madbeanpedals::forum

Projects => General Questions => Topic started by: PhiloB on May 22, 2014, 03:36:45 PM

Title: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: PhiloB on May 22, 2014, 03:36:45 PM
Great advice, really great advice BUT....
How do you deal with pots and toggle switches.  I've been leaving my leads long with the intention of clipping them shorting when populating the box. But this becomes cumbersome on larger projects.
My question is how do you handle this aspect of rockin before boxin?  I have a 6 knob/1 toggle and don't really want to desolder over 20 joints and resolder when populating the box.  Is there a good way around this?
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: jkokura on May 22, 2014, 03:43:08 PM
Rock before box is usually just a phrase we use to test a circuit before wiring up the switching and jack system. In other words, you should test the circuit separate from the switching and i/o to make sure that if it doesn't work, it's easier to track down the issue. If it works before adding the switching, then if there's a problem after with the switching involved, you know the problem is with the switching.

Jacob
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: GermanCdn on May 22, 2014, 03:49:36 PM
I leave the power, in, out, and ground wires long to trim to suit in the box, everything else I wire up as if I were boxing it, whether that be using board mount pots or off board wiring.  If it's off board, I generally make my wire runs a little longer anyway, as you can hide them under the board in the end.  Make a mark on the top of each shaft of each pot so I know where the relative levels are at, then I hook it up to my 1590A RIBYBI rig and try it out.

To preface this, I only use the RIBYBI rig to do two things before I bother to drill an enclosure.

1) Confirm the circuits works (duh)
2) A "go or no go" on whether or not I like the circuit enough to actually like it enough to box up.  If I don't, I generally put it in the "Not boxed yet" box, which is actually larger than my BOF, because some times I come back to them later.

You don't want to resolder 20 joints on pots/toggles if you don't have to.  It's a great way to make a circuit that worked on the test rig not work in the box, as you've overheated a joint/melted a switch/inadvertently caused a short.  I have successfully screwed up two Stage Frights in succession this way.  But I will overcome.
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: PhiloB on May 22, 2014, 03:51:05 PM
Guess I wasn't clear.  I am only attaching the toggle switches, not the foot switches.  For instance, the vintage/modern voicing toggle for the 'Upper decker'. 
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: PhiloB on May 22, 2014, 03:53:37 PM
Thanks GermanCdn.  Guess I need to take more time to measure out the anticipated length.
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: bcalla on May 22, 2014, 03:56:11 PM
I'm with Philo on this one.  When I attach pots & switches to RIBYBI, I invariably have the leads too long, or worse, too short when I go to box it.  I am always impressed with build reports where the wires are all just the perfect length.  I can achieve this (sort of) on a simple build, but I'm not even close with the more complex builds.
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: GermanCdn on May 22, 2014, 04:03:25 PM
You don't need to get too specific with your lengths.  Wire is cheap.  I always install my lead wires in four inch lengths (I don't build 1590A effects), gives me lots of lead to strip and will reach point to point in any typical enclosure.  Two inches of twisted three conductor (see Jacobs cordless drill technique video for this) will generally suit just about any layout for pots without too much extra spaghetti, usually I give it a little more for toggles as you sometimes need to pop them out past the edge of the board to fit.  Zip ties (and possibly the adhesive zip tie mounts if you get really creative) will enable you to clean up any slack in the wires when you box up.  Or build a wiring tempate out of 1/4" pressboard and wire the whole thing to length at the beginning.  You can reuse the template for similar effects down the road.

To your second comment - are you trying to determine which setting you like better, and eliminate the toggle?  If so, just solder in some cutoff resistor legs into the board (leave them long so you can easily remove them later), then join them with alligator clips in place of the switch to try out the sounds.  Once you've decided on which one you want, desolder the resistor legs, jumper the toggle holes to suit, and you are good to go without using or damaging a switch.
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: PhiloB on May 22, 2014, 04:06:31 PM
It'd be nice if there were a way to temporarily but reliably connect leads to the pots/switches.
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: PhiloB on May 22, 2014, 04:08:43 PM
Not trying to determine which I like better.  Just trying to make sure it works properly.
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: GermanCdn on May 22, 2014, 04:10:58 PM
Quote from: PhiloB on May 22, 2014, 04:06:31 PM
It'd be nice if there were a way to temporarily but reliably connect leads to the pots/switches.

http://www.taydaelectronics.com/connectors-sockets/terminal-blocks/pcb-mount/dg301-screw-terminal-block-3-positions-5mm.html

Same principal as the Liberator wiring harness from SD, costs $0.15 per pot, allows you to switch out pot values without desoldering the board.
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: davent on May 22, 2014, 06:28:20 PM
i assemble all the bits except jacks on a jig that matches the enclosure layout then just need to hook up the power and the in/out to 'rock it'.

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_5142_zpsc55acc53.jpg)

Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: rullywowr on May 22, 2014, 08:00:08 PM

Quote from: davent on May 22, 2014, 06:28:20 PM
i assemble all the bits except jacks on a jig that matches the enclosure layout then just need to hook up the power and the in/out to 'rock it'.

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_5142_zpsc55acc53.jpg)

This is exactly what I like to do. In lieu of that, get a nice desoldering gun/station then you can detach wires/pots with the quickness.

Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: selfdestroyer on May 23, 2014, 04:48:20 PM
I too test everything before I box it up.. I don't even work on an enclosure (drilling, painting etc) until I have a tested and working circuit. I always use a little more wire than needed and just trim as needed.

I use the Engineer SS-02 Solder Sucker I got from Adafruit and simply love it. Because the tip is silicon based it gets a good suction and I have not had any problems with single sided and double sided boards as of yet. I mainly remove pots and wires the most and it has worked out great.

(http://music.codydeschenes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/20140301-144545.jpg)

Cody
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: rullywowr on May 23, 2014, 06:01:56 PM
Quote from: selfdestroyer on May 23, 2014, 04:48:20 PM
I too test everything before I box it up.. I don't even work on an enclosure (drilling, painting etc) until I have a tested and working circuit. I always use a little more wire than needed and just trim as needed.

I use the Engineer SS-02 Solder Sucker I got from Adafruit and simply love it. Because the tip is silicon based it gets a good suction and I have not had any problems with single sided and double sided boards as of yet. I mainly remove pots and wires the most and it has worked out great.

(http://music.codydeschenes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/20140301-144545.jpg)

Cody

Wow Cody..that is the most bad-ass manual solder sucker I have ever seen.  Really trick dude!  I think I now have to get one to use as a backup/portable sucker.
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: davent on May 23, 2014, 06:08:20 PM
The spring is so powerful it almost explodes right out of your hand, also they're really small so takes some getting use to, how to best hold and manipulate it.
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: selfdestroyer on May 23, 2014, 06:39:14 PM
I noticed it does fill up a bit quick but with the sucking power, its worth it. I have been through a couple solder suckers and this one has really stood out and I would definitely buy another if needed.

Cody
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: rullywowr on May 23, 2014, 06:42:42 PM
It's small?  Looks so big in the pics.  I got one in the cart now.
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: muddyfox on May 23, 2014, 06:45:19 PM
Looks pretty tiny to me..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keQBjmE4fKg

Cody, how long does one silicone tube last? Should I get replacement ones immediately?
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: davent on May 23, 2014, 06:48:20 PM
Yes, they work great, it's just that if i grab it in my fist like i would with the big-old-worked-poorly sucker i had, it's dissappears, basically all i see is the tip, where'd the button go? I must handle in a much daintier fashion to ensure i can access the release button, i will adjust my technique, i'm just too big.

Highly recommended tool, well made/designed quality stuff is such a pleasure to use!
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: davent on May 23, 2014, 06:58:39 PM
Hot off the press.

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_6327_zps668d9186.jpg)
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_6328_zps61f93919.jpg)

The silicone on mine looks the very same as the day i received it.
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: muddyfox on May 23, 2014, 06:59:41 PM
I've been eyeing it for a year or two now, time to finally pull the trigger.

As soon as my credit card cycle runs out, that is...  ;D
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: alanp on May 23, 2014, 07:35:17 PM
These days I use a combination of desoldering braid, a cheap Dick Smith solder sucker, and when those fail, bad language.

Quite often I have better luck with big, complex effects than small simple ones. (There's a PLL sitting in the Pile O' Shame proving otherwise atm tho.)
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: mmlee on May 23, 2014, 07:51:09 PM
I mentioned it on Cody's blog when I noticed he had the same solder sucker. At the time I also ordered the 'engineer' branded side cutters and needle nose pliers.  I've been using the 3 items for the past 3 months and cannot fault the quality of them! Slightly OT but thought I'd mention it.....

Edit: fault with the side cutters, they cut so well the cut off leads fly off across the room, only to be seen again when I pull them out of my feet.
Title: Re: 'Rock it before you box it!'
Post by: davent on May 23, 2014, 08:02:48 PM
Quote from: alanp on May 23, 2014, 07:35:17 PM
(There's a PLL sitting in the Pile O' Shame proving otherwise atm tho.)

There's two PLL's pcb's under my hand (bottom left corner) in the sucker pictures.

Quote from: davent on May 23, 2014, 06:58:39 PM

(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/davent/IMG_6328_zps61f93919.jpg)



Alanp have you seen this PLL corrections thread, the red board has a bunch the blue board requiires swapping two pot leads.

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=106314.0