It probably goes without saying that the MN3005 is the BBD delay chip to have in one's analog delay. Too bad you will probably find gold at the end of a rainbow together with mystical unicorns first before getting some affordable and reliable MN3005's. That leaves only the V3205. Which brings me to the question, how does it compare to the MN3005? Oddly enough Madbean's own build guides seem to differ. The Aquaboy guide seems to scoff at the V3205, calling it the worst of the bunch and seems to prefer the shorter delay timed B3208 instead. The old Dirtbag build guide on the other hand seems to say that the difference is negligible.
So how does the V3205 compare to the MN3005? Is it a difference worth spending 10x as much for, or is it like the original WH-1 whammy and the WH-4 re-issue, which I found to be perfectly fine to the original, as I own both of them. If you had to put an honest percentage on them, how much would the V3205 get me to the tone of the MN3005?
*Waits for flood of hate against the v3205*
The v3205 is okay, a lot of people swear against them with a passion, some find them fine though, they do the same job but don't have the headroom basically, the only way to know if you'll like them is to try.
A thing to consider is the designs were not intended for the 3205 BBDs and while we can drop them in, this is not at all optimal, but it's nice to have the option.
Now the designs can be tweaked to suit them better but that requires work no one has put in yet, I have but the dirtbag PCB is not the platform for it.
Be careful where you get your v3205 from though, smallbear had to send a batch they received back as they wouldn't bias correctly so distorted too early (this may explain some of the hate as some of those chips had gone out and other suppliers may not be as fussy over their quality).
I built a Dirtbag with v3205's and it's true that they don't sound 'pristine'. But analogue delays are not supposed to sound pristine anyway! For that you get a digital one. Having said that, you can definitely hear slight distortion which is not evident when using an MN3005.
I actually don't mind it as my v3205's don't distort as much as other people have said. Feeding a distorted/fuzz/overdrive signal masks the noise anyway. I can see some people getting really annoyed with this but I'm not too bothered as I don't like my guitar signal to be too clean.
MN3005's are now really expensive. I got a quote recently for £39.99 each. That's not including VAT or delivery! Like it's been said before there are some incredible PT2399 delays out there. I use the Multiplex Echo Machine and it's fantastic. So is the Zero Point from Madbean and many others.
Keeping in mind that I can't get any bucket brigade device to function on a PCB (but they work just fine on the breadboard!):
Personally, I'd sooner use a PT2399 design for anything that required two delay chips. The fidelity is not appreciably different.
Second, my favorite analog delay, the Malekko 616, uses the cool audio chips, and I haven't removed it from my gigging board since I got it regardless of what I build. I like it better than the deluxe memory man I used to have. So obviously the cool audio chips are capable of sounding really good even at 600ms.
Guys, I just spent $100 on here yesterday for (2) MN3005
Lets get some positive MN3005 posts going too, please :o
I was going to build my aquaboy deluxe with MN3008s but I told myself if I could find some 3005s I would build it with that.
Quote from: midwayfair on June 13, 2014, 02:42:49 PM
Keeping in mind that I can't get any bucket brigade device to function on a PCB (but they work just fine on the breadboard!):
Personally, I'd sooner use a PT2399 design for anything that required two delay chips. The fidelity is not appreciably different.
Second, my favorite analog delay, the Malekko 616, uses the cool audio chips, and I haven't removed it from my gigging board since I got it regardless of what I build. I like it better than the deluxe memory man I used to have. So obviously the cool audio chips are capable of sounding really good even at 600ms.
I too prefer the PT2399 for longer delay times. Although I regret selling one of my two MN3005s, I don't regret taking it out of my aquaboy and sticking with 300ms like the original design. The MN3005 at 300ms or less in the aquaboy sounds sweet; perfect for slapback delay. I've yet to build a V3205 so I can't comment there but I will probably build one just so I can see for myself if it is all hype (I run my Aquaboy at 9V anyway since I didn't notice an appreciable difference at 15V)...
I don't know if someone mentioned this, but the real comparison isn't really MN3005 and V3205, because one is a clone of a MN3205, which is different. I think you can still find MN3205 chips, but like the 3005s, they're rare and expensive.
Jacob
I agree with Scruffie that a lot of the sound is in the ear of the beholder. If you're chasing a certain sound though, I haven't found a V3205 project yet that delivers what I consider to be a good analog delay sound.
I have a BYOC Beta version analog delay kit, a production version, I have had my hands on a few more of those to help the builders get them working, and I built a 1st version Dirtbag Deluxe with V3205s and all the mods. None of them sounded particularly close to what I remember my old analog delays sounding like (granted, I comparing real time sounds to my hazy memory ???).
Actually though, I think the current version BYOC analog delay sounds perfectly fine in short mode, where only one V3205 is used. But I don't care for the sound of 4 of them in series in long mode, and didn't like 2 of them in series in the Dirtbag. They certainly have the warmth, but just don't have the fidelity that the old pedals did. Also, I had a 1st version aquaboy with a MN3005 (that one that was nearly a straight pcb clone of the aquapuss) and it kicked the crap out of the BYOC in short mode (nearly identical circuits). So, it seemed to me that one V3205 sounds pretty good, but still not as good as it could be.
I finally bit the bullet and got a hold of a couple 3005s for my dirtbag deluxe; and there's that glorious sound I remember so fondly! To me, it sounds just barely incrementally better than my favorite PT2399 delay, which cost about half the cash to build. Very happy camper now, but I think I've learned my lesson with analog delays at this point.
So anyway, I think that if you're chasing a certain sound, say the sound of an old Deluxe Memory Man, I don't think that using V3205s really gets you there. But still, if you really want that sound, like Madbean alludes to in the Dirtbag build docs, you might spend around $150 on a dirtbag build with MN3005s, but that is still half the cash of a good vintage unit, and the build will be way smaller and work off a normal 9v tap. That's still a really good deal.
Also, like Scruffie said, there are plenty of guys who perfectly enjoy the sound of the V3205 chips. I moderate the delay & modulation subforums over at BYOC and builders express how much they love that analog delay all the time. So, it really does depend on what you're looking for. :D
Quote from: midwayfair on June 13, 2014, 02:42:49 PM
Second, my favorite analog delay, the Malekko 616, uses the cool audio chips, and I haven't removed it from my gigging board since I got it regardless of what I build. I like it better than the deluxe memory man I used to have.
I had a 616 as well. I actually did not care for the sound of it, and far prefer my DMM. But it could have been a wonky batch of chips in the 616. I also used to have the Malekko E300, and it sounded stellar.
I have build two aquaboy deluxes with the cool audio chips and I think they sound great at lower volumes, but I prefer my byoc analog delay in a band setting. The byoc analog delay I have has different chips. I'm not sure what they are, but they're not v3205s, maybe b3208s. That's my main delay now because it's super long and I like the slapback and long sounds. I also have a yamaha e1010 analog delay with 4 MN3005s. The delay is much less dirty than my other analog delays and the delay time isn't very long. I might harvest some MN3005s out of there and try a diy delay with the MN3005s.
Quote from: muehring on June 13, 2014, 06:05:57 PM
I have build two aquaboy deluxes with the cool audio chips and I think they sound great at lower volumes, but I prefer my byoc analog delay in a band setting. The byoc analog delay I have has different chips. I'm not sure what they are, but they're not v3205s, maybe b3208s. That's my main delay now because it's super long and I like the slapback and long sounds. I also have a yamaha e1010 analog delay with 4 MN3005s. The delay is much less dirty than my other analog delays and the delay time isn't very long. I might harvest some MN3005s out of there and try a diy delay with the MN3005s.
The Yamaha unit is probably using the 3005s for the actual spec'd max delay time of 204.8mS then rather than the 300 we try and pull out of them if it's quite clean and has quite a short delay.
Depending on if the filtering can take it, might be fun to rather than harvest the 3005s out of it just extend the max delay by adjusting the clock so you can have 1.2s delays out of it.
Some of what's said here seems to suggest that v3205s just don't stack well, when they first came out, people commented that the output of them was much hotter than that of MN3205s, so I wonder if just reducing the source follower/output pull up resistors on them might help in the dual delay builds as it would reduce each chips gain.
Quote from: Scruffie on June 13, 2014, 01:17:34 PM
A thing to consider is the designs were not intended for the 3205 BBDs and while we can drop them in, this is not at all optimal, but it's nice to have the option.
Now the designs can be tweaked to suit them better but that requires work no one has put in yet, I have but the dirtbag PCB is not the platform for it.
If you did do a delay PCB specifically designed for the v3205d, I'd buy it :)
To the OP -- my experience was that the v3205d began to distort (quite badly) after only halfway on the Level knob on the Dirtbag. MN3008 (half the time of MN3005), OTOH, was pristine even when Level was maxed out.
Quote from: alanp on June 13, 2014, 06:54:05 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on June 13, 2014, 01:17:34 PM
A thing to consider is the designs were not intended for the 3205 BBDs and while we can drop them in, this is not at all optimal, but it's nice to have the option.
Now the designs can be tweaked to suit them better but that requires work no one has put in yet, I have but the dirtbag PCB is not the platform for it.
If you did do a delay PCB specifically designed for the v3205d, I'd buy it :)
I think it'd be hard to change peoples minds and get them on board with it, otherwise i'd do it.
Quote from: Scruffie on June 15, 2014, 02:56:34 AM
Quote from: alanp on June 13, 2014, 06:54:05 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on June 13, 2014, 01:17:34 PM
A thing to consider is the designs were not intended for the 3205 BBDs and while we can drop them in, this is not at all optimal, but it's nice to have the option.
Now the designs can be tweaked to suit them better but that requires work no one has put in yet, I have but the dirtbag PCB is not the platform for it.
If you did do a delay PCB specifically designed for the v3205d, I'd buy it :)
I think it'd be hard to change peoples minds and get them on board with it, otherwise i'd do it.
I dunno - given how hard it is to find MN3005s or MN3205s, I could see something like this being fairly popular.
What would people want? Just an upgraded DM-2 alike (with dual BBDs) then or... what? Adding extra circuitry to a Memory Man would be a challenge to have it fit a 1590BB still... although with SIP OpAmps perhaps a possibility. Or just an entirely 'new' delay circuit.
The Stereo memory man gets overlooked a lot... that could be a good one to spice up.
I would be in on assisting the design and testing of a V3205-based delay! ;)
I have 4 of them here that are collecting dust and are begging to be used!!!
Quote from: Muadzin on June 13, 2014, 01:05:38 PM
The Aquaboy guide seems to scoff at the V3205, calling it the worst of the bunch and seems to prefer the shorter delay timed B3208 instead. The old Dirtbag build guide on the other hand seems to say that the difference is negligible.
Yeah, I kinda did a 180 there. Mostly because the more time I spent working through v3205 vs MN3005 on the DB and other delays I found more consistent problems with the v3205. It's passable, but not preferable. It works, and it's analog, and it is okay to use if you are willing to accept its limitations. But, it's just not an MN3005, esp. one @ 15v. Plus, with many, many hours of tweaking I have never been able to fix the odd decay the v3205 seems to have. I've been through the compander portion many times with almost every imaginable tweak and the v3205 just does not decay naturally. More to the point: even my Memory Boy from EHX gates through the compressor portion at very tiny volumes and that uses BL3208.
Anyway, the most significant change on the DB2014 is the addition of some hefty series resistors at the inputs of the two v3205 chips just before the biasing circuitry (these will be jumpered when using MN3005). The added noise of series resistance seems to cancel out some of the crap the v3205 spits out so the end result is better than before. But, I will put the same caveat on the DB2014 as the ABDLX: use MN if you got em. If you don't, do not expect a 100% representation of the classic DMM sound (but, at least a decent approximation of it).
I have been very tempted to go the opposite way and just design the next DB to be the real deal: MN3005 run at positive ground off a 24v supply. But, I don't think too many people would be happy with that decision. Maybe I could do a small run of those at some point, though. I did one of these for myself a few years ago and it is pretty awesome sounding.
What might be sensible is a limiter at the input, if the signal can't even get over 25mV then the BBDs wont distort, especially with a compander lending a hand too, setting the compander alone too heavy on the compression would cause issues.
A mash up of the Stereo Memory Man (as mono) & Deluxe could be fun and could slightly strip the design down, probably saving a dual opamp in the audio path, omitting the overload LED and associated circuitry (does anyone actually find that useful?) and the level pot... I'd guess that it'd only get a max of 500mS delay rather than 550mS with stripped back filtering but still that's pretty good.
As the bias on the MN/V/BL32XX series is nowhere near as stable with changing voltage as the MN30XX series I would add a charge pump and regulator on board just for a solid 9V as otherwise changing between supplies can cause mis-biasing, otherwise it'd have to run on 12V DC which might be annoying for some... it's a slight over-design but it beats a zener.
Quote from: madbean on June 15, 2014, 05:14:35 PM
Quote from: Muadzin on June 13, 2014, 01:05:38 PM
The Aquaboy guide seems to scoff at the V3205, calling it the worst of the bunch and seems to prefer the shorter delay timed B3208 instead. The old Dirtbag build guide on the other hand seems to say that the difference is negligible.
I have been very tempted to go the opposite way and just design the next DB to be the real deal: MN3005 run at positive ground off a 24v supply. But, I don't think too many people would be happy with that decision. Maybe I could do a small run of those at some point, though. I did one of these for myself a few years ago and it is pretty awesome sounding.
I'd be in to that, the positive supply bit isn't so bad as you can set a charge pump up to make -18V from 9V.
Perhaps to make it a bit more appealing you could offer 2 x 3008 daughter boards to compliment it?
It maybe does 1 year now that i've been seriously bitten by the BBD bug... and try to try as much stuff that i can with them.
I recently got a Ibanez AD9 that uses a MN3205 and it sounds ridiculously good, the «character» of the repeats is something to look for, probably the highest fidelity repeat that i've heard yet. With that said, the V3205 is a direct replacement for it's MN counterpart. Jer (the3secondrule) have swapped the MN3205 of his for a V3205 and digged it. I'm waiting on some of those to come in to also make the experiment.
So what i'm thinking here, the AD9 is at is source tweaked for those BBD opposite to the Dirtbag or Aquaboy...... where am i going with all this!?!
Couple V3205 are on their way to me, when time comes i'll make a daughter board for 2x V3205 and give them a try in the AD9 if working as good in «single» mode. Will then be able to know if they can stack well.
On the other hand i own that AquaPuss clone that Morgan had built on the early DIYSB AP3 boards, i've recently swapped the MN3005 in it for a MN3008...
With no surprise the available length of delay is shorter but no matter how i've tried to tune that circuit with the MN3005 i've never been able to get clean repeats like i do with the MN3008.... this thing now sound super clear and i've had the time to understand the biasing/clock and what not of MN's enough with the ABDX i did wich sound really damn good too....
The MN3008 just shines in the AquaPuss, being a short delay/slapback echo, the use of a shorter delay BBD in these just made sense to me, it stills run away into oscillation when not playing... like it should.
Good food for thoughts in this thread.
Rej
The MN3008 has a higher Vrms, better S/N & THD than the 3005 so that's no surprise that it's cleaner, it is a 'better' chip spec wise.
I'll be interested to hear how the AD9 gets on with the stacked v3205, if I did do this v3205 design though I wouldn't base it around the AD9 topology, which is very similar to a DM-2 (in fact you can just about build one on the Aquapuss board) as it can be improved further.
Quote from: Scruffie on June 15, 2014, 06:46:30 PM
The MN3008 has a higher Vrms, better S/N & THD than the 3005 so that's no surprise that it's cleaner, it is a 'better' chip spec wise.
I'll be interested to hear how the AD9 gets on with the stacked v3205, if I did do this v3205 design though I wouldn't base it around the AD9 topology, which is very similar to a DM-2 (in fact you can just about build one on the Aquapuss board) as it can be improved further.
I'll post the results/soundclips when i'm done with in that NPD thread.
Out of curiosity, wich delay circuit would be more appropriate to use the V3205?
Quote from: GrindCustoms on June 15, 2014, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on June 15, 2014, 06:46:30 PM
The MN3008 has a higher Vrms, better S/N & THD than the 3005 so that's no surprise that it's cleaner, it is a 'better' chip spec wise.
I'll be interested to hear how the AD9 gets on with the stacked v3205, if I did do this v3205 design though I wouldn't base it around the AD9 topology, which is very similar to a DM-2 (in fact you can just about build one on the Aquapuss board) as it can be improved further.
I'll post the results/soundclips when i'm done with in that NPD thread.
Out of curiosity, wich delay circuit would be more appropriate to use the V3205?
That's a matter of opinion but i'm not a fan of the 3rd order sallen-key topology and has been discussed the chips do not seem to stack well, also relying on the compander to compress the signal down to manageable levels for the BBD leads to issues and adding series resistance to the BBDs isn't exactly the best way to deal with clipping either.
I have a feeling some of the unnatural decay of the v3205 mentioned can be reduced by simply improving the pre smoothing/anti-aliasing filtering.
All speculation but some places to start.
Quote from: Scruffie on June 15, 2014, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: GrindCustoms on June 15, 2014, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on June 15, 2014, 06:46:30 PM
The MN3008 has a higher Vrms, better S/N & THD than the 3005 so that's no surprise that it's cleaner, it is a 'better' chip spec wise.
I'll be interested to hear how the AD9 gets on with the stacked v3205, if I did do this v3205 design though I wouldn't base it around the AD9 topology, which is very similar to a DM-2 (in fact you can just about build one on the Aquapuss board) as it can be improved further.
I'll post the results/soundclips when i'm done with in that NPD thread.
Out of curiosity, wich delay circuit would be more appropriate to use the V3205?
That's a matter of opinion but i'm not a fan of the 3rd order sallen-key topology and has been discussed the chips do not seem to stack well, also relying on the compander to compress the signal down to manageable levels for the BBD leads to issues and adding series resistance to the BBDs isn't exactly the best way to deal with clipping either.
I have a feeling some of the unnatural decay of the v3205 mentioned can be reduced by simply improving the pre smoothing/anti-aliasing filtering.
All speculation but some places to start.
So in other words, a new design! ;D
Quote from: Scruffie on June 15, 2014, 05:19:23 PM
What might be sensible is a limiter at the input, if the signal can't even get over 25mV then the BBDs wont distort, especially with a compander lending a hand too, setting the compander alone too heavy on the compression would cause issues.
Clever! Twin diodes to ground might do the trick here. I will check that out on my build. It might be preferable to a large series resistance.
I was coming here to suggest some type of passive limiting on the input of the BBDs to keep the input below the headroom limits of the V3205. Looks like I had the right idea. :D
Quote from: GrindCustoms on June 15, 2014, 09:11:42 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on June 15, 2014, 08:08:57 PM
Quote from: GrindCustoms on June 15, 2014, 07:12:22 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on June 15, 2014, 06:46:30 PM
The MN3008 has a higher Vrms, better S/N & THD than the 3005 so that's no surprise that it's cleaner, it is a 'better' chip spec wise.
I'll be interested to hear how the AD9 gets on with the stacked v3205, if I did do this v3205 design though I wouldn't base it around the AD9 topology, which is very similar to a DM-2 (in fact you can just about build one on the Aquapuss board) as it can be improved further.
I'll post the results/soundclips when i'm done with in that NPD thread.
Out of curiosity, wich delay circuit would be more appropriate to use the V3205?
That's a matter of opinion but i'm not a fan of the 3rd order sallen-key topology and has been discussed the chips do not seem to stack well, also relying on the compander to compress the signal down to manageable levels for the BBD leads to issues and adding series resistance to the BBDs isn't exactly the best way to deal with clipping either.
I have a feeling some of the unnatural decay of the v3205 mentioned can be reduced by simply improving the pre smoothing/anti-aliasing filtering.
All speculation but some places to start.
So in other words, a new design! ;D
To a point :) not saying the wheel needs reinventing though.
Quote from: madbean on June 15, 2014, 09:34:43 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on June 15, 2014, 05:19:23 PM
What might be sensible is a limiter at the input, if the signal can't even get over 25mV then the BBDs wont distort, especially with a compander lending a hand too, setting the compander alone too heavy on the compression would cause issues.
Clever! Twin diodes to ground might do the trick here. I will check that out on my build. It might be preferable to a large series resistance.
The trick used in many flangers in the feedback loop of an opamp :) there the 'distortion' added by the clipping is a benefit to that jetty flange sound we love, it's probably an improvement over nasty clipping in a delay but still not ideal.
I was thinking more a long the lines of a compressor at the input stage, something like this - (http://www.electroschematics.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/limiter-compressor-schematic.gif)
It's not ideal but with some high Q filters, a balance should be possible to get a decent sound.
I'm looking over the MN3205 datasheets as we speak... the specs were worse than I remembered! But these steps will help.
Edit: If you're going to use diodes I don't think 1N4148 are going to cut it, the THD by the time that signal level is reached is... well not pretty.
So, does this mean that using 4 mn3008s would yield an even better result than 2 mn3005s?
Quote from: jubal81 on June 16, 2014, 01:51:45 AM
So, does this mean that using 4 mn3008s would yield an even better result than 2 mn3005s?
In theory the answer should be yes. The other day Forrest and I where chatting about that... and the conclusion upon reviews of the older DMM with 2x MN3005 and those with a quad of MN3008, the 08 where more silent in their operating.
Note, i don't know shit, just saying this on top of my head. ::)
Quote from: jubal81 on June 16, 2014, 01:51:45 AM
So, does this mean that using 4 mn3008s would yield an even better result than 2 mn3005s?
It would depend on your definition of 'better' but potentially yes but also potentially no... to get the best you'd definitely want a scope, setting up 2 BBDs is much easier by ear than 4.
Quote from: GrindCustoms on June 16, 2014, 02:01:37 AM
Quote from: jubal81 on June 16, 2014, 01:51:45 AM
So, does this mean that using 4 mn3008s would yield an even better result than 2 mn3005s?
In theory the answer should be yes. The other day Forrest and I where chatting about that... and the conclusion upon reviews of the older DMM with 2x MN3005 and those with a quad of MN3008, the 08 where more silent in their operating.
Note, i don't know shit, just saying this on top of my head. ::)
Of course it's quieter, all the components are new in the new one, no value or bias drift, no dry caps, better tolerances, no internal transformer and modern opamps.
I've been kicking around the idea of getting some mn3005s for the new DB, but I'm thinking getting 4 genuine 3008s for a little less money from Smallbear might be the better way to go. Don't have a scope, but maybe I can rig up one of those free software scopes...
PT2399 and BBD are two totally different sounding beasts, not even comparable imo.
Just a note on the V vs MN thing. For BBD's I wouldn't touch the cool audio chips. Neither the MN's or the V's are clean, their not supposed to be really, but the V's don't sound "warm" they just sound noisy and distorted. This is my conclusion from ...extensive... testing of the madbean aquaboy. I spent weeks trying to get v3205's to sound good in this circuit, modding the circuit into oblivion, just couldn't get anything decent sounding from it. 6 months later decided to try some mn3008's. 10 mins of adjustments and bang! Awesome sounding delay.
That's been the whole point of the thread, i'm saying the Aquaboy etc boards aren't designed for the v3205, modding or not, so a delay designed specifically for them, might have a bit of a better chance.
And they're "not supposed to be really"? Of course they are, or else what was the MN3305, an exercise in terrible sound? :D
Also, where did you source your v3205 and when? Smallbear has mentioned he had to send his most recent batch of them back as they were biasing too hot so just distorted.
Oh I see scruffie. Sorry I must admit I didn't read all the pages. My V3205's were from a couple of years ago, ebay fairly certain. They worked. Just didn't sound good at all. Distorted. But not in a good way. Hissy sort of distortion, like something was broken. A layout specifically designed for a v3205 (that actually sounded good) would be an awesome idea, we could finally look away from the mn3005.
Paul
Quote from: Scruffie on June 16, 2014, 03:33:09 AM
That's been the whole point of the thread, i'm saying the Aquaboy etc boards aren't designed for the v3205, modding or not, so a delay designed specifically for them, might have a bit of a better chance.
I still think this is a really good idea. Builders want analog delays they can make without having to source unobtanium chips. Players want analog delays that sound good and don't cost them an arm and a leg. I really think the community would get behind you if you designed a delay around the V3205s.
Recently I asked the other engineers at my studio if there were any pedals they wanted me to build to have around. The top response from everyone was a DMM, or other analog delay. After a conversation about the difficulty of sourcing MNs, they decided to put the delay idea on hold. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's run into this kind of thing. A good-sounding new circuit that uses current production chips would go a long way towards alleviating the problem.
Quote from: lincolnic on June 16, 2014, 05:10:49 AM
Quote from: Scruffie on June 16, 2014, 03:33:09 AM
That's been the whole point of the thread, i'm saying the Aquaboy etc boards aren't designed for the v3205, modding or not, so a delay designed specifically for them, might have a bit of a better chance.
I still think this is a really good idea. Builders want analog delays they can make without having to source unobtanium chips. Players want analog delays that sound good and don't cost them an arm and a leg. I really think the community would get behind you if you designed a delay around the V3205s.
Recently I asked the other engineers at my studio if there were any pedals they wanted me to build to have around. The top response from everyone was a DMM, or other analog delay. After a conversation about the difficulty of sourcing MNs, they decided to put the delay idea on hold. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's run into this kind of thing. A good-sounding new circuit that uses current production chips would go a long way towards alleviating the problem.
Challenge accepted :) i'll see what I can do.
Quote from: Scruffie on June 16, 2014, 07:54:57 PM
Quote from: lincolnic on June 16, 2014, 05:10:49 AM
Quote from: Scruffie on June 16, 2014, 03:33:09 AM
That's been the whole point of the thread, i'm saying the Aquaboy etc boards aren't designed for the v3205, modding or not, so a delay designed specifically for them, might have a bit of a better chance.
I still think this is a really good idea. Builders want analog delays they can make without having to source unobtanium chips. Players want analog delays that sound good and don't cost them an arm and a leg. I really think the community would get behind you if you designed a delay around the V3205s.
Recently I asked the other engineers at my studio if there were any pedals they wanted me to build to have around. The top response from everyone was a DMM, or other analog delay. After a conversation about the difficulty of sourcing MNs, they decided to put the delay idea on hold. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's run into this kind of thing. A good-sounding new circuit that uses current production chips would go a long way towards alleviating the problem.
Challenge accepted :) i'll see what I can do.
WIN! 8)
This might be a good idea to start... http://www.dicks-website.eu/limiter/NE572.pdf
Independent attack and release as opposed to the 570/571.
Quote from: Scruffie on June 16, 2014, 07:54:57 PM
Challenge accepted :) i'll see what I can do.
Awesome. I will definitely be watching with interest.
Quote from: culturejam on June 16, 2014, 08:56:44 PM
Quote from: Scruffie on June 16, 2014, 07:54:57 PM
Challenge accepted :) i'll see what I can do.
Awesome. I will definitely be watching with interest.
It will undoubtedly take some time as I have a lot of other design work that needs doing :) but i'll work on it when I can.
Well, I'll say it once more in case somebody ends up doing it:
What I'd most like to see is a 4x BL3208 project (the smaller chip), a la the EHX Memory Toy (and maybe the Carbon Copy has this as well, I can't recall). Doesn't need to be a clone of those or anything, but of all the analog delays I've played, my favorites have have four XX08 chips in them. I think that combo has the clearest (yet still warm and gritty) repeats.
I keep hearing that the Bellings were recently discontinued, but there are still a ton of them in inventory, and they should be relatively cheap and easy to get for the next couple years at least.
Okay, maybe nevermind on that idea. I see the BLs on ebay, but nobody else seems to have them. :(
Quote from: culturejam on June 17, 2014, 03:09:32 AM
Okay, maybe nevermind on that idea. I see the BLs on ebay, but nobody else seems to have them. :(
That was exactly the reason when I had this idea too combining it with SIP OpAmps, it quickly lost traction, the 3208 (V or BL) is actually a hair better in specs than the 3205 so either brand would be okay (other than adding to the cost with more chips).
Atm though, smallbear hasn't restocked in 6 months on the CoolAudio chips since the dodgy batch so even the v3205 delay might not end up being the best idea.
Quote from: Scruffie on June 16, 2014, 07:54:57 PM
Challenge accepted :) i'll see what I can do.
;D ;D
Quote from: Scruffie on June 17, 2014, 03:13:27 AM
Atm though, smallbear hasn't restocked in 6 months on the CoolAudio chips since the dodgy batch so even the v3205 delay might not end up being the best idea.
:-\
not sure if its been covered in this thread but a number of high end delays use the v3205 from cool audio
Notably, the EAR 4096 which everyone who hears one seems to enjoy.
Quote from: LaceSensor on June 17, 2014, 09:26:48 AM
not sure if its been covered in this thread but a number of high end delays use the v3205 from cool audio
Notably, the EAR 4096 which everyone who hears one seems to enjoy.
I'd wondered what that uses for a long time :)
Quote from: culturejam on June 17, 2014, 03:02:59 AM
Well, I'll say it once more in case somebody ends up doing it:
What I'd most like to see is a 4x BL3208 project (the smaller chip), a la the EHX Memory Toy (and maybe the Carbon Copy has this as well, I can't recall). Doesn't need to be a clone of those or anything, but of all the analog delays I've played, my favorites have have four XX08 chips in them. I think that combo has the clearest (yet still warm and gritty) repeats.
I've had this very thing going for a while...tap tempo even. I just need to get my act together and finish it.
I'd forgot about seeing that project on facebook, should be a nice deluxe memory boy killer :D
Quote from: madbean on June 17, 2014, 02:28:15 PM
Quote from: culturejam on June 17, 2014, 03:02:59 AM
Well, I'll say it once more in case somebody ends up doing it:
What I'd most like to see is a 4x BL3208 project (the smaller chip), a la the EHX Memory Toy (and maybe the Carbon Copy has this as well, I can't recall). Doesn't need to be a clone of those or anything, but of all the analog delays I've played, my favorites have have four XX08 chips in them. I think that combo has the clearest (yet still warm and gritty) repeats.
I've had this very thing going for a while...tap tempo even. I just need to get my act together and finish it.
Sweet mother! :o ;D
Quote from: Scruffie on June 17, 2014, 01:37:37 PM
Quote from: LaceSensor on June 17, 2014, 09:26:48 AM
not sure if its been covered in this thread but a number of high end delays use the v3205 from cool audio
Notably, the EAR 4096 which everyone who hears one seems to enjoy.
I'd wondered what that uses for a long time :)
I always wrongly assumed it was the real deal MN3005 or MN3205
I get the impression albeit I havent seen inside one, that the ToneCzar echoczar uses cool audio / belling.... yikes!
Quote from: LaceSensor on June 17, 2014, 03:53:19 PM
I get the impression albeit I havent seen inside one, that the ToneCzar echoczar uses cool audio / belling.... yikes!
Yep. BL3208a (smaller footprint). There were some build with MN3005, but those go for a good bit more than the paltry $800 for a regular one. ;)
a friend of mine has one, it seems nice but nothing so special to warrant $800
Spose they are more of a rarity than the Moogerfooger, the newest of which sells for $799 however
BL3208s are $5 at Mammoth and seem to sound really great in the Memory Toy.