A bit of a dilemma (well a good one anyway).
I've decided that I would like a combo amp with a nice Fender clean tone (nothing El 84 based either). Not too loud (around 20 watts max).
Giggable would be good (although this is getting rarer and rarer as the years go by) but I would mostly be playing at home.
It obviously has to work nicely with pedals ;)
I was stuck on a Fender Supersonic 22 for a while (in blonde); it covers all of my needs, and is the most 'sensible' choice (ie. relatively affordable, can be gigged, fx loop, second channel etc.). I've also tried one and I personally really liked it.
I also tried a princeton reverb reissue which was also lovely; the clean tone was absolutely fantastic (better than the supersonic IMO + also nice reverb and tremolo). They have also just released the Fudge brownie FSR version which looks fantastic IMO.
I then started looking into the boutique stuff, and the Swart and Tone King stuff really took my eye. Tone King Imperials are expensive, but I could stretch to one if needs be (I know Jon LOVES his), but the cost does kind of frighten me off. I would also have to travel a long way to try any of their stuff. The Swart is more Tweedy sounding by all accounts, and the look is what does it for me more than anything else (superficial I know ;D).
I've gone back to thinking the Supersonic 22 is the best and most sensible choice, but what do you guys think... Go with the sensible option that I know will cover a lot of bases, or plump for something a bit more esoteric that will do only one thing, but does it bloody well?
I often have that same dillema, but the lack of money is the best solution I've found!
I'm after the same sound you're talking about and have the same needs (I have and old Mesa Boogie MKIII that sounds really fendery, clean and nice but is loud as hell and weights a tone).
I love Princetones too, Supros, Magnatones and old clean Gibson amps (like the one the Swart is based on) they all sound awesome, but if you're searching for versatility and a good relationship with pedals, you should check the Brunetti Singleman, it is affordable and sounds really nice too although it can get a little meaner if you want.
I really want a Tone King as well, but there's not local dealers in my area, and it's too much scratch to buy unheard.
IMHO, the Traynor YCV20WR is probably a good fit for your needs. 20 watts, real Fender-y channels (both clean and lead), nice a sparkly at lower gain, throaty mids at higher gain, FX loop, great reverb tank, stock with a Celestion G12. Takes pedals really well. It is my goto amp for just about everything, though I am not as in love with the clean channel as I once was after I got my H&K Tubemeister or my MB Transatlantic.
What's not to like about it? Traynors have, in my experience, noisier transformers than a lot of other production amps. There's an audible hum from the OT on all four of my Traynors (not offensive or creating problems when you're playing, it's just always "there" if you know what I mean). Not an issue for live playing, you just notice it if you've got other amps you're AB ing against.
New they're about $700; used typically less than half of that, which makes them a ridiculous bargain (I think I picked mine up used for $280).
If you want to delve out of the Fender range a bit, I'd go for a Mesa Boogie Transatlantic. The Fender channel is good, the Vox channel is great.
I have the smallest Swart Space Tone (one 10-inch speaker). It's a nice amp and convenient to lug to small gigs but it's not my favorite pedal platform since the midrange characteristic is fixed to a very specific sound. Given the choice, I'd go with the Princeton.
I've got a Princeton Reverb Reissue and I love it. Beautiful, sparkling cleans and it takes pedals very well. The newer models have a reinforced speaker baffle and that's essential in my view (eliminates cab vibration noise at higher volumes). I replaced the stock output transformer with (no affiliation) Billm's "Low Profile TO20 Output Transformer (see http://billmaudio.com/wp/ (http://billmaudio.com/wp/)); that really tightened up the low end. I also replaced the speaker cable with something heavier gauge (noticeably tighter low end and brighter high end). Other than that it's stock. Great amp, easy to move.
http://www.brunetti.it/en/products-item.php?cid=123456789&pid=1252227764&ccid=1213709472 (http://www.brunetti.it/en/products-item.php?cid=123456789&pid=1252227764&ccid=1213709472)
I haven't played one myself yet, so it might be a bit tacky to recommend it, but one only hears great things about it. Affordable as well. This seems to be the kind of amp you're looking for. And me too, actually.
Custom made Princeton with 2x10 matching cab... Best amp in the world ever.
(http://juansolo.co.uk/misc/Guitars/twang1.jpg)
Quote from: GermanCdn on September 03, 2014, 04:43:29 PM
If you want to delve out of the Fender range a bit, I'd go for a Mesa Boogie Transatlantic. The Fender channel is good, the Vox channel is great.
Would you say this goes for both TA-15 and TA-30?
Quote from: Tremster on September 03, 2014, 05:50:18 PM
http://www.brunetti.it/en/products-item.php?cid=123456789&pid=1252227764&ccid=1213709472 (http://www.brunetti.it/en/products-item.php?cid=123456789&pid=1252227764&ccid=1213709472)
I haven't played one myself yet, so it might be a bit tacky to recommend it, but one only hears great things about it. Affordable as well. This seems to be the kind of amp you're looking for. And me too, actually.
+1
Have you thought about looking into a vintage Fender? There are deals to be had if you look around a bit.
There are some great boutique sounding options out there but many of them cost as much as a vintage amp. The newer amps are possibly a bit more reliable, but if this is for home, you may want to look at getting the real thing. I have a couple of vintage Fenders (vibrolux and super reverb) and they are a lot of fun.
I know you already know my opinion, but for the benefit of everyone else here:
The Tone King is the best clean Fender amp I've ever heard, and that includes pristine, well-cared for vintage examples of every single classic Fender (thanks to local studio Invisible Sound being a frigging museum) of every era. I think it's head and shoulders above a "real" blackface deluxe, for instance. I didn't buy mine on impulse, either. The first time I played through it, I basically said: Oh, this is the sound I've been trying to make. I spent some time playing around with things on my HRD to improve it and tried to get closer to that sound, played through other Fender amps including the Supersonic (right when it first came out) and DRRI, and aside from just not quite getting there on sound, they had other issues, like higher noise, duller treble, heavier cabinets, and uninspiring reverb.
It requires no modification, though I use a 12AY7 in V1 instead of a 12AX7 to make it a bit quieter. It's really quiet. The spring reverb is the best I've ever encountered.
The cabinet is also pretty extraordinary. It's not a typical cabinet for this kind of amp: It's larger and squarer, and the bass is probably as beefy as my Hot Rod Deluxe, which is a 6L6 amp. It has a speaker made custom for that amp in that cabinet.
And for good measure, it's got a second channel that can do tweed as well as a halfway convincing clean Marshall or Vox sound, but way better than the cleans on either of them.
I've gone to amp shows and played an absolute ton of amps, and to my ear, nothing else comes close.
When I decided to build an amp, it was vaguely modeled after the Imperial's lead channel. The only reason I built an amp at all is that I wanted something I could turn up until it distorted. Otherwise, I was a one-amp guy.
As far as the price versus a stock Fender: If you are careful and patient, you can pick one up in the $1600 range, at least here in the U.S. They go for around $1700 much more commonly. If you are really careful and patient ... mine was less than either of those. $500 isn't a small amount of money, but: Would you be 100% satisfied with the speaker in the Supersonic? If you aren't, that's another $150 maybe. If you buy it new, you will have to retube it to something reasonable, whereas the TK will be loaded with something good even when used. That's another $100. It weighs 28 pounds, which you'll appreciate if you want to take it out.
I am a total cheapskate for a lot of stuff, but the TK is one of those pieces of gear that I paid through the nose for and feel like I made out like a bandit.
I only have three pieces of gear that I would buy again without hesitation as soon as possible if they were lost or stolen: My Imperial, the El Capistan, and my Koa Larivee (which is, unfortunately, irreplaceable).
Everything everyone says is true, but don't forget that Raulduke is on the other side of the pond from you, so vintage Fenders and Traynors aren't that easy to find, and Tone King and Mesa etc. cost way more over here.
Quote from: pickdropper on September 03, 2014, 06:13:20 PM
Have you thought about looking into a vintage Fender? There are deals to be had if you look around a bit.
There are some great boutique sounding options out there but many of them cost as much as a vintage amp. The newer amps are possibly a bit more reliable, but if this is for home, you may want to look at getting the real thing. I have a couple of vintage Fenders (vibrolux and super reverb) and they are a lot of fun.
I don't know how it works in England, but they're really hard to find in Spain at least. I think that the vintage amp deal thing only applies in EEUU.
Thanks for the advice guys I really appreciate your thoughts.
I've seen the brunetti and specs look great but it looks a little ugly IMO.
I also notice none of you have recommended the super sonic which is interesting...
Vintage fenders are a no go in the uk unfortunately; not many are around, and the ones that are available are stupid money.
Don't see many traynors around the uk either (shame a I read great stuff about them)
I think splurging out for some toneking goodness may be a strong possibility...
Talk to Martin at MJW...
Quote from: juansolo on September 03, 2014, 06:46:12 PM
Talk to Martin at MJW...
How much was the princeton head if you don't mind me asking?
Quote from: raulduke on September 03, 2014, 06:39:02 PM
I've seen the brunetti and specs look great but it looks a little ugly IMO.
Well. It is. The head looks better:
http://www.brunetti.it/en/products-item.php?cid=123456789&pid=1371829057&ccid=123456789 (http://www.brunetti.it/en/products-item.php?cid=123456789&pid=1371829057&ccid=123456789)
Quote from: muddyfox on September 03, 2014, 05:53:02 PM
Quote from: GermanCdn on September 03, 2014, 04:43:29 PM
If you want to delve out of the Fender range a bit, I'd go for a Mesa Boogie Transatlantic. The Fender channel is good, the Vox channel is great.
Would you say this goes for both TA-15 and TA-30?
I've only got the TA-15, so I can't comment on the TA-30. I don't really think you need anymore headroom in the amp which you get from the TA-30. I would like an effects loop though, but I can live without it.
I wish MB would make a three channel version of the amp. I'd like there to be a Vox channel, a Fender channel (with at least two settings) and a high gain channel.
Quote from: GermanCdn on September 03, 2014, 07:43:45 PM
I wish MB would make a three channel version of the amp. I'd like there to be a Vox channel, a Fender channel (with at least two settings) and a high gain channel.
Haha: http://www.egnateramps.com/EgnaterProducts/Tweaker/TweakerHead/TweakerHead.html (http://www.egnateramps.com/EgnaterProducts/Tweaker/TweakerHead/TweakerHead.html)
Quote from: Tremster on September 03, 2014, 07:46:48 PM
Quote from: GermanCdn on September 03, 2014, 07:43:45 PM
I wish MB would make a three channel version of the amp. I'd like there to be a Vox channel, a Fender channel (with at least two settings) and a high gain channel.
Haha: http://www.egnateramps.com/EgnaterProducts/Tweaker/TweakerHead/TweakerHead.html (http://www.egnateramps.com/EgnaterProducts/Tweaker/TweakerHead/TweakerHead.html)
I have a Tweaker as well, the TransAtlantic is much better amplifier.
A buddy of mine has the TA-15. He has used it to simulate Vox amps on recordings and it's done a great job. I don't think the Fender settings are quite as close as the Vox, but it's a nice amp in that mode.
Quote from: pickdropper on September 03, 2014, 07:49:59 PM
A buddy of mine has the TA-15. He has used it to simulate Vox amps on recordings and it's done a great job. I don't think the Fender settings are quite as close as the Vox, but it's a nice amp in that mode.
This is kind of why I want a three channel version. The Fender side is shared with the Marshall/Boogie side, and those two both sound way better in high gain settings, and the Fender mode suffers. I also love the fact that you can set the power outputs differently for each channel (5/15/25W).
Yeah, I could see that.
I've thought about grabbing one of those. It's a nice versatile amp. My only hesitation is that I really only need it for the Vox settings as I have other amps that cover the rest of it. The size is hard to beat, though.
It sounds really close to the normal channel on my AC15 head (you can run it in AC15 or AC30 mode) and you can pull out the Cut knob to act as a Master Volume which is kind of nice. Now if they'd put an EF86 channel in..... (I know, I already own too many amps, why am I dreaming up more options).
The Boogie Channel sounds better than my DC5, though that's in large part due to the fact that I can control the volume on the TA. I'm sure the DC5 sounds better cranked (especially with the 5 band), but I just can't be in the same room as the DC5 with the Master past 4.
Ironically, I don't own a Marshall, but the Marshall mode sounds very similar to my buddy's 800.
If you can pick one up used, it's a good deal (not that they're overpriced new, but if you've already got 3/4 of the tones covered, dropping a grand on a TA or similar money on a Vox for Vox tones would indicate buying a Vox). Size wise they are perfect.
You are not the only one who likes the supersonic,
If I had to buy a new us voiced amp I will definetly buy the supersonic for two reasons.
First its a great amp on its own and second it goes well with every, I mean every pedal I tried.
I 've try many regular-non boutique amps, thanx to my buddy at big guitar shop here, and I
decide that for my taste and for my pedals there two amps only.
The British voiced koch studiotone and the Us voiced supersonic.
If you can try some koch amps you will not regret it.
Quote from: teknoman2 on September 03, 2014, 09:15:07 PM
You are not the only one who likes the supersonic,
If I had to buy a new us voiced amp I will definetly buy the supersonic for two reasons.
First its a great amp on its own and second it goes well with every, I mean every pedal I tried.
I 've try many regular-non boutique amps, thanx to my buddy at big guitar shop here, and I
decide that for my taste and for my pedals there two amps only.
The British voiced koch studiotone and the Us voiced supersonic.
If you can try some koch amps you will not regret it.
Koch amps are good, and they take pedals very well (I'm talking about the Studiotone family), but all my friends that have bought one of those searching for a basic clean sound with a fender signature on mind, have been disappointed (and I'm not talking about an isolated case: Alberto Barrero, a great guitarist from Spain, recently sold his because of this, a friend of mine recently sold his Studiotone and bought a MB Lonestar for the same reason, and another friend prefers his MB Mark III over his Studiotone XL for gigging despite it's weight because it did not "fill the room").
Quote from: micromegas on September 03, 2014, 09:30:37 PM
Quote from: teknoman2 on September 03, 2014, 09:15:07 PM
You are not the only one who likes the supersonic,
If I had to buy a new us voiced amp I will definetly buy the supersonic for two reasons.
First its a great amp on its own and second it goes well with every, I mean every pedal I tried.
I 've try many regular-non boutique amps, thanx to my buddy at big guitar shop here, and I
decide that for my taste and for my pedals there two amps only.
The British voiced koch studiotone and the Us voiced supersonic.
If you can try some koch amps you will not regret it.
Koch amps are good, and they take pedals very well (I'm talking about the Studiotone family), but all my friends that have bought one of those searching for a basic clean sound with a fender signature on mind, have been disappointed (and I'm not talking about an isolated case: Alberto Barrero, a great guitarist from Spain, recently sold his because of this, a friend of mine recently sold his Studiotone and bought a MB Lonestar for the same reason, and another friend prefers his MB Mark III over his Studiotone XL for gigging despite it's weight because it did not "fill the room").
I know Alberto, he is a very talented player and he makes very good ytube review pedal videos.
As I said studiotone is a british voiced amp and I must agree clean channel is not their best kind trebly for my taste
but it has great features on the back panel and the pedal compatibility is one of the reason I bought it.
I use play mine though a 2 by 12 cabinet with v30 and the sound is killer, never had issues filling the room,speaking always for my taste.
Quote from: teknoman2 on September 03, 2014, 09:46:17 PM
I know Alberto, he is a very talented player and he makes very good ytube review pedal videos.
If you like how he plays, you should check the video he just posted playing with Eduardo Escobar. Both are awesome players!!
I don't want to hijack this thread, but here's the video for your enjoyement.
Alberto is using a Deluxe Reverb btw . And, based on the title, a Robin Trower od.
That fender princeton reverb combo in blonde looks like a winner to me. If you've already tried it, and like the tone, it looks like it fits all of your criteria.
Quote from: raulduke on September 03, 2014, 07:14:10 PM
Quote from: juansolo on September 03, 2014, 06:46:12 PM
Talk to Martin at MJW...
How much was the princeton head if you don't mind me asking?
Twas a bit complex how I paid for that one, I think it all worked out at around £900.
Oh and get it built with a pair of these if you take this route:
(http://juansolo.co.uk/misc/Guitars/twang2.jpg)
Best 6V6s ever!
You could always get him to build you a Tone King clone instead...
Quote from: lars on September 04, 2014, 05:31:44 AM
That fender princeton reverb combo in blonde looks like a winner to me. If you've already tried it, and like the tone, it looks like it fits all of your criteria.
Don't see why he couldn't do it as a 2x10 combo also, which will definitely help it when cranked over the 1x10 as that can get a little ragged. I can recommend the Eminence 1028K Legends with it when used as a pair (or more). The Ragin Cajun works well too. Another bonus of the combo is you could get a full sized 2 spring tank in it. Couldn't do it with the head as it would have been too close to the transformers, hence it's a 3 spring short.
Would definitely go for the Brimars in the combo though. The JJ 6V6s have a tendency to rattle, the Brimars don't.
Happy to cart the amp over to Cleggys (you've got a chance of turning it up there) if you fancy a trip up north to have a play. Indeed could bring a whole host of stuff over to play with. I have many toys ;) (just not a lot of amps, got the stereo set up though, but that's really low output).
Even though I love my Fender Twin Reverb to death and plan to be buried in it, I just don't find it a practical gigging amp. Not unless I get some roadies to haul it around because its quite a back breaker. For gigs I nowadays use a Fender Vibrolux. A good solid clean tube amp which because of its 2x10 speakers gives me that clean Fender sound that I crave, takes pedals very well, but is still portable enough not to ruin my back. And it can be feckin' loud too. I never have to turn it up past 2.
Hi guys.
Thanks again for your comments.
After further research, listening to clips etc, I think the Toneking Imperial is the one for me.
I'd be plumping for the (cheaper) PCB version (in black and white) as laying out an extra £500.00 for something built on turret board doesn't float my boat (or wallet) to be honest. I also already own an attenuator.
Juan: thanks for the heads up on MJW amps.
I'm considering them for an equivalent, or clone, to something else I've always wanted (Carmen Ghia). I would love to support a UK based manufacturer, but in this case I think the Toneking just wins out for me at the moment for my requirements.
No worries fella. Martin's a good lad, probably not far from you to be honest, and he makes great kit. Worth a chat with him if you change your mind.