with my DMM and there's definitely no connection.
I'll reflow the joints and run my iron down the gaps. I didn't not have a film cap to replace the ceramic one with but I'll get some ordered.
Thanks!
Edit: Just to clarify, I am getting audio signal with the effect engaged but is accompanied by a high pitch whine.
As I am getting audio surely this rules out shorts to ground as these cause the effect to produce no signal or buzz (in my experience).
Could it be something to do with my components? I've checked they are all the right values but my electro caps have different voltage tolerances they are:
10uf - 35v
47uf - 50v
Any good tagboard tutorial links?
I want to give this a shot.
Quote from: Guybrush on May 15, 2014, 01:40:42 PM
OK thanks. I have already tried a different transistor and inserted it both ways around but it didn't help.
I've tested between the ground and 9vt joints with my DMM and there's definitely no connection.
I'll reflow the joints and run my iron down the gaps. I didn't not have a film cap to replace the ceramic one with but I'll get some ordered.
Thanks!
Edit: Just to clarify, I am getting audio signal with the effect engaged but is accompanied by a high pitch whine.
As I am getting audio surely this rules out shorts to ground as these cause the effect to produce no signal or buzz (in my experience).
Could it be something to do with my components? I've checked they are all the right values but my electro caps have different voltage tolerances they are:
10uf - 35v
47uf - 50v
The film cap isn't too important. and the ele's are fine. I would start with the audio probe now and see if you can pin point it.
Quote from: peAk on May 15, 2014, 01:55:39 PM
Any good tagboard tutorial links?
I want to give this a shot.
This site is VERY helpful!
http://www.sabrotone.com/?page_id=386 (http://www.sabrotone.com/?page_id=386)
(((Dumb question alert)))
So this type of tagboard/vero doesn't require etching, correct?
This was why have have strayed away from vero so far because I don't have a laser jet printer for etching.
If I am understanding correctly, this just requires jumpers and drilling/cutting out traces?
That's right. You have copper traces already isolated from each other and it's predrilled for you to use as you see fit.
Deleted.
Double post (phone issues sorry)
Deleted.
Double post (phone issues sorry)
Quote from: flanagan0718 on May 15, 2014, 02:00:28 PM
The film cap isn't too important. and the ele's are fine. I would start with the audio probe now and see if you can pin point it.
Great suggestion. Thanks.
I should have thought of this myself. Though a schematic would be useful for audio probing I guess.
Quote from: peAk on May 15, 2014, 03:05:53 PM
(((Dumb question alert)))
So this type of tagboard/vero doesn't require etching, correct?
This was why have have strayed away from vero so far because I don't have a laser jet printer for etching.
If I am understanding correctly, this just requires jumpers and drilling/cutting out traces?
Correct! There is no etching. There is a way to etch with an inkjet. see link below
http://www.instructables.com/id/Creating-Printed-Circuit-Boards-with-a-INKJET-Prin/#step0 (http://www.instructables.com/id/Creating-Printed-Circuit-Boards-with-a-INKJET-Prin/#step0)
thanks guys!!!
Sorry Guybrush, wasn't trying to hijack your thread. This thread has inspired me!
I for one am looking forward to all the vero builds you folks are gonna churn out. Having done a lot of stuff on vero, I kinda have a soft spot for it :-)
sent from my mobile device
Quote from: muddyfox on May 15, 2014, 05:39:15 PM
I for one am looking forward to all the vero builds you folks are gonna churn out. Having done a lot of stuff on vero, I kinda have a soft spot for it :-)
sent from my mobile device
Like wise! I've had success with choruses, delays, boosts, and power bricks. Fabbed boards are great but I defiantly enjoy a vero challenge every once and a while!
I am a novice who is itching to try vero, but haven't yet only because I've told myself that I first have to build the kits I already have!
;D
Some time back, I asked Guitarmageddon about vero tutorials and he sent me the link below.
Given that I would be starting from square 1, I found this to be one of the easiest understand:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/DRAGONFLY-LAYOUTS_0/TUTORIALS/album21/ (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/DRAGONFLY-LAYOUTS_0/TUTORIALS/album21/)
So I've reflowed all the joints l, checked for bridges, checked with my audio probe and replaced a few components and I'm still getting the whine.
I don't know if it helps shed any light on the problem but when I remove the transistor the whine remains
Grrr....
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Quote from: Guybrush on May 15, 2014, 03:57:36 PM
Though a schematic would be useful for audio probing I guess.
Lookey here, found it on Harald's site...
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nisD2D4jty0/TxYIGOX8uhI/AAAAAAAAAmg/vWZAejdlwnQ/s1600/zvex_super_hard_on_briggs.jpg)
Thank you Muddyfox but I've just fixed it.
The electros were in back to front.
I assumed the blue dots on the electros on the layout represented the negative leg but it appears not!
Thanks everyone for their help and advice. I'll definitely be building more vero now that I've cut me teeth! :)
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Quote from: Guybrush on May 15, 2014, 07:26:58 PM
The electros were in back to front.
I assumed the blue dots on the electros on the layout represented the negative leg but it appears not!
Whaaa? That makes no sense. You've oriented them properly in the pictures. Say that power filtering 47u, the line (neg) to gnd, other side to 9V. You've turned it around and now the line is on the 9V rail? :o
Quote from: muddyfox on May 15, 2014, 07:38:55 PM
Quote from: Guybrush on May 15, 2014, 07:26:58 PM
The electros were in back to front.
I assumed the blue dots on the electros on the layout represented the negative leg but it appears not!
Whaaa? That makes no sense. You've oriented them properly in the pictures. Say that power filtering 47u, the line (neg) to gnd, other side to 9V. You've turned it around and now the line is on the 9V rail? :o
I'm confused too...but hey, if its working :o
The negative leg of the 47uf cap is now in line with the 9vt wire.
The negative lead of the 10uf cap is now in line with the 5k1 resistor.
No idea if this is "correct" but it works.
I found the fix in the tagboard effects page for the circuit. Someone else had the same problem as me and fixed it by rotating the electros.
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Quote from: Guybrush on May 15, 2014, 08:08:49 PM
The negative leg of the 47uf cap is now in line with the 9vt wire.
The negative lead of the 10uf cap is now in line with the 5k1 resistor.
No idea if this is "correct" but it works.
I found the fix in the tagboard effects page for the circuit. Someone else had the same problem as me and fixed it by rotating the electros.
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Completely backwards.... Makes no sense. Did you accidentally swap your power and ground wires on the DC jack or something? Because you are correct the light colored area is the ground indicator just like your electros...
Or are your electros marked backwards for some reason??!?
(http://i.imgur.com/EAeHe0Rl.png) (http://imgur.com/EAeHe0R)
The circuit is still hooked up to my test rig which I've used loads of times before so I'm pretty sure the DC jack is wired correctly.
The electros came from 2 different sources and I've used both values before so I can't say that they are a faulty batch.
Bizarre.
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