madbeanpedals::forum

Projects => General Questions => Topic started by: memor82 on May 25, 2014, 04:28:38 PM

Title: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 25, 2014, 04:28:38 PM
Hi,
I'm going to build the Pork Barrel and i see that I make a wrong purchase.
Now I have a MN3007 and a MN3102  :'(
The questions are:
could I use the MN3102 with the MN3007 (instead of a MN3101)?
What will be the right position of the jumpers?
And what about the diode D4?

Thank You
Andrea :)
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 26, 2014, 09:16:00 PM
Anyone? :)
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 26, 2014, 09:52:20 PM
You can use the 3102 as long as you don't intend to run above 9V.

Jumper as per the MN3007 and Omit D4.
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 26, 2014, 10:41:03 PM
Thank you so much Scruffie!
I feed my pedalboard with a Trex chamaleon
but it is set on 9v..so It should work
Ok for Jumper and diode
I'll make a try

Thank you
Andrea
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Kipper4 on May 27, 2014, 10:15:41 PM
I'd still check the 9v output with a dmm to be sure.
I'm not aware of the trex is it a regulated supply?
If you want I'll send you a 3101 I have a few spares.
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 27, 2014, 10:37:15 PM
Quote from: Kipper4 on May 27, 2014, 10:15:41 PM
I'd still check the 9v output with a dmm to be sure.
I'm not aware of the trex is it a regulated supply?
If you want I'll send you a 3101 I have a few spares.
Without checking the datasheet from memory I think it's 10V Max & 11V Terminal so there's some leeway.
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 27, 2014, 10:41:44 PM
Hi everybody.
I follow the Scruffie's instruction.
But the pedal doesn't work.
During the test I used a Danelectro acdc adaptor (9.6Volts).
So the pedal works in truebypass
The signal also passes trough the circuit
but there's no effect ( only a lower  and clean signal).

I apply the mod for the blinkin' led (and the led is blinking!)
Moreover the MN3102 becomes hot!!

When I change the regolations of the pots
they change the speed of the blinking but, like I said, no effect

Thank you Kipper4 but i live in Italy  :)
(Oh..and, obviously, sorry for my english) ;)
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 27, 2014, 10:51:32 PM
Huh, let me check again, the 3102 should be okay there same as it is with the aquaboy deluxe...
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 27, 2014, 11:01:05 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on May 27, 2014, 10:51:32 PM
Huh, let me check again, the 3102 should be okay there same as it is with the aquaboy deluxe...

ok thank you!
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 27, 2014, 11:01:56 PM
Bean tested the 3102 with the 300X BBDs and I can't see any difference in how the pork barrel & aquaboy dx power the clocks.

What voltages do you get on it? Also, where did you actually get the chips?
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 27, 2014, 11:19:45 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on May 27, 2014, 11:01:56 PM
Bean tested the 3102 with the 300X BBDs and I can't see any difference in how the pork barrel & aquaboy dx power the clocks.

What voltages do you get on it? Also, where did you actually get the chips?
I get the chips on musikding.de
Sorry but I'm a newbie
I've only a multimeter.
Whick pins I've to verify?
thank you
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 27, 2014, 11:23:55 PM
I'll assume they're legitimate then.

No need to apologize :)

Right, black lead to ground, probe the red lead to pins 1 - 8 of the MN3102 on the 20V setting of your meter.
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: madbean on May 27, 2014, 11:31:03 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on May 26, 2014, 09:52:20 PM
You can use the 3102 as long as you don't intend to run above 9V.

Jumper as per the MN3007 and Omit D4.

Hmmm. I remember that I used a v3102 with a v3207. I don't know if I tested an MN3102 with an Mn3007 but it has also been two or three years. I think probably not. I'll have to review the datasheets/docs to see what I did.

If all else fails, we can get you an MN3101 one way or another. But, I'd like to solve this too, if possible.
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 27, 2014, 11:34:18 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on May 27, 2014, 11:23:55 PM
I'll assume they're legitimate then.

No need to apologize :)

Right, black lead to ground, probe the red lead to pins 1 - 8 of the MN3102 on the 20V setting of your meter.
Ok the voltages are :
1=9,54
2=4,62
3=0
4=4,67
5=8,9
6=2,38
7=9,06
8=0,35

There's an oscillation of values on pin 2 and 7
(i checked with the "circle sign" of the opamp in upper position :))
Thank you
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 27, 2014, 11:41:42 PM
Quote from: madbean on May 27, 2014, 11:31:03 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on May 26, 2014, 09:52:20 PM
You can use the 3102 as long as you don't intend to run above 9V.

Jumper as per the MN3007 and Omit D4.

Hmmm. I remember that I used a v3102 with a v3207. I don't know if I tested an MN3102 with an Mn3007 but it has also been two or three years. I think probably not. I'll have to review the datasheets/docs to see what I did.

If all else fails, we can get you an MN3101 one way or another. But, I'd like to solve this too, if possible.
Very kind of you  :)
Thanks
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 27, 2014, 11:54:15 PM
I just found an error >:(
I put a 47k in R38 instead of a 4,7k.
Tomorrow i'll modify and I will check.
Now it's time to sleep here in Italy ;D

I will keep you updated ;)
Thanks for your support!
Andrea
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 27, 2014, 11:54:29 PM
Quote from: madbean on May 27, 2014, 11:31:03 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on May 26, 2014, 09:52:20 PM
You can use the 3102 as long as you don't intend to run above 9V.

Jumper as per the MN3007 and Omit D4.

Hmmm. I remember that I used a v3102 with a v3207. I don't know if I tested an MN3102 with an Mn3007 but it has also been two or three years. I think probably not. I'll have to review the datasheets/docs to see what I did.

If all else fails, we can get you an MN3101 one way or another. But, I'd like to solve this too, if possible.
It shouldn't make any difference between the 3005/8 and the 3007 though...

Quote from: memor82 on May 27, 2014, 11:34:18 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on May 27, 2014, 11:23:55 PM
I'll assume they're legitimate then.

No need to apologize :)

Right, black lead to ground, probe the red lead to pins 1 - 8 of the MN3102 on the 20V setting of your meter.
Ok the voltages are :
1=9,54
2=4,62
3=0
4=4,67
5=8,9
6=2,38
7=9,06
8=0,35

There's an oscillation of values on pin 2 and 7
(i checked with the "circle sign" of the opamp in upper position :))
Thank you
Hmm, I'm not certain using the 3102 for the clock is the issue, pin 5, 6 & 7 are incorrect and they're hooked to the LFO yet 2 & 4 appear okay (clock voltage).

Yet you say the 3102 is getting hot... assuming you used a socket, try lifting lifting pin 8 for a start and see if there's any change, then post voltages for Q4 & 5 please

EDIT:
Quote from: memor82 on May 27, 2014, 11:54:15 PM
I just found an error >:(
I put a 47k in R38 instead of a 4,7k.
Tomorrow i'll modify and I will check.
Now it's time to sleep here in Italy ;D

I will keep you updated ;)
Thanks for your support!
Andrea

Just saw this, this would explain the issues on Pins 5,6 & 7 I should think :)
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 28, 2014, 12:18:39 PM
Hi!
Like I said I notice an error in R38
and I replaced withe the right resistor (4,7k).
I also found another error in R14 (10k->100k)..also replaced
(ok I'm a newbie..but non so newbie!..maybe I was drunk :o)

So now..the blinkin' light has more "power"..more light
and when I touch the trimmer I found a position (about half way)
where starts an "Heartbeat" (synchronously with the light)
but nothing about the chorus sound   :'(
Also the MN3102 now it's cold
(when I'll come back from work I'll take the voltages
of the opamp)


Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 28, 2014, 12:40:39 PM
Take voltages of the entire pedal (all the ICs & Transistors) it's easier than doing it in snap shots to debug.
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 28, 2014, 01:06:15 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on May 28, 2014, 12:40:39 PM
Take voltages of the entire pedal (all the ICs & Transistors) it's easier than doing it in snap shots to debug.
Ok!
For the transistor how can i take voltages?
Black -> ground
red -> every pin of the transistor
Is this correct?
Thank you
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 28, 2014, 01:09:49 PM
Quote from: memor82 on May 28, 2014, 01:06:15 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on May 28, 2014, 12:40:39 PM
Take voltages of the entire pedal (all the ICs & Transistors) it's easier than doing it in snap shots to debug.
Ok!
For the transistor how can i take voltages?
Black -> ground
red -> every pin of the transistor
Is this correct?
Thank you
Yes that is correct :)
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 28, 2014, 05:21:45 PM
Just finished the test:

IC1= 4.7 4.7 4.7 0 9.6 4.7 4.7 4.7
IC2= 4.7 7.7 (3.8/5.7) 0 9.6 (3.8/5.7) 4.5 4.7
IC3= 9.3 4.2 0 4.3 8.7 3 8.6 (0.5/0.7)
IC4= 9.4 4.3 4 8.8 6.9 0 4.3 0

Q1 (CBE)= 9.62 3.11 3.89
Q2 (CBE)= 9.62 4.13 4.09
Q3 (CBE)= 9.63 3.35 3.92
Q4 (CBE)= (3.98/6.35) (0.48/0.59) 0
Q5 (CBE)= 9.4 (3.1/4.4) (3.4/4.9)

THANK YOU GUYS!
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 28, 2014, 05:57:05 PM
Could you please re do your IC3 & 4 readings listed like this;

(http://www.remotefactory.com/images/8-pin-dip.png)

1)
2)
3)
etc.

Just makes them a bit clearer and I think you might have written them in the wrong order there :)
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 28, 2014, 06:34:25 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on May 28, 2014, 05:57:05 PM
Could you please re do your IC3 & 4 readings listed like this;

(http://www.remotefactory.com/images/8-pin-dip.png)

1)
2)
3)
etc.

Just makes them a bit clearer and I think you might have written them in the wrong order there :)

Ok..but I don't understand: the value that I posted (in ic3 and ic4) are an average because
there's a continuous oscillation on each pin of the ics except for the third pin of IC3(zero) and the eighth pin of IC4 (zero).
I re-done the test:

ic3:
1) 9.3
2) 4.2
3) 0
4) 4.3
5) 8.7
6) 3
7) 8.6
8) 0.5

ic4:
1) 9.4
2) 4.3
3) 4
4) 8.8
5) 6.9
6) 6.9 (this was previously wrong ..)
7) 4.3
8) 0
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 28, 2014, 06:58:57 PM
This is the pcb:

(http://i62.tinypic.com/2s97iwk.jpg)
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 28, 2014, 11:21:32 PM
I think you might have written your voltages down wrong again, IC4 makes sense if you have the voltages written as 1,2,3,4,8,7,6,5.

But did you do the same on IC3?

If so, lift out pin 8 and connect pin 4 of IC4 to pin 5 and see if that works.
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 29, 2014, 05:38:41 AM
Ops..you're right :-) i reversed the second quartet off all ic!
:-)
I'm sorry  :(
I write the right scheme:

ic1:
1) 4.7
2) 4.7
3) 4.7
4) 0
5) 4.7
6) 4.7
7) 4.7
8) 9.6

ic2:
1) 4.7
2) 7.7
3) 3.8/5.7
4) 0
5) 4.7
6) 4.5
7) 3.8/5.7
8) 9.6

ic3:
1) 9.3
2) 4.2
3) 0
4) 4.3
5) 0.5
6) 8.6
7) 3
8) 8.7

ic4:
1) 9.4
2) 4.3
3) 4
4) 8.8
5) 0
6) 4.3
7) 6.9
8) 6.9

I hope to be luckier this time  ::) ;)
In this case, what can I do?
Thank you very much





Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 29, 2014, 11:31:04 AM
As I said, lift pin 8 of IC3 and connect pin 4 & 5 of IC4 together with a jumper and see if that works.
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 29, 2014, 11:49:37 AM
Ah ok!
This evening i'll try.thank you Scruffie!

Inviato dal mio Galaxy Nexus utilizzando Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 29, 2014, 05:15:59 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on May 29, 2014, 11:31:04 AM
As I said, lift pin 8 of IC3 and connect pin 4 & 5 of IC4 together with a jumper and see if that works.
Ok just made this mod.
It works!!  :D :D
Now there is the Chorus effect !
But the signal ,when I activate it,
loses MANY db and the sound become dark..
What can cause this?
Thanks!
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 29, 2014, 05:26:45 PM
Glad it worked :) makes me wonder how the Aquapuss DX works with that set up though...

A dark sound and signal loss suggests an incorrect cap or resistor value in the audio path so check R1-27 and C1-17 (excluding C12).
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 29, 2014, 05:30:33 PM
Spotted it in your photo, for C4 you have 100nF instead of 100pF :) that'd do it.
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 29, 2014, 05:31:04 PM
Ok! But so this is an adaptation? There are differences between  mn3102 and mn3101?
Can I keep the pedal with this ic or it would be better purchase the 3101?
I'll check all cap cause the resistors are right, already verified

Inviato dal mio Galaxy Nexus utilizzando Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 29, 2014, 05:32:13 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on May 29, 2014, 05:30:33 PM
Spotted it in your photo, for C4 you have 100nF instead of 100pF :) that'd do it.
Oooook!
Thanks! late I'll change the cap!
Many thanks man!


Inviato dal mio Galaxy Nexus utilizzando Tapatalk

Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: Scruffie on May 29, 2014, 05:36:43 PM
Quote from: memor82 on May 29, 2014, 05:31:04 PM
Ok! But so this is an adaptation? There are differences between  mn3102 and mn3101?
Can I keep the pedal with this ic or it would be better purchase the 3101?
I'll check all cap cause the resistors are right, already verified

Inviato dal mio Galaxy Nexus utilizzando Tapatalk


It is an adaption yes but it's not that big of one, it shouldn't change things too much, a lot of choruses tie pins 4 & 5 on the 3007 together for ease, ideally Pin 4 should be 14/15th the supply voltage for slightly improved operation where as here it's not.

Sooo, if you're happy with it when it's done, don't worry about it, if you want to try a 3101 as standard you can but I doubt you'll notice much difference.
Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 29, 2014, 05:47:31 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on May 29, 2014, 05:36:43 PM
Quote from: memor82 on May 29, 2014, 05:31:04 PM
Ok! But so this is an adaptation? There are differences between  mn3102 and mn3101?
Can I keep the pedal with this ic or it would be better purchase the 3101?
I'll check all cap cause the resistors are right, already verified

Inviato dal mio Galaxy Nexus utilizzando Tapatalk


It is an adaption yes but it's not that big of one, it shouldn't change things too much, a lot of choruses tie pins 4 & 5 on the 3007 together for ease, ideally Pin 4 should be 14/15th the supply voltage for slightly improved operation where as here it's not.

Sooo, if you're happy with it when it's done, don't worry about it, if you want to try a 3101 as standard you can but I doubt you'll notice much difference.
AAAAlllright man!
received loud and clear
You have been very helpful..and gentle.
This is my secont  project
(previously retrograde..but allready have the chunk and yellow shark pcbs!)
I'll surely check in the future again here..maybe for a compressor..(any suggestions  ;) )
byeee




Title: Re: Pork Barrel: MN3007 & MN3102
Post by: memor82 on May 30, 2014, 04:48:51 PM
Hi!
I replaced C4 and now It's seems all ok!  :)
Thank you so much..
I'll post a shot when I'll finish the enclosure ;)

bye bye