This is a split off from the Braveheart Independence thread, in which I referenced US states seceding.
So which state or states could you see making a real go of secession? Let's ignore large problems like how to deal with division of military forces, etc. This is supposed to be fun.
I imagine that the New England states could stand alone. But doubly so if they included New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. The combined region has agriculture (and seafood), manufacturing, and plenty of urban centers. It also shares a border with Canada on one side (easy trade) and has full access to the Atlantic on the other.
I'd call it New Old-Stock England. ;D
What's your fantasy splinter nation? I have other ideas, but I don't want to hog all the good ones.
I wouldn't call it a fantasy splitter nation, but If they wanted to, I think Texas could likely stand alone.
Quote from: pickdropper on September 20, 2014, 02:19:02 PM
I wouldn't call it a fantasy splitter nation, but If they wanted to, I think Texas could likely stand alone.
It's part of my fantasy. ;D
From up here on the other side of the border it would appear Texas would love to stand alone.
dave
It's in the mixed section of German news sites every now and then about Texas or California trying to leave the US, or California/Silicon Valley splitting into sub-states or something.
I don't know how serious all this is though, as every nation, it seems, have their separatists.
Quote from: davent on September 20, 2014, 02:50:17 PM
From up here on the other side of the border it would appear Texas would love to stand alone.
I think there are a lot of people in Texas who love the idea of an independent Republic of Texas. On the other hand, Texans seem to also
love to talk about being American, so that would be quite a crisis of identity.
The two states the could probably do the best as independent countries would be Montana and Idaho -- they grow all the barley ;). Or maybe Washington because it grows all the hops. Speaking of which, I heard we may be in for an expensive beer year because the barley crop was damaged by too much rain.
I think if either New York or California (or worse both) seceded, that it would be the rest of the US that would have a hard time staying afloat.
Quote from: RobA on September 20, 2014, 04:20:46 PM
I think if either New York or California (or worse both) seceded, that it would be the rest of the US that would have a hard time staying afloat.
I think the rest of the US would still be okay. It's not like CA and NY would be able to function without trading with the US. Everybody would still get what they needed, it just might cost more.
Quote from: culturejam on September 20, 2014, 06:38:58 PM
Quote from: RobA on September 20, 2014, 04:20:46 PM
I think if either New York or California (or worse both) seceded, that it would be the rest of the US that would have a hard time staying afloat.
I think the rest of the US would still be okay. It's not like CA and NY would be able to function without trading with the US. Everybody would still get what they needed, it just might cost more.
I'd expect trading to be pretty open -- it's not like we actually make much of anything in the US anymore anyway. I was thinking of it more from the tax revenue angle. They'd definitely have to trade with the rest of us though, all the good beer comes from Colorado, Washington, and Oregon ;D.
Actually, CA would be totally screwed if they tried to leave. The water rights issues would be an incredible mess and they're in enough trouble that way already.
California alone is (or at least was recently) the 8th largest economy in the world. They grow a majority of the U.S.'s vegetables. They include two of the U.S.'s largest and/or most important industries. I don't see the water rights as an issue. It's cheaper to permit California water rights as an independent nation and import from them than deal with the fallout when no other state or region could reliably pick up the slack, though Americans as a whole have shown a desire to subsist with no vegetables in their diet.
Quote from: midwayfair on September 20, 2014, 07:38:40 PM
California alone is (or at least was recently) the 8th largest economy in the world. They grow a majority of the U.S.'s vegetables. They include two of the U.S.'s largest and/or most important industries. I don't see the water rights as an issue. It's cheaper to permit California water rights as an independent nation and import from them than deal with the fallout when no other state or region could reliably pick up the slack, though Americans as a whole have shown a desire to subsist with no vegetables in their diet.
California may be the source of the majority of the veggies grown in the US, but I don't see many of them in stores around here. Almost all the vegetables here are from Mexico. That aside, water rights issues are already a problem in the western US and the projections are for them to get much worse.
I understand your point though. It would definitely be a pretty dumb move for states in the US to withhold water from the new nation of California. The only problem with that is that a move being dumb doesn't seem to stop countries from pulling them on a regular basis.
Quote from: RobA on September 20, 2014, 08:05:56 PM
The only problem with that is that a move being dumb doesn't seem to stop countries from pulling them on a regular basis.
I've found that *counties* are capable of staggeringly dumb moves that make *countries* look like amateurs. ;D
Quote from: culturejam on September 20, 2014, 08:08:10 PM
Quote from: RobA on September 20, 2014, 08:05:56 PM
The only problem with that is that a move being dumb doesn't seem to stop countries from pulling them on a regular basis.
I've found that *counties* are capable of staggeringly dumb moves that make *countries* look like amateurs. ;D
There's that too. At least with counties it's easier to move to a new one if the one you are in is really bad. We did have a county that "seceded" from a couple of the other counties here. I'm not sure how that's working out for them. I haven't really been following it since the whole thing went down. We've also had a group of counties repeatedly threaten to secede from the state and form the new state of North Colorado. I haven't heard anything from them lately. Maybe they've figured out that it might be a bit tough to get the rest of the states to agree to admit a 51st.
Quote from: RobA on September 20, 2014, 04:20:46 PM
I think if either New York or California (or worse both) seceded, that it would be the rest of the US that would have a hard time staying afloat.
The problem with New York seceding is that the
city of New York is so very different from upstate that we'd probably have a civil war within a year of independence.
Having said that, as a native Brooklynite, I'm pretty sure NYC could secede from the mainland and do just fine. ;D
Quote from: lincolnic on September 21, 2014, 03:27:59 AM
Quote from: RobA on September 20, 2014, 04:20:46 PM
I think if either New York or California (or worse both) seceded, that it would be the rest of the US that would have a hard time staying afloat.
The problem with New York seceding is that the city of New York is so very different from upstate that we'd probably have a civil war within a year of independence.
Having said that, as a native Brooklynite, I'm pretty sure NYC could secede from the mainland and do just fine. ;D
:
I'm not sure there would be a war. The upstate already wants to get rid of the city. There would only be a war if the city tried to claim the reservoirs located upstate. As a native upstater we just aren't fond of the the changes we have had to make because of the city. The farmers have to divert livestock from streams and rivers these animals have been traversing and drinking from for years because they flow into the reservoirs for the city. I mean there is a Hipster all organic restaurant in one of the towns by me that I have never seen a local go into and if they did they couldn't afford it. Honestly why would I go there when I could drive less than a mile further and buy farm fresh beef, cheese, raw milk, and the best sweet corn in the state. The city would have to import everything, even if rooftop farms were implemented on every building and you could find a miracle filter system to cleans the Hudson to a drinkable standard. Plus the upstate has all the good breweries: Southern Tier, Ommegang, Butternuts, Roscoe, Saranac and more I have yet to find. I'm just hoping the upstate can snag the Rangers and move them to Albany.;) You can keep the Yankees, Mets, Jets, Giants, and Islanders. And the Red Bulls I mean really professional American soccer? All the players are imports anyway.::)
Btw I mean no offence by this post. I have been drinking and am disgusted by the current state of NY and politics in general.
Richard
Washington and Colorado, the union's first accidental secession. Wha...???
Quote from: lars on September 21, 2014, 05:53:34 AM
Washington and Colorado, the union's first accidental secession. Wha...???
Nah only the first with sensible drug laws. O0
Richard
I am from western ny, and we would be happy to be rid of New York City. I live 30 minutes from southern tier, so that is nice too.
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I think if all of the states could secede from D.C. we'd be better off for awhile. At least until the new crop of crooks took over the new capitol. Then we secede again. And so on until we are all stuffed into a small area like Rhode Island and the rest of the country is a corrupt cesspool ;D
I'd be all about southern secession if the new country wasn't going to be run by southerners ;D I'm a southerner and love the south but our history of running anything other than a sports team well isn't so great. There's still a little too much 'old south' mentality hanging around the people who actually run things here for them to be trusted with a state much less a country. We've already allowed ourselves to be the third world of the U.S. while still having to obey federal standards. If you throw those out the window we would quickly be the China of North America.
Free Cascadia. Oregon/Washington/British Columbia as one independent region - one of the only regions to still be sort of habitable (probably) after acute climate change - if the so called "big one" earthquake we are due for doesn't take us out first.
Strategy
Quote from: Strategy on September 21, 2014, 05:23:17 PM
Free Cascadia. Oregon/Washington/British Columbia as one independent region - one of the only regions to still be sort of habitable (probably) after acute climate change - if the so called "big one" earthquake we are due for doesn't take us out first.
Strategy
Or your ring of active Volcanos. I loved living in Seattle, but I was always a tiny bit nervous when I'd look up at one of those peaks.
Gotta represent the Midwest here (yes there actually is some life thriving between the 2 coasts).
We are a resilient people battle-hardened by epidemic morbid obesity, tornados, and uncontrollable Walmart consumerism. You have no idea what we've been through ;)
Quote from: Strategy on September 21, 2014, 05:23:17 PM
Free Cascadia. Oregon/Washington/British Columbia as one independent region - one of the only regions to still be sort of habitable (probably) after acute climate change - if the so called "big one" earthquake we are due for doesn't take us out first.
I am all for this (especially if the Big One levels the space needle), though we'd immediately have our own East vs West secession crisis.
I say Hawaii needs to secede....after I retire there. Then I'm good. The rest of the states and Feds can kiss my ass 8)
the original louisiana before it was split up. they'd have a bunch of farmland, timber and the mouth of the mississippi.
I hope Texas secedes, so I finally have a good reason to leave this stank @#$ black hole of a state. Just my opinion.
There is the East Coast Electrical Grid, which goes up into Canada I think, the West Coast Grid and then there is one state that has their own....TEXAS! YEEE HAAA!
Quote from: pryde on September 22, 2014, 03:49:38 AM
Gotta represent the Midwest here (yes there actually is some life thriving between the 2 coasts).
We are a resilient people battle-hardened by epidemic morbid obesity, tornados, and uncontrollable Walmart consumerism. You have no idea what we've been through ;)
That is some funny stuff..LOL