I know this is probably close to blasphemy but does anybody have any experience with a multi-effect? Boss GT-100, Line 6 HD-500, I think Zoom has the GT-5 etc.
The context is playing in a worship band. I know the individual boxes are better but I'm thinking of ease of setup. Being able to store individual settings for songs. Maybe running straight into the board. I think the better ones have an external loop I could put pedals in.
What do you guys think?
BURN THE HERETIC!
HE TURNED ME INTO A NEWT!
billstein what about the line6 m9? It's small and should cover all of your needs. Still has a place on pedalboards of various pros. Should be therefore a short term and a long term solution all together. Hm?
Ease of setup is just as good an argument as analog circuitry/tube mojo. Life is always about making trade offs, there is no having your cake and eating it. And if you value ease of setup above all else, then something else has to give. I'm pretty sure that unless your audience consists solely of guitarists 99% of them won't notice the difference.
For me, I prefer an analog pedalboard over my Line 6 PodXT Live and HD500. But not so much because I think analog is better, but more because I find twiddling analog knobs to be easier then tweaking digital presets. Once its perfectly dialed in the preset sounds just as good. The bitch for me at least is in getting there.
In one of my silliest moments of my life I bought a Boss GT 10 out of curiousity...
.... man was I glad that I could sell it quickly again without too much loss in money while they were still relativly new to the market.
I couldn't get anywhere near good sounds out of it, it really sucked compared to analog IMO. Analog pedals hands down winner.
I bought a Boss GT-70(?) last year and played it for a couple months before selling it. It did some really great stuff. There were some fantastic delays, and you could stack a couple of them. That was interesting. But everything else that it did well was useless to me. I bought the wrong unit. I'll keep looking for something I can use, but I wouldnt ever buy one that wasn't exactly what I need. Narrow down your needs first and then search for a unit that fits. I know someone who is doing the same thing. He started with an amp and moderate pedal board. Sold some pedals and bought a Pod. Not sure which one. Runs it into the board and it sounds fine for what he does. Has since gone back and bought just what he needs for pedals to add to it. I think a Soul Food and a big muff and I think a reverb. It's not to much to carry. It all fits on a smallish board and it's very easy to setup. Good luck on your search. I hope that helps.
Quote from: juansolo on February 22, 2015, 06:20:26 PM
BURN THE HERETIC!
ROTFLMAOOO!!
fella, you ain't right.... ;{D
I think Bill, you need to just build an all in one effect in a big enclosure. Comp, drive, delay, reverb, and go.
Jacob
Quote from: jkokura on February 22, 2015, 07:42:32 PM
I think Bill, you need to just build an all in one effect in a big enclosure. Comp, drive, delay, reverb, and go.
Jacob
+1 you can do that, including the pedal box for a TON less! check out http://www.roadcasesusa.com/pop-up-and-tilt-pedal-board-in-1-4-ply-ata-case-unique-24-inch/
you'll also want https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXQ52iR8TQE stompsers are awesome, and inexpensive. I think I paid about 7 bucks a pack, and there's enough to do five pedals, or more if you don't use all four corners.
LT
Quote from: TreeSlayer on February 22, 2015, 08:01:31 PM
+1 you can do that, including the pedal box for a TON less! check out http://www.roadcasesusa.com/pop-up-and-tilt-pedal-board-in-1-4-ply-ata-case-unique-24-inch/
you'll also want https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXQ52iR8TQE stompsers are awesome, and inexpensive. I think I paid about 7 bucks a pack, and there's enough to do five pedals, or more if you don't use all four corners.
LT
Aren't those bicycle chain links?
dave
Quote from: davent on February 22, 2015, 08:14:07 PM
Quote from: TreeSlayer on February 22, 2015, 08:01:31 PM
+1 you can do that, including the pedal box for a TON less! check out http://www.roadcasesusa.com/pop-up-and-tilt-pedal-board-in-1-4-ply-ata-case-unique-24-inch/
you'll also want https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXQ52iR8TQE stompsers are awesome, and inexpensive. I think I paid about 7 bucks a pack, and there's enough to do five pedals, or more if you don't use all four corners.
LT
Aren't those bicycle chain links?
dave
pretty much. there's also longer box screws, spacers and wood screws. the hole diameter on a #40 chain is .156, whereas the link on the stompster is .125 . I don't think it would matter in that respect. the only problem with chain is the plates are .060 thick on a #40, whereas the other is .045 thick. also, the tensile strength of the chain would make it a lot harder to bend at a right angle for boxes that are screwed in from the side (ie, a voodoo pedal power supply). and at a cost of about 12-16 bucks a foot, and about 10-12 bucks for a chain breaker, well you get the idea.
LT
Quote from: Cortexturizer on February 22, 2015, 06:24:13 PM
billstein what about the line6 m9? It's small and should cover all of your needs. Still has a place on pedalboards of various pros. Should be therefore a short term and a long term solution all together. Hm?
+1
I have it on mine big board and it covers a lot of of my needs. It is "cheap" and works great.. You want regret it.
Quote from: juansolo on February 22, 2015, 06:20:26 PM
BURN THE HERETIC!
Hahaha... I knew I'd get flamed but I didn't know the danger was literal. I have in my mind a Frankenstein movie with all the Madbeaners coming toward my house with pitchforks and lanterns.
Here's what I was thinking might be helpful. I know the high end multis have an effects loop that you can place anywhere in the chain. So I could add those pedals I've built and love and turn them on with a preset. So the Klone, BMP etc. could still be used while using digital delays, tap tempo, volume pedal, wahs etc. from the multi.
Besides the death threats. I appreciate the help. :)
Nothing is impossible. There are always solutions to be found. This is the truth and majesty of DIY.
You mention going straight into the board. Are you looking for something with amp sims are just straight effects?
The other day,the idea of buying a Tech 21 FlyRig crossed my mind. Then I thought: it can be done with a good amp simulator , some FV-1 based delay and my favourite OD. And I can even add more features!!
Now I only have to learn how to work with the FV-1....
The FlyRig sounds great though.
ROTFLMAOOOOO!!!!!!
you knew it was coming!
I love the Frankenstein analogy! :{D
Layton
I have a Digitech RP1000 which is quite versatile. Has built in effects, amp models, a volume/wah/expression pedal, and a balanced output to go directly to a mixer/PA. On top of that, you can add you own homebuilt analog effects in an effects loop, so you can have the best of both worlds! :). I find it great for recording and practice. However, for live gigs it is becoming more than I need and I am trying now to move towards an simple, small analog pedal board.
http://atomicamps.com/amplifire-pedal/
Or maybe if you can wait a bit:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/96382-im-just-going-leave-here.html
The fly rig looks really cool. It seems almost perfect for what you'd need at church, and not super expensive. Those guys make nice stuff.
I have a sansamp bass DI that sounded fantastic on some recordings I did back in the day. Nothing more amusing than showing up with a Steinberger bass, a cord, and that little box. Gotta try to find it now...
Quote from: RobA on February 22, 2015, 10:05:17 PM
You mention going straight into the board. Are you looking for something with amp sims are just straight effects?
I think the amp sims would be nice.
Here's the reason I started thinking this way. We played a song today in church where the original guitarist seems to use 3-4 different effects and settings during the song. He goes from distorted to clean with octave to wah to... With my pedal board as it is right now, I would be tap dancing so hard I'd probably throw a hip out.
Since I've never used a multieffect I thought I'd throw it out to see the experiences of those who have.
The bass player this morning was at NAMM this year and said that Line6 was bringing out a new multi that looks nice. The Firehawk.
If tap dancing is the problem, then I would recommend you to build a good effect switcher/looper.
It is the cheapest alternative and you'll still have access to the sound you get with your pedals.
If you don't want to build it, there are plenty comercial alternatives too (*blasphemy :P)
Quote from: micromegas on February 23, 2015, 08:55:12 AM
If tap dancing is the problem, then I would recommend you to build a good effect switcher/looper.
It is the cheapest alternative and you'll still have access to the sound you get with your pedals.
If you don't want to build it, there are plenty comercial alternatives too (*blasphemy :P)
That still involves tapdancing, just localized on a single controller instead of the whole pedal board. The beauty with these multi FX is that they can be one stomp, completely different sounds. Unless you get into the big commercial loopers. Which cost as much as a multi-FX unit anyway.
Burn me as a heretic but I don't get the obsession with 'you must get DIY stuff or pedals at all costs!' If you're one of those guys who absofragginlutely has to twiddle a lot of knobs on the fly, go for pedals. If you want to quickly change all your sounds with one stomp, get (or build) a looper with presets. If you quickly want to change all your sounds with one stomp and
it has to sound exactly the same every time all the time, get a multi FX. Whatever works best to satisfy your needs, even if that means getting something that is not DIY or non-analog. And as I said, unless your audience consists solely of guitarists, which you probably would want to avoid at all cost anyway ;), 99.99% of the audience members will never hear the difference between cheap ass Behringer, expensive bootweek, proud homemade DIY or Line 6 digital.
Quote from: Muadzin on February 23, 2015, 01:42:49 PM
And as I said, unless your audience consists solely of guitarists, which you probably would want to avoid at all cost anyway ;), 99.99% of the audience members will never hear the difference between cheap ass Behringer, expensive bootweek, proud homemade DIY or Line 6 digital.
I totally agree with you on this.
Most of my guitar friends have moved from pedalboards and tube amps to Kempers and Fractal Audio racks and they sound almost the same live (those are expensive things though).
As I said before, I've been thinking about getting a Tech21 Fly Rig just for simplicity's sake. I love pedals and building them and the palette of sounds you can get out of them, but sometimes you just have to go simple and find whatever fullfils your needs.
The blasphemy thing was a joke, I still have an Eventide Timefactor on my pedalboard that I'm not goint to get rid of anytime soon.
Post #1000 btw!
Some people like the Line 6 stuff... most people like the axe fx .... I can't see how you'd go wrong with an Axe FX II & their Midi controller. I'll probably get something like that someday.
I would LOVE to get me an Axe FX one day. I love playing with pedals, I'm a knob tweaker at heart, I love building them and pedals forever as far as rehearsals, recording and the odd gig is concerned. For touring however I'd get me the Axe and its controller. I'd probably have to unload some gear to be able to afford it. Anyone interested in a 90's Gibson Explorer and Fender Strat?
I have two H9's and I play in a similar setting as you.... Currently using a DMC-8D to control the presets, but working on my own midi controller with a form factor I like.
Having presets is a good argument for a multi IF you truly and genuinely love the sounds that are available. If you don't love the sounds, you will eventually move on and will have wasted money. I use digital delay mainly because of presets. I agree that getting a multi with a loop is essential. And please no digital dirt. Keep that part analog.
Quote from: Leevibe on February 23, 2015, 04:12:17 PM
And please no digital dirt. Keep that part analog.
I agree. From what I've heard in some demos yesterday, it seems the multi can do heavy distortion well, but I haven't heard anything that compares with those sweet crunch sounds I get from the boxes I've built. That's why I wouldn't purchase anything that didn't have an effects loop that I could assign to anywhere I want in the chain. Turning that on and off is just a part of the preset.
Quote from: micromegas on February 23, 2015, 08:55:12 AM
If tap dancing is the problem, then I would recommend you to build a good effect switcher/looper.
It is the cheapest alternative and you'll still have access to the sound you get with your pedals.
If you don't want to build it, there are plenty comercial alternatives too (*blasphemy :P)
Re tap dancing, you can build a BYOC Super8 programmable looper for less than $200. Not as versatile/feature-laden as the musicomlab or RJM units (which do midi, etc.), but great for just switching any combination of the 8 loops with just one stomp.
The JMK/TH_Custom Programmable Looper is also an option.
Jacob
(putting on my aluminum foil suit and pretending I don't DIY)
I always found the Vox Valvetronix multi unit to be a pretty good sounding little unit, bunch of decent amp and pedal sims, expression pedal, etc. And it was dirt cheap. Only thing I didn't like about it was it's convoluted stomping arrangement, which I'm pretty sure you can MIDI around.
(taking off aluminum foil suit)
PREPARE THE STAKE! HE'S A WITCH!
Quote from: GermanCdn on February 23, 2015, 09:33:06 PM
(putting on my aluminum foil suit and pretending I don't DIY)
I always found the Vox Valvetronix multi unit to be a pretty good sounding little unit, bunch of decent amp and pedal sims, expression pedal, etc. And it was dirt cheap. Only thing I didn't like about it was it's convoluted stomping arrangement, which I'm pretty sure you can MIDI around.
(taking off aluminum foil suit)
PREPARE THE STAKE! HE'S A WITCH!
I agree completely. The best thing about them for me was that they have the least impact on the dynamics of my playing of any of the sims I've played with. The worst thing was the way I'd have to handle the switching on it. I did have one of the smaller units where this issue is worse, but I figured that the only way to handle switching of effects and stuff would be to program in a sequence of presets that would go through an entire performance.
They aren't perfect by any measure, but they are usable and convenient and pretty cheap.
Multi effects units are something we've probably all tried, and all been disappointed in. One interesting option i remember years ago was the Johnson jm150 millenium combo amp. I recall the effects being pretty spot on and sounding great, so you got a great amp and multi effect unit all in one package. I could have picked up a used one for $299 several years ago, and have kicked myself ever since. They dont go for that low anymore...
Personally the only things that multi-FX have let me down in was that my Pod XT live can only do a limited number of FX in series and my Pod HD 500, which on paper can do up to 8, is prone to running out of DSP crunching power with a lot of the FX I would have liked to use in series. The quality of the modeled FX and amps however, that I had no problems with.